Am I really wrong???
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| Tue, 07-18-2006 - 9:41pm |
I think everyone here knows my hubby and I having problems. And I'm sure everyone knows about the arguement we recently had over the weekend at the golf course. I decided to write my hubby a letter of apology. I express my feelings to him in my letter very throughly without any blame. I actually had a friend read my letter to get her opinion and she thought the letter was great. It answered the who, what, why, etc.
When my hubby came home from work, again (just like yesterday), he went golfing. Again we were cordial. But before he left this is how the conversation went:
Me: Did I lose you?
Hubby: No, you didn't lose me, I'm still here (as he opens the door and starts walking out to his car)
Me: I wish you wouldn't walk away as we are talking (following him to the car)
***Hubby then goes back into the house
Me: I want us to get past this. I have something to give you. I have bad penmenship, so please accept this letter (its on a word document)
****I hand him the letter (we are in the computer room) and then I leave giving him time to read it.
***A few minutes later, I hear him say OK. He then goes and sits on the couch.
Me: I just wanted to express my feelings and I'm sorry
Hubby: Ok, I accept your apology...so do I apologize to you to? I'm sorry
Me: No, I didn't want you to apology (thinking he just now missed the whole point of my letter)
Me: I just wanted you to know that I'm sorry and I wanted to give this letter to you today because I just want us to get past this. Thank You for reading it.
Hubby: You still don't understand why I am upset? And I'm not ready to talk about it. I have to figure some things out for me. (he says all this while he heads out to his car)
***I guess this is what pisses me off...he talks as he leaves, therefore, I feel left hanging and he does this alot.
Me: I wish you wouldn't walk away as you are talking to me. I just think we are starting to talk and then you leave
Hubby: You don't understand, I'm not ready to talk about it and I don't think I ever will be. I don't think this will ever get resolved. I tried telling you and you don't listen.
Me: Can you please tell me once more why you are upset so I can learn from it. If you aren't ready to talk about it, can you give me a day when you can?
Hubby: I don't know
Me: Will it would be nice if we could set a timeframe because I want to work this out
Hubby: Ok, how about next week at 4:00p.m. after I get off from work (saying this annoyingly)
Me: I just thought we should talk because all we are doing right now is carrying resentment
Hubby: I told you I don't want to talk about it...do you want to start a knock down drag out fight
Me: Of course not. I understand you don't want to talk about it and I need to respect you, please believe me when I say that, however, all I ask is we try and talk. I don't want you to shut me out.
Hubby: **shakes his head
Me: I just don't want to feel shut out because I want to work this out
Hubby: I understand how you feel
Me: Ok. (***thinking he doesn't want to talk and I give up)
I'm trying so hard; I give him a letter of apology that I worked on all afternoon and he STILL tells me I don't understand why he's upset. I tried talking to him so we can talk but I feel he's just shutting me out. By the way, our talk was pretty calm. So, now I'm frustrated and he's out golfing again. This time I didn't let it drag on and on like I usually do. However, I feel I am putting forth the effort. I really am trying but I have no idea what to do.
Edited 7/18/2006 9:52 pm ET by casey0201

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casey0201,
<<......Hubby: You still don't understand why I am upset? And I'm not ready to talk about it. I have to figure some things out for me. (he says all this while he heads out to his car)........
........Me: I wish you wouldn't walk away as you are talking to me. I just think we are starting to talk and then you leave
Hubby: You don't understand, I'm not ready to talk about it and I don't think I ever will be. I don't think this will ever get resolved. I tried telling you and you don't listen.
Me: Can you please tell me once more why you are upset so I can learn from it. If you aren't ready to talk about it, can you give me a day when you can?
Hubby: I don't know
Me: Will it would be nice if we could set a timeframe because I want to work this out
Hubby: Ok, how about next week at 4:00p.m. after I get off from work (saying this annoyingly)>>
You husband is trying to communicate with you and
Defleppardgal
"Me: Of course not. I understand you don't want to talk about it and I need to respect you, please believe me when I say that, however, all I ask is we try and talk. I don't want you to shut me out."
This is a contradiction.
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I learned this from my counselor that if my hubby doesn't want to talk then ask him to give you a time to when he can talk. Therefore, I was actually listening to her advice.
I guess I just wanted to talk to him. He was starting to talk but he talks as he is walking off. I'm sorry, but I think that's rude. Maybe the way I push isn't out of respect but neither talking when head out the door.
Ok, I'm starting to get it...if he says it ONCE, then back off.
