Some new information...

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-03-2003
Some new information...
9
Mon, 10-27-2003 - 9:43am
Over the weekend I ran into a friend of mine that I've recently found out is an old friend of MM's. I've seen this woman since my A began, but I didn't realize until a few weeks ago that MM knew this woman from childhood. She actually is better friends with his first wife, the one he cheated on with his current wife years ago. I asked this woman if she knew MM and she started talking about him in a not-so-favorable manner. She said she got the impression he wasn't a very good husband to his first wife (not a surprise, considering he CHEATED on her!) and she hinted that there might have been some physical and emotional abuse there. I can't even begin to fathom MM doing something like that -- no, I take that back, I don't want to believe it but it's not 100% unbelievable. He has shown some signs of possessiveness and jealousy and he says very hurtful things when he gets that way, but still... Then this woman mentioned his childhood and said she has heard MM was sexually abused as a child. I asked who abused him and she didn't know but said she thinks the older brother was involved. He's told me repeatedly that his father physically abused him growing up, but of course he never mentioned any sexual abuse. We're not really that close. I spent some time over the weekend thinking about this. Both MM and I had abusive situations with our father and, if this rumor is true, we both were sexually abused as children. I don't know much about childhood sexual abuse and how it affects a person as he/she gets older, but would an A play a part in that? It's all just rumor and conjecture but for someone like me who's trying to talk herself out of MM in every way possible, I have to take everything I can get!
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Registered: 09-29-2003
Mon, 10-27-2003 - 10:25am
As a victim of childhood abuse I can only sympathize with your situation. It is difficult part of your life that you have to re-live over and over again unless it has be dealt with in therapy or otherwise. Did you have any closure from your abuse, in the sense that you exonerated yourself from the feeling that you had something to bring on the abuse? If you can go easy on yourself -- its the best way to healing. I also had to tell it out to someone - to my therapist and a close friend to let all my anger go from the abuse. Have you or MM had a chance to do that? I don't know if sexually abused ppl end up in an A but I know they do have tendency to involve be in abusive relationships in adult life. They also tend to hide emotions by avoiding them or denying them. Its not easy, but you have to get past that. Also there are a lot of iVillage message boards that offer help for victims of abuse. I have benefitted by learning that I am not the only one who has been in abusive experience and how to cope from the triggers. From somebody who has been there done that, lots of hugs to you both. BTW, you can email me throught my member profile if you want talk more about it all. Take care.


