the "talk" part 34123479

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Registered: 05-04-2006
the "talk" part 34123479
44
Mon, 11-26-2012 - 11:30am

Or something like that.  On Saturday night (when I had initiated sex on either Thursday or Friday, can't recall) he gets into bed and grabs my tit and pinches it HARD.  My '%^#$, knock that off!' brings on another TALK.  Wherein he tells me that I always have to have it my way, and I'm not trying hard enough, and that we have sex, like what, once a week?  And that I only have sex to get him off my back, and I haven't tried to enjoy it, and we've eliminated all the physical causes so the problem is all in my head, and etc etc etc.  Of course he storms off, and I cry.  I have nothing to say to any of this, and told him so.  What is it I am supposed to say?  When I say that, he gets mad, and says everything else that gets done about this problem is his doing, and I need to step up to the plate.  He's not going to tell me what I am supposed to say on top of that. 

I guess my taking testosterone cream and anti-parkinson's drugs, and initiating sex once a week even though I don't really want it, and reading a zillion books, isn't actually the same thing as me DOING something about the problem.  This morning I called the sex therapist in the town 45 minutes away.  All new patients have to be put on a wait list and take a cancellation appointment.  The receptionist couldn't tell me how long it would take to get in.  And apparently I have to drop everything and go to whatever appointment comes along.  Not really excited about that, since i have a job and everything.

We didn't speak all on Sunday.  Not so much as one word the whole day.  I don't know what I am supposed to do at this point.  I'm all out of ideas.  I will probably call him at lunch and tell him about the sex therapist.  I'm sure that making that call won't count either (although it felt really awful and embarrassing and pointless to me.)  Crying at my desk.  great..  better go work and try to think about something else.

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Registered: 05-04-2006
Tue, 11-27-2012 - 12:32pm
Glenn, Uh, it IS still a lie even if everyone knows it is one. However, I think I know what you are getting at, and I like how you keep it light. I just don't see this working in this instance. If I say "oh, I wasn't trying to hurt you either" then he says "yes you were" and if I say "so were you" then it goes to "well you USED to like it" and I am backed into the bad feeling corner of saying "yes, I know I did, and I don't know, what is it you'd like me to do about that" and he winds up somewhere down the line saying "there is no way I CAN touch you, everything hurts you or irritates or whatever, NOTHING turns you on" and then I feel like complete crap. However, sitting here all calm and centered I can see that there is a third alternative besides hurting me or turning me on. He can touch me in a neutral way, which is a much better choice than hurting me or failing to turn me on. It doesn't make either of us feel like undesireable failures. See, Schnarch IS helping!!
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Registered: 08-11-2011
Tue, 11-27-2012 - 12:35pm
"To be strong enough and be centered enough to know that just because the person doesn't do what you want when you want it doesn't mean they don't love you." I agree with this, but it goes back to my example I posted earlier, would you really want to sit around waiting for the other person, when you are in the mood to go out to lunch? I'm not saying she has to have sex whenever I want it, but getting turned down almost every time, and then have to wait until she finally initiates, which may be a time when I'm not really in the mood? That is the hard part.
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Registered: 12-05-2006
Tue, 11-27-2012 - 12:40pm

Mir, I think it's great that you are growing in self actualization. However, if he doesn't come along with you, you will out-grow him and the marriage will end.

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Registered: 05-04-2006
Tue, 11-27-2012 - 12:40pm
71bri, if you aren't in the mood, then you say no, just like she does. Look, I know it chaps your ass that you she has all the control, but you GIVE it to her if you say "yes" when you want to say "no" You are making it WORSE! It is built into the situation that she is going to have more control. It's not her fault, and I can guarantee you she probably doesn't really WANT that control. It sucks. That's why I agreed to an open arrangement. I didn't want that kind of control over his sexuality. You've got to stop resenting her for having inherent control. That's like being angry that water runs downhill. You cannot stop it, it's not the water's fault either. Get a sump pump, shore yourself up and work with it as best you can.
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Registered: 05-04-2006
Tue, 11-27-2012 - 12:45pm
I think that might be part of what has been holding me back all this time, Glenn. As much as I fear "upsetting the apple cart" and making him angry I think I'm also afraid that he just won't come along with the growth and I will lose him anyways.
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Registered: 08-11-2011
Tue, 11-27-2012 - 12:52pm

71bri, if you aren't in the mood, then you say no, just like she does.

