What rules apply

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-10-2003
What rules apply
13
Wed, 07-23-2003 - 10:45am
I understand my relationship with MM can't be like a relationship with a SM. He can't call me all the time, see me all time, or be a 100% in a relationship with me. But what is reasonable to expect? I feel like I can't expect anything from him. I take what I can get and try to enjoy the happy moments, and make it through the bad without getting too upset.

Do I have a right to get mad at him? I knew from day one the man was married, is it my own fault for getting in a relationship with him. I don't know what's going on with us anymore, or if it's all just me overreacting, and he thinks everything is fine. It feels like I am the only one doing the work. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Shouldn't he be the one trying to keep me happy and with him, not me trying to keep him? Lately I've been trying to end things though, I write him long long emails trying to say that I care for him more than anything and it's not anything he is doing wrong, but just me wanting to end it. And he always responds with the same thing. Basically saying he's sorry I feel neglected and wants me to stick around. But then an hour later things are back the way they were. I'd like to think that if he wanted to stop seeing me he could take one of these letters, say I understand lets stop seeing eachother and move on. But he doesn't, so I hope that means he does care about me more than I seem to think. Cause I don't want to stop seeing him. It's been a year and I still feel amazing when we are together and I would be happy if this kept up for years to come. I think right now I just miss him. I haven't spent any time with him in 3 weeks, we have talked through email quite a bit this past week, but I feel like we haven't seen eachother in forever. And that's what keeps me happy.. just being with him for a moment. Sitting in a car with him, even if we aren't doing anything.

He isn't emotional at all, so if he misses me at all... I sure as hell am not going to hear it from him. He knows I am insecure and always worry about if he still cares, so when all this time goes by and I really get no emotions from him, what does that mean. Does he know that I'm going crazy and he is intentionally not trying to comfort me. Or does he really have no idea we haven't seen eachother in forever and thinks that we are doing great. This is soo frustrating, we haven't had a really good day together in months, I miss him soooo much!

Thanks for listening.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 02-12-2002
Wed, 07-23-2003 - 1:50pm
I think any person is entitled to basic courtesy and communication. What else they are entitled to depends on the situation.

I don't think any MM who's still married and intends to stay that way will ever give a SW what she wants. There are rare instances where the situation meets the wants/needs of both parties, but in terms of the relationship, the MM usually gets the upper hand and gets to set the terms of the relationship. He's *usually* the one with prior commitments of his time, money, affection, and energy. It's an imbalance where the SW usually gets the leftovers.

Your guy has emotions - he's just not sharing them with you. Maybe he's afraid you won't like what he's got to share (maybe not as much interest in keeping the relationshp going), so he doesn't say anything. I think you *do* have a right to be told how he's feeling. But if he doesn't, and you're nothing but frustrated. . . well, it begs the age-old question: are you better with him or without him?

Affairs can be such draining things. It's not worth having if you're not enjoying it the vast majority of the time.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-18-2003
Wed, 07-23-2003 - 2:05pm
Michelle, you have every right to expect whatever it is that you expect! You have a right to feel whatever it is you feel. If you do not like the way your MM treats you, then you need to leave the relationship. A person cannot be judged just by "who they are" or even who they SAY they are. You have to judge the relationship as a whole, and if it does not meet your expecations, whatever those expectations are, then it is not a relationship worth keeping in this short time we are here on this earth.
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2003
Wed, 07-23-2003 - 3:24pm
Michelle...you are a good person. You should be treated like a good person. The problem with dating a married guy is that even his best can't be enough. Do you know what I mean? My mm said beautiful things to me, but they were just words. He still got up and went home to his committed relationship and I waited until he was free to see me. How in the world could he ever have respected me if I was willing to play that game? The lucky stiff. He found in me a person that would run when he called and I would never say anything to ruin his day...the funny thing was he wasn't really interested in my day at all. He complained about his wife spending money or nagging him and now I just think that I was never given the opportuntity to do anything to bother him. I showed up, smiled and treated him like a god. I am sure that if I spent 24 hours a day with him and his kids, I would probably sound just like his wife...oh, I'm sure of it.

