Addiction problem - again

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2005
Addiction problem - again
72
Fri, 04-01-2005 - 2:27pm

Ok gals (and guys?), I could use your thoughts, insight and general all-around help. Here's the deal:

Previously married to an alcoholic, upon leaving that marriage I went into therapy, figured I needed a little mental health "clean up". Stayed single for nearly a decade before marrying again. Wasn't looking for a husband but this man was so much right for me in so many ways, I've never met anyone who I was more impressed with his heart, his ethics, all of it. Not to say I didn't recognize flaws, he was not on a pedestal.

Fast forward several years. He comes to me with a confession -- he's a compulsive gambler. He's incredibly sorry, says and does all the right things. He signed himself up for specialized treatment, he's called GA (Gambler's Anonymous) for meeting times and places, tells me he knows I might walk out, says he hopes I don't but that whether I'm in the picture or not he needs to get clean and stay clean. He's attending treatment and GA each twice a week, comes back enthusiastic, full of new information and a stronger determination to work the program. He says he knows GA has to be a part of his life for the rest of his life, and he embraces that. He's been in recovery for a little over 30 days, and is very proud of that.

Now for me. I don't know where I am with this. My feelings are on a roller coaster. I go from feeling okay with it, he's saying and doing all the right things, the problem is "resolved" (he's not gambling *today*) and we should be able to move forward right? Sounds great some days. I went through some terrific anger after I'd had a few days to process his announcement, that I (probably inappropriately) spewed all over him. Felt lots better after I'd let him know just how I felt and in truth, the feelings I expressed during that attack really have lessened. Yesterday I contacted his outpatient treatment facility and scheduled an appointment for myself for individual therapy -- something they provide to family and friends. Couples counseling through them will come after he's had a bit more time (and some individual therapy) under his belt. He talks non-stop about his classes, his problem, etc., etc., etc., but he avoids talking about our relationship like he plague. He seems capable of only talking about our relationship in terms of the damage he's done to it, but to me, that's stuck in the past, it does nothing to help us work though, and move forward. I don't find it helpful to watch him beat himself up. Maybe expecting him to be able to talk about our relationship is unreasonable? I know it's incredibly important for him to focus on himself right now rather than our relationship, but WE have to fit in there somewhere. Watching us grow further and further apart, building walls and closing doors while he gleefully works his recovery isn't good for us and doesn't treat our relationship at all.

Meanwhile the poor guy doesn't know what he's going to be faced with. The understanding, supportive wife, the angry "how could you do this to me?" wife, or the distant and stepping away even further wife. Lately, it's mostly been the distant one. Sex and any kind of physical closeness is not happening at our house. I feel that coming home to me is hurting his reovery.

Yesterday he tells me about these meetings that are offered, for the gambler and their families, group meetings of the informational type. I flashed back to days gone by with my ex. I attended those same damned meetings when he was in treatment. I didn't want to be a part of an addiction problem again. Granted, there is a huge difference in that my current husband is taking responsibility and seeking out recovery, whereas my ex really didn't want to be there and (surprise, surprise) wasn't successful in recovery. It just slaps me that I've taken a huge step back into my past. And with that I have to say is a huge unsettling recognition that I've once again chosen an addict. It's possible that choosing two addicts is a coincidence, but I highly doubt it. Since I'm not looking for a divorce it's a moot point right now, but none the less unsettling.

So -- I go from okay with it to angry about it to unhappy that I have to go through the addiction class/therapy program AGAIN. And I'm not the one with the problem. I know that like it or not this is where I am and whining won't change it, but honestly, I feel put out that I have to make that a part of my life when it isn't even something I've done. I also know it's my choice to attend or not. I know I need to. I know I should. I know it's best for him/us, and maybe me. But want to is another issue entirely. I feel like a spoiled child who's stamping her foot saying "NO! I don't WANT to go!" I should be able to suck it up, move forward and do what's best enthusiastically but it's not how I feel.

