Mixed signals continued

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2011
Mixed signals continued
55
Mon, 10-29-2012 - 12:09pm

So I have been backing off, not bugging for sex, and waiting for my wife to give me a hint to avoid any confusion at all so I don't frustrate myself.  So a last week she told me that "I have been slacking lately."  I asked her what she meant, having a feeling I knew what she meant, but then again, don't want to assume to much, been burned before.  It was in regards to sex, "It's been a while!"  So we had sex, and it wasn't good, because yes it had been a while, and it was pretty much over for me right after it started.  You think she would understand that when we were having sex pretty regulary, during the 50 Shades of Gray period, I was lasting a lot longer, but for some reason this logic eludes her.

So now again I havent said anything in regards to sex.  This past weekend we went out to diner with family and she ordered a dessert, said she wanted to share it with me.  When it came to the table she looked at me and quietly said "I would like you to eat my pie!".  I could not even get excited or turned on, because in the past when I made comments like this she would act like I was disgusting for even saying anything like that.  We go to bed that night and I try to initiate, and you guessed it, I got turned down, she was too tired.

So now yesterday she makes a remark about sitting on my lap to keep me warm for one of my son's sports events, forgot my extra jacket and I decided OK maybe she is being more open / playful after the 50 Shades of Gray period.  I said "How about you sit on my face!", well I didn't get the reaction I was looking for. (laughter or her to say something about later tonight).  I got "You are disgusting, why would you say such a thing?!"  So I said to her "You send so many mixed signals."  She asked what I meant, and I explained about her "eat my pie" comment just the previous night!  What she explained next my jaw almost hit the floor.

Well, I know you don't mind / you like comments like that, so that is why I do it.  I just don't like comments like that said to me.  So if you feel this is sending you mixed signals I will not longer make comments to you like that anymore, so now I get punished on top if it.

I feel everything is a one way street with us in regards to sex.  I cannot say anything, I'm disgusting, I cannot initiate without getting turned down almost every time, I have no say in the frequency of sex, only more frequent when she wants it to be.

I get blamed for not coming to bed early enough, again my fault.  Then when I do come to bed early and try to initate, not now she's watching TV, reading, or now I'm too tired / don't feel like it.

And she wonders why I don't want to come to bed with her and fall asleep on the couch after drinking myself to sleep?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2011
Mon, 11-12-2012 - 1:49pm

I feel for you, Bri.  I can feel your frustration.  I, too, appreciate everyone's posts to you.  They've been enlightening to me as well.  Regarding Miranda's comment to you ("I am going to tell you again, most likely you know as much as she does. If it was simple to figure out, she'd tell you."), I agree that "most likely," your DW is as clueless as you are about what she wants.  However, I also believe that where many women are concerned, they haven't learned to speak up and say what they want.  They expect their partner to read their minds.  And I lose patience with women of a certain age that haven't matured enough to realize that nobody can read our minds, and we need to communicate our wants and needs or be disappointed.  

I do feel like I'm supposed to read her mind.  Prime example was this past weekend, tried to initiate, she turned me down initialy, then after we were talking for bit she said about going over and closing the door, because of the kids.  So I did, and then I started kissing her.  I must say at this point she didn't really seem into it and I almost stopped and was going to, polietly as I could, say forget it.  It felt too much like I was forcing her to have sex, and I don't want her or I to feel like that.  I was doing all the touching, kissing, etc..., and I kept thinking of the inital rejection, so no at this point I'm not even into it.  Ironic.

She started moaning a little more and I felt OK, this may be the lets just get it over with ASAP so she can get to sleep, she's throwing me a bone.  So I took care of her, did what I had to do to give her and orgasm, which I enjoyed, always do, but after she's done, I always get the feeling that OK, she's done, so lets get the show on the road.  So I finished up, probably could have lasted longer, but at this point I feel like I'm on eggshells, as I have posted before, I can't even enjoying it, too worried about her.  So after I was done I think she kind of saw this, and I explained to her that I thought she just wanted to get it over with.  She said, well I was into it, couldn't you tell?  I told her "No, I thought you just wanted it over with."

