spouse's therapy invitation; been there?
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| Mon, 05-03-2004 - 8:59pm |
Today my W mentioned that her therapist asked her if she thought I'd be willing to sit in. While my W doesn't know for sure she is ready for it, she did mention it. And I said I'd go since I want to help if I can.
Here's the thing: since moving out a month ago I've had time to clarify my feelings to myself and really examine long standing issues in our R/M. My heart and mind really are becoming fairly clear on the issue: I can't really imagine going back after all I've been through there. Even if there were no OW, I just don't think I'd be real anxious to go back because in spite of any recent slight changes I don't believe the long term will be much different.
My W is very much a driver/Type A person; if fixing her M is on the list, it's going to get done. But if I went back I think that would do little more than cross "fix marriage" off the list.
Anyone else go through this? Omaha, I know you've mentioned your rounds of counseling. I'm sure others have done this. Did it make any real difference? Anyone see any real changes that held up? Do I just go in and use that session for an outpouring of honesty about how I just don't have my heart in fixing this mess yet again since I don't think it will hold up any better?
In some ways I feel like having a mediator (her counselor) will help get some things across that so far she has just rejected; things like how incredibly different our personalities are, how we deal with things, what's important to us as individuals, how we have never really had any couple goals or plans, etc.
Just curious about experiences and opinions. I'm willing to go, but I'm trying to figure out how to best use the session.
rain

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And rain.....how does OW feel about your attending therapy with the W? Just curious! =)
KC
If you are sure that your marriage isn't for you why misleadd W by trying to go to the counselling session?? You are happy to move out and happy your with your OW. Why do you need to go to counselling? If you guys are tryin to use a mediator, that will help your divorce, that is different. That might help your goal. Other wise I think its best not to lead W on with counselling. JMHO
Julia
Hi rain,
I think what I may have experienced would have been different... I'm pretty sure that for you... your marriage is out of the question... it's over and down with and you both need to move on... to whatever that is.
I did both single and
Sweet
Co-Community Leader My
Well, I think in the interest of her peace of mind... I won't be sharing that particular bit of information. There doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to tell her about it before or after unless something comes of it that changes my R with her.
If I tell her, she'll just worry and obsess until afterwards. And then she'll worry and obsess if I'm telling her all that came out of it. I know it's a bit dishonest and not really a terrific idea to keep secrets, but it also seems vaguely cruel to give her the information and let her obsess about it.
Besides, the only real difference it will make is if I decided to go back to my W. In which case the cause makes precious little difference since all she'll really care about is that I am going back.
rain
I think you (and others) are probably right. It seems a little dishonest to go to counseling with the W. I haven't firmed a decision not to go back, it's only been a month and I said I'd give it a little time. A month ago I wasn't sure, but the more time I'm away the more sure I become.
I wanted to go to counseling last spring when I thought maybe there was some chance to save this, but the W wouldn't hear of it. I went alone and had no support for it really. It was only when I announced I was leaving did she make the call to go talk.
My guilt over this whole situation isn't about the A. It's because I really care about my W as a friend and I wish I knew how to help her. I don't know if it's to cut ties more (which is hard because we work together) or what to do. She doesn't have a good support network. Basically, I'm it. I know I'm not really responsible for her happiness, but I do feel responsible for her as a friend. I feel guilty about abandoning her when she needs me, but I'm frustrated that she can't seem to see things from my POV.
I've been careful not to hint that I was coming back or anything of the sort. I've been polite, friendly, professional and genuinely caring of her well being. I've absolutely avoided the physical (sexual) contact she's really asking for because it's such a bad idea on every level.
I guess the problem is that everyone's "rock bottom" is different. I hit mine a while back, last summer when I realized that she just wasn't going to take seriously my needs or wants and would actually fight me if allowed to. When I moved out, I was already long gone emotionally. Her rock bottom didn't happen until that Sunday, and now... well, I guess it's becoming obvious it's probably too late.