Help?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Fri, 04-01-2005 - 2:50pm

I am going to offer no useful advice, but just one suggestion. Perhaps you might feel better seeing an individual therapist instead of going to the GA family therapy? I completely understand how you feel you are in a bad dream doing this all over again. I was just thinking at the same time how much I look forward to my therapy sessions. My therapist understand me and is there for me and for that hour I have all his attention. He gives great guidance and helps me see things I'm not seeing. From reading your post it seems one of the questions burning in your mind is how in the heck you picked a second addict (it could be a coincidence, but you don't think so). The other big question is how to get your respect back for your husband. I don't think you need to go to GA for that, a personal therapist will be able to help you address those issues just fine (although a therapist that knows something about addictions counseling is definitely called for). Maybe going to someone of your choosing will feel less forced and less like the family of addicts classes you attended in the past. Just a shot in the dark suggestion though, I have not been in your shoes and can't really say what is the best course of action to get past this.

(((HUGS)))

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Registered: 03-31-2005
Fri, 04-01-2005 - 5:55pm

Thanks so much for your thoughts and suggestion, Firstamendment. You've brought an aspect I hadn't really thought of. I'd figured that goning to a therapist in his treatment program would be best because they'd be most experienced with understanding the kinds of issues that generally come up as a result of a gambling addiction, and I suppost that could still be true; but on the other hand, like you suggest, what I need is someone who is concerned with MY side. Not that a therapist from the treatment facility wouldn't be, but any therapist should be able to deal with the issues I'm struggling with. I'll definitely put some thought into it!

Thanks so much!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2005
Fri, 04-01-2005 - 5:57pm
Oops! Meant to post the "thank you" emoticon and hit the "two cents" instead.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 04-01-2005 - 6:04pm

Yeah, you are the one with the problem. YOu're an enabler. Here's my suggestion.....as I was an enabler, and codependent ad became a drunk - after eating disorders, shopping addictions, relationshipping to excess - you name it.

Enabling is a "codependency thinking pattern". So, if you don't want to go to his program therapy....go to "CoDA". Codependent's Anonymous.

Because what you did was "serve time" in that decade without a mate, thinking it was time well spent. But apparently what you didn't do to an extensive degree was go out and create interests and lifestyle, explore yourself at the fundamental and subliminal levels, learn to meet your own needs, and become complete. If you had - you couldn't have fallen "into" his life and lifestyle so easily - adopting his priorities and values and thus no objectivity to see things for what they are.

A relationship issn't a goal. It's not a venue to success, security, happiness, identity or completion. But codependents have at all times between themselves and those entities a middle man or conduit....that they give to, live thru, enable and ride the coattails on......and in taking that as an approach to life....you end up with addicts adn losers.

Because an addict is just that - in mirror opposite. They also have a "need" - of someone to make their life easier adn facilitate their using and abusing whatever the substance or activity is. And so whiel you're over there so delighted they find you desirable that you're upgrading and bettering their life.....they're over there now having more than they ever did and have always felt entitled to, while doing nothing but what it is they've always done which has never netted them with success.

The reason the addict so easily writes off the enabler is there is no investment in the enabler on the part ofthe addict. The addict belives they're entitled to all this providership and assistance and if you're not going to od it - by God I"ll find osmeone who will.

The enabler has an extremely difficult time walking away from the time, effort, money, and lifestyle that they've put together as a "gift" to the addict.....that now the addict believes the enabler must continue to maintain and upgrade...while there is nothing for the enabler to get out of it but more work, effort, sacrifice, and expenditure. The enabler thought "at some point, I'l have made their life so great they'll love me, they''ll never leave me, they'll aprpeciate and respect me." No, the addict doesn't invest in the enabler.

You're living in a reality that has changed as a result ofa a values change. Values justify our actions, feelings, thoughts, decisions, words, ideas, and desires. Those same values in all situations determine our character, conscience, integrity and honor.

Believe me, the day it was "wrong' to be drunk and use that as a coping mechanism for living in the life I had created and hated...I never again thought it was "my right" to drink. And i created a great life - becuase that was my responsibility as I saw it for the first time at 33....after destroying alot of people in my path.

So he's undergone a values change that says it is wrong to gamble in order to cope with his insecurities, fears, doubts and anger about himself and life. The man you "knew" is no more - and you're going to have to form a completely new relationship with him.

In that light, there is no reason you should carte blanche trust him - you don't know him. And there is no reason you should unconditionally adore him - you don't know him. The reality is you're financially intertwined, and socially comingled and to divest yourself of all that out of "fear" is precisely waht adicts and enablers do.

So you get to CoDA....realize you've been living a shell of an existence waiting for someone else to fill you up- and fortunately it appears you've found someone to do it who's getting clean with his problem and going to resolve it so that "gambling" isn't what he wants to do anymore.

