Why did I want to believe him???
Find a Conversation
| Mon, 12-29-2003 - 12:15am |
Just to introduce myself a bit before asking a question, I ended the A 5 years ago was in it for 18 months.He is married to the same woman, I am still married as well.
At the time my M was in very bad shape and I needed a friend and believed he was one, in time I learned he really was not one, I thought he was a nice guy ,guess again right.
I guess time has given me a prespective that is not that common when you are in the A.
The Question I would like answered is : If the MM is cheating on his wife lieing to her, scheeming toget together with the OW and in some cases spending family assets on her how could "I" or anyone else convince are selfs that he is a NICE OR DECENT person.
If it was "MY" or your husband doing this to "ME" are you would we think of him as a nice guy, How about if your sisters husband or your best girlfriends husband was doing it to them?
I do not mean to offend anyone by this question or insult any genuine good men some may be involved with, It is just that I now know a bunch of women in this situation (B/S's) and am wondering now how "I" could have believed all the B**LSH*T he was feeding about his mean/bad/frigid wife etc, I know her now on a personal basis and she really is an ok person that most people posting here would most likly be ok with (NO she does not know about the A).

Pages
I figured if I asked the type of questions I did that I would get some good resposes and yours was one of the best.
I think that love, trust and romantic ideas blind a lot of people to the type of person they are M and it does com as a total shock and a real body blow to them when they find out.
I guess they want the liar/cheater back because he/she is there liar/cheater and they want to believe the person they love cannot be that bad and just made a mistake (and some times it is true).
I know not all people that end up in Affairs are bad people, hell I was in one and I'am great LOL, seriously I know 2 women that are abused emotionaly and one that has been battered that have found some one to help them feel better about them selfs and I do not blame them at all or think them bad people, If I have any grip it is with the one that had to pick a married man who turned out not to be much better then the now XH.
Beleave me I did not post this question to rip anyone after all I live in a glass house.
More to challange people to think and responed.
Nice talking to you.
Free
Free, I applaud you for being very open and candid, even though realizing you would get challenged/criticized for some of your questions and insights. I don’t think you are looking for applause, but you have mine anyway. You appeared to have evolved and learned much from your experience. I’m a bit confused Free. In your initial post, you stated you are still married, but in your last one, you make reference to XH. Are you still married?
I, like Free, also don’t intend to p/o anyone. I acknowledge that some good people have affairs and just because one does not have affairs, it does not necessarily make them a good person. But I have a few questions as well to stimulate discussion. Question 1: Has anyone here ever “lurked” on the Betrayed Spouses (BS)message board to see how the other half feels? The insights of those having affairs vs. those who are betrayed are very stark contrasts. I guess that is why there are different boards out there. Question 2: Has anyone who is having an affair ever been betrayed themselves?
The reasons why I ask these questions is because some people become involved in affairs because their relationships are not really satisfying at home (down right unbearable in many cases), even though everything appears to be fine to outsiders. True, sometimes there are just incompatibility issues. Yes, you do need to walk in someone’s shoes to really know what is going on, and Yes, A’s don’t usually happen over night. While some BS acknowledge problems in the marriage, MANY of the BS honestly feel blind-sided when they learn about the affair. Their spouses led them to believe everything was great in their marriage. As far as the BS could tell, everything was fine. In other words, they felt lead on. Only after the affair was discovered did they learn their spouse was unhappy and felt that they were incompatible, etc. At the risk of sounding judgmental, narrow minded and naïve, as some of you have put it, please further clarify having one’s cake and eating it too. If one chooses to have an affair, but stay in a marriage due to finances, children, security, even love and loyalty to their spouse, isn’t this exactly what having your cake and eating it too is… not wanting to give up certain things or have them effected, but to also have that special someone to give you that special look, feel, attention, etc? While it is somewhat noble to keep one’s vows by not leaving a spouse or children because of an imperfect marriage (and marriage vows do not say marriage is easy), a BS may want to be part of that decision as well. The BS may not want to continue a marriage with someone that is unfaithful…is this one of the reasons most affairs are kept secret as long a possible? I do understand that some people keep their A’s secret due to protecting their spouse, children, etc. but I also think that many keep it a secret because they want to protect themselves. They don’t want their spouse to leave THEM (back to the old cake analogy). Many, not all, BS feel especially angry regarding all the secrecy behind the A because they feel they wasted time in a relationship/marriage, when they could have been free to pursue other things had they known all along their spouse was not faithful.
