Once a cheater always a cheater?
Find a Conversation
Once a cheater always a cheater?
| Sun, 01-04-2004 - 11:25pm |
I've been reading all these discussions and its been comforting to see that I am not alone out there. My heart goes out to everyone that is in this situation. I wish I never was involved, but now that I am here, I can't stop the other relationship. I am married and having an affair with a married man that I work with. We've been seeing each other for about 6 months. I don't get jealous about his wife. What unnerves me, is that he had an affair (for years), with someone he works in the same department with (basically just the two of them). They are always together because of work (they are actually business partners). He assured me that it was over with her, and I was way off base being jealous, but it still gets me. So not only are we hiding this from our spouses, but this other co-worker as well. When I call him and he doesn't call back, I think that he is with her. I'm getting kinda obsessive about the whole thing, but don't want to bring it up again...for fear of upsetting and losing him. He is also about 18 years older than I am, as is his other co-worker. I am crazy about him...we see each other about once a week, and email about 3-5 times a week, besides seeing him at meetings. I hate the way I feel when I am not with him, but of course, love every minute together. Am I being over-reactive about this other person? I know I have no rights or expectations regarding his family, but what about this? Oh...and for Christmas, she got him, pajamas! He was actually surprised that I got upset.

Pages
wake up and smell the coffee! is what i want to say to some of the young posters, but i try to temper my sarcastic, sharp advice with more palatable words so i don't flame anyone (or get flamed back!!).
gurl
I believe that in As one thing that both treasure is the honesty ... not necessarily about actions or what one does, but honesty about how one feels, their emotions, the inner person which you can't discuss w/ your spouse. That's what draws those in EMAs closer together, to bond on an emotional level. In EMAs (most of them) there is a high level of emotional bonding which makes it hard to give up.
As Free says, remember what this is and keep your head about it and not have these expectations that will only set one up for heartache. We only have control over ourselves. I don't feel that I have the right to make demands or on this or that on my MM as I am not his W. I can say what I will and will not accept for me. EMAs are so different than any other R and we have to remember what they are and enjoy it for what it is for the moment in our lives it is there bc it will end one day and when it does we want to walk away intact and with dignity with good memories of what it was.
Just my 2 cents.
Luvin
Gurl, I never said "most" people are in EA's for the deception. I said "many" people are. Friend summed it up best by mentioning the whole taboo, forbidden fruit aspect of the affair...that is what I meant by deception. I don't have any hard statistics or anything like that of how many people find the forbidden fruit aspect of an affair a major PART of the allure, but I am willing to bet that it is a significant number. Heck, I consider 25% of anything pretty significant. But I think far more than 25% of the people in EA's enjoy the "forbidden fruit" as a major factor.
You are right, no one is totally 100% honest with the people in their lives. We all tell little white lies whether to avoid conflict at work, to embellish an otherwise boring story, fib about eating the last peice of cake or whatever. I don't even really consider those things deception in the whole scheme of things. Yes, yes, if you want to split hairs, those little things can be technically defined as deception. But I am talking about the whole living two lives, not keeping vows or promises, letting someone believe they are the only one, etc. as deception. That is why so "many", no, "MOST" EA's and A's end when they are discovered! Part of the excitement that made the EA what is was (a secret and taboo) is now gone. As Free laid it all out for us in another post (I think it was Free) the majority of unions that started out as EA's or A's don't last when the primary relationships end (i.e marriages and unions split up). Sure one can say that the obvious reason why those unions don't last is because the MM or MW now has to try save his/her marriage after they have been caught. That may be true, but in many cases, the marriage is unsalvageable and the SO ends up leaving (eventually) or things are so miserable that the betraying spouse/partner ends up leaving. Then the two people involved in the A can be free for each other and don't have to hide it anymore because what is done is done. But then their relationship never seems to last. Sure a few couples may be an item for a while, and a far less percentage may even get married. But those unions rarely last. I can't remember the actual statistic, but it is like 2% or something...NOT a significant number. What actually happens is many of the "cheaters" (for lack of a better word) "move on" to other relationships and probably look forward to cheat again. Now, I'm guessing that SOME people even hook up with previous people they cheated with in the past, once they are involved in another relationship, because now they can create that whole forbidden fruit feeling again. Of course they will think it is because they have this wonderful chemistry and all, and they probably do to a degree. I just think they are more hooked on the excitement of it all. IMO
I am sure many of you are not looking to marry the MM/OM. But IF your relationship with your H/BF/SO were to end upon discovery of your A, would you want to continue to have an R with the OM? Why or why not? My guess is that many would say yes. But would that relationship last? I think that would be a big NO. Luvin, you also happened to sum that up pretty well on your last post too.
I luv u all !!!!!!!!!!!!
Damn...not only advise im getting fm these discussions...
...im grasping wisdom !
TOW
As for 'Once a cheater, always a cheater?' I don't think that's necessarily true. This is the first A I ever had, if it ended with MM I seriously don't think I would enter into another. I would wait to see what happened with my M and take it from there.
MM also said this was his first A, and if he didn't see me, he wouldn't be looking for a replacement.
I tend to believe him, he is a respectable man except for having the A with me I guess.
Dusty
This is turning into a nice exchange of ideas,I got to love it.
I think there is some truth to the Ideas Pen is advanceing, the thrill of getting away with it makeing the planes to be together the secracy of it all gets people hook and couses all sorts of fight or flight chemical respones in the body giveing you the emotional high and when things get exposed in such a way that the A can not be continued in the dark so to speak it couses the body and mind to settle down the thrills and the high stop and oh about 5 years later you wonder what you ever liked about the AP.