Said No, then changed her mind.  She then didn't want to kiss, touch, etc.., but she's into it?  I can't read her mind, but if that is how she felt, then I'm even more confused by her body language.

No, and again no.  If not, what are you both waiting for?  I'm afraid that this will cause a worse reaction then asking her to sit you know where.

Avatar for holdingontoit
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-02-2004
Mon, 11-12-2012 - 2:54pm
OK, maybe there is hope. But you have a LONG road to walk. Maybe she is internally conflicted. Maybe she is not comfortable accepting her own sexuality. Maybe she is embarrassed. Maybe she thinks you will think less of her if she acts "wanton". Maybe she thinks God will think less of her if she acts wanton. Maybe she thinks "good girls don't act as if they enjoy sex". Maybe she thinks it is low class to move or make noise. Maybe, to her, any noise or movement comes at such a huge psychological cost she would be astonished to hear that you hardly even notice. Maybe warning signs and loud klaxons and booming gongs are going off inside her head when she opens the door even a tiny crack to allow herself to enjoy sex (Warning! Danger! Go Back!), and she doesn't realize that they are only inside her head and that you can't hear them. Very delicate process to reassure her it is ok if she hears loud noises even if you don't. Very delicate process for to reassure her that it is understandable she might feel hesitant about explicit displays of pleasure or desire. Very delicate process to discuss if there is some way for her to be communicate in a more explicit manner without her feeling fake or ashamed. But the key is for you NOT to expect her to change overnight. You need to reassure her that you guys have a lifetime together to work out a method of communication that feels right for both of you. Reassure her that nothing she says or does during sex will reduce her value in your eyes. And don't trivialize her concern that it might. It isn't ridiculous for her to fear that, even if you cannot imagine feeling that way. Tell her it is OK for her to do something funny or silly. Or loud or spastic. Tell her that anything she does to share the real her is precious to you. And that you won't make fun of her. Or think less of her. No matter what.

When you see it coming, duck!

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-05-2006
Mon, 11-12-2012 - 4:02pm

Do you talk during sex? Even stopping long enough to look in her eyes, smile, and ask, "How are you doing baby?"

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-21-2007
Mon, 11-12-2012 - 7:38pm

  She most likely will never change, you will never quite measure up, and you may never....ever.... be able to adequately satisfy what she want's when she wants. Simple reason? She doesn't know, and never will. She's not willing to look at her own behavior. You can control what goes on inside your head, but lord knows what she's got going on in her melon. Kind of like she holds the bar up... then you get near it and Oooops she raises the bar, then she lowers it... then hides the bar.... all this guessing games is not a healthy relationship. Try counseling... I did... with 5 different therapists over many years.... but it was always fix him, fix him...when the counselor would say well, lets talk about her stuff... it was... oh they don't know what their talking about.... so Bri.... try it, but if she's not willing to invest in it, well if it doesn't change, it's never going to.. so you have to ask if it's worth it to stay with a bouncing ball. It wasn't for me.....

Avatar for xxxs
Community Leader
Registered: 01-25-2010
Tue, 11-13-2012 - 12:09am

  Hi Bri:

     After reading thru the posts it does seem that there is a real communication problem going both ways.  Communication in verbal and non-verbal realms.  Not everybody communicates the same way.  Part is that the playbook is not one but two.  In this culture women are taught that no is the first operant social word.  It is also clear that you prefer verbal sexual communication.Her telling you that she dislikes crude sexual saying directed at her does not mean she is anti-sex but anti that approach.  Even some very sexual women would be offended by crude blunt approach.  She may feel that any expression of affection/intimacy will be misconstrued.  Also she may make innocent statements that you interpret as sexual but to her they are not. The best is at that point ask her meaning. She may not realize the double meaning.  It does not mean that she is not interested in sex. 