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I did do that and that was my intention. I wanted to give him the letter of apology and leave it at that. But he said something and that something was "you still don't understand why I am upset". When he told me that was I just supposed to let him walk out and not saying anthing? I thought that was he way of trying to communicate with me, therefore, I tried talking with him. Had he not said a word and thanked me and just left, of course we wouldn't have had that conversation.
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I wrote that letter to apologize. The only thing I wanted to accomplish was give him the letter today.
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He has NEVER come to me in our relationship. In the conversation piece he says he tells me why he's upset, but I don't listen. And I think the reason why I don't listen is because we are in the "middle" of a fight.
If he were to come up to me in peace (like after dinner) and say I'm ready to talk, then of course I'm going to really listen. But this has never been done.
>>I learned this from my counselor that if my hubby doesn't want to talk then ask him to give you a time to when he can talk. Therefore, I was actually listening to her advice.<<
There's a time and a place for using this advice. If he doesn't want to talk because he's watching footy or perhaps caught up in a work project, he can schedule you a time in advance. However, if he's not READY to talk, then it's a different scenario.
>>He has NEVER come to me in our relationship.<<
It's because all the 'talks' that the two of you have end in arguement. If you can't discuss golf clubs without fighting, how are you supposed to discuss serious matters? He already knows that raising an issue would be a waste of time - therefore, it's unrealistic to expect him to do so.
When he feels that you can accept his thoughts without turning it into WWIII (like the golf clubs and hand washing), then he'll come to you with other issues. You've got to show him that you can listen without arguing. And you don't need to pin him down in order to achieve this.....it's a matter of showing it through your everyday actions.
Hi, Casey! You are working really hard with your counselor, and learning a lot. It's great that you're putting into practice what you are learning there--good practice for all your relationships, not just your relationship with your husband. It must be frustrating to be doing all this work, and not have your husband respond as you're expecting him to, as well as hearing from us that you're still "doing it wrong."
When I read about your arguements with your husband I have to smile, becusae they remind me so much of arguements I used to have with my husband earlier in our marriage. That comment is intended to give you hope that these difficulties can be resolved--I think we all believe that.
My suggestions have to do with comments you made in the other thread. In responding to another poster, you said, "On a message board, we can't "hear" how the words sound." That is true of many of us in speaking, as well. We can hear what the other person sounds like just fine (think of the many times you've heard a parent say, "Don't you take that tone of voice with ME, young lady!"), but we can't always hear ourselves. Body language and tone of voice are important aspects of any message we want to convey, and you may want to work on those with your counselor, to make sure you're conveying the message you intend.
The second thing is your concern about being right. You frequently ask, "Was I wrong about that?" or observe, "I felt I was in the right because . . . ." Wanting to be right polarizes an interaction. If you're right, he has to be wrong. HAS to be, and that will be the end of your discussion, because no one wants to be wrong. Think, instead, of being EFFECTIVE--in other words, ask yourself not "How can I show him I'm right?" but "How can I defuse this situation?" It takes practice, but after awhile it becomes more like second nature (and you become known as a diplomat!).
All that being said, we all also have to recognize that your husband is a man who thinks relationships should just happen, and who has brought with him into the marriage the same obdurate insistence on being right that you have, as evidenced by his sincere belief that you actually KNOW what you do to annoy him, you just refuse to acknowledge and stop it. It will take a long time and a lot of patience to help him past these obstacles to good communication. You have made an excellent start; now you need to keep working with your counselor to develop your ability to be effective and to use appropriate body language and tones of voice.
Seems like you are getting the brunt of this...it is the nature of the board. We can not give him advice so we are trying to help you. You are trying and that is really really important. Irresective of some of the communication mistakes that you are making he also sounds like he is just as bad and frankly sounds immature and arrogant.
I am not sure if you realize that saying "let's talk about our relationship" is just about as scary to many men as saying "we have to remove your testicles."
He has done something you have trouble doing....he has compartmentalized his feelings about you and the relationship. He has decided he does not know exactly how he feels and he doesn't think he can figure it out without a lot of emotional upset, so he has locked it away in a box and gone back to his apparently never ending golf game. With it locked away he is now capable of going out and having a great time playing golf with his buddies and not thinking about it. It is just the way lots of male minds work.