If you don't change...you think kyou resent him now....wait'll the guilt/shame/fear dissipate as he earns his own respect and admiration and in its place is a high self-esteem that means he sees facts for what they are, he owes nobody but won't step on anybody - believe me, the "potential" you fell for - he might easily not interprete it the same way at all.

Get to CoDA...I've never seen a marriage last where the addict of any sort enters recovery and their spouse or SO didn't enter the "enabling facet program" - quite often - that is CoDA.

Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com

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Registered: 03-31-2005
Fri, 04-01-2005 - 10:56pm

Erin, I mean no disrespect and you may be right, but do you have enough information to make the assessments you've made? Here's a little more info that may (or may not) alter what you're take on this is so far:

First of all, I don't believe that I did just "serve time" in those years that I wasn't married. I did create interests and lifestyle, broadened my horizons very much -- I set out with a thirst to soak it all in, live, learn, take in as much and as many new experiences, viewpoints, etc., that I could. I learned as much as I could, about personalities in general and me in particular. I did work to find out who I was, what I wanted, what was important to me and what was behind the choices I'd made. It wasn't always easy and it wasn't always fun, but I wanted to clean up myself, unload baggage and not move forward to make another stupid mistake. I absolutely met my own needs, loved being single, loved being on my own did not plan to ever marry again and was perfectly okay without a man in my life. I realize a relationship isn't a goal, I've always realized that. I was looking for no one to fill any void.

As far as adopting his lifestyle, his values goes, let me explain that I wasn't aware of his gambling -- none of it. Okay, we buy lottery tickets (five maximum) when the lottery's up to 40 bazillion dollars once ever five months or so, other than that, I wasn't aware of any gambling at all. He was a morning gambler Monday through Friday. His job allows him to come and go at his discretion so he was in the habit of either stopping by on his way to work or going straight to work and going back later in the morning. He didn't have the problem when we married, in fact he describes the first time he played the type of machine that hooked him, and it sounds just like an addict describing the "perfect" (and addicting) high -- hell, it was! Poker machines are legal in our state, and in the world of gambling addiction, these machines are known as the crack cocaine of gambling. They're notorious for hooking addicts, hard and fast. Not making excuses, just enlightening any one who doesn't know. He used his paycheck to gamble and floated loans to "make up the loss" so that his spending wouldn't be found out. He was juggling lots of balls in the air to keep it all out of sight. Yes, he lied about some late payments that must have "got stuck in the mail", etc. when the reality was he'd gambled the money and wasn't able to make the payment I thought had already been made until it was late, but since I've always been the primary bill payer, those incidents were few and far between.

As far as me "making his life easier by enabling him" goes, let me tell you a little story. There was a time (a brief time) that we had a joint checking account. He had a habit of withdrawing a few hundred at a time for work purchases of miscellaneous supplies (whatever sounded best at the time). Obviously, this wasn't for work, it was for gambling, but I didn't know that. He always assured me "work" would reimburse the expense and the money was always redeposited in a week or so. I was not okay with the practice and told him so, I also was more than a little angry about having hundreds removed from our account without my prior knowledge and he agreed not to withdraw money without talking to me about it first. Despite the agreement, he withdrew money without my knowledge again. We talked again, he agreed again, but when I got to work the day after our agreement and check our account online, I found that he'd pulled $200 out after he dropped me off at work. What I did was I walked directly to the bank, closed the account and opened a checking account for myself. I don't believe I'm much of an enabler. If something's happening that I don't like, if it's not mine to control, I remove myself from it. Many months after that occurred he asked if I'd open a joint account with him again. Again, not knowing there was a gambling problem, just knowing my previous experience, my response was out almost before he'd finished his sentence. One word. "No". He would occasionally ask to carry my debit card not because he needed it, but "just in case" when he was going out of town, my answer was always "no". My explanation was that it was his unagreed on ATM withdrawls that caused me to close our joint account in the first place, no way was I comfortable letting him have my card. I also reminded him that this was the consequence of his actions, therefore it was his problem to figure out, not mine to handle for him. Does that sound enabling to you?