Some BS still want to be with their spouse regardless of the A. However, my own personal observations have shown me that many BS eventually leave because the trust is gone. They may not leave right away (may take years), and many won’t leave immediately to give the OW or OM the “perceived” satisfaction of breaking up a marriage (even though that may not be the intention of people having affairs with a MM or MW). Many BS stay in the “damaged” marriage, but end up having affairs themselves at some point; not so much for retaliation, but as their way of dealing with a marriage they see as unofficially “nullified”. This is why I asked question #2, to see how many have walked in the shoes of a BS before.
Also, if you have been betrayed in the past, did you feel you did something to drive your spouse or SO to having an affair? Did you feel there were compatibility issues? Was there any effort by either of you to fix your relationship before the affair happened? I just interested in what others have to say.
I do have a reputation for being long winded whenever I have the time :0). Asking a lot of questions is my nature because I am, after all "the pensive one"(LOL). Thanks for sharing what you could. I appreciate that. I agree with some of what you said, but it is really not a matter of me agreeing or not agreeing (not trying to pass judgement), just asking some questions and stimulating a conversation. I suspected there would be no "pat" answers, so I was thankful to get a response from you. And you are right, there are no pat answers. I am just curious as to what is true for various people since everyone's circumstance is different, as you have expressed. Only share what you are willing to share on this anonymous board. Gurl, do you and your boyfriend have an open relationship? Does he know about the OM? Does OM's wife know about you? If not, why not? If it is too complicated to get into or more than what you are willing to share or have time for, I certainly understand. As for others who may be reading the post, your insights are welcome as well if you have the time.
I'm not sure I'll cover all of your questions (so many LOL), but your post was a good one for discussion. So I'll cover what I can remember...
I have read posts on other boards. WRT BS, I have one thing to say - "accountability and responsibility for your own decisions". This goes for anyone but just because a BS believes in someone or wanted to trust every thing they were told, it is still their responsibility to be accountable for their emotional wellbeing...as with the rest of us. Yes, I have been married, been single for a long time now, and my ExH cheated. I knew and understood the reasons why he did, but to this day, his decisions in our relationship were just that - his. The OW were not issues and really didn't matter because he was an adult who made his own decisions. Also, his M was with me and the OW had nothing to do with me. In fact, his current W is a former OW, not only do I like her, I don't believe that their M has anything to do with how they met or that she was an OW. So as far as walking in a BS shoes go, well I have had the same "experience" as some, but I did not "walk in the shoes" of many on the boards because I handled things differently because I viewed them differently. No one is responsible for making another's dreams come true...even if they promise to do so. I don't particularly believe that either board holds more insight than the other, just different viewpoints.
BTW, I am single and involved with a MM. I am not in an unhappy relationship and never cheated when I was married. If I was in a M that wasn't working, I'd leave (like I did) and there are NO reasons for "me" to stay in a dead-end relationship. What other people do is their business though. How MM handles his M and how I would handle one are two different things. I don't need to concern myself with his M any more than I need to concern myself with how he does his job - it's his business.
I don't particularly care if a BS wants to stay with a WS or not, for whatever reason. That is a personal decision based on individual circumstances. But I am a "piss or get off the pot" type of person. If you stay, deal with the betrayal and move on but don't bitch about "others" making it possible for your spouse to cheat. If you leave, live your life and hopefully you will remember some good from the previous relationship and not just carry bitterness from it.
I am not really sure where you are coming from with the cakeman analogy. However, given that people have different relationships, different problems, and different desires, I don't believe that a general term can be applied to all circumstances. I will say that while there are many discussions about "cakemen" wrt sex, that term can also be used for those who don't stray but want Ms for reasons of their own but don't care to make sure that both parties' needs (in any respect) are mutually taken care of. WRT a BS feeling like they wasted their time with someone if that person cheats, well, in "anything" in life, you should weigh the risks/loss as well as the benefits. IF your satisfaction with "your" decisions in life are totally dependent on someone else's actions, perhaps you should think more before you leap. IMHO no one should be more responsible for taking care of "you" than you are.
Happy New Year!
Rose
Thank you for the kind words.
To attempt to answer your questions, The XH was that of a friend of mine who was in a abusive relationship (violent) and she got involved with another jerk for a while.
My spouse had a very abusive mouth for some years which is why I tend to pick on the subject, We are mostly past that point but there are brief periods of backslideing, brief because I have learned to stand up for myself and do'nt take it any more.
I suspect my spouse may have been stepping out on me when visiting family in europe for 4 months but do'nt know for sure, I suspect some of his family may have been behind it, we have invested a lot of money there and with me gone they see themselfs that much closer to getting some of it.