So he needs some time to process this, in a "cave," and depending on how conflicted he is it may take awhile....days or even a week or more. Do your best to give him some space and see if he comes around. Ok to check in with him in a few days and ask if he would like to chat, but if he says no leave it at that. If he cools out and starts to process this he will want to talk to you to get it resolved, he is not likely to want to compartmentalize it forever (he really does want to be in a happy and fulfilling relationship and an always willing and enthusiastic golf partner).
One last thought.....do not ever chase him when he walks away. Only bad can come from that. It is absolutely rude on his part but you do not want to send the message to him that if he leaves you will chase him (and potentially several other bad messages).
Keep trying, P.
Last night when hubby came home I told him "I want to do a better job in respecting you, I'm sorry for pushing you into trying to talk earlier this evening"
I could use some help.
4 things that I would like suggestions on and they are:
1. How do I deal with his abrasive tone at times? (A few months ago, I brought this to his attention that his tone comes across with abrasiveness sometimes and he said "I'm not trying to", however, its hard for me to focus on what he's trying to say when he uses this tone with me)
2. Usually when he tells me how he feels, it when we are both yelling and screaming, so how can I push the yelling and screaming aside to focus on what he's trying to say? And he wonders why I don't remember....it because we are yelling and screaming when he tells me his feelings.
3. How to I handle while he is talking he starts walking away. I totally understand him talking as he is grabbing his keys and says "I'll be home around 7:00p.m. and kisses me goodbye, therefore he is talking as he starts walking away. However, when he say "You still don't understand why I'm upset" as he talking while walking away and heading to the door, I think that's just freaking RUDE. How can I handle when he does this and he does this many times?
4. I must have really pissed off my hubby because he is still upset with me and its in the 3rd day since then arguement ended. When he said "You still don't understand why I am upset". Is this normal of being this upset and having it so far last 3 days? I'm not the most patient woman. He said "I need to work on some things for me"....well, if he wants a divorce, why prolong it? I have to admit, I don't want the divorce, however, that's me. This is too much for me to handle, especially since I am unemployed looking for work. Since this relationship began, this is the first time an arguement has carried on for this long. Usually are arguements end in a day or a day and a half. So, what are suggestions on how to deal with this while I give him space?
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I'm not sure what comment you are referring to.
Edited 7/19/2006 11:05 am ET by casey0201
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Hi, Casey.
I'm the one who made the statement above, and the comment to which it refers is that your fights with your husband remind me of fights I had with my husband early in our marriage. Since my marriage has lasted for almost 35 years, having disagreements similar to yours early on obviously did not prove to be the kiss of death.
You can not control his actions only your reactions.
If he walks away, he walks away, if he yells, he yells, if he has an abrasive tone, he has an abrasive tone, if he wants to stew for 2 weeks he will stew for 2 weeks. Unless he wants to stop doing these things he will not and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you can do to make him stop.
Are these acceptable behaviors to you in the person you are going to spend almost every day for the rest of your natural life with? If not then don't accept them. If they are just not what you prefer, but you can accept them, then stop trying to change them. If they are unacceptable then you say.....either we get some counseling to fix our communicaiton issues or I can not continue in this marriage ---- don't say that as a threat to try to get him to comply, only say it if it is what you really mean and feel and if you would rather be divorced and living without someone that does these things more than you want to be married to him and living with them.
I had a serious girlfriend once where for the most part our communication was good, however, when we had a disagreement she needed to talk about it for hours on end....immediately and could do nothing else until we did. I needed a cooling off period (hours or a day) and for it to resolve itself once we talked in more like 1/2 hr to hour. I just could not handle replaying over and over again every last bit of the disagreement for hours on end (it was literally emotional torture for me)...I am sorry, you are sorry, here is how we got to this point and here is how we are gonna do better..... was what I needed, she needed the long deeply emotional version full of crying and reanalyzing every action and syllable to get past the issue. We tried lots of stuff including counseling but in the end we discovered that this mismatch was a deal breaker for both of us, no one was right or wrong, we just could not give each other a fundamental thing we needed..... and so we broke up to find the right person for each of us.
Good luck, P.
::How to I handle while he is talking he starts walking away. I totally understand him talking as he is grabbing his keys and says "I'll be home around 7:00p.m. and kisses me goodbye, therefore he is talking as he starts walking away. However, when he say "You still don't understand why I'm upset" as he talking while walking away and heading to the door, I think that's just freaking RUDE. How can I handle when he does this and he does this many times?
This is rude. But it's also passive-aggressive - it's the 'I don't want to talk about it, but let me give you a 'dig' on my way out.' Ask your counselor for tips.
Carrie
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