    Yes moods do come into play.  A person may not be interested in sex right now but half a hour later may welcome it.  IMO there is a lack of synchronicity.  Non verbal clues may be misread. Your attitude too can do with a tune up.  Reading thru the post to me it seems that you expect to be turned down.  If that is in your non-verbal language then that can be a real problem. 

  "I do feel like I'm supposed to read her mind.  Prime example was this past weekend, tried to initiate, she turned me down initialy, then after we were talking for bit she said about going over and closing the door, because of the kids.  So I did, and then I started kissing her.  I must say at this point she didn't really seem into it and I almost stopped and was going to, polietly as I could, say forget it.  It felt too much like I was forcing her to have sex, and I don't want her or I to feel like that.  I was doing all the touching, kissing, etc..., and I kept thinking of the inital rejection, so no at this point I'm not even into it.  Ironic.  "She started moaning a little more and I felt OK, this may be the lets just get it over with ASAP so she can get to sleep, she's throwing me a bone.  So I took care of her, did what I had to do to give her and orgasm, which I enjoyed, always do, but after she's done, I always get the feeling that OK, she's done, so lets get the show on the road.  So I finished up, probably could have lasted longer, but at this point I feel like I'm on eggshells, as I have posted before, I can't even enjoying it, too worried about her.  So after I was done I think she kind of saw this, and I explained to her that I thought she just wanted to get it over with.  She said, well I was into it, couldn't you tell?  I told her "No, I thought you just wanted it over with."

   There is part of the problem: Passion disconnect.  You are being spectator  rather being in the moment.  That is likely  apparent to her.  Over analyzing can derail passion and it interferes with the enjoyment of the moment.  From what you wrote she did not display the behavior you desired.

   Recall women are programmed to the NO.  It is like a sales call getting to yes is both verbal and none verbal.  If you do not seem to be into it, how is she supposed to feel?  Could it be that she feels that she is on eggshells too?

  What is your dream of the perfect encounter?  In the dream how do you approach her and how does she respond? What would she consider to be the perfect encounter?

chaika

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2011
Tue, 11-13-2012 - 10:12am

Glenn,

Yes I have tried asking her how she is doing, what she would like.  I either get no repsonse, or she tells me to stop asking her, even if I just ask once.

Xxxs,

Yes moods do come into play.  A person may not be interested in sex right now but half a hour later may welcome it. Agreed, and this goes in the opposite direction too.  Example being we are with company / situation where it would be impossible for us to have sex, she'll say or do something to let me know that she is horny, then 20 minutes later when the oppurtunity is there, I get "The mood has past." and the all time mood killer "I'm not buzzed / drunk anymore."  I can only image if I would ever say anything like this to her?!   IMO there is a lack of synchronicity.  Again, I agree with you 100%, I feel we are so out of sync, it's obvious.  Non verbal clues may be misread. Your attitude too can do with a tune up.  Your right, my attitude does suck, wouldn't yours?  It's hard when you keep getting rejected, and the only time you don't is because then she is horny or in the mood for sex.  Reading thru the post to me it seems that you expect to be turned down.  Yeah pretty much, I did a calculation a while back, and concluded that I get shotdown about 70 - 80% of the time It's not like I'm asking every day, twice a day either.  Maybe twice a week for a month, which I don't even do that anymore.   If that is in your non-verbal language then that can be a real problem.  Maybe, but again I don't know what to think anymore.  I back off, and the only time things get better is when she decides they will be.

There is part of the problem: Passion disconnect.  You are being spectator  rather being in the moment.  That is likely apparent to her.  Over analyzing can derail passion and it interferes with the enjoyment of the moment.  From what you wrote she did not display the behavior you desired.  

