What do I/we do?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2004
What do I/we do?
23
Fri, 03-19-2004 - 6:13pm
I desperately need some advice. Please help me. I would appreciate any input you may have.

Just to provide you a quick background: I am a MW- no kids having an affair with a MM- with one child. We have fallen for each other and believe that we are soul mates but due to our marriages, are frustrated on a daily basis because we don't know if we will ever be together. He is torn up about leaving his son and feels that he can't do it in the foreseeable future...if ever. I suppose I feel the same way because I am married to a wonderful man (who I am, unfortunately, not in love with and only see as a best friend). It would be very hard for me to make that decision to hurt him.

This is the issue that is facing my MM right now: He is 40 years old with a 15 month old son. It had been determined (before I was in the picture) that he does not want his son to be an only child. His wife is/has been pressuring him for the past few months to try to have a second child. He loves his son so much and feels an obligation to give his son a sibling. BUT now that I am in the picture, he doesn't know what to do. He tells me that because of how much he loves me, every decision he makes will affect our relationship and he is not sure which way to go. Due to some circumstances...time is ticking and he needs to make a decision about having this second child SOON.

He is emotionally torn up right now because his choices are:

1. Make the determination to stay for his son, give-in and provide his son with a little brother or sister...and possibly lose me. (I don't know if I can stay if he decides to do this)

2. Think that he "may" have the courage to leave someday which would mean that they are better off stopping at one child.

Since we both don't know what the future will bring, it is literally tearing him up thinking that our/his marriage/his son's future is in his hands. I don't know what to do or what to even tell him. For some of you with kids...can you please share your input?

I'm sorry to babble on and hope that I provided you a "clear" enough picture of what the issues are that we/my MM is facing.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-04-2004
In reply to: flyermba
Mon, 03-22-2004 - 12:32am
hi flyer

I'm probably not the voice you'll want to hear. Sorry.

As a MM in an A, I can't tell you how impossible it's been for me to leave the M. I am constantly questioning how to make an exit, not because I don't believe the OW would make me happy... not because I really think my M has a chance of getting better... but because my M is the present, the status quo. This is the life my family and friends expect of me, this is the life I said I'd participate in, this is the life I've got. I'm really wanting to go but actually leaving has proven very hard especially when the guilt is laid on.

I'm several years your MM's junior, no children. I cannot begin to imagine the pressure involved in trying to leave a relationship with a 15 month old I loved in it.

I think the cold truth of the whole "MM leaving the W" scenario is that we usually don't, even when we find our soul mates, the woman who complete us. Not that none of us ever leave, just that most of us who are in the situation either leave quickly because we place our own happiness as a priority or we never leave because we place our commitments as a priority (at least, as far as our friends and families know.)

Honestly (and not meaning to sound at all egotistical) the things that make most MM the lovers/friends/companions that OW want are the things we have chosen to cultivate to make ourselves different; these are the traits we've tried to grow to make us worthy mates that stand out from other men. We try hard to be sensitive, passionate, loving, and faithful. By definition, it sort of means we aren't the kind of men to leave our wives. Also by definition it makes us hypocrites. Go figure.

From this MM's POV... I would be careful about hanging hopes on the "may have the courage" idea. Especially if he's a generally good-hearted / nice fellow.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
In reply to: flyermba
Mon, 03-22-2004 - 7:46am
Thank you Raining!

I consider myself a "regular" on this board although I never posted here (English is not my mother tongue) but I'm a regular lurker of 2 years.

Thank you for your honest insight, I printed it out and I will keep it. I wish I found it months ago.

I wish you all the best

Ocean

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-18-2004
In reply to: flyermba
Mon, 03-22-2004 - 8:19am
Raining, you hit the nail on the head. I told the OW that i can't believe i have compromised my integrity. It is one the things i have worked so hard for, which is one of the reasons OW is also attracted to me. I have worked hard to be the perfect husband, father, business manager. These things are so important. Treat people honestly and fairly. I have always believed that a man's word is without question. I have committed to my marriage, my family. Took the vows. And now this situation. I begin to question my morals. So the answer should be clear as to what i should do. But it isn't. We are human after all.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-04-2004
In reply to: flyermba
Mon, 03-22-2004 - 10:04am
The answer *should* be clear what we should do, you're right about that.