I know people who have been badly hurt by A and yes I have lurked at a B/S site ,it can be pretty hard to take when you see it from there point of view.
People seem to get in to A for different reasons a big one is how they feel about themself ,Perhaps they have added on some weight or gray hair , wrinkles have started whatever and they go into a bit of a crisis and need to feel young and desirable again, others cannot accept that relationships change with time some of the fire can go out of them (the same would happen if they were with the OP 24/7 for 10 years)
Then there are them that are in a really crappy M and are looking to escape it in some degree but do'nt have the means to get out or the guts (SORRY TO SOUND HARSH I DO'NT MEAN IT THAT WAY).
I for one will not start name calling ,but will defend myself if required.
It was nice to here another point of view all are welcome to contribute ideas
FREE
You said that you have a gripe when someone picks a MM who is not better than the ExH. Well most people pick relationships containing qualities they are familiar with...
Talk to you later!
Rose
I was speaking about one case I know about she stepped out on one bas*ard to get used and aboused by the second one. I guess I was not to clear makeing that point as you are the second one to not get what I was saying, sorry.
Liked your last post, It would be nice if all of use could think the way you do ,there would be a lot less grief in the world I have started on that road of being responsable for my own happyness.
Free
I appreciate your insight and the time you took to reply. You are very correct...people should be responsible for their own happiness and well being and not rely on it from others. That is actually something I have quoted many times in the past, believe it or not. No, no one should depend on someone else to make their dreams come true. We are not living in Prince Charming and Snow White times here because we all know true life is not like that. I was inquiring more along the lines of pure and simple openess, with one's spouse, if they were unhappy or contemplating an affair. As absurd as it sounds, has any one out there said to their spouse something along the lines of..."Hey, I am unhappy you are not giving me the x,y, and or z I desire. I am thinking about getting it outside our marriage and I know someone who seems all to willing to give it to me". Sure we can all say that signals were sent to this effect, but has anyone actually told their spouse of their impending affair before the A actually happened? If not, why? Was there fear that if they told their spouse, their spouse would do something rectify the situation, thus making the affair less justifiable? Or was there fear that the spouse may have left the relationship, thus leaving the would be "cheater" to do as they pleased with the OM/OW, but without the security they would have had with their spouse? I guess to cut to the chase and to be blatant about it...Why do most affairs revolve around secrecy? I totally understand that no two relationships are the same and affairs can happen for different reasons and a jillion different circumstances. But why all the effort and trouble to keep the affair a secret from the affected spouse? I know there are probably thousands of reasons for the secrecy such as protection for the children, the spouse, etc. However, these are vague and general response. Like I stated in my response to Gurl, I am just curious as to what is true for various people since everyone's circumstance is different. Rose, your situation is a bit different because you have not cheated while you were married and feel your MM is responsible for his own actions and the way he deals with his wife...you are, to a significant degree, right about this. Like you, I have believed since forever, those who choose to stay with their cheating spouse should not ultimately blame OM or OW for what happened (the issue ultimately lies within the marriage and/or the cheating spouse). Rosie, also, like you, I believe that one could focus on the positive as well, therefore, BS's should not dwell on the fact that their spouse/SO cheated on them, but look at the good times too.
About the cake man/woman analogy...pretty simple...when people want something from their committed relationship and something else from their A, but don't want reveal the whole truth of the matter to one or both parties, that classifies as wanting one's cake and eating it too, or so I thought. Of course there are a multitude of desires, relationships, circumstances, etc. But I suspect behind those multitude of varying circumstances is the cake issue. True, some people in M who choose not to stray are cake people as well. I think this is true for everyone who is involved in a relationship or marriage. Married or SO partners never see eye to eye on EVERYTHING and some level of manipulation is typically always present whether it is to get a spouse to do a chore they don't feel they should have to do, or something more serious. I think most people can expect this sort of thing in a marriage. However, when it comes to A's, then the issue has taken on a whole new level because of the irreversable dynamic of once an A has occurred and all it signifies, or potentially signifies.
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL!!!
Yes, I have questioned many, many times, as has my MM, why we would want to be with someone who is cheating on their S, but, we KNOW why we are cheating on our respective S's and that neither one of us is lying about those reasons.
My MM and I have both asked each other 'how would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot?', and I have responded, 5 years ago, I cared because my H was different then, loving and caring and a better sex drive, now, I honestly dont give a rat's a**. My MM is a jealous person, and despite the fact that he is with me, I know he would be very hurt and very pissed if W did that to him.
Pages