I agree with this, but it's hard to be / stay in the moment when she doesn't respond, kiss, touch, etc.  I guess maybe I should be like the other guys that I hear other women complain about, as long as they (men) get off, could care less what she wants.  This is one thing that my wife has even complimented me on in the past when one of her friends was complaining to my wife about her husband, she knows I care about her and what she wants.  

If you do not seem to be into it, how is she supposed to feel?  Could it be that she feels that she is on eggshells too?  Again I agree, but again this goes along with my previous statement, after foreplay with her for a while and it's only 1 sided, I guarrantee you are going to be less and less into it too.  Its like a death spiral on both of our parts.

What is your dream of the perfect encounter?  To come home to just her and a empty house, and slowly let one thing lead into the other, make out for a while, slowly undress each other, massage each other with oil, take a shower / bath together, etc. In the dream how do you approach her and how does she respond? Look deeply into her eyes, put my hands on her sholders, slide them up to her face, and then start kissing her, and she responds.  What would she consider to be the perfect encounter?  Don't know because she won't tell me, and I have learned from these boards LLs not to bother asking, if she doesn't want to tell me, she won't, maybe she doesn't think about it or does not even know.


iVillage Member
Registered: 01-30-2012
Tue, 11-13-2012 - 10:35am

She sounds like a prude. Did you marry a prude? Or did she suddenly morph into one? So many men complaining about lack of sex with their SO's. How does this happen? If you like a lot of great sex, why marry someone who won't provide that for you and enjoy it with you? I am a woman and I don't understand this - was I born with different parts or something? Is sex not frickin amazing? At what point does a woman suddenly decide sex is an obligation, a burden or a weapon? I resent her and I don't even know her, lol. This is why I've decided not to get married until I'm well into my 50's. I think the whole marriage thing might be a big conspiracy on the part of pharmacutical companies - specifically those providing anti-depressants, lmao. I mean, in all seriousness, sex is an animalistic act. Yes, it's beautiful. But beautiful like thunder, blizzards, not daisies and daffodils. "I'll only have sex with you if...you beg me for it, serenade me, wear a skirt". I thought the Victorian era had passed. And I fail to understand how emasculating your husband or BF can be good in any way. Men love sex. If you're a woman who doesn't, spare these poor guys and instead, start a club of like-minded women who sit around all day and complain about all the "disgusting" men out there. That sounds like fun.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2011
Tue, 11-13-2012 - 11:40am

She sounds like a prude. Did you marry a prude? Or did she suddenly morph into one?

She seemed to morph into one around the time after our 3rd child was born, and it has gotten progressively worse since.  We have been married for 15+ years, she has always been reserved when it came to sex, but got a lot better when we were dating and the first 10 + years of marriage.

So many men complaining about lack of sex with their SO's. How does this happen?  There are quite a few men compalining about this, but it does go the other way too on these boards with women complaining about men.  There are also people who are LL and turn to HL, and HL that go to LL.

I agree with you view on sex, but if you read enough of these posts you start to see and understand the other side (LL).

"start a club of like-minded women who sit around all day and complain about all the "disgusting" men out there. That sounds like fun."  This might be part of my wife's issue too.  Historically on her side of the family the women do not have luck in regards to their SOs / men.  All are divoriced and remarried, some even mutiple times.  When we were dating, during Holidays I could hear them man bashing out in the kitchen.  My wife's mother and father also do no have a healthy relationship, and I'm wondering if this has started to rear it's ugly head.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-21-2003
Tue, 11-13-2012 - 11:45am

< Is sex not amazing? >

The short answer (and also the long answer): No, sex is not amazing for all women at all times. If it were, ML wouldn't exist.

F.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-05-2006
Tue, 11-13-2012 - 12:41pm

<< Yes I have tried asking her how she is doing, what she would like.  I either get no repsonse, or she tells me to stop asking her, even if I just ask once. >>

Are you asking for her benefit, equal to your own? If so, you can remind her that it is out of concern for her that you are asking. Does she not want you to take her good into consideration?