Almost to divorce, need insights
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| Thu, 01-26-2006 - 1:52pm |
Hi everyone,
I've been married 12 years, has one 5 year old DS, and contemplating divorce. The problems in my M started when the baby arrived. Since that time, I had marked 18 years as the time when I can leave, for the sake of my child. I have come to realize, however, that this timeline is neither good for myself nor my son. My H is a good man, but over the years of turmoil, I have lost my love for him. I can safely say that I do not love him anymore, that I do not feel that I need him in my life, nor can I see me growing old with him. While the fights have subsided, we are emotionally closed to each other.
I had three talks with him last year, each escalating in seriousness. The first one was our marriage is in trouble (zero affection, zero communication). The second one was I think I don't love you anymore (Is love like a plant, if watered, will grow? Or once it's gone, it's gone?). Third talk was I don't love you anymore, I want us to go to counseling, and I will be looking to get out of the M if it doesn't work. Now I really headed toward the direction of divorce and not even wanting to try MC. I feel like MC won't help coz all it would do is to address symptoms. I feel the issue lies with me, that I am a different person from the 23 year old girl, and that H will not be able to change himself (not that I would want him to) to fulfill the me that I am now. I also feel that even if MC helps this time around, and we're okay another year or two, I'd be back at the same state of unhappiness/discontent that I am in now.
So I had the fourth talk with him two nights ago. I told him I want a divorce. He is so very very sad and wants to really give it a final try. I feel that it is too late. I have read that by the time women get to the stage I'm at, we are halfway out the door. Is it too late? Should I give it one last shot, for the sake of my marriage and my son? In a way, I feel like I settled and married the wrong man. So do I just accept that and make the best of it since he is willing to become a better husband and father?
If I choose divorce, how do I reconcile to myself that I'm making the right decision? As I said, H is a good man but we do not connect at all anymore, we're like roommates co-existing, sometimes harmoniously, sometimes tip-toeing around eggshells so as not to make the other one pissy. We also have built a good life together. We both earn a good living, own a house, take nice vacations, put away for retirement. So do I throw away all that and start over again? I know the only one who can answer this question is me. But if anyone has been through a similar situation, I would appreciate any insights.
The second issue is DS. From reading and talking to people, it appears to me that divorce at age 5 would be far easier than any other later age. I love him very much and he is very attached to me. He loves his father too, but is not as bonded with him. That's another thing I'm disappointed in H about -- while he loves DS, he's not the kind of father I thought he would be. So I almost feel like the sooner I go thru D, the easier it would be for him to adjust. If I wait, the more he will understand and perhaps blame/hate me.
Sorry for the long novel for a relatively common problem. Thanks for reading, and I would be grateful for any advice.

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I'll tell you right off that my answer will be biased. I am so pro-marriage it isn't even funny. :) So my answer-- counseling is cheaper than divorce. The BEST thing for your son would be to have his mom and his dad in a happy marriage together. Since there isn't anything grievous that you mention as a reason for divorcing, I'm all for you trying to work things out. Love is not a feeling, it is an action. You decide whether or not you love someone. It can more than be regrown. I think any two people who have their spouse's happiness top priority can have a happy marriage. It can be done and it can be done WELL.
I know there will be many responses that will tell you that after 12 years of marriage you two are who you are and that since you aren't happy and you think you just aren't compatible, then it's okay to get divorced and seek something that makes your life happy. I don't agree with that general philosophy. I think people have become too self-centered and we need to get away from doing what WE want because WE want to be happy and do what is BEST for everyone. I think in your situation as you described it, that would be really trying again.
However, the call is yours and only you know if you'd be truly willing to do that.
Jen
Here's the first reality I'd tell you - don't leave a marriage wehre there is no financial instability or violent behavior "to find someone to love you".
That person is right there in that relationship - not him, but you.
So while you're envisioning this marriage as it is being so barren and devoid.........envision how your life is goin to be as a single parent? Is it any better to be single?