Michelle, please put yourself first. Don't let anyone hide you, or put you second. I know it can be wonderful during the fun times, but they aren't real and we know it. Please, take care of yourself and stop trying to keep him happy. He has two women taking care of him, believe me he is happy. Even if he says his wife makes his life a living hell, I would bet that he tells you that to get more benefits from you. They ALL say that, but do they ever leave that hell..nope. And just don't ever cut HER down, because he will defend her everytime. That says alot about his true feelings.

Take care of yourself

X

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 07-23-2003 - 6:42pm
Hi Michelle,

It sounds like you set up a pattern that allows your MM to be passive. You threaten to leave, but you don't... so he doesn't take any threat from you seriously. He has told you he wants you around, but you have not required him to do the work to make sure that happens.

If you can outline some specific things you'd like HIM to do, to show that he wants to spend time with you and you rank *somewhere* in his priorities w/W, kids, dog, car and job, then be explicit. Tell him WHAT he can do to reassure you, make you feel loved, etc. Write him a letter, sit with him while he reads it, if you can. But describe specific things he can do (phone calls, love letters, planning time together on a regular --weekly, biweekly, whatver -- basis where HE does the planning, etc.) If he can't live up to that, or just doesn't want to do the work, then you need to walk. If he thinks your terms are unreasonable, feel free to negotiate but you can't negotiate back to where you are now, because NOW you aren't happy. Whatever you concede, in the end the result still has to satisfy YOU. Because this is all about you right now, not him. And if he wants you in his life, he has to do his part.

When the bad outweighs the good in any R, with any person, it's time to move on. I don't care if it's your lover, your friend or your mother.

Good luck.

-lily

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-24-2003
Wed, 07-23-2003 - 6:56pm
Hi michelle,

Firstly... I have to say that and quote you "I knew from day one the man was married" in saying that you must have know that things would not be all happy and rosey all the time and chances of him leaving his wife might be zero to one too. But still! that does not allow him to expect you to be there when he wants you... and you do have a right to be angry... but he needs to know what your angry with at first. A lot of things are pushed aside in an EMA... like communication... the physical aspect seems to take control. All relationships need communication... you need to make him understand how you feel... your needs and wants and whether he can meet these and whether you can come to an agreement. Any relationship will never work if the parties are heading down two different roads.

Also don't give him the advantage... you threaten to give it all up... but do you??? maybe give him a week to think about things and see where he does fit into it all.

and remember... as Lily said... if the bad outweighs the good... you need to get out! you don't need to be in a relationship that doesn't fullfill your needs... you need to do what will make you happy... no matter hard hard it is to get there.

I hope I haven't rambled to much and made some sense...

luv and hugs

Sweet

Sweet
Co-Community Leader My

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-26-2003
Thu, 07-24-2003 - 12:03am
Michelle,

My heart goes out to you. You have every right to feel whatever you

are feeling. EMA's are not for everyone. As the others have said, if

what you are getting does not outweigh the hardships, move on. For the

mathmatically inclined, my Dad, when he was alive, always said

Benefits / Burdens must be > 1.0, as you measure them.

You are clearly unhappy. It has been said that one definition of

insanity is continuing to do what you have always done, and

expecting some different outcome. Do not be insane. What have you

changed recently in the relationship, and what was the outcome?

Do not be afraid of the answer, it is real life, it is your life.

Never think that this man, however good he is, is the only person in

the world capable of evoking those feelings in you. There are others,

perhaps they will be better. Perhaps they will also be able to share

their emotions as well.

I know it is like stepping off the edge of a cliff. Life is a risk.

Try to find a situation that gives you what you need in a R. Start

today. I know you feel insecure. The best cure for that is success.

Expand your circle of friends. Learn to flirt. Make meeting new people

a personal goal. Start with just one new person a day, a week,

whatever. Start now. Your life is ahead of you.

Hugs...

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-10-2003
Thu, 07-24-2003 - 10:32am
Well here's an update. I've been pretty unhappy lately and yesterday I was so frustrated... I decided to try and talk to MM. MM knows I'm on some "online thing" that I chat about the affair with, and so I told him I was unhappy and such and I sent him my post from yesterday (the 1st one in this discussion) I also told him about a guy I've started seeing.

