Sinking

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-15-2004
Sinking
23
Mon, 04-05-2004 - 1:11pm
I'm beginning to feel like a big whiner on this board, but where else would I turn.

My H decided he needed to do some more talking, which is good, but he says that I'm being vague in my answers and he wants me to open up more. I'm not sure what he is looking for. I have been brutely honest in my responses regarding the A and my feelings toward xMM. He says it's not enough, and then he ended up breaking down crying. By this time, we had been rehashing everything for a couple of hours, he kept telling me that I'm not being honest with myself, let alone him, so I really didn't have very much sympathy. I just said, I'm sorry, I'm so friggin' tired and I don't know what you want me to say. He ended up sleeping on the couch.

This morning, my H sent me an email at work, apologizing for his break-down. I told him never to apologize, that maybe we should see a marriage counsellor. He replied that he doesn't think that a counsellor will do anything more than what we are doing already, and that his schedule doesn't really allow for it (true). He said he doesn't want me to hold back anything, and not to worry about hurting him further in the telling of the truth.

So this is where I responded with total honesty. "If XXXX were to leave his wife, would I want to be with him - Yes. Would it be easy for me to walk away from our life together - No. Would your feelings and the feelings of our kids be instrumental in me making a decision - Yes. Would it be an easy decision - No. Do I know what my decision would be - No. If, his marriage doesn't work out, would he even want me - I have no idea. Do I think that's going to happen - No. Do I want to be alone - No. Am I using you as a consolation prize - Maybe. Is my heart broken - Yes. If he hadn't ended it, would I still be involved - Probably, but as I told you, I don't think I could have lasted much longer with the deception, I would have ended up telling you eventually. Do I want our marriage to work - Yes. Would I want our marriage to work, if his didn't - I don't know."

Anyway, he responded back with "Thats the honesty I was looking for.Thank you.

I to want our marriage to work and if that means

being second fiddle I guess I'm willing to accept

that.So please don't hold back any more Ok.

ALL MY LOVE XXXX."

I feel like I'm on a sinking ship. I am leaning over the edge of depression, barely holding on. I ended up running home during my lunch, making love with my H - trying desperately to hold on to anything.

Dig me a hole, let me climb in, cover me over!

Red





Edited 4/22/2004 8:51 am ET ET by red_bella

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-04-2004
In reply to: red_bella
Mon, 04-05-2004 - 3:06pm
(((RED)))

sweetie, what a day...

Probably going to babble a little here... don't know that I have advice, just some thoughts to let you know we're listening to you and thinking about you...

Lots to agree with from other posters... especially what Omaha said about self esteem of the H. Be honest... does that lack of self esteem make him a little harder to love right now? If he'd fought you a little and threatened to leave, would it have been easier or harder? If my W did find out and said she'd be second string... wow, she'd really not be who I thought she was and it would sort of blow my image of her apart. I'd rather have her be the cold princess she is than that. But that's me.


You know, after leaving funerals I usually want to have sex. Something life affirming in it, some physical way of knowing I'm ok. Maybe the same sort of thing happened to you today... maybe it was something else. I don't know, I'm just sort of rambling here.

As for your H saying he doesn't want to see a counselor... I don't know, I went alone last summer and it was good for me. My W fought me all the way (even mocking people who went to therapy, not knowing I was going at the time) and didn't want to go. Now that I'm out, she's willing to go, but would really like to go with me there in order to have a safety net. It's a little scary I think for people who don't like to examine themselves. I'm an extrovert but very introspective, always have been. I ask myself a lot of questions and really want to know myself well. My W is absolutely not like that, so she's terrified that someone might reveal something to her she doesnt' want to know, hence no therapy until now... and even now I see it's grudgingly at best. And with that attitude, I don't think it will help so I'm not participating.

Please dont' feel like you're whining... you're among friends, and there are certainly enough of us here that are getting through life one day at a time, and in some cases, one hour at a time. We'll all hang together and share what we can, even if it's only hope and sympathy... a lot of times, that will be enough.

Take care, Red... I'm sure all of us will be thinking of you.

rain

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-15-2004
In reply to: red_bella
Mon, 04-05-2004 - 3:18pm
Rain,

You are so sweet. Not to make matters worse, but I think I could fall in love with you (if I haven't already) LOL. I actually love your babble, so please feel free anytime.

Anyway, I think you hit the nail on the head regarding my H's lack of self-esteem. I actually said to him "Put your hands around my throat, yell, scream, walk out the door - something, anything other than that pathetic look of how could you do this to me". Like I said, I wasn't very sympathetic at the time.

Well, the sex thing is something that you and I seem to have in common as well. I love having sex after funerals as well, I just wasn't sure why until you gave me your reason. And yes, that seems a reasonable explanation for today. There was just so much accountability this morning, that I felt I had to reach out - and sex is what I'm best at (just kidding) LOL

Hey, looks like I'm starting to feel better today - that two laughs in one post.

