Mixed signals continued

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2011
Mixed signals continued
55
Mon, 10-29-2012 - 12:09pm

So I have been backing off, not bugging for sex, and waiting for my wife to give me a hint to avoid any confusion at all so I don't frustrate myself.  So a last week she told me that "I have been slacking lately."  I asked her what she meant, having a feeling I knew what she meant, but then again, don't want to assume to much, been burned before.  It was in regards to sex, "It's been a while!"  So we had sex, and it wasn't good, because yes it had been a while, and it was pretty much over for me right after it started.  You think she would understand that when we were having sex pretty regulary, during the 50 Shades of Gray period, I was lasting a lot longer, but for some reason this logic eludes her.

So now again I havent said anything in regards to sex.  This past weekend we went out to diner with family and she ordered a dessert, said she wanted to share it with me.  When it came to the table she looked at me and quietly said "I would like you to eat my pie!".  I could not even get excited or turned on, because in the past when I made comments like this she would act like I was disgusting for even saying anything like that.  We go to bed that night and I try to initiate, and you guessed it, I got turned down, she was too tired.

So now yesterday she makes a remark about sitting on my lap to keep me warm for one of my son's sports events, forgot my extra jacket and I decided OK maybe she is being more open / playful after the 50 Shades of Gray period.  I said "How about you sit on my face!", well I didn't get the reaction I was looking for. (laughter or her to say something about later tonight).  I got "You are disgusting, why would you say such a thing?!"  So I said to her "You send so many mixed signals."  She asked what I meant, and I explained about her "eat my pie" comment just the previous night!  What she explained next my jaw almost hit the floor.

Well, I know you don't mind / you like comments like that, so that is why I do it.  I just don't like comments like that said to me.  So if you feel this is sending you mixed signals I will not longer make comments to you like that anymore, so now I get punished on top if it.

I feel everything is a one way street with us in regards to sex.  I cannot say anything, I'm disgusting, I cannot initiate without getting turned down almost every time, I have no say in the frequency of sex, only more frequent when she wants it to be.

I get blamed for not coming to bed early enough, again my fault.  Then when I do come to bed early and try to initate, not now she's watching TV, reading, or now I'm too tired / don't feel like it.

And she wonders why I don't want to come to bed with her and fall asleep on the couch after drinking myself to sleep?

Avatar for xxxs
Community Leader
Registered: 01-25-2010
Tue, 11-13-2012 - 12:09am

  Hi Bri:

     After reading thru the posts it does seem that there is a real communication problem going both ways.  Communication in verbal and non-verbal realms.  Not everybody communicates the same way.  Part is that the playbook is not one but two.  In this culture women are taught that no is the first operant social word.  It is also clear that you prefer verbal sexual communication.Her telling you that she dislikes crude sexual saying directed at her does not mean she is anti-sex but anti that approach.  Even some very sexual women would be offended by crude blunt approach.  She may feel that any expression of affection/intimacy will be misconstrued.  Also she may make innocent statements that you interpret as sexual but to her they are not. The best is at that point ask her meaning. She may not realize the double meaning.  It does not mean that she is not interested in sex. 

    Yes moods do come into play.  A person may not be interested in sex right now but half a hour later may welcome it.  IMO there is a lack of synchronicity.  Non verbal clues may be misread. Your attitude too can do with a tune up.  Reading thru the post to me it seems that you expect to be turned down.  If that is in your non-verbal language then that can be a real problem. 

  "I do feel like I'm supposed to read her mind.  Prime example was this past weekend, tried to initiate, she turned me down initialy, then after we were talking for bit she said about going over and closing the door, because of the kids.  So I did, and then I started kissing her.  I must say at this point she didn't really seem into it and I almost stopped and was going to, polietly as I could, say forget it.  It felt too much like I was forcing her to have sex, and I don't want her or I to feel like that.  I was doing all the touching, kissing, etc..., and I kept thinking of the inital rejection, so no at this point I'm not even into it.  Ironic.  "She started moaning a little more and I felt OK, this may be the lets just get it over with ASAP so she can get to sleep, she's throwing me a bone.  So I took care of her, did what I had to do to give her and orgasm, which I enjoyed, always do, but after she's done, I always get the feeling that OK, she's done, so lets get the show on the road.  So I finished up, probably could have lasted longer, but at this point I feel like I'm on eggshells, as I have posted before, I can't even enjoying it, too worried about her.  So after I was done I think she kind of saw this, and I explained to her that I thought she just wanted to get it over with.  She said, well I was into it, couldn't you tell?  I told her "No, I thought you just wanted it over with."