The problem lies in that I feel like I've done a good part of the hard work to make myself a good and suitable mate. I feel like I've given, I've listened a long time to women's issues with husbands, my mother's issues with my father and so on. With that information I tried to build a better me.

And I married someone who thought it was terrific, then took it for granted. Is this simply the nature of humanity? Does everyone who is categorically happy and content eventually take it for granted? Is she just as human in forgetting that I have to work at this as I am in needing some kind of appreciation for it?

It should be clear that what I'm doing is counter to what have been the central themes of my life... but at the same time, it's exactly in keeping with who I am to find someone who really wants and needs me, someone who appreciates me and returns the little signs of affection that I have to give out. The fact that it's not an effort for either of us is kind of amazing, especially compared to the work of my M and the R that led to it.

Just in a weird place this morning. Have to say, I'm glad I've found you folks to hear me, even when I'm just sort of babbling like this...

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-17-2004
In reply to: flyermba
Mon, 03-22-2004 - 12:51pm
Raining,

Very interesting.. I must say......and very informing!!!!

I appreciate your honesty and it has made me see things in a different way. I have never asked hmy OM to leave nor would I. However, he does makes comments about leaving which I don't understand. Why would he make make the comments if he has no intentions of leaving??? Especially, if I don't EVER talk about it..

Wondering if you could clear things up for me..thanks for any help...

Cassy ;)

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-04-2004
In reply to: flyermba
Mon, 03-22-2004 - 7:07pm
hmm... well, now I get nervous, trying to interpret or in any way clear up other peoples' meanings. Guess it goes without saying, but still: the reality of your situation and your OM may differ significantly from my musings...

Why would he make remarks about leaving without your asking?

Could be he is trying out the idea for himself. I know that from my experience sometimes it helps me to hear myself express my intentions out loud. Rolling it around in my head doesn't have the same effect as hearing my voice tell my OW I intend to leave. And hearing it over and over starts to make the idea a little less scary and a little more real in terms of possibilities.

It might seem a little silly to take such baby steps, but those baby steps can be kind of important in making life changes. At least they are for me. Not quite a year ago my mind was shrieking, "I can't leave!" Baby steps for a long time has only now put me at, "How can I leave?" Not talking myself into this, just giving my head a chance to consider what my heart already knows.


If you haven't brought up his leaving to be with you, it could also be he's testing the water to see if it's chilly or warm (wink, wink.) Maybe he throws it out there to see if you'll leap into his arms and beg his arrival. Does he know where *you* want your R to go? Maybe he's just checking for response.

Why would he make comments if he has no intentions of leaving? Maybe he *does* have intentions of leaving. Has he really explained what he wants or just sort of thoughtlessly tossed out the idea of leaving his W? Could be he's venting frustration with the situation and little more.

Not to be obvious, but you might consider just asking. Wish I had something more useful to add, but my mind reading skills are on the fritz again... ;)

rain

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-21-2003
In reply to: flyermba
Mon, 03-22-2004 - 11:41pm
Raining,

alot of what you said makes sense, but I have a couple of questions for you.

Please don't take these as harsh as they may come out ok?

As the OW to a MM who has said he can't leave his wife for alot of reasons, why does he continue to see the OW, if he has no intention of going anywhere with the relationship? In the end both parties will feel tremendous hurt.What makes it worth it to him?

As i have learned from my own A and from the posts here, love develops in alot of these A's and no one ever wins.

It just seems to me that the good feelings that come are often overshadowed by bad.

Speaking for myself when my MM said things out loud about leaving or our feelings for each other, it gave me a small glimmer of hope that maybe there was a future together, Which set me up for a broken heart.

I'm sorry if i sound harsh I ended my A today for alot reasons, part of which included the glimmer of hope, which I know I was not meant to take it like that. I guess what I am trying to say is MM need to watch the talking out loud, because it does hurt someone.

Thanks for letting me put in my 2 cents

SB

 Seeburg    

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-04-2004
In reply to: flyermba
Tue, 03-23-2004 - 1:34am
gee, my two cents are almost a quarter now...lol

Once more into the tempest... again, I don't want to ever try to get into the head of someone else. I can only reply from my own experiences.


"As the OW to a MM who has said he can't leave his wife for alot of reasons, why does he continue to see the OW, if he has no intention of going anywhere with the relationship?"


Unfortunately, this sounds very familiar. Your words sound like those of my EMA. It's a little scary but somewhat enlightening to be looking at this from the other side...