As for the counselling, I think I am also afraid - I seem to have a lot of issues - and I don't want to end up a person that places blame on their parents and childhood for every mistake made in adulthood. I guess if I go in aware, that won't happen. As I said in an earlier reply, I will be seeking IC. We'll see where that takes me.

Thank you Rain, as usual you put a smile back on my face.

Red


iVillage Member
Registered: 03-30-2004
In reply to: red_bella
Mon, 04-05-2004 - 3:21pm
Rain,

I am glad that it was helpful. I went through so much and it was so difficult. At first I felt like a really weird person because I wanted (NEEDED) to know every little detail. I started doing a lot of research and a lot of reading and I realize that this is normal. I felt like a freak. I printed stuff and gave it to my H and asked him to read and try to get an insight into how I was feeling so that he could better cope with me in those times I needed him most......he said he read, but I don't think he ever did. Or if so he didn't take it very seriously. I honestly believe that he thinks he did nothing wrong. He grew up in that kind of atmosphere...cheating, gambling...very demanding father. It's almost like he just followed in his footsteps. Now the problem in our marriage is that he wants me to be open and upfront about every breath I take.....I used to be the adoring wife....now I tell him nothing. He hates it. We did the counseling thing....the problem with that is BOTH of you have to go in there be HONEST. He wasn't. He lied to her too. He kept saying I was trying to get him to admit to stuff that he didn't do and he was never going to do that.....well the counselor said that he wasn't remorseful and that I could accept it and live with him or leave....I've tried both and I still don't know what it the lesser of the two evils. The important thing to remember is that both parties envolved have to be willing to work at it and do whatever work is necessary for the marriage to get repaired....with the fear of sounding like Dr. Phil here.....the person who had the affair needs to accept that they are the one that took that leap and went outside the marriage, for whatever reasons (i'm not assigning blame here) and they are the ones that have to be willing to do whatever the injured party needs to make them once again feel safe and comfortable in the marriage. That was the problem, my H wanted to do what HE thought needed to be done. But it wasn't about him, it was about what I needed. He NEVER GOT IT!!!! I knew that I did things to contribute to him having an affair and I wanted to know what I had done, so that I could fix it and we could better prepare ourselves against this ever happening again (to either of us). I finally figured out that it was his ultimate decision to have the affair. I knew I helped it along, but I wasn't to blame. There is always an alternative course of action. I would rather that he left me than hurt me like that. Well, I have told him that I want a divorce several times, he will not move out, I cannot afford to move out and we have 3 children that are miserable right now because of our bad choices. I know it and he knows it. I guess we are both just too childish to do anything permanent about it. He tells me that he NEVER wanted a divorce, that he always loved me he just thought he needed something "extra". To me that is not excuse. I make no excuses now for the affair I am in.......I choose to be in it. I know it is not the right thing to be doing, and I have told OM that. But I want to be with him and there is no other way for us to be together. It's day's like Sat. that bring me an eye opener. MM's children are 8 & 4 and I saw them going into a store with their sitter, the little one was hitting every mud puddle he could find, and I realize why MM can never leave his family. I could never ask him to do that. I could never leave my kids....... I realize that if this thing blows up in our faces that he chances to loose all of that and I see why he steps back from time to time like he does in order to take a breath and look at what is going on. It just makes me ill to think that one day he could be standing in front of His W and saying to her that I meant NOTHING and it was just sex and he never felt anything........ I see both sides of this thing and neither one are very pleasant.

Kitty

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-16-2003
In reply to: red_bella
Mon, 04-05-2004 - 3:25pm
Bella,

Different people need sex for different reasons. I have sex when I want to reach out - like you said - that's why I thought having sex was the right thing. I don't know if H has a self esteem problem - as far he is concerned he might be feeling something is wrong about you being involved in an affair and is trying to amend the situation. A lot of people re-act differently to situations, and unless you have known he has a big time esteem problem I wouldn't make too much out of it.

Like everybody said, counselling is worth a try. Good Luck!

Juliet.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-30-2004
In reply to: red_bella
Mon, 04-05-2004 - 3:31pm
..........as an after thought.... about the self esteem thing...it is a GREAT ISSUE. I felt like the most undesireable woman on the planet. It made me sick to think of my H looking at, being with OW. I became self conscious about everthing I did, wore, said, etc. I am to vain tho, (Leo) I dropped about 40lbs, bought new clothes, and flirted with everyone that flirted with me. I became my old self again....if you can do that after 22 years of marriage! ha ha anyway, i just tried so hard to dig deep and realize that spouse wasn't "all that". If BS knows OW/OM then that makes it hard. Because you are constantly comparing yourself to them, wondering if the sex was as good, all kinds of things. This is why the talking, talking, talking and all the questions......just getting back a sense of ourselves. It's hard to understand I realize, and it honestly doesn't make much sense. But the struggle with self esteem is great. Altho my H lacked in honesty he did try to be good at complements, sending flowers out of the blue, things like that. Anything that you can do to help boost H's self esteem he would appreciate. Just little things, it doesn't have to be grand gestures, just let him know that you are thinking of him.