   There is part of the problem: Passion disconnect.  You are being spectator  rather being in the moment.  That is likely  apparent to her.  Over analyzing can derail passion and it interferes with the enjoyment of the moment.  From what you wrote she did not display the behavior you desired.

   Recall women are programmed to the NO.  It is like a sales call getting to yes is both verbal and none verbal.  If you do not seem to be into it, how is she supposed to feel?  Could it be that she feels that she is on eggshells too?

  What is your dream of the perfect encounter?  In the dream how do you approach her and how does she respond? What would she consider to be the perfect encounter?

chaika

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-21-2007
Mon, 11-12-2012 - 7:38pm

  She most likely will never change, you will never quite measure up, and you may never....ever.... be able to adequately satisfy what she want's when she wants. Simple reason? She doesn't know, and never will. She's not willing to look at her own behavior. You can control what goes on inside your head, but lord knows what she's got going on in her melon. Kind of like she holds the bar up... then you get near it and Oooops she raises the bar, then she lowers it... then hides the bar.... all this guessing games is not a healthy relationship. Try counseling... I did... with 5 different therapists over many years.... but it was always fix him, fix him...when the counselor would say well, lets talk about her stuff... it was... oh they don't know what their talking about.... so Bri.... try it, but if she's not willing to invest in it, well if it doesn't change, it's never going to.. so you have to ask if it's worth it to stay with a bouncing ball. It wasn't for me.....

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-05-2006
Mon, 11-12-2012 - 4:02pm

Do you talk during sex? Even stopping long enough to look in her eyes, smile, and ask, "How are you doing baby?"

Avatar for holdingontoit
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-02-2004
Mon, 11-12-2012 - 2:54pm
OK, maybe there is hope. But you have a LONG road to walk. Maybe she is internally conflicted. Maybe she is not comfortable accepting her own sexuality. Maybe she is embarrassed. Maybe she thinks you will think less of her if she acts "wanton". Maybe she thinks God will think less of her if she acts wanton. Maybe she thinks "good girls don't act as if they enjoy sex". Maybe she thinks it is low class to move or make noise. Maybe, to her, any noise or movement comes at such a huge psychological cost she would be astonished to hear that you hardly even notice. Maybe warning signs and loud klaxons and booming gongs are going off inside her head when she opens the door even a tiny crack to allow herself to enjoy sex (Warning! Danger! Go Back!), and she doesn't realize that they are only inside her head and that you can't hear them. Very delicate process to reassure her it is ok if she hears loud noises even if you don't. Very delicate process for to reassure her that it is understandable she might feel hesitant about explicit displays of pleasure or desire. Very delicate process to discuss if there is some way for her to be communicate in a more explicit manner without her feeling fake or ashamed. But the key is for you NOT to expect her to change overnight. You need to reassure her that you guys have a lifetime together to work out a method of communication that feels right for both of you. Reassure her that nothing she says or does during sex will reduce her value in your eyes. And don't trivialize her concern that it might. It isn't ridiculous for her to fear that, even if you cannot imagine feeling that way. Tell her it is OK for her to do something funny or silly. Or loud or spastic. Tell her that anything she does to share the real her is precious to you. And that you won't make fun of her. Or think less of her. No matter what.

When you see it coming, duck!

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2011
Mon, 11-12-2012 - 1:49pm

I feel for you, Bri.  I can feel your frustration.  I, too, appreciate everyone's posts to you.  They've been enlightening to me as well.  Regarding Miranda's comment to you ("I am going to tell you again, most likely you know as much as she does. If it was simple to figure out, she'd tell you."), I agree that "most likely," your DW is as clueless as you are about what she wants.  However, I also believe that where many women are concerned, they haven't learned to speak up and say what they want.  They expect their partner to read their minds.  And I lose patience with women of a certain age that haven't matured enough to realize that nobody can read our minds, and we need to communicate our wants and needs or be disappointed.  

I do feel like I'm supposed to read her mind.  Prime example was this past weekend, tried to initiate, she turned me down initialy, then after we were talking for bit she said about going over and closing the door, because of the kids.  So I did, and then I started kissing her.  I must say at this point she didn't really seem into it and I almost stopped and was going to, polietly as I could, say forget it.  It felt too much like I was forcing her to have sex, and I don't want her or I to feel like that.  I was doing all the touching, kissing, etc..., and I kept thinking of the inital rejection, so no at this point I'm not even into it.  Ironic.