I'm not sure where your explanation that the addict has an easy time writing off the enabler. Your statement, "The addict belives they're entitled to all this providership and assistance and if you're not going to do it - by God I'll find someone who will. The addict belives they're entitled to all this providership and assistance and if you're not going to do it - by God I"ll find someone who will.", doesn't seem to fit in my situation, but maybe you can explain that it does. He's not gotten providership from me (other than since I pay the bills they're on time and we don't have late payment or fees, late notices, etc.; my standard is to pay the bills before they're do; if I can pay them the day they're received, I do it. As far as "if you not going to do it, by God I'll find someone who will" goes, he hasn't done that, hasn't threatened that and has made no indication that what I'm doing is wrong at any time -- even when I refuse him what he asks. He's never been upset or angry, says "you're right, I understand" and that's the end of it.

As far as the gambling being his form of dealing with stress, yes, I realize that and so does he. He also know he needs to recognize his triggers so that he can avoid them when possible and recognize them when they creep up on him. He knows he needs to find an activity to replace gambling, otherwise all he's done in stopping gambling is to remove his release valve, his way of dealing with stress and problems. He's sure to fail or simply replace it with another addiction if he doesn't.

"You're living in a reality that has changed as a result of a a values change." He's been living the reality change, he's been keeping the balls in the air and keeping this all quiet. As far as I'm concerned on that front, things didn't change. Bills got paid, we made furniture and appliance purchases, etc. His company was late with paychecks on occasion (lie) but it always showed up in a few days time.

What's changed is, as you've pointed out, who he is vs. who he was when we married. It's hard for me to get my head around this guy with strong beliefs, work ethic, huge heart, etc. being the man who lied to my face and had a secret life behind my back. In day to day life, this has been much more of a realization than it has been an impact on my day-to-day life. The bills still get paid, in the same time frame, money's still handled in the same way it always has. What's changed isn't tangible, it's knowledge. Trust is out the window, but that's hard to get my head around too because I always trusted him. Okay, not with our checking account, but not trusting him with $5 now (at this point in his recovery he carries no cash and explains every monetary need he has to me -- which is uncomfortable for me, I don't want to be his controller, his mother, or big brother but he assures me this is temporary, until he has more "clean time" under his belt. I guess like not having alcohol in the home of a newly recovering alcholic. Anyway, yes, who he is vs. who he was vs. who I thought he was is a lot muddy for me.

And yes, I'm angry. Angry that this whole damn thing is happening, that I'm faced with going through the whole damned process again -- and I'm not an addict. I feel selfish, I feel self centered and incredibly cold and uncaring. But being mad as hell and grumbling as I trudge off to "addiction awareness and your addict" classes isn't going to help a damned thing.

Does what I've said alter your thinking at all?

**Edited to say -- and if it doesn't alter your thinking, what are you seeing in me that says "enabler" to you?**

Edited 4/2/2005 12:02 am ET ET by pandabu




Edited 4/2/2005 9:33 pm ET ET by pandabu
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 04-02-2005 - 1:41am

I don't think your feelings are unusual at all, Pandabu, and, as my first husband was also an alcoholic, I can understand your concern at finding yourself in addiction relationship #2, I'd be feeling the same way. I can understand and appreciate your concerns that the range of feelings you're going through aren't helping your husband's recovery. I wish I could give you more thoughts and direction on that, but I can't. I do know that he's responsible for his own recovery, not you. The feelings you're having are due to the betrayal, the broken trust and you're probably mourning the loss of what you believed you had. I guess what I'm trying to say is that your emotions are a direct result of his actions, which is something he'll have to own up to. I don't know what an addiction counselor would tell you about spewing off at him at this point in his recovery, but I do understand that you have feelings and issues and they need to be addressed to. Sitting in a corner, drowning in what you're trying to deal with while you watch him trot off to treatment to get "better" won't help you and won't help your relationship. Again, I don't know what's recommended in this kind of issue as far as dealing with each other goes.


I think seeing the therapist will help clear up a lot of those things for you. There's also would be a good source of help to you, Gam-Anon. It's an organization that is to the friends and family of gamblers what Alanon is to alcoholics.There is also a board on the iVillage Pregnancy & Parenting Channel,Dealing with a Compulsive Gambler where I'm sure you'll find support, understanding and some of the answers you're asking here.


I know you already know this, but I do have to say that it sounds like your husband is doing the right things. He sounds motivated. That will take him a lot farther than someone who is going through the motions of treatment. Going and working the program are two very different things.


Best of luck, Pandabu and let us know how you're doing.





~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown









"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Sat, 04-02-2005 - 10:07am

I have a thought - and I realize I could be totally off base. As I said I have never been there, and the ladies on this board that have been there have shared a lot about their experience (even if it doesn't exactly mirror yours).