Most women believe it is - even if they rationally and realistically outline their expectations. Depending on your personal age, your personal financial situation - some women find it is NOT better to become a single parent only to find they have no time or energy to date, or cannot find men that want to do anything "but date" - and not make commitment.
So if you're getting out to be a "great single parent witn a fulfilling life that includes a sex partner maybe" - okay, that's probably realistic if you have a solid education, a solid professional career already established, and you're prepared to do all the work you do now at home and in regard to parenting, and all the 'tasks" he does that you're kind of overlooking right now in terms of household management.
But if you're going "If I get out of this relationship, it'll take me awhile to get on my feet financially and emotionally and socially but I'm sure to meet a great guy who wants more of an emotional bond than my hsuband, and shares more of my life intersts than my husband (doubt it - your life interest appears to be in parenting), and is willing to commit and cohabitate".
Because it's VERY UNLIKELY that you're going to find a man that a) wants to parent your child b) doesn't want to have more children c) doesn't have children of his own to prioritize OVER a relationship and your child d) wants to limit and restrict his options personally, professionally, and financially in order to get into a ready-made family while he's a relatively young single man - under 45.
Most people that want partnership - are in it by 35. If they've prioritized partnership in a healthy way it wasn't for financial security or social status and so they got with someone they enjoy, respect, admire in terms of character, share the right percentages of interests in life with, while each having thier own individual and independent identity. They considered partnership the "icing on the cake" - with their individuality being the cake...and they made the cake, then iced it. But they'd rather have "partnership" than slop on their cake that is nothing but sugar and goo.
Obviously, some of those people ahve lost partners due to tragedies beyond their control - they might again be seeking partnership.
But what you're describing that you want is the "emotional" end of a relationship that is RARE to form WHEN A FAMILY ALREADY IS IN EXISTENCE, AND PARENTHOOD IS IMMEDIATELY REQUIRED.
Because WOMEN SCREW IT UP...they don't date he man for sveral years and form that bond WITH THEM...they throw him into parenting their child so they can meet their obligations and "have a life" - because all they do is work and be a parent.
So, if you're leaving.....get prepared to "be a man about it". Be prepared to get up and leave yourself and take the child. Get prepared to pay and file the divorce paperwork and follow up proceedings. Get prepared to be a single parent now, and handle wahtever the legalities are, and the realities are of being a single mother with a full time job, that is going to deal with the father of her child civilly for the sake of the child.
Obviously, the guy is going to come around "on account of the child" - don't misunerstand that. He's not going to come around with a penchant to parent that he never had before..he's going to come around becuase he has the "right to access to his child" - and whatever your state laws are.......he's talking about potentially significant financial loss if this divorce goes thru. So he's going to reinvolve with you and the child - and you're going to enable this for the benefit of the child, while not letting it affect you and your resolve to be a single parent and single woman.
Realize courts deal in reality and facts, not intentions, feelings, and assumptions. so whatever the laws are in your state regarding asset division - get prepared to find out he's not "worth" what you thought he was in terms of liquid asset or immediately availability just because yu're emotonally sick and tired of him.
So think it thru....if you leave for the right reasons - which is having a great, fulfilling, secure, successful life by YOUR defnitions, efforts, means, and stsandards that doesn't include cooperation, assistance, alliance - you'll never regret whatever it is financially you give up - in order to move on.
If you leave for the wrong reasons.....when he's sitting there dating someone half his date becuase he's got the time and funds, and you're getting not attention and interest because nobody's itnerested in having a relationship.........you'll never cease to regret what you did - not just to yourself in the moment, but to your child and his financial security.
Take a long, realistic look at what your life as a single parent is going to be like...and if that appeals more than this becuase you're going to become the man you want to meet, and you're going to ecome your best friend, you truly believe you'll be a better parent being a more complete and diversified and self-defined person......then you're on the right track. Otherwise, you're not.