Sort of trying to decide if I should tell the therapist before I go in there. When I wanted to work on it, she didn't take it serious enough -- or, more accurately, wasn't willing to let anyone help what we weren't able to fix alone.
I think I only want to go to try to help ease the W's pain. Just trying to figure out if I'm going to be doing that or making it worse.
rain
May I ask what are some of the wants and needs she wasn't taking seriously?
>>>When I wanted to work on it, she didn't take it serious enough -- or, more accurately, wasn't willing to let anyone help what we weren't able to fix alone.<<<
Now I'm not being coy here, but aren't you the one who isn't taking it seriously enough now? I mean, this is a marriage after all...there is absolutley NOTHING left to salvage; there are absolutely no feelings/emotions left whatsoever to attempt to work with here? It sounds like she's right there, willing to give it one more shot. And really, it's JUST counseling, afterall ;)
I don't know, you said you haven't firmed a decision not to go back. You also said that it's been a month, but a month isn't a very long time...
This is difficult stuff, I know, but I wouldn't go making any life-altering decisions for quite some time if I were you. JMO
Rain,
I know you've said several times that you think its too late and that you just want to help your wife as much as possible. But you've also not said that you won't ever go back and I think you're probably still clinging to your marriage in subtle, little ways. (I also suspect that OW senses this and a large part of her insecurities are based upon the unspoken, maybe unacknowledged ties you are maintaining.)
My suggestions to you are a.) See the counselor alone, _before_ you meet with him as a couple. b.) seriously consider telling OW. You are trying to start a new relationship, and as hard as it is, hiding this from her would only increase her sensitivity to "something's not right" while finding out later would undermine her trust in you, and c.) when you see the counselor with your wife, have a goal for the session in mind before you walk in. You want to express some things, and I suspect that if you thought she were really changing and growing herself, you would be tempted to return to your marriage. Reality is that few people will ever make those kind of core changes and I'm sure that you're aware of the fact, but put out your emotional antenna and really hear what she's saying in the session. At least you'll know you've done what you could, for yourself, for your wife, for what is or was your marriage. (A decent funeral is sometimes the most respectful thing you can provide.)
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Cazrida
I am also very interest in this subject.
I have recently started IC, and I can't say that I really like it. I do not like delving into the "why's" of my life and the mistakes I've made. I have always been very honest, and I do own up to my actions, but what the counselling is doing for me is "helping" me remember certain events that I would rather forget.
My H is totally against MC, although he is very supportive of the IC I have been receiving. In his view, anyone that he knows that have gone to MC are no longer together as a couple. I believe that we need MC.
To be honest, with his opinion on my mind, I'm not sure if I would like him to attend MC in order that he may be able to realize that we have many differences, or that I may realize we have many similarities.
It is unfortunate that your W does not know about OW. And, I only say this because, she does not realize what she is up against. I mean no disrespect. She is trying to fight for a marriage that has no chance, and she doesn't understand why. I know from your posts, that OW is not the reason for the disintegration of your M, however you are getting a taste of what it is to be "together" with OW as a "real" couple - problems and all - and you like it.
Your W thinks that you are living alone, with thoughts of her and where "your relationship" has gone wrong. Again, I understand that you know what the problems are in your marriage, and that she has turned a blind eye. She is in denial, as is my H. The fix does not come with a couple of counselling sessions to band-aid the wounds that have been inflicted over the years, and then ripped-off to reveal a totally healed, albeit scarred, heart. That's not the way it works.
But, I still think it unfair that your W does not know where your heart truly lies, and I think it unfair the OW does not know the lengths that you are willing to go to spare W's feelings, or hers for that matter.
You are not being true to your W, and you are not being true to OW. Most of all, you are not being true to yourself.
This is easy for me to say. I do know how difficult it is to reveal your true feelings especially if those feelings may cause pain to someone you love. There comes a point where we have to say to ourselves, "I matter, my feelings matter, and I need to do those things that are going to make me happy - I can no longer make myself feel responsible for this other person's happiness".
We need to do this with honesty! We cannot lead on, the people we love, with the premise that things can be worked out.