But I honestly think a gambling addiction is different from being an alcoholic or drug addict. My dad was a drug addict. Drug addicts tend to not come home, at least this was the case with my dad. For my dad it was a social thing, he did it with his friends and not during work hours. Coming home late turned into not coming home at all. My mom didn't have to know what was wrong to know something was wrong, and she did know he had used drugs before they married so it was a red flag of course. I believe this is similar for alcoholics, although I have no experience to point to. I believe alcoholics either go out with their friends and drink (and do not necessarily sober up before coming home) or they drink at home and their behavior points to something being wrong (even if the signs are ignored).

The behavior you describe from your husband up to the point you found this out sounds just like my ex-h. My ex-h was never a gambler but he was irresponsible with money. Before we were married we lived together and he would go to the ATM, see a balance and make a withdrawl. Even after we had a talk about it, he still did not consider that I may have written checks that haven't cleared yet, and he bounced enough checks that my bank closed my account on me. I felt so small when I went to the bank to plead my case and the bank representative said in a condensending tone that she could see I was 'trying' to manage my account but I wasn't doing a good enough job and the account would remain closed. After that we always had separate accounts (at first we had a joint account too to hold money for joint bills, but he did have access to it). After we married our money was completely separate. I made sure all the bills got paid and that he had enough money left over for his personal needs. I made the financial decisions and he had to live by them. I never knew where his money went, and I didn't care, as long as I had enough to pay the bills.

Later in our marriage, we had a baby and bought a house, he graduated from graduate school and started working all in a 3 month period. Since he was finally going to have a decent income, I figured out he could afford to pay the mortgage and his student loans, and I could cover the rest of the bills. I thought it made sense to make him responsible for one bill, the mortgage (vs a ton of tiny bills due all throughout the month), and that he needed to develop some financial responsibility. As it turns out, for the first year all was fine. The second year I though was fine but it wasn't. About the middle of the second year in our house, I had an opportunity to take a job with a client of mine. I went through the first round of interviews and they went well. I knew they would be pulling a credit bureau if they offered me the job, so I pulled it to make sure it was accurate (I hadn't seen it since we applied for our mortgage). I was stunned to see we were 90 days delinquent on our mortgage, and had been 90 days delinquent earlier in the year for a few months, and 30-60 days delinquent several other times. He confessed that he had fallen behind and was too afraid to tell me. I took a 401k loan and we got caught up. He promised he had learned his lesson and we went about our lives.

Lots of other things were happenening during this time and our marriage was falling apart. About 6 months later, I told him I wanted a divorce. I learned that once again he had fallen behind on the mortgage (although he was only a couple weeks behind at this point) and a new shocker, he had never, not in three years, began repayment of his student loans. They had recently taken him to court and he didn't know it because refused to open his own mail (he was always obsessed with getting the mail, I never realized why). They had begun garnishing his wages (this is the point he learned he had been sued) and that is why he had fallen behind on the mortgage again (not enough money to cover both, them taking him to court had added $30k to his student loan balance).

I have no idea where all that money went. I know that in most cases he did eventually get the mortgage paid, just late because he would be short the payment, or just shy of making 2 payments and wouldn't make 1, or would pay an odd amount and they would reject it (so he says) for not being the exact balance due. He told me 1 time he borrowed some money from his mom to get caught up (the first time he was 90 days past due) and the second time I was the one that caught us up (although he did have most of the balance due in his account). He is not a gambler, I am sure of that. I am not sure how much is unaccounted for, because I think I miscalcuated his take home pay and he never told me. I think what he did spend on was things at home depot and clothes, cds, and things like that. He is just really horrible with money and had no concept of communicating or trying to be a partner when it came to money (neither did I, btw, it is partially my fault for not working with him either).

What I'm saying is that your husbands behavior could have just as easily been the behavior of someone irresponsible with money as it was likely to be the behavior of a compulsive gambler, and the signs that are there with a drug addict or alcoholic aren't the same kind of signs a compulsive gambler would give off. They don't come home with beer on their breath or needle marks, they don't wake up with hangovers, and from what you say, your husband was doing this on his work time so how could you have known that?

