Mixed signals continued

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2011
Mixed signals continued
55
Mon, 10-29-2012 - 12:09pm

So I have been backing off, not bugging for sex, and waiting for my wife to give me a hint to avoid any confusion at all so I don't frustrate myself.  So a last week she told me that "I have been slacking lately."  I asked her what she meant, having a feeling I knew what she meant, but then again, don't want to assume to much, been burned before.  It was in regards to sex, "It's been a while!"  So we had sex, and it wasn't good, because yes it had been a while, and it was pretty much over for me right after it started.  You think she would understand that when we were having sex pretty regulary, during the 50 Shades of Gray period, I was lasting a lot longer, but for some reason this logic eludes her.

So now again I havent said anything in regards to sex.  This past weekend we went out to diner with family and she ordered a dessert, said she wanted to share it with me.  When it came to the table she looked at me and quietly said "I would like you to eat my pie!".  I could not even get excited or turned on, because in the past when I made comments like this she would act like I was disgusting for even saying anything like that.  We go to bed that night and I try to initiate, and you guessed it, I got turned down, she was too tired.

So now yesterday she makes a remark about sitting on my lap to keep me warm for one of my son's sports events, forgot my extra jacket and I decided OK maybe she is being more open / playful after the 50 Shades of Gray period.  I said "How about you sit on my face!", well I didn't get the reaction I was looking for. (laughter or her to say something about later tonight).  I got "You are disgusting, why would you say such a thing?!"  So I said to her "You send so many mixed signals."  She asked what I meant, and I explained about her "eat my pie" comment just the previous night!  What she explained next my jaw almost hit the floor.

Well, I know you don't mind / you like comments like that, so that is why I do it.  I just don't like comments like that said to me.  So if you feel this is sending you mixed signals I will not longer make comments to you like that anymore, so now I get punished on top if it.

I feel everything is a one way street with us in regards to sex.  I cannot say anything, I'm disgusting, I cannot initiate without getting turned down almost every time, I have no say in the frequency of sex, only more frequent when she wants it to be.

I get blamed for not coming to bed early enough, again my fault.  Then when I do come to bed early and try to initate, not now she's watching TV, reading, or now I'm too tired / don't feel like it.

And she wonders why I don't want to come to bed with her and fall asleep on the couch after drinking myself to sleep?

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-31-2005
Thu, 11-15-2012 - 3:45pm
I think an HL considers sex as part of existence, like breathing - it is ongoing and dynamic. For a LL, it is more of a task (many here have used the word "chore"). As such, for an LL to say "not now" is equivalent to saying "I'll do it later", and to them that is a perfectly acceptable answer - just as taking out the garbage later is to me - as long as it is out by the time the truck comes in the morning, who cares what time it hits the curb. So likewise, as long as sex happens before the relationship implodes, everything is OK in the LL's mind. This is a constant in our house. I have no idea how many times DW has said "not now, I have to get some stuff done, how about tomorrow", which then morphs into a 3-or-more-day wait due to things cropping up here and there (as an aside, "getting stuff done" has become a phrase which makes me seethe). HL's see ourselves on the bottom of the priority pile when this happens. To LL's, however, they just see it as something that will eventually get done. The corollary to this is that the hundreds of rejections aren't rejections at all, they are just reschedules - and conveniently ignore the HL mindset that each one of those reschedules was a missed opportunity that will never happen again. To an LL, when it is finally done, it makes up for every rejection since the last time you had sex. I wonder if some of the LL's would care to comment on this.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 09-16-2004
Thu, 11-15-2012 - 3:33pm

