Mixed signals continued

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2011
Mixed signals continued
55
Mon, 10-29-2012 - 12:09pm

So I have been backing off, not bugging for sex, and waiting for my wife to give me a hint to avoid any confusion at all so I don't frustrate myself.  So a last week she told me that "I have been slacking lately."  I asked her what she meant, having a feeling I knew what she meant, but then again, don't want to assume to much, been burned before.  It was in regards to sex, "It's been a while!"  So we had sex, and it wasn't good, because yes it had been a while, and it was pretty much over for me right after it started.  You think she would understand that when we were having sex pretty regulary, during the 50 Shades of Gray period, I was lasting a lot longer, but for some reason this logic eludes her.

So now again I havent said anything in regards to sex.  This past weekend we went out to diner with family and she ordered a dessert, said she wanted to share it with me.  When it came to the table she looked at me and quietly said "I would like you to eat my pie!".  I could not even get excited or turned on, because in the past when I made comments like this she would act like I was disgusting for even saying anything like that.  We go to bed that night and I try to initiate, and you guessed it, I got turned down, she was too tired.

So now yesterday she makes a remark about sitting on my lap to keep me warm for one of my son's sports events, forgot my extra jacket and I decided OK maybe she is being more open / playful after the 50 Shades of Gray period.  I said "How about you sit on my face!", well I didn't get the reaction I was looking for. (laughter or her to say something about later tonight).  I got "You are disgusting, why would you say such a thing?!"  So I said to her "You send so many mixed signals."  She asked what I meant, and I explained about her "eat my pie" comment just the previous night!  What she explained next my jaw almost hit the floor.

Well, I know you don't mind / you like comments like that, so that is why I do it.  I just don't like comments like that said to me.  So if you feel this is sending you mixed signals I will not longer make comments to you like that anymore, so now I get punished on top if it.

I feel everything is a one way street with us in regards to sex.  I cannot say anything, I'm disgusting, I cannot initiate without getting turned down almost every time, I have no say in the frequency of sex, only more frequent when she wants it to be.

I get blamed for not coming to bed early enough, again my fault.  Then when I do come to bed early and try to initate, not now she's watching TV, reading, or now I'm too tired / don't feel like it.

And she wonders why I don't want to come to bed with her and fall asleep on the couch after drinking myself to sleep?

Avatar for holdingontoit
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-02-2004
Thu, 11-08-2012 - 4:12pm

I don't keep asking or harrassing her about more details,  I'm asking for more clarification. 

You are fooling yourself if you think she feels a difference between "asking for clarification" and harrassing her.  Every time you ask, no matter how gently, it feels like harassment to her.  Not fair.  Just is.

Which may be the same reason your DH wanted more and more detail, just to make sure that you were on the same page. 

There is a hidden assumption behind this: that it is possible for the 2 of you to get on the "same page" sexually.  If you started from the assumption that you will never be on the same page sexually, you might find it easier to get her to share her truth with you.  On the other hand, if she feels that never getting onto the same page means that the relationship will never "work" for you, then it won't be easy to convince her that it is in her interest to admit how far apart your pages are.

And even if he was looking for the holy grail of the HL sexuality in you, what is wrong with that? 

Because maybe it doesn't exist?  Because maybe your continuing to search for it causes her to feel ugly, inadequate, and mismatched with you?  Because looking for something long after she has told you it doesn't exist displays disregard for her thoughts and feelings?

I can tell you from a HL side, he may not be doing it because he wants to just get laid (what I hear from the wife sometimes), he loves you and HLs express it more through sex.

So what?  OK, you feel emotional bonding through sex.  She doesn't.  Does that mean she is supposed to consent more often?  Simply because it provides you with so much emotional payoff?  What if consenting costs her psychologically far more than the emotional benefit you derive?  Have you considered that might be possible?

I can tell you from experience, it's like getting teased, and not in a good way.  She gives me a little bit to go on, I try to figure it out on my own, because just as you said, I know if I keeps asking for more detail it is not going to help me. 

You seem to be operating on the assumption that there is some secret hidden sexuality inside her that she is refusing to share with you.  What if it simply isn't there?  A while ago we had a long discussion of the "yellow crayon".  You keep reaching into her box of crayons and asking to borrow the yellow one.  She keeps offering you red and orange and green and blue.  And you keep saying "great, thanks, but I prefer the yellow one".  What if she doesn't have a yellow one?  Is there any point at which you will stop asking for the yellow one?  How far does she have to go to open the box and turn it upside down and spill out all the crayons before you accept the reality that there is no yellow crayon in her box?

I know you don't want to accept that, if accepting it means you feel compelled to leave her.  But your wishing for it will not make the yellow crayon magically appear in her box if it isn't already there.

Then when I'm wrong, which is 80% of the time, I'm a disgusting POS.  It's a no win situation.

This is likely the case.  Very good chance it IS a no win situation.  For both of you.  So where does that leave you?  Are you going to keep pushing and pushing her top produce a yellow crayon until she hates you?  Are you going to leave?  Or are you willing to accept you'll never be able to draw with her yellow crayon, and learn to make beautiful pictures on other shades?

Not saying that in judgement.  I have chosen to stay and to push and to rail against the heavens that my wife doesn't have a yellow crayon to offer me.  Not going to deny your right to do the same.  Simply going to suggest that if you do so, you will likely end up as miserable and resentful as I am.  Your choice.

When you see it coming, duck!