Did you notice that this reply went from being about "you" to being about "we". I guess I'm trying to work out my own problems or to give myself "advice" at the same time, and I recognized a similarity in our situations. I apologize for that. I'm sure it's been said here before "Easier said than done!"
Please let me know how the counselling works out.
Take care
Red
At the same time, MM and I have had some very wonderful, yet very scary conversations lately. MM has told me how much he loves me and that as far as he is concerned, his ultimate goal is for us to be together. While part of me LOVES that idea, I can’t promise him it will ever happen. Aside from the fact that we both have kids to consider, and that we live so far away from each other, the truth is that I do care for DH. He is truly a good person and I hate the thought of hurting him. MM, to his credit, would NEVER push me to leave my M. I would never push him to leave his either. I’ve made him no promises about a future together although I have acknowledged that I think it would be wonderful.
I guess it is all about balance. Honestly I don’t know how Sweet does it. I hope and pray that some day I’ll find the balance in my own life. And/or that I’ll be able to decide which path is the correct one for me.
Now that I’ve taken the thread way off the original topic let me say this: Rain, I’ve never been in counseling so it is hard for me to offer much advice. I will say this though – BE HONEST. If you decide to go, tell your W your true feelings about your M and why you are willing to go to counseling with her anyway. Don’t build up false hope that there might be a chance to repair the M if there really isn’t one. As for the OW, I can see why you might not want to tell her. I can also see why you should tell her. You’ll have to go with your gut on that one.
Good luck!
GB2
I read all the responses to this thread before responding myself. A lot of issues have been raised and I may come back and offer my 2 cents of some of these later. But for now, I want to answer your original questions.
As you know, I do have experience with this. After I told my W about IS, I was ready to leave. But there were still some doubts in my mind because I hadn't fully considered all the issues involved in the end of my M. I did end up going to counseling and for a short while, cutting off contact with IS. When I went to the first session, I fully expected the counselor to tell me I was crazy and that the problems I had with our M were just minor details. Imagine my surprise then, when she didn't minimize my feelings at all. By the second session, which was a one-on-one session for me, my reasons for leaving were more clear than ever. The counselor pointed out that I had undergone a lot of personal growth over the previous few months and that my W and I were never really compatible emotionally and in the ways we communicate. I walked out of counseling feeling more confident and secure in my decision than I ever could have without it.
How this relates to you is difficult to ascertain. Your situation is clearly different as you're already further along in the process than I am. And you are obviously unable and unwilling to get any separation from your OW. Regardless though, I think counseling would serve you well. I think the reason so many people are afraid of counseling is they think it will change who they are somehow. All counseling does is let you clarify and come to terms with who you are. It doesn't change you. It just makes you more aware. And no one should be afraid of who they are. I think you would enjoy what you got from counseling Rain. I'm not completely sure you should go with your W though. I know you think that it would be a way for your W to hear you discuss how sure you are the M is over, but in my experience, that doesn't work. I thought my W would gain some closure from counseling, but she didn't. Because her only goal was to "keep me", anything else was a failure to her. She didn't use the counseling to deal with any of her own issues. And although I was very clear about my intentions and reasons, she claims she still doesn't understand why I'm leaving. I don't necessarily think it would be detrimental for you to go with her. I'm just not convinced it would open her eyes at all.
One thing I definitely want to say, though, is that whatever you decide to do, you should let your OW know. I know you're afraid of how she will react, but do you really want to have to hide things from her? There is a very real chance she'll find out eventually and then she'll feel very betrayed. I know there are insecurity issues there, but she is going to have to understand that you are working on you. All that will do is make you a better partner for her. Just reassure her and if she is still unreasonable, I suppose you'll have to just go and let her deal with it. I know that sounds harsh, but from my perspective, if you love someone you trust them and understand when they want or need something like this.
Well, I'm done for now. Hopefully this was somewhat helpful for you Rain. Whatever you decide to do, just be honest with yourself and everyone else. As much as you can be anyway. And as always, take care of yourself man.
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