spouse's therapy invitation; been there?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-04-2004
spouse's therapy invitation; been there?
13
Mon, 05-03-2004 - 8:59pm
Just soliciting experiences of any others here.

Today my W mentioned that her therapist asked her if she thought I'd be willing to sit in. While my W doesn't know for sure she is ready for it, she did mention it. And I said I'd go since I want to help if I can.

Here's the thing: since moving out a month ago I've had time to clarify my feelings to myself and really examine long standing issues in our R/M. My heart and mind really are becoming fairly clear on the issue: I can't really imagine going back after all I've been through there. Even if there were no OW, I just don't think I'd be real anxious to go back because in spite of any recent slight changes I don't believe the long term will be much different.

My W is very much a driver/Type A person; if fixing her M is on the list, it's going to get done. But if I went back I think that would do little more than cross "fix marriage" off the list.

Anyone else go through this? Omaha, I know you've mentioned your rounds of counseling. I'm sure others have done this. Did it make any real difference? Anyone see any real changes that held up? Do I just go in and use that session for an outpouring of honesty about how I just don't have my heart in fixing this mess yet again since I don't think it will hold up any better?

In some ways I feel like having a mediator (her counselor) will help get some things across that so far she has just rejected; things like how incredibly different our personalities are, how we deal with things, what's important to us as individuals, how we have never really had any couple goals or plans, etc.

Just curious about experiences and opinions. I'm willing to go, but I'm trying to figure out how to best use the session.

rain

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Registered: 03-04-2004
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 10:00am
Mayer --

"May I ask what are some of the wants and needs she wasn't taking seriously?"

Well, to be blunt. I've known her over 12 years, been a couple for about 11, and married for just over 5. Before ever dating she knew my sex drive, my extroversion and my enjoyment I get from meeting new people (and no, that isn't a nice way to say I was screwing around.) She knew my history because we were friends, and I knew hers. There were few mysteries about the real people we were.

As the relationship progressed, I had to make repeated and repeated calm statements that she wasn't going to be allowed to treat me worse than she treated everyone else, or like one of her employees. She is a strong women, made stronger by a successful career. And as she's done so, she has become intolerant of differing opinions, is always right, and constantly dictates to me what I should do (and for that matter, alienated a few friends by her need to constantly interupt everyone and tell them what they should do.) She didn't like that I was helping in my church with audio because I couldn't sit beside her the whole service, so she quit going and really kind of complained until I just didn't want to be involved either. She even tells me what direction I should take and how I should do things she has no material knowledge of. I'm a musician; she knows vaguely what a guitar is. When she's in my studio interupting my sentences to give me advice on how I should be doing things... she's well over the line. And she doesn't like being told that, no matter how gently. It's her way or the highway... and after 11 years, I've decided the highway doesn't look so bad.

She also knows that I like housework, like to cook, and generally expect to split chores and responsibilities *as appropriate*, not equally. If she's working late a lot, I will do more housework. If she's busy, I'll cook or do laundry or whatever. If I think the house is dirty, I'll get up and clean it. What I will not do is clean up after her because she is "too tired" or too lazy or whatever reason she had for not managing to take a dirty dish off the coffee table.

I never asked for or expected her to be a traditional wife. But I'm not about to be one either. I was very clear that I expected to be marrying a partner, an equal in many ways, a complement in others. And when the pastor asked me why I wanted to get married, I had a list of reasons I wanted to marry *her* specifically, and it ended with "because we have fun together." Her reasons were nothing, just because she wanted to. Well, we don't have fun together any more, and haven't for a long time, and she never has been able to tell me why she wanted to get married and even gets very upset when asked.

I am a very empathetic person, and I truly enjoy making other peoples' lives more pleasant. But I need a little affirmation in that, not criticism of me, my interests, my friends, and my desire to be sensual with my W. And just once in a while it would be nice to feel as important to her as finishing a report...

"Now I'm not being coy here, but aren't you the one who isn't taking it seriously enough now?"

No, I take it very seriously. I'm watching someone I love dearly whom I've spent a third of my life with go through the most painful experience of her life. I don't do this lightly. But to be blunt again, she's made me the back burner issue since we started dating. I didn't meet her friends *at all* for the first year we dated, didn't meet her mother for three years, her father and brother for five. She would have left me to take a better paying job but there was a counter offer. She didn't stay for me. She has made the rules and decisions virtually the entire R because I loved her more than she loved me, and that was fine. But it isn't fine any more.

