Please say it's not so....

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-10-2009
Please say it's not so....
78
Tue, 09-21-2010 - 7:34am

Doing some internet research on ML recently, I came across some sites with comments by almost exclusively women posters (e.g. pregnancy and young-kids boards), mainly LL in an ML context, that set me back and shocked me.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 02-03-2009
Tue, 09-21-2010 - 8:07am
...while I absolutely believe their are divisive attitudes on both sides of the gender aisles; it is not one sided, it just may not have to do with just sex...I agree with you...but, you aren't really shocked, right?...this is the stuff of pop culture, period...even if you don't watch television, short of living under a rock, it's prevalent...now, to be sure, you and me live in two different cultures, but I've lived in Europe for 9 years of my life and the same threads of gender bashing from both sides exist...having said that, my walking group (now consists of women from the early 40s to the mid 60s) have more than a few members that also feel their husbands are ignorant, devoid of deserving respect, and are expendable if only the walking group members could find a way to make up for the loss of income they will suffer should they divorce (I have a weird curiosity...does the same attitude exist in a two-income family?)...I will say this...how much of this posturing is 'group thinking' and fear of showing an individuality?...quite a bit...
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-01-2008
Tue, 09-21-2010 - 8:15am

I just visited a forum for mothers, where the topic was sex during your period. Some found it disgusting or were too tired/had too much pain to have intercourse. Some were too moody/depressed during that time to engage in sex. Others were all for intercourse or for giving their partner a blow job/hand job. Many joked that they called it "blow job week".
Then there were an odd couple of answers which said something like: "I take a well-deserved break then." or "I am happy when my period arrives and I can stop having sex for a week."

This surprised and shocked one of the others so much, they started a new topic asking WHY someone would be happy to go without sex with their partner for a week. Many others chimed in that this was a peculiar attitude. The two-three women who had made the, to that forum, shocking comments did not respond again.

Seemed to me that 98 % of the women were happy to have sex with their partner or give their partner what they needed.

These are younger women, though, from 18-35. Perhaps times are changing?

I certainly get the sense that it is considered cool for women my age (28) to be enthusiastic about sex. The opposite is frowned upon.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-03-2009
Tue, 09-21-2010 - 8:22am
...my husband wants me to add that it is not politically correct among women in their 30s, 40s, and 50s (the ages in our immediate peer group) to be concerned with any sort of a husband's needs...it almost seems that any sort of nurturing behavior/feelings toward a husband automatically takes one's intelligence level down while spending hours and hours and dollars and dollars planning and hosting the perfect first birthday party is seen as evidence of being a "real woman"...(he should have written this himself...)...oh, when socializing with the women married to his friends (my husband's...they are in their mid to late 60s...one is in his early 70s...wives are the same ages)...it's not as politically incorrect and doesn't seem to reflect on my intelligence level as much...all of these women were career women who raised families and nurtured their husbands...their all on their first marriages and seem to enjoy each other...the next time I am with them as a group I am going to ask the women if they every indulged in the "men are useless and meant to ignore/degrade" talk...they are (the wives of my husband's friends) are the first of the women to really hit higher education and the work fields (baby boomers)...it will be interesting...I do remember one of these women told me that if she had it all to do over, she would have stayed home...
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-31-2010
Tue, 09-21-2010 - 8:32am

I wish I could say that it wasn't. However, for every site you find where women denigrate men, you can find a site where men are equally dismissive of women. When I first went online looking for ML resources and boards for support, I ran across at least two that were male centered. The general consensus was that women should want to be "walking masturbatory aids" for their men. The men cared little about why women think and feel as they do. It was abhorrent to me.

I can't help but think this is related to society's "me" centeredness.

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-03-2009
Tue, 09-21-2010 - 8:35am
...hopefully, the attitudes are getting kinder...maybe the aura of unhappy homes where couples circle each other while trying to avoid each other is resulting in children who want to be happy with the person they've chosen; warts, low libido, high libido, and all...not just with a plan to skirt out at the first sign of freedom (I am not reflecting on anyone here...mostly in my real life...it feels so sorted, and I have to wonder how many of the partners are doing the same thing...just hanging until the children are older...)...
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-10-2009
Tue, 09-21-2010 - 9:14am

Well Z - I

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-10-2009
Tue, 09-21-2010 - 9:20am

Sorry about your experiences, and I had hoped that most

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2006
Tue, 09-21-2010 - 9:21am

Z,

To add to your data...as an outlier, or as an instructive example, not sure which. I am 43, my mother is 62. It was considered great sport by my mother, in our household, to make fun of my father and run him down and when I was small she frequently let me "in" on the game. She was smart, and should have gone to college, but chose to marry my dad instead (I have some suspicions that there was a baby on the way that didn't make it, but no proof.) I know that some of her friends in the neighborhood also engaged in the sport of "man-bashing." I wanted nothing to do with the kind of relationship she had with my dad. I saw the toll it took on him, and knew I didn't want it. I looked to my father's parents and some of the parents of my friend's as examples of what a relationship should be.

So although my DH is a complete jerk (according to some very good sources) I try my best to never berate him, or nag on him. I am always the first to give him the benefit of a doubt, and as you have seen here, will cling to defending him until it is proved to me beyond any question that he is wrong.

I think the pendulum swung too far in the other direction for me. I overcompensated. Now I pay that price, but, still, it's better than the alternative in my book.

roo and snowy siggie
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-31-2010
Tue, 09-21-2010 - 9:26am

In this culture we are not taught to put anyone else's needs above our own (except for our children). This attitude pervades every space I've been in from academia to the corporate world. Those who are willing to step on others to get ahead or take the "ends justify the means" approach succeed.

And I do think that when men are in men's only spaces that they are more likely to express those dismissive/hurtful attitudes towards women than they would in mixed gender spaces. It's similar for women.






Edited 9/21/2010 9:28 am ET by tiptoeingaround
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-03-2009
Tue, 09-21-2010 - 9:28am
...the swinging pendulum has affected our society at large...we've swung so far on so many issues that we've made some things worse...but...yes, yes, and yes...now, I will say that the women I associate with do not engage in this behavior with their men present...but...

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