71bri, you are getting a lot of reasonable advice but the fact remains that you can't be reasonable with an unreasonable person.  The games she plays and the rampant hypocrisy she practices are not amenable to any of these tactics.  I don't know that anything could work in your situation short of the "nuclear" option of threatening divorce (and intending to follow through if necessary).  But that's hardly an option, is it?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2011
Thu, 11-15-2012 - 2:49pm
Pandy Thanks for the advice Pandy, Just impossible to do, (kids). Glenn "I don't see how asking the question I posed is to any individual's benefit." I didn't either, that is the problem with HLs we really don't see it that way, but some LLs may interpret it that way which just digs us a deeper hole.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2011
Thu, 11-15-2012 - 2:38pm
"71Bri, if there were times you didn't feel like having sex with her, but you did it anyway, that's on you not on her!" I agree with you, never said it was on her. Just showing that just because I had a hard day and I'm exhausted I could still have sex. When you get the I'm tired excuse, time after time after time, it gets a bit old. I'm not expecting her to be like me, but the one thing I'm noticing about some LL's, you expect HLs to be more like you. LLs have the control, and it's the game by your rules. Don't bug her about sex, so I don't. Don't talk to her about sex, ask any questions, so I don't. And then get posts like these? I understand you are trying to help and I try not to take them too personal. It's like getting accused of something I'm not even doing. I don't understand why every time I go to initiate I'm told not now, and I have been respecting that, but when she is ready to go I'm just supposed to drop everything. Here is what I mean. Earlier this week, was out running one of our kids to activities, so right after work 4PM got things together, get the kid to / from the activity and got home after 8 PM, still has a lot of crap to get done. Later probably 10 PMish decided to watch TV, didn't go to bed, next day I get "When did you come to bed last night?" "Well I guess watching TV was more important then coming to bed with me." (Even though I had no indication that she wanted me to come to bed, and no I do not make this crap up.) Which is the kick in the teeth to mean "You could of had sex, but you blew it because you did not come to bed at the right moment" At this point I'm used to this happening, so it no longer bothers me as much as it used to. So now the rest of the week, I have tried to initiate in some way shape or form, but not push or get angry if I get told no, and guess what happened. "I'm watching TV now (now since she wants to watch TV, sex can get put on hold, not even happen),", I'm too tired.". She even came to bed topless one night and when I put my hand on her breast, she said "Don't start something you are not going to finish." Then when she realized that my intention was to finish, she told me that I should just go to sleep, because "You must be exhausted" (again make it my fault somehow), and then it turned into "She was tired too now." I can respect the LL. It's really frustrating when sex is just on her time table or just when she is really in the mood and these mixed signals. "Stop projecting what YOU think and how YOU feel onto her." I didn't think I was doing this, maybe a few years back I was.
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2006
Thu, 11-15-2012 - 1:39pm
71Bri, if there were times you didn't feel like having sex with her, but you did it anyway, that's on you not on her! And you are making the fatal mistake of expecting her to be like you. If you had turned her down there is a very VERY good chance she would not have felt the same way about it you do. Stop projecting what YOU think and how YOU feel onto her. She's not like you. I'd venture to say you married her BECAUSE she wasn't like you in every way. If you keep thinking she'll react and respond like a HL, you are going to keep on being disappointed. And she'll also smell the fact that she's never going to live up to your expectations, which will give her negative motivation to try.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2011
Thu, 11-15-2012 - 1:07pm

Yes I would say Julias response was a bit harsh.

Believe it or not I know I am the man she has been with for 15 + years and all the newness /butterflies, new relationship engery are gone, along with her desire to have passonate sex with me, and that is the part the hurts the most.  I can honestly say I don't have the new relationship energy all the time either, but I do love her and at times that energy does come back for me and I fall in love with her all over again.

Maybe it's because she is a mother of THREE CHILDREN, her brain's consumed with being a mother, with constant neverending requirements that it entails,  and a LL woman is simply not able to make sex a priority over motherhood. Maybe it's about her being overworked and overwhelmed, having a constant neverending list of 100 things to do scrolling through her mind day in day out, and when she gets to bed the very and I mean VERY last thing on her mind are passionate kisses, foreplay, looking into eachother's eyes etc etc. She just wants sleep, rest, to switch off for a few blissful hours only to start it all over again next day. Maybe  your constant questions,  talks, expectations etc etc simply annoy the h*** out of her and require her to extend yet more energy that she doesn't have.