If I really thought there was no chance of my relationship with the OW going anywhere I would let her go. It seems the height of selfishness to use someone else just to feel better about yourself if you're sure there is no future. Every relationship is different but for me this EMA is very emotional and intense. "Soul Mate" gets tossed around a lot lately, and I don't know if I believe... but if my OW isn't then they don't exist.

Having said that... I have expressed to the OW how hard it is for me to leave my W. As for why I haven't... well, the truth is that I keep hoping it will get easier somehow. When I'm angry with my W it feels a lot closer to happening; when she's trying, I feel sympathy for her and the dynamic begins to feel like I'm abandoning her. I think it depends a little on how we're raised and our models as children, but the abandonment feeling is extremely hard for me to get over.

It could be that it's just hard for your MM to leave relationships, period. It is for me. I don't think in my 30+ years I've really broken up with more than two or three women, and those were not significant relationships. There were a few LTRs that I should have ended but couldn't. Some of us just don't break up with people. Maybe he was (consciously or not) waiting for you to end it for him.

Like I said, when my W is being the person that disappointed me, the cold person whom I chose to supplement with an EMA... then it's easier to making plans to leave. I'm not proud of the weakness I'm confessing to, I'm just saying that sometimes we fall in love with two people and hope one will make our decision for us, or at least make it easier.

The somewhat ugly truth is that some of us would continue with two Rs for a long time if allowed to. Some 'lower being' part of me wishes my OW would be happy with the time she gets to see me (after work for at least an hour pretty much every day, some weekend evenings, etc.) and the fact that I take care of her in lots of ways. That would spare me having to make any decision at all for a while and thereby keep me from really hurting anyone. But the 'higher being' in me knows that's wrong to want and that I'd be unhappy if I had that.


"Speaking for myself when my MM said things out loud about leaving or our feelings for each other, it gave me a small glimmer of hope that maybe there was a future together, which set me up for a broken heart. "

And I'll confess to similar efforts seeking similar effects, which again, I'm not necessarily proud of. I talk about our future because I believe in it and I want her to believe too. It isn't happening as fast as she'd like... or as fast as I'd like either. I do want her to hope, and I have no intention of breaking her heart... but we all know how the road to hell is paved, don't we?

You're right though about being careful how we say things. I don't ever try to lead either woman into believing anything I don't believe just to resolve tension or keep the fires stoked... but I have to be VERY careful all of the time or I'll slip and give some assurance or promise because I want to ease the pain.

Sorry to hear your A ended differently than you'd hoped. But if you had enough and said so, good for you for being the stronger one.

rain


iVillage Member
Registered: 09-09-2003
In reply to: flyermba
Wed, 03-24-2004 - 2:50pm
You are very right about the glimmer of hope. For a person to say things to you and gets your hopes up, only to be dashed when you finally realize you will never have a future together.

I don't get any declarations of love from MM, and no talk of his leaving his W.

And I do not expect it. Although sometimes I wish more than anything that he would say something so I knew how he truly feels for me.

But on the other hand, what good would it do? Just make me feel miserable or sad that I could never have him, he always makes it sound like things are mostly okay at home and he has no intention of leaving.

I think he seems very careful what he says to me. And I am very careful what I say to him, at least where our feelings are concerned, we are both very cautious.

Up until recently, I was getting kind of obsessed by thoughts of how does he really feel about me? Is he just using me or does he really care about me? But now especially after reading what you wrote I think he wouldn't want to hurt me by giving me any false expectations. And so he doesn't say things to me that would get my hopes up.

And in a way, I respect that. Because I know what to expect most of the time, and have to accept that.

Dusty
xxxx
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-19-2004
In reply to: flyermba
Thu, 03-25-2004 - 5:49pm
Thank you all for your input!

Rain...although I'm the MW, I am in the same situation as you. Actually everything you wrote reminded me of myself. I love my MM but the reality of leaving just doesn't seem "doable." My husband and I don't have any children yet I still cannot see myself leaving for this man. The thought of hurting literally everyone around me puts the pressure on me of being this "ideal" wife, daughter, professional, etc.

I just feel bad because my MM is facing the pressure of having a second child and I don't know what to tell him. I care about his so much and it hurts me to see him suffer as time ticks by (based on his and his wife's age) and he has to make a decision on whether to provide his son with a sibling.

THANKS AGAIN!

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