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
What you've posted today gives very much the same description of your situation as you posted before:
Need advice! Married 11 yrs, have child You posted a response to another poster on the same topic that was really good, I thought it might be helpful/insightful for you to reread the advice you gave others, so I'm posting it here too:
Teetering's response to "Suddenly unhappy in a happy marriage"
I agree with most of what Jen (Imasillynut) had to say except the part about "regrowing" love. I'm not going to say you can never rekindle love, but I do think that your view of your partner (respect, for instance) can change enough that he is no longer what he once was, or is not what you perceived him to be, and therefore, what you saw in him that resulted in you loving him no longer exists and can't be rebuilt. I hope that made sense, I'm not sure it did.
I don't advocate staying in a relationship in which you're unhappy. Living your life this way, to me, is an existence, not a life, and a lousy existence at that. I firmly believe that living that kind of of life is harmful for children, as they look to replicate the relationship they rehearsed for growing up. If it's not the kind of life you'd want them to live, it's not where you should stay, IMO.
I'm curious, in your post you mentioned talking to him about counseling a few times, but it doesn't sound like that ever happened, why? I think you absolutely should give counseling a try. I understand that you feel like you're "done", but you've not given counseling a chance yet and you can't know what you might discover there. In your response to Srnsns (posted above) you suggested that she try individual counseling as well, I think that's a great idea for you as well. You've indicated uncertainty (not at all uncommon, by the way) "If I choose divorce, how do I reconcile to myself that I'm making the right decision?" I'd say by doing some individual and/or couples counseling to make certain you are making the right decisions. Looking within yourself with the help of a therapist will help you reconcile your feelings and help you find certainty in whatever it is you decide to do. Not an easy journey, but one that will be well worth the time spent.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Teetering, while I agree in principal with you doing marriage counselling - there is a very important element which may have been overlooked.
The very first question that the marriage counsellor will ask you is "do you want this marriage to work?" You have to answer the counsellor honestly. And I suspect that your answer will be "no".
You see, if you don't have the heart to make it work, all the marriage counselling in the world won't fix your marriage.
I don't think counseling will necessarily fix her marriage either, but I do think it's possible that by exploring some of the problems issues and realizations may come to light that might alter things. I think if nothing else counseling (either individual or couples) will bring her to more certainty of what she wants to do, don't you?
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
<>
~~I will give you that regrowing might have been the wrong term. I used it because the OP did... I do think that you can "fall in love again" or "find a different love to share..." It won't be what it was initially or anything like that but I do believe that 2 people can love each other again as long as there are monumental things to overcome, ie abuse, numerous infidelities, etc.
Jen
cl-2nd life, I'm surprised you remember my posts and actually found them! I've gone back and read them. They coincide with the the first two talks that I finally had with H. But see, I've been at this "process" since May. Along the way, I think I realized that I married a good man, but not the right one for me. I think I settled and was in too much of a rush when I married H. And now here I am....
In my heart, I know I want out and have actually already checked out. Let's say I'm 98% sure, but I keep focusing on that 2% to try to ensure I'm making the right decision. Since I told H a couple days ago, he has been sooo sad. And I feel sad that he is hurting.
On the idea of love being an action or choice or decision, I have a hard time with that. If I really try, I can probably "love" H again. But I have realized that although H and I were "in love" when we were first married, we never achieved the level of deep, emotional connection, sharing, laughter... things that I long for. So if I "learn" to love him again, then I will be giving that up. I do realize that D would be for me and I have to prepared to be a single mother, and I believe I am. And rightly or wrongly, DS's age is a looming deadline for me. I was originally on the 18 year track, but I have since talked to people and I firmly believe now that NOW is the least destructive time for DS and our future relationship. I have two coworkers who had this experience and two ladies on the Surviving Divorce board felt strongly that 5 years old is much easier. I'm afraid that if H and I succeed on working on the M and go on for a couple more years, I'd be back at this point again and DS would be much worse off.