About 3ish weeks ago I put in a post that I had kinda met a guy... well him and I are still seeing each other. I like him, he is a sweetheart. I haven't talked to MM about him at all and yesterday after sending him my post I also told him that I've been seeing someone and it's making me confused. Do I want to be an OW and be cheating on my boyfriend?? hmmm that's a whole other story. And please don't everyone respond with telling me I should just start seeing the SM and blow off MM. I understand that things with MM and I may need to come to an end. But I also look at us and see the history we have, what we've been through, and all we've done to get this far. Do I just want to end it because maybe he is just being a jerk this month? I'm definitely thinking of ending it, but I'm not giving up so easily, I am giving it another chance before I walk away...

Anyways, so his response to my post: "Well, you apparently know that I am not emotional. I don't know what I want. I like being your friend, I would miss talking to you if you weren't there anymore. You know what my life is like, so I don't know what to tell you. I wish that I did. I think that we have been friends for a long time. That is very valuable to me. I know that you have been seeing someone, and that makes me happy for my friend. It doesn't mean anything to me as far as the other part of our relationship goes, because I cannot become jealous, mad, hurt, or anything. It isn't my place to have any of those feelings. I want you to be happy with your new boyfriend. He sounds like a nice guy from the little bit that you have told me, and it is apparent that you like him a lot, because you wont talk to me about him."

So what do you all think about his response? I don't know how I feel about it. Last night I was happy with myself for trying to talk to him, be honest with him and let him know I was not happy. I am glad I attempted to improve communication skills with us, but I still left work yesterday, not too happy about things with MM and I. Today I was all ready to not talk to him, take a little break and think about things. I read everyone's responses, thank you all, it's great to hear others opinions, you all are so supportive. Somehow between coming to work and wanting to take a break and now, an hour later, I have already talked to him, and he is giving me a ride on lunch to my apt.... (I locked my keys in the car last night, and I'm getting a locksmith to come on lunch) So we will be spending a bit of time together in a few hours... I feel like lunch today is going to make or break us. I can't handle having a bad lunch with him today... if I come back from lunch unhappy I seriously may have to switch over to the ending an A board, but don't you wish we could all go to the "I'm having the world's most perfect A or EMA" board... I know it doesn't exist, but a girl can dream.

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-11-2003
Thu, 07-24-2003 - 12:11pm
Awwww Michelle...I'm so sorry that you are so unhappy. I thought his reply was your standard unemotional reply. It doesn't sound like he is as invested in this relationship as you are. You are clearly not happy, and the more time that you spend with him, the harder it will be to get away from him in the end, and you know it WILL end.

He most likely will continue telling you the things that make you hang on, so it is really up to you to decide if you've had enough. I do want you to know that when I just ended it with my mm, neither one of us seemed too broken up, and we did share wonderful times, and lovely words together. It just confirms my opinion that it wasn't really love for either of us. Yep, it felt great, sounded great, and made me SO happy at times, but it was not real.

Michelle, if you end up on Endings, I will see you over there and help you get through it. YOUR happiness means something to me, I could care less about what your mm is feeling. Take care.

X

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-15-2003
Thu, 07-24-2003 - 2:43pm
wow - Michelle - I ran over to the "ending" board to see if you'd posted there - because I would THINK you'd be back from lunch by now!?!?! Anyway, our situations are VERY similar!!!! Except for the last paragraph of your first post - my MM is pretty intouch with his emotions and is really open to talking and communicating - so much so that he's told me POINT BLANK he can't offer me the things I need. And yet I continue - accepting what he does offer - which is VERY little - it's usually me making it seem like more! :( But I love him and I KNOW what that means... I'd love to talk to you some more because I think we'd have alot incommon - I will check back here again later to see what happened over lunch!!!! ))))))((((((((
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-10-2003
Thu, 07-24-2003 - 2:52pm
Well lunch should be in about 30 minutes. BUT, I am so mad at him right now I told him I don't want him to give me a ride, and F_CK him. I can't stand this! I'm not going to go to the ending board, I am too weak and will put up with him, probably forever! The good times are definalty worth the bad... but right now the bad isn't going away at all. I love him too much to let go. I'm going to try and stop posting the bad... I know everyone thinks I should leave him... but I really don't think I should. Maybe I haven't done a good enough job saying the good parts of our relationship, to try and show why I really think it will work. I'm off to lunch now.... I will say more when I get back.

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