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2006
Thu, 11-08-2012 - 10:40am
71Bri, I am going to tell you again, most likely you know as much as she does. If it was simple to figure out, she'd tell you. Fact is it isn't. And when you get it wrong she's as angry at herself as at anything else. Well, excepting for the crude parts, cause well, that just irritates. But in the bedroom she's feeling frustrated, and inadequate and confused too.
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2011
Thu, 11-08-2012 - 9:37am

"My DH wanted more and more with every detail I learned and revealed about myself sexually to him. He was looking for the holy grail of the HL sexuality in me. And that was so off putting, I shut down everytime he probed."

I don't keep asking or harrassing her about more details,  I'm asking for more clarification.  Which may be the same reason your DH wanted more and more detail, just to make sure that you were on the same page. 

And even if he was looking for the holy grail of the HL sexuality in you, what is wrong with that?  I can tell you from a HL side, he may not be doing it because he wants to just get laid (what I hear from the wife sometimes), he loves you and HLs express it more through sex.

I can tell you from experience, it's like getting teased, and not in a good way.  She gives me a little bit to go on, I try to figure it out on my own, because just as you said, I know if I keeps asking for more detail it is not going to help me.  Then when I'm wrong, which is 80% of the time, I'm a disgusting POS.  It's a no win situation.

I'm just supposed to know somehow?

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-11-2012
Thu, 11-08-2012 - 1:20am
Exactly Hold, this is my experience exactly. Especially since I was inexperienced with my hubby before I met him. Everything I experience was with him, I had to build that trust. If an LL does not have that trust, then you can forget them revealing things to the HL. My DH wanted more and more with every detail I learned and revealed about myself sexually to him. He was looking for the holy grail of the HL sexuality in me. And that was so off putting, I shut down everytime he probed.
Avatar for holdingontoit
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-02-2004
Wed, 11-07-2012 - 3:57pm

>>>>> I just feel like she can be her, but I can't be me, and it's damn depressing. <<<<<

Yes, it is depressing.  And may never change.  Which is also depressing.

But remember what Miranda says. You may think your wife is free to be herself, because you are prepared to accept whatever she brings you, as long as she brings it to you. But inside her own head, she does not feel free to share with you. Because she fears it will not be "enough". Or that it will be used against her. Or that you will complain when it changes "too often". If you were truly OK with her sharing her true sexuality. No matter how rare or changeable it is. Then she would probably feel safer sharing it with you. But it is precisely because her true sexuality likely is not "enough" or consistent enough for you that you have ML in the first place.

When you see it coming, duck!

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-11-2011
Tue, 11-06-2012 - 2:09pm
Marandarr8, Thanks, I mostly understand what you are saying. When she tells me she likes something I don't try to keep doing it. 1. I know it will get boring for her, and it will probably turn into something she does not like anymore. 2. Try to mix it up a little so it's not the same routine each time, kind of like my first point. I don't mind if she changes her mind, but then communicate that to me. It's like she just expects me to know what she is or is not in the mood for. When I tell her what I would like, being subtle, most of the time get rejected, ignored, or "Well that ain't going to happen." I just feel like she can be her, but I can't be me, and it's damn depressing.
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2006
Tue, 11-06-2012 - 1:37pm
Bri, I see part of your problem. It isn't going to help much, but I can tell you from my experience that I don't disclose what I like and what I don't like because of two things intertwined together. 1. I don't always like what I like. I know, it's just plain old crazy, which is why I don't try to explain to my DH. Sometimes something feels really great, and then the next time it will be painful, or a turn off, or irritating or in-effective or whatever. Don't ask me why. I blame hormones. 2. If I tell him something I like it almost always comes back to bite me in butt. Either he does it too much, or expects it to work like a switch (flick, turned on, done!) or he does it and gets irritated that it doesn't work because of #1, which equals pressure to perform for me. If your wife is like me, believe me, it's degrading on this end too. Why doesn't ANYTHING work reliably?? Why does everything turn into a pressure fest? Why is my sexuality so damn complicated and elusive? We'll never know the answer. And it's damn depressing
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2006
Tue, 11-06-2012 - 9:23am
TG, I am with you. I am not a prude, but I would not have had a favorable reaction to "how about you sit on my face" at a public event. Actually that is not an activity or a position I enjoy and being offered that in such a crude way wouldn't get my DH anywhere. However I would not have called him "disgusting" I'd have just rolled my eyes and said "nevermind." I know how he is after all these years (crude and horny and totally without an internal filter) so I can't really be surprised or disgusted by him any more. As to the situation with her making comments because she knows he enjoys it, I can see that too, but I would not engage in it. I always try to model the behavior I want to see, so I wouldn't be "stooping to that level" any time soon.
Avatar for holdingontoit
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-02-2004
Tue, 10-30-2012 - 1:37pm

Thanks for the concern Miranda. As far as the hurricane goes, we were incredibly fortunate. But as for ML, I am no longer a good person. Gave that up years ago when I chose to follow the dark side. I am not making the best of it. Far from it. I work hard to ensure that it does not get better. I was a good person back when I was merely ignorant. Now that I know, and I do what I do despite knowing, I bear the blame for where we are. I should have left. It would have been the merciful thing to do. For both of us. But I stayed. Because I enjoy being a martyr. And I have not allowed to cost to myself or my kids or Mrs. Hold to deter me. No not good. Bad. Very bad.

Bri, please get out before you become bitter and cynical and vengeful like me.  Don't allow this situation to cripple you as it has me.  You do NOT want to end up where I am.

When you see it coming, duck!

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2006
Tue, 10-30-2012 - 11:53am
Hold...you are NOT a stupid person. You are a GOOD person caught in a lousy situation. You are making the best you can of it. And also, glad to see you are not buried under the horrible storm. I was thinking of you last night, wondering if you were okay...