I think it may be different for older persons who may not be subject so much to thrills and body chemistry because lets face the old bod is't what it once was, and enter the R for different reasons.
JUST A THOUGHT.
FREE
I don't necessarily think once a cheat always a cheat. It depends on the individuals. Some people do it once, and after reflecting over it, make a decision they will not do it again. While others feel like cheating is the way to go, they have no regrets, would do it again, got away with it once, etc. The people that fall into the category just mentioned will, more than likely, probably cheat again. After hearing the specifics of the person who made the original post to this thread, I think she should be skeptical about what the MM said to her. This is a man who is not new to the whole having affairs thing and he is older, thus having more experience in manipulating someone much younger. I am not saying that this person is manipulating or being dishonest to Cheatingheartache, but the likelyhood is high. He is, after all, a twice (or more) decorated member of the cheating hearts club ;0)
As for your relationship with MM, of course he did not like the idea of you dating other people if your R ended . I've deducted that many people, who get involved in EA's and A's, don't like the thought of any of their partners (spouse/OM/OW/BF/GF)getting with someone other than them, to the point of denying that their partner could/would get involved with someone other than them. It is funny because the one involved in the affair has done it or is doing it, but somehow thinks their SO is totally incapable of doing it! I bet if you asked MM about the simple posibility of his W having an A, he'd frown at the thought or would be like, "I don't think that would/could ever happen". We are all familiar with the term cake people, meaning having one's cake and eating it too. But I'd like to add...having your cake and not wanting your H/W/SO to have any cake that might be available, or keeping cake all to yourself. From my own personal observations from people I've know, those involved in A's/EA's don't seem too open to the idea of open relationships. They will say that such a suggestion would just crush their spouse or SO. But I gotta tell you, I think that is just part of the story. I think the other part of the story is that the person involed in the A does not want to entertain the thought of their SO getting in on some action too (be it emotional and/or physical relationships with others). And once again, if it is an open relationship, where is the thrill of the secrecy that I believe so many enjoy in A's.
The MM in your life may be sincere in saying he would not find a replacement if his A with you ended. That more than likely means he will work on his marriage and be totally devoted to his wife. Otherwise, if your A ends but he likes the thrill of cheating , I would not be surprised if he found another lover. People involved in EA's and A's are experts in telling others (spouse/SO/OM/OW) what they want them to hear, ie "Wife darling, there is no one but you" "Other woman, you complete me. I would never be with anyone else in this way". Having this ability is, in part, what makes A's possible in the first place.
Then, there are those who may have a spouse, or SO who is more or less indifferent about the A, for whatever reason. That would be a different post altogehter. (Free you eloquently spoke on this in another message).
Free, I agree with you that older people may get involved in A's for different reasons than those who are younger. But I still think they crave the excitement of it all. Also, for some, I think the likelihood is high that it is an ego bost for the older people as well.
Pen
Dusty
It just got too much to bear-my emotions way out of check. All I did was think of him, and pretty much lived for his notes, emails, phone calls, glances at meetings, and of course, the time together.
On Monday, he had cancelled his plans for dinner with me because his biz partner had made him dinner (it was her first day back into town) and he couldn't find a way to get out of it (they have mutual friends so he can't make anything up). He asked if he could call me afterwords because he knew I was pissed. I said I didn't care if he called ever. So anyway, an hour later, he arrives at my house. He obviously ate fast (which he had promised to), and by the way, I never told him where I lived...he got the info somehow-probably work (H was out of town).
We drank wine and talked, I got over it, and I ended up back at his house. The thing was, I realized how out of control I was with the emotions, especially how sad I got when he cancelled dinner. I realized-I had fallen in love. I went overboard. Plus, it was getting too hard, too manipulative, too scheming.
We made plans to meet the next day, but without all the drama.
So he called Tuesday after work, and invited me over for dinner. We had a fabulous fabulous time talking, drinking wine, listening to music and sharing stories (like we use to)...just living in that moment. We both wished that moment could last forever.
So the talk turned to seeing each other again. He had talked about wanting to take a trip, maybe meeting in the mountains-pretty hard to pull off. But then we talked about maybe refraining...he suggested until March. I suggested, just refraining period.
If there was ever a time to end it, it was now-the end of a perfect night. That we needed to end it on a good note, so that we can look at each other and work together, and know we had something special. Leaving on a high note, we will look at the affair as something special and romantic-not spiteful and angry at the end (which with my emotions getting out of whack, it could have been). He held me, we both cried (I'd NEVER seen him display much emotion, especially cry-I was floored). This goodbye lasted three hours...no sex, just talking and holding each other. I realized how special it was to him too. All the stupid insecurites were just that. He told me he would never forget me. That he wouldn't want to...the time together was a special memory. We just hugged each other which seemed like forever. I didn't want to let go. He wished me happiness in my marriage, and talked about how much he wants me to be happy in life. When he pulled me over and held me, I just cried and cried. It was not just for him, but everything. I didn't realized how much I have been keeping in until someone stronger than me, let me cry in their arms.
When I finally decided to go, I said to please not email me anymore. We needed a clean break. I hugged and kissed him goodbye. And we know when we bump into each other at work, those glances to each other will be "remember when" vs "how about our secret". It couldn't have ended better. It was bittersweet. I'm devasted, but I also felt lighter when I left his house. I can focus on my life now-quit ignoring my friends, family, husband, goals, etc. I'll mourn a bit, but I think it will get better as each day passes. He's gone for the next three weeks from work, so that will be easier to deal with.
One day at a time. It hurts like hell though. Its hard being strong. I just want to lay down & cry.
Pages