I've always taken her seriously, and because of that I've always encouraged her happiness. I've told her she could do whatever she wanted and I would support it, but then I always made certain I told her I hoped she would find happiness here sharing a life with me. When we broke things off before getting engaged it was because she still hadn't taken my desire to be married and start a life seriously. It really wasn't on her list of things to do yet. She then put "on her list" the task of getting me back and getting married, which she did. But within a year of being married, it was the same relationship it had always been wherein I was the "given."

So after 11 years of this crap, I think I'm taking it pretty serious, and to be nasty, I think I'm treating her pretty damned well not to just pack my stuff and move in the night; she's going to get the house when this dissolves, the overwhelming lion's share of our joint account, and most of the contents of the house because that security means a lot to her and I don't want to remove it. Plus she makes about 3x what I do.

Two years of asking her to get help with me or without me and nothing... until I moved out. She's right there *now*... where was she six months ago? A year ago? It's like convincing someone to go to the doctor after they're dead.

As for only being out a month... well, that's true. It's taken me about six to work up the courage to move out, the whole time during which I've been telling her where I'm at, that I'd been to therapy and everything else. I'm just so tired of trying to fix this, and every time I have, she eventually goes back to who she really is. And that's fine for her. But I'm not going through life that way.

Sorry this turned into a very long rant... but that's the way I feel this morning. Pretty disgusted with the state of affairs (no pun intended.)

rain

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-04-2004
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 10:28am
Caz, Red, Omaha, et.al.

Well, as usual, asking questions and opinions here leads to a variety of replies, several with meaningful, thought-provoking comments.

To Caz... I have waffled a little on the M. I don't think it's because I believe there's some resolution, some new and improved W that would make me want my M back. I don't think I'm unsure about wanting to leave the M. What I'm unsure about, even now, is if I can. It's just so hard to see her so unhappy. I feel so guilty about it. I feel guilty enough that even when I'm writing here I seem to have to force myself to be firm about not going back. But when I'm with her... I'm just completely sure I don't want to do it any more. Last weekend I upheld plans I had made months ago with her... and she'd had a bad Friday, so she wasn't "selling" the new her on Saturday. And it was just like old times. And by that I mean it sucked.

To Red... thanks for all of your thoughts. They were really right on for me. My W didn't want to do counseling either so I went alone, and now she has gone grudgingly. I know what you mean about the attitude. And the comments about not being truthful with anyone including myself... yeah, that was pretty good insight. Going to have to mull that over a while today. Lots to think about there.

To Omaha... my W sounds much like yours. Her only real goal for going to counseling was to figure out how to get me back. To her, it's an equation: (time apart - apologies) x perceived amount of change = me coming home. I went to counseling last spring/summer alone for similar reasons you mentioned. I thought when I told the therapist the whole thing right off (the OW, everything) that she'd really lay it down that I had problems. But instead she told me she was impressed that I'd done so much work on my own to learn about myself and my W, and that I was so open so early on. I really only went like six or seven sessions because the therapist finally told me I just had to make a decision, that I pretty much had all of the information I'd really need. And you're right, I did enjoy those hours of discussion and I thought the experience was pretty valuable.

Everyone has agreed that I should tell the OW, so if the time comes for me to go to the session, I will tell her.

Thanks to everyone for your insights and comments. I really do appreciate them.

rain

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-14-2004
Tue, 05-04-2004 - 11:35am
Mayer,

I know Rain already responded to this, but I wanted to chime in.

You're fairly new here so you haven't read everything that Rain has offered about himself I'm sure. But he isn't just a month into this decision. He has been dealing with these issues for some time now and been over them a thousand times in his head. It seems you think he is rushing towards a divorce when that definitely isn't the case. He is taking things slowly and trying to be considerate of everyone's feelings. At the same time, I think he is fairly certain that his M won't work. I personally think counseling would be a good thing regardless.

And as far as his wife being willing to give it one more shot, the phrase "too little, too late" comes to mind. Rain tried to get her to go to counseling last year and she refused. It wasn't until he had already made his decision that she decided it was time to "save" the M. And as was my experience, it doesn't seem she's truly interested in resolving her own issues, but only in holding on to him. While it is nice to have someone want you, it doesn't do any good if you walk back into the exact same situation that made you miserable.

Again, I hope you don't perceive this as me intruding on your comments. I just thought some background might be helpful. Rain is one of the more thoughtful and considerate people on the board, so I have no doubts he will do the right thing here.

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