Edited 10/27/2003 11:36:34 AM ET by autumnbreeze_iv
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Registered: 09-03-2003
Mon, 10-27-2003 - 10:45am
Well, neither of us have been in therapy and I wouldn't suggest it to him. He's one of those types that really doesn't listen to anyone else anyway -- I'm sure he feels he's dealing with it just fine. I have never been able to bring myself to go to therapy -- one, I just don't have time and two, I don't know how I'd explain it to H. Plus I'm not sure I could share such private aspects of my life with a stranger, even a licensed one. Something you said hit home, though: "They also tend to hide emotions by avoiding them or denying them." I think I do that in a huge way. I've basically just tried not to think about the abuse. I also don't think about the fact that my real father left when I was very young and really doesn't care about me. My sister has always had a hard time with this but I've always said since I am older than her and saw he didn't care about us from a young age, it just became a part of who I am. But then a week or two ago a very introspective woman I work with was listening to me joke about how I haven't seen my dad in years and she said, "Someday, when you're ready, you'll come to terms with that." I told her I really don't have a problem with it; it's just a part of my life, but she wasn't buying it. She said I'm blocking it out until I'm ready to deal with it but that I'll never be the fully functioning adult I need to be until I do get some closure on it. No, I've never blamed myself either for the sexual abuse or the emotional/physical abuse. I don't even have anger toward the perpetrators, which I'm sure isn't healthy. It's probably just a sign that I've pushed it all to the back of my mind to deal with "later." I do know that when I was a teen and my stepfather was yelling at me, at some point I learned to escape into my mind, where I'd create stories about my future -- a time when I was rich and famous and married to some wonderful man who'd treat me well. That's how this whole other life emerged in my mind where I'd have fantasies about celebrities and, later, men I worked with. I think I've just spent so much time fantasizing about this "other me" I have a complete inability to deal with the A I'm having now. It's like the fantasy, only it's happening in real life. I don't seem to REALIZE it's happening in real life, though, and that I'm hurting those I love with my behavior. See how much FUN a therapist would have with me?
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Registered: 09-03-2003
Mon, 10-27-2003 - 11:09am
Here's another thing I just thought about... Please don't judge him or tell me what a jerk he is (I already know that!); just indulge me for a moment. From the beginning of this A, he had this way of pulling me under. I guess a better analogy would be of leading me down the wrong path. And I'd just follow, like I didn't have a mind of my own. Like I had no ability to say NO and hurt his feelings, even when he really shouldn't have been putting me in that position in the first place. But for a while there, things had regressed to a pretty bad place. He'd ask me to show him things and I WOULD. Now I know many of you probably went less time in your As before MM saw you naked, but thinking of me as a former victim of childhood sexual abuse, this is really, really bad. I wasn't getting naked in the context of lovemaking or in a situation where he was naked too. He wanted to see my thongs. Then the next time he wanted to see my bra. You can pretty much tell where it went from there. It's like when I was a child and being asked to do things I didn't understand and didn't WANT to do, yet I found myself doing anyway because the boy was older and I thought I'd be in trouble if I didn't. MM is six years older than me and he has that same presence that boy had. I never realized it until now. He's got this charisma that just makes you want to have him like you. How unhealthy is all this??? What does it mean? The thing is, this new revelation that MM MIGHT have been sexually abused as a child himself throws a new light on all of this. Is his need to have power over me, to get me to do things I ordinarily wouldn't do, part of him dealing with what happened to him as a child? Is it just that that's the only way he knows how to cope? I guess if the rumors of sexual abuse are true it's good he's doing all this to me and not some child, but it all seems so sordid now. It'll be interesting to see how I feel about him when I do talk to him again. If I can just grasp onto this and not let go, maybe that's the key to getting myself out of this mess. (Yeah, right!)
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-29-2003
Mon, 10-27-2003 - 11:36am
I would not confide with the H unless you are sure he totally understand the concept of abuse. My H did not really understand it when I told him about it after many years of marriage. Some people get it and some don't - that's way it is. I did not go to a psychiarist just for this - I had post partum depression, that was the reason why I went. Later as I got comfortable with her, I told her about the sexual abuse. Lilah, I don't think you are weird or anything - so don't think of yourself as being a therapist's dream or fun. Believe me, my psychiatrist has seen a lot of worse cases than you. Don't let that stop you from going to one. Just go in for a depression screening and see how you like the experience. If you feel comfortable - you can continue with therapy. I too put away my abuse in the back of mind for years and did not let it out until two years back when I was in therapy. I can tell you that it did feel a lot better from letting it out to my therapist and you friend. It was like I had a heavy load lifted off my mind and was ready for closure (until H messed it all up). Please try professional help sometimes it may be worth. That way you can come to grips with the reality/fantasy part of your life - I don't mean to be insenstive here but coming to grips is what you need to do. I have been where you have been -- your fanatasizing is a coping mechanism nothing more. This will give you a chance to re-evaluate your R's with H and the MM. I tend to think clearly when I can say out loud things to my therapist and I feel better. She is like a friend to me and sometimes validates my feelings and behavior.
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Registered: 09-29-2003
Mon, 10-27-2003 - 12:04pm
What you are describing about MM asking you to show and you would even though it bothered you - its what called a trigger. When he asks to show your bra or thongs he is reminding you of the abuse as a child and it probably depresses you too. If you had closure from it or atleast know how to deal with abusive situation from therapy or reading about - you would have refused his requests. I read a lot about sexual abuse as a teen and adult so that gave some coping skills. That is why you should not avoid/deny/discredit your physical/sexual abuse in childhood for later because the experience hasn't yet taught you how to handle another situation just like that. Your MM isn't a jerk but he doesn't know that he is "triggering" you with his requests. About the control issue - it could be that your MM feels the need to be in control of the situation (A) as his abuse might have made him to that -- imagine you have an experience that's totally beyond your control and you hate to be in that situation again. Hope that helps....
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Registered: 09-03-2003
Mon, 10-27-2003 - 1:23pm
I don't think "depressed" would be the correct term for how his show-and-tell act makes me feel. His reaction excites me actually, but in retrospect it always seems so, so wrong. And I keep thinking if this ever ends how will I face him every day, having to work with him knowing what I'd done? Maybe it's a control issue for me; I don't know. I certainly don't have to show him anything when he asks, so I can't blame him entirely. I have told him from time to time this little game is unfair because HE isn't showing anything and he offers but I really just don't want to see anything. I guess it's not as big a deal for me to see him naked. But here's the thing -- now I'm not dealing with my issues with HIM. I'm pushing thoughts of him aside and trying to focus on other things to avoid dealing with how I feel about him. I fear that if I dwell on him too long, I'll end up falling deeply for him as I was back last summer when his pushing me away hurt me so badly. So the failure to deal with my emotions you mentioned in an earlier post is manifesting itself here, actually, which is strange. I honestly can't tell you how I feel about him right now. We both had long weekends but last week before we left we kissed for the first time in a while. Kissing in the past has led him to feel guilty -- compounding that was the fact that he and his wife were intimate for the first time in a while over the weekend. If past behavior is any indication, he should have been SO pushing me away today. I instinctively showed up for work today expecting him to go through one of his guilt phases (we're LONG overdue for one; his last one was back in August) so I fully prepared for it. I didn't call him all morning and he finally called, around the time he always does to ask me to come see him, and when I got to him he wanted to know why I hadn't called him. So maybe the reason for the lack of his guilt trips is that I'm the one pushing him away? Last week I told him I was tired of the roller coaster -- of trying to guard myself against him pushing me away -- and he pointed out that *I'm* a roller coaster as much as he is. It was kind of an eye-opener to me because I was so used to guarding myself against how HE was treating ME, I never thought how I was treating HIM. I'm just so unsure of my feelings for him right now -- do I really want to be with him or am I just letting him lead me along like I was led along as a child? I don't know... It's not fair to him or his family for me to be in this for the wrong reasons, though.
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Registered: 09-29-2003
Mon, 10-27-2003 - 2:37pm
Lilah you crack me up - don't want to see him naked,eh? LOL :) Well, if him asking you to "show" is not a cheapening experience then I don't think you have any issues with your sexuality. So, that's a relief.