Remember this post?:  (Read the bolded part)

I think an HL considers sex as part of existence, like breathing - it is ongoing and dynamic. For a LL, it is more of a task (many here have used the word "chore"). As such, for an LL to say "not now" is equivalent to saying "I'll do it later", and to them that is a perfectly acceptable answer - just as taking out the garbage later is to me - as long as it is out by the time the truck comes in the morning, who cares what time it hits the curb. So likewise, as long as sex happens before the relationship implodes, everything is OK in the LL's mind. This is a constant in our house. I have no idea how many times DW has said "not now, I have to get some stuff done, how about tomorrow", which then morphs into a 3-or-more-day wait due to things cropping up here and there (as an aside, "getting stuff done" has become a phrase which makes me seethe). HL's see ourselves on the bottom of the priority pile when this happens. To LL's, however, they just see it as something that will eventually get done. The corollary to this is that the hundreds of rejections aren't rejections at all, they are just reschedules - and conveniently ignore the HL mindset that each one of those reschedules was a missed opportunity that will never happen again. To an LL, when it is finally done, it makes up for every rejection since the last time you had sex.

This is why HLs are reluctant to say no.  Say no and now wait twice as long for another oppurtunity to present itself?

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Registered: 05-04-2006
Tue, 11-27-2012 - 1:27pm

Yes, say no and wait twice as long. Because sometimes you have to bear uncomfortable situations to stay true to yourself and preserve your integrity and dignity. Does it suck? Yes, but what you are doing is for the greater good (the good of your self and your relationship.) How about say yes and then initiate when you are ready later? Will you get a 'no' Maybe. But at least you were doing what is honest and true in your heart and not gobbling up scraps like a stray dog.

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Registered: 08-11-2011
Tue, 11-27-2012 - 2:02pm

"But at least you were doing what is honest and true in your heart and not gobbling up scraps like a stray dog."

Doing what is honest and true in my heart?  I'm sorry, but me being honest does not seem to get me anywhere.

Regardless of what I do, I feel like I'm begging for scraps like a stray dog, and I'm tired of it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-04-2006
Tue, 11-27-2012 - 2:18pm
You choose to do it. If you say yes, when you want to say no, then you have reduced yourself to that level. Say no when you mean no and yes when you mean yes. Stop trying to use things to "get yourself somewhere" If you break the cycle of dependency maybe she will be able to see you as independent. And that would greatly increase your value to her (or I think it would.) You've got to change your view of yourself, and your view of her to make it work. You both should read this book, Intimacy & Desire, by Schnarch. It's changing my life right now...right this very minute. I feel like I'm having some sort of awakening.
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Registered: 02-02-2004
Tue, 11-27-2012 - 4:15pm
>>>>> Regardless of what I do, I feel like I'm begging for scraps like a stray dog, and I'm tired of it. <<<<< But not tired enough to leave. Stinks, doesn't it? I have been doing this for years and it never gets any easier. The smart ones leave. Those of us who don't love ourselves enough and don't have enough confidence stay. If I promised you a fabulous relationship with the next person, would you leave? If so, then leave despite no guarantees. Because there are no guarantees in life. Except the near certian guarantee that you will remain miserable if nothing changes. Which is the most likely outcome if you stay with her. I have been here for years. Many HLs have come and gone. Many ended the relationship that brought them here. Offhand I cannot remember a single instance in which a HL left their partner, and then came back here months or years later and said they regreted ending the relationship. On the other hand, many have reported back how pleased they are with new relationships. Small sample and anecdotal, I know. But food for thought. If it is any consolation, my relations with Mrs. Hold are as regular now as they ever were during our marriage. Still not what I wish. But better than during the worst of our dry spells. So it can go through better phases even after long term ML. But Mrs. Hold ALWAYS has control. That, as Miranda quite correctly pointed out, is inherent in ML and will never change. The LL controls. Even though, also as Miranda said, the last thing the LL wants is to be in charge of s*x.

When you see it coming, duck!