This may be true, but this argument annoys the h*** out of me.  I am also a father of the THREE CHILDREN, my brain is comsumed with being a father.  I know she gets overworked and overwhelmed, but guess what?  So do I.   I'm not just done with work, come home and sit down on the couch and watch TV and expect her to do everything.  Just this past week alone I have had about 20 minutes to myself before I had to go to bed, because I was being a father and husband, talk about a constant neverending list.

But there have been times I have been exhausted and she was horny all the time she was reading 50 Shades of Gray, and even though there were times I felt like telling her, I'm too tired, I know how it is being on the other end, and I could not do it to her.  I would not wish the way I feel on anyone.

My constant questions?!  Have you read the post(s) I have submitted, including this one?

I'll say you are on point with some, even maybe a lot, but your post sounds more like a feminist attack.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-05-2006
Thu, 11-15-2012 - 12:33pm

<< Let's be honest here, the ulterior motive of the question is to make sex more satisfying for the HL (which may involve trying to make sex more satisfying for the LL, but still...). >>

In marriage, with rare exception, the partners are either mutually blessed or they mutually suffer. I don't see how asking the question I posed is to any individual's benefit.

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-01-2012
Thu, 11-15-2012 - 12:29pm

Marriages get like this. My advice is to separate for awhile. Separations can be a good thing, you know. Gives each person a chance to be alone and to wish they could be with the other person. Third parties are often seen then as quite boring, never as interesting, not nearly, as the partner now absent.

Furthermore, you can do things you've wanted to do. If your wife is agreeable, you can go out with other people, just to see what you've alone (or you both) have been missing. If I were you, I'd take this option. Just tell her, "I need lots of space for awhile. During the separation, let's treat it like we're divorced and can date others. To tell you the truth, I want to feel wanted again, I want to feel desired by a woman, and you seem not to understand or even know about this. I want to enjoy life without having to worry constantly about someone else's feelings."

Then do it. Go out and have fun. There is a world of women. Young old middle-aged. See what you've been missing, if anything. Maybe she'll find out how bad to you she's been. Perhaps she'll never find out, and then you'll get a divorce.

I went through this with my husband, who, for a very long time, was a wonderful adventurous, totally loving man. Then we went through a season of hell that lasted six months. Finally, I couldn't stand it; we separated for 6 months. He went out with other women and I went out with whom I chose. We didn't talk about it. I missed him; we got back together, but soon his business problems were coming home again and I asked for a divorce. 

While we hadn't been for a long time, we just became incompatible. I had to face that fact.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-31-2005
Thu, 11-15-2012 - 10:15am

Julia you may be correct (although frankly, the presentation was a tad harsh for my liking).

I read a fascinating article (here) over the weekend that I believe is pertinent to this thread - It doesn't really kick into gear until the second paragraph, so hang in there during the intro. I think it explains a lot.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-24-2003
Thu, 11-15-2012 - 5:21am

'...maybe she does not know what she wants, or is too afraid / ashamed to tell me, or as other LLs have said, maybe nothing is there, and now I'm asking / bugging her about something, trying to get blood out of a stone?'

How about this? Maybe it's because she's essentially a LL woman who's been with one man for 15+ years. All the newness/butterflies in stomach/new r-ship energy went ages and ages ago - and her desire to have passionate sex often went with those things. You're a husband, a mate, a partner, someone she knows and (hopefully) loves but you're most definitely not the new lover she lusts after anymore. Not her fault - just how LL works. Maybe it's because she is a mother of THREE CHILDREN, her brain's consumed with being a mother, with constant neverending requirements that it entails,  and a LL woman is simply not able to make sex a priority over motherhood. Maybe it's about her being overworked and overwhelmed, having a constant neverending list of 100 things to do scrolling through her mind day in day out, and when she gets to bed the very and I mean VERY last thing on her mind are passionate kisses, foreplay, looking into eachother's eyes etc etc. She just wants sleep, rest, to switch off for a few blissful hours only to start it all over again next day. Maybe  your constant questions,  talks, expectations etc etc simply annoy the h*** out of her and require her to extend yet more energy that she doesn't have.

I don't know how to help you. Just sharing my thoughts.