I have actually attended 5 session of individual counseling with 2 different therapists. I really got nothing out of them, and stopped going. As far as marriage counseling, the reason I dont want to go anymore is I feel it will treat the symptoms or behavioral issues, but not the core issues (not to mention I now have a negative impression of therapy). I am, however, halfway through Dr. Phil's Relationship Rescue. This book, if anything, is making me take a deeper look into the relationship. I like it because Dr. Phil's approach is focused on starting with ME as opposed to blaming the partner or events. In the introduction, Dr. Phil said 2/3 of couples who attend MC are the same or worse off a year later.
Anyway, sorry this post is kinda disjointed. But I tried to address the different views brought up by the other posters. I want to thank you all for your responses. They are really making me think more carefully.
Hello
Let me jump right in with my $0.02 worth - to me it sounds almost like you are in a "mid-life crisis". You're 35, your life isn't *exactly* the way you thought it would be, you don't feel the same way toward you DH as you once did, DH isn't the father you thought he'd be, etc. To me, those are all classic signs of a mid-life crisis.
Now let me address a few of your points directly.
"If I really try, I can probably "love" H again. But I have realized that although H and I were "in love" when we were first married, we never achieved the level of deep, emotional connection, sharing, laughter... things that I long for. So if I "learn" to love him again, then I will be giving that up."
So you are saying that you WERE in love with hm once, but that feelings changed. As another poster said - love is an action. If you BOTH try to fall in love again, you won't be giving anything up. You may even find that it's better than it was in the beginning.
"I have actually attended 5 session of individual counseling with 2 different therapists. I really got nothing out of them, and stopped going."
So yo uhad 3 sessions with one therapist and 2 with another? That's not nearly enough time to "get something out of them". If you don't like a particular therapist because of their style or whatever, that's fine - but don't go into therapy expecting overnight miracles.
"As far as marriage counseling, the reason I dont want to go anymore is I feel it will treat the symptoms or behavioral issues, but not the core issues"
That may be what it feels like at times, but you will find that by treating the behaviorial issues you ARE treating the core issues.
"I like it because Dr. Phil's approach is focused on starting with ME as opposed to blaming the partner or events. In the introduction, Dr. Phil said 2/3 of couples who attend MC are the same or worse off a year later."
IF your first 2 therapists were blaming your partner or events, then no wonder you have a negative impression. I've never heard a therapist say anything BUT you are responsible for your own actions. As for the 2/3 - that's bogus. Where did he get those numbers from (a scientific study)? And if 2/3 are the same or worse WITH therapy, how many of those couple would have been worse WITHOUT therapy? 3/4? 4/5? 100%? I'd be willing to bet it's closer to the 100% than anything else. If you aren't trying SOMETHING (therapy or whatever) then things can only continue downhill or stay the same at best.
" I do realize that D would be for me and I have to prepared to be a single mother, and I believe I am."
That's great - but are you prepared to share parenting? To miss out on MANY special occassions because DS isn't with you (Xmas mornings, Easter, first date, tucking him in at night, etc)? And what about if you get shared custody or your DH is deemed to be the CP? Are you prepared to be the NCP? When people think of being a single parent, they usually think "I can handle doing it all myself" but that's not always what being a single parent is about. More than ever before you have to be able to work with someone (and that someone is probably someone that either you don't like very much or they don't like you very much) and be able to give up many of the parenting joys/responsibilities at certain times. It's A LOT harder than you think.
As I said above - this is just my $0.02 worth
Jeff
<>
~~Of course you didn't acheive it. It takes awhile to get there and you checked out of the marriage YEARS ago. The thing is, you can STILL acheive it. You won't be "giving up" anything if you "learn" to love your H again. You will be gaining the world.
Jen
Edited to add: I like watching Dr. Phil and do so regularly. Funny how he always asks people if he can get them counseling. With a counselor. If stats were really that bad, why would he bother with 95% of the people on his show? (getting them counseling...)
Edited 1/27/2006 2:44 pm ET by imasillynut
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