As far as how your emotions go, there are certain things unavoidable if your are getting your feelings involved - like getting hurt. I think you are like me, cannot be in any R without your feeling involved in it - whether you like it or not. There is no avoiding that - I can see that from your posts. There are two different paths as far I can see for you - one get into it knowing you will have to end when he feels guilty and get hurt, OR walk away from it all before you go any further with your A. Hope it all works out for you.

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Registered: 09-03-2003
Mon, 10-27-2003 - 2:51pm
Actually, those are probably the same two choices every single person on this board has every single day. End it before we get any deeper in or go with it until it ends. At one time I honestly thought I was in love with the guy and wanted to spend the rest of my life with him. What happened? I think I came to the realization that he DOES still love his wife, despite their differences, and that he sucks as a husband. It's a whole lot easier to have an A with a man whose wife is despicable. If you have a MM like mine, who loves his wife but can't help himself, you realize pretty fast that there's nothing about you that's going to be any better than what he currently has. If he can love her and stray, he'll stray on you too. It's a pretty hard reality to face. In fact, she's BETTER than many wives because she can keep up the hot, exciting sex even after years and years of marriage and kids. It may not be every night but when it does happen it's awesome. So why is that not enough for him? As for my sexuality, I think it's possible that after abuse a person can head in the other direction. I don't know for sure but it seems like at some point in my life I've read that some strippers, prostitutes, and porn stars were formerly sexually abused. It's almost as though at some point as a child you learn that flaunting your sexuality gets you places. But I've changed...MM has changed me, and oddly I think he's changed me in a good way. All my life until about six months ago I was extremely inhibited and I dressed very conservatively. I think at that point I DID have problems with my sexuality. I fantasized about all kinds of things but could never bring myself to do them with another person. Sex was under the covers, in the dark, and never, EVER talked about. Just through words and our flirtation, MM has pulled me out of my shell and my sex life with H is better than it's ever been. It may be too absurd, but is it possible that the show-and-tell games (as well as all the sex talk) helped me put a little closure on my past problems? That maybe I realized that I can be a sexual person and there's nothing wrong with that? I don't know...it's probably reaching, but it doesn't make sense that MM would actually make my life BETTER if I still have all these scars.
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Registered: 09-29-2003
Tue, 10-28-2003 - 8:46am
It is hard to have an A when you know your MM is in love with his wife and his sex life is fine too. It makes you wonder what does he misses at home that needs you to fulfil - maybe its just variety in the sex. I don't know but its beyond me to grasp it all as I used to think people had A because there was something missing at home. I know a lot of women who post here do have a good M and also have a A, I am not making a sweeping judgement by saying all that - its just that I personally cannot be in that situation.

I am glad you have changed for the good. All your inhibitiions have gone,thats good. I lost all of my inhibitions slowly over the years with H. At first I was reserved with him and he couldn't figure out why - he thought it was something to do with him. I was not ready to tell him about my childhood abuse then. Then my MM came along and I was a different girl, I lost all of my inhibitions - he made me feel desirable not like a slut. So I guess my situation is kind of similar to mine. I have "blosommed" sexually with him than I did with H, so its all good. :-)