I don't think you ignored the signs, because I don't think you could have known those were the signs of a compulsive gambler just because you used to be married to a different kind of addict. I think you should wait until you explore this with a therapist (preferably an addictions counselor, so they know what the signs are and when/how enabling works for a gambler) before you can conluded that this addiction pattern has something to do with you.

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Registered: 03-31-2005
Sat, 04-02-2005 - 1:30pm

Firstamendment, thank you for sharing that, it helps. Even if it's not *exactly* my situation it's quite close in a lot of ways and I feel a lot less alone in it. I have to say that I'd wondered how I could have gone through these last few years totally oblivious to the problem and I felt I had to have been somewhat brain dead to not have picked up on what was really going on. You having shared what happened to you has made me feel much less stupid, if you know what I mean.

I see what you mean about the differences between the signs of a substance abuser and the signs of a gambler and yeah, obviously it's harder to pick up. Beyond that though, I think -- and maybe I'm wrong -- that there are parts of the personality that predispose a person to being an addict. If that's true, that would mean that I didn't recognize similarities between my husband and my ex-husband. I think you're right, a counselor will help me settle those concerns. And, like I said, I'm not looking at leaving, so it's a moot point.

Again, thank you very much for a helpful and very valuable response.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2005
Sat, 04-02-2005 - 1:39pm

Thanks cl. You helped remind me that my feelings matter too, there is more going on here than *just* his recovery (not that I'm trying to downplay its importance), but there's a lot of "fall out" as a result of the addiction that needs to be addressed in order for the relationship to "recover" along with it. I appreciate the links to the gambling board (I didn't know there was one!) and Gam-Anon. From reading your responses to others, I did know your ex was an alcoholic,it's good to know that you think you'd be feeling the same way I am. Somehow that helps. I guess it makes me feel a little more "normal". You know, I think that's part of it. All I want is to have a "normal" relationship and dammit, it's not -- again!

I do know that him recognizing his problem, moving forward on his own to get help and his being motivated to keep it up are very important. I also know it's vastly different from my ex's approach to recovery, or should I say the appearance of going into recovery.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-31-2005
Sat, 04-02-2005 - 8:32pm

Generally speaking, yes, if my addicted husband wasn't making a genuine effort to stay clean I would be out of there, you're right. The unsettling thing here is, he's BEEN an active addict and I was clueless. Granted, I have a few more awarenesses now, thanks to his coming "clean" with me, but he could also choose to take it back underground and how would I know? My staying is based on his staying clean and my knowledge of that will be largely on his word. Since he hid it from me before, who's to say he won't again? Even he can't answer that.

It sounds like you were pretty leveled to find yourself in addiction #2 relationship too, but in your situation, I don't think there's much blame to be had in not picking up on clues. Having only dated for three weeks before marrying, whether you went to high school together or not, doesn't afford you a fraction of enough time to learn who he is today. It's easy to hid problems and huge flaws in a three week window, you know? I mean in three weeks you don't have a good look at who they are at all. You didn't have time to miss anything! In my case though, we'd been together for a full year before we married. Fact is, he didn't start gambling until some time after we'd been married.

I guess beyond not being sure of what's going on around me and knowing it'll be up to him what I know, what's most unsettling is that, as Doubleblade pointed out, I have to re-evaluate everything I've thought about him. Impeccible ethics I felt, yet he's lied to me over and over again -- even conned me; and that throws my "impeccible ethics" image right out the window. I still find myself trying to define him and think of him in those old ways (from a few weeks ago) then realize they don't/can't fit anymore, and I can't clearly put the puzzle of who he is (or who I think of him as) together so it makes sense. I'm looking at the pieces and have no idea where to start trying to fit them together. I find myself wanting to be close to him, but then feeling that I don't know who the hell he is. It's hard to feel close to someone that you don't know/trust or who has just admitted that what you knew/trusted was totally bogus. The guy I knew is still in there, at least in bits and pieces, I just don't know where it all is, what's really there, what's gone and maybe what was never there to start with.

I will say this -- posting has helped me a lot. Just writing it all out made me feel so much better, immediately after I'd posted, before there were any responses. Hearing what you all have to say has been incredibly helpful and comforting, no matter what you said. It gave me things to think about that I hadn't considered before, it gave me new angles to look at it from and it helped me to clear a little of the muddy water in my head and help me define what my problems and concerns are. Being able to put words to them and identify them more clearly really helped make me feel less "lost in the woods" if you know what I mean. I owe you all a lot, you've helped more than you could know.

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