She started moaning a little more and I felt OK, this may be the lets just get it over with ASAP so she can get to sleep, she's throwing me a bone.  So I took care of her, did what I had to do to give her and orgasm, which I enjoyed, always do, but after she's done, I always get the feeling that OK, she's done, so lets get the show on the road.  So I finished up, probably could have lasted longer, but at this point I feel like I'm on eggshells, as I have posted before, I can't even enjoying it, too worried about her.  So after I was done I think she kind of saw this, and I explained to her that I thought she just wanted to get it over with.  She said, well I was into it, couldn't you tell?  I told her "No, I thought you just wanted it over with."

Said No, then changed her mind.  She then didn't want to kiss, touch, etc.., but she's into it?  I can't read her mind, but if that is how she felt, then I'm even more confused by her body language.

No, and again no.  If not, what are you both waiting for?  I'm afraid that this will cause a worse reaction then asking her to sit you know where.

Avatar for holdingontoit
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-02-2004
Mon, 11-12-2012 - 9:56am
Thanks T_G, but I would not describe my post as defending his wife. At least, that is not what I am trying to do. I am trying to throw cold water on any hope in Bri that he can obtain the result he most wants. He keeps thinking that if he only learned how to ask in the correct manner, he can elicit the response he wants. I am trying to explain why it is very likely that there is NO WAY he an get the answer he wants. So instead of searching for better ways to ask her the question "how can I make you more horny for me?" he can switch to asking himself the question "can I live with her if she never becomes horny for me?" Because I don't think she ever will be. And if that is a "hill to die on" for him, then I want him to leave her and move on sooner rather than later. But yes, it is only though this board and what I have learned about LLs that I can describe what is likely going on in her mind and why it is so unlikely that she will ever be as horny for Bri as he wishes she was.

When you see it coming, duck!

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-31-2009
Sun, 11-11-2012 - 6:14am

I feel for you, Bri.  I can feel your frustration.  I, too, appreciate everyone's posts to you.  They've been enlightening to me as well.  Regarding Miranda's comment to you ("I am going to tell you again, most likely you know as much as she does. If it was simple to figure out, she'd tell you."), I agree that "most likely," your DW is as clueless as you are about what she wants.  However, I also believe that where many women are concerned, they haven't learned to speak up and say what they want.  They expect their partner to read their minds.  And I lose patience with women of a certain age that haven't matured enough to realize that nobody can read our minds, and we need to communicate our wants and needs or be disappointed.  Has your DW gone to any kind of counseling? Have you? If not, what are you both waiting for?

I must admit to being somewhat shocked that Hold came on so strong in defense of your LL wife, but I was also most impressed by how much he's learned through this board about LLs and by how much he's able to empathize with them.  I think he's given you some excellent advice.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-03-2011
Fri, 11-09-2012 - 6:56pm

Everyone is giving you their opinion on what is going on with your wife but the only way you can be sure about what is going on with her is if she tells you.  You don't know if it's hormones or a personality disorder.  Sounds mostly like an issue with coomunication.  If she thought that it was okay for her to talk to you dirty but not okay for you to reciprocate she should have had that discussion with you beforehand.  I don't see anything wrong with her coming out telling you her likes and dislikes even if they change with the weather.  Most men don't like to be told they are doing something wrong in bed and if you are open to hearing it she should feel herself  to be one of the lucky ones.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-03-2011
Fri, 11-09-2012 - 6:56pm

Everyone is giving you their opinion on what is going on with your wife but the only way you can be sure about what is going on with her is if she tells you.  You don't know if it's hormones or a personality disorder.  Sounds mostly like an issue with coomunication.  If she thought that it was okay for her to talk to you dirty but not okay for you to reciprocate she should have had that discussion with you beforehand.  I don't see anything wrong with her coming out telling you her likes and dislikes even if they change with the weather.  Most men don't like to be told they are doing something wrong in bed and if you are open to hearing it she should feel herself  to be one of the lucky ones.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2011
Thu, 11-08-2012 - 6:57pm
To really tell you guys the truth, I really don't know what to think anymore. It's strange, I never thought at this age I would feel this clueless in this area. I really do appreciate your posts.