Kitty

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-14-2004
In reply to: red_bella
Mon, 04-05-2004 - 3:42pm
I feel the need to comment here. I understand your hurt, but some of the things you said don't ring true for me. Let me point out a couple of things I disagree with:

"The important thing to remember is that both parties envolved have to be willing to work at it and do whatever work is necessary for the marriage to get repaired."

Actually the point of counseling isn't to do "whatever work is necessary for the marriage to get repaired". The first step is to find the issues at the root of the problem. From there you can determine if both parties want the M saved. And I don't mean do they say they want it saved, but do they both truly want it saved? That question must be answered before you can go any further. It sounds to me like you never got to that point because your H stonewalled. But I think a lot of people have this misconception of counseling as some kind of workshop where you just repair what is wrong with your M. In my experience, counseling led me to the conclusion that I'd been overlooking the fact I didn't want to be in this M anymore.

"the person who had the affair needs to accept that they are the one that took that leap and went outside the marriage, for whatever reasons (i'm not assigning blame here) and they are the ones that have to be willing to do whatever the injured party needs to make them once again feel safe and comfortable in the marriage. That was the problem, my H wanted to do what HE thought needed to be done. But it wasn't about him, it was about what I needed. He NEVER GOT IT!!"

Of course the person who had the A needs to admit to making a mistake and work to rebuild trust. But I think you're way off in saying they "have to be willing to do whatever the injured party needs". Let's be honest here, in almost every circumstance, both people are hurting. He probably isn't going to be able or willing to do everything you ask. Getting through this is still a compromise if you want it to work. If you subject him to a constant barrage of questions and accusations, odds are he'll withdraw and then you're married to someone you don't even recognize. He should recognize what you need and try to provide it, obviously. But you also need to recognize what he needs. Otherwise you'll be right back where you started. None of this excuses him for being unfaithful and hurting you, but if your counseling and R become about the fact he had an affair, then everything is negative. Why would he want to participate??

I guess that is the extent of what I see. I certainly don't blame you for feeling hurt and it doesn't seem he ever really tried to solve the problems in your M. I do think the two of you either need to try counseling in a more loving and positive way or else you need to make a decision to move on. Nothing is being solved by staying together when you don't want to be there. Your kids are seeing a poor model for a R and you are wasting years of your life with someone you no longer respect or trust. I hope you can find your way through this, one way or another.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-16-2003
In reply to: red_bella
Mon, 04-05-2004 - 3:45pm
You wrote:

"I also don't think the things you told your H will be helpful in the long run. Some things are better left unsaid. Sure, he wanted to know everything, but that doesn't mean he really wanted or needed to know it all. The things that were said may have damaged the chances of the M working more than you know. I think the fact your H said he is willing to be "second fiddle" to make your M work is horrible. That shows a tremendous lack of self-esteem and is likely to make you respect him even less. He should want and deserve being number 1 in your life."

Omaha, did you relly think that he was going to be play "second fiddle" for the rest of his life. There are somethings that H & W do that defies the laws of self esteem (LOL) but if him saying such a thing get him closer to her, I would think it was OK. Its like wooing his wife back. heh. There is no ego issues between people who truly care and love each other. If Bella has other reasons to believe he does have a self esteem problem, maybe, we have a problem. His reaction is lot better than a lot of spouses who refuse to see what the issue is really that drove their better half to an A, than just saying "Your liar, you cheated on me" etc etc.

JMHO

Juliet

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-24-2003
In reply to: red_bella
Mon, 04-05-2004 - 3:45pm
I agree, Juliet. I think it would be unfair to Red's husband to just assume that he has self-esteem problems based on what he said. He could have said it on the spur of the moment, or because it hurts so much that he is just not thinking clearly. His world as he knows it is crashing around him - and when that happens to us do we really have any control over what we say or do?
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-02-2004
In reply to: red_bella
Mon, 04-05-2004 - 3:48pm
Hi Red! I just read your science fair update post! Boy, you must feel like you've been on a rollercoaster the past few days! My heart was breaking for you when you described seeing MM at the science fair and having to pretend like you didn't know each other. That must have been so hard for you. And now the words from H. I can't imagine what you must be going through right now.

I agree with another poster who suggested that you still seek counseling, even if it is just for yourself. It may help you get through all of this and clarify some of the things that are going on in your mind and heart right now. Even if H won't go, he may eventually if he sees you making the effort.

Please keep us posted as to how you are doing. We are all here for you! :)

(((hugs)))

Circe

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-16-2003
In reply to: red_bella
Mon, 04-05-2004 - 3:51pm
See I told you we think alike a lot. :)