Am I wrong or is he selfish???

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-05-2004
Am I wrong or is he selfish???
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Mon, 02-13-2006 - 11:52pm
Hi all.
I haven't posted for a couple years and I have to say, things are going better, but DH and I have managed to get ourselves into a serious pit again...
He's turning 30 in a couple weeks, but to give you all some back ground (since he SWEARS turning 30 has nothing to do with it): 2 years ago, DH started talking about his desire to raise kids. We finally have our own place (yeah!) - a little 2 bedroom condo in a decent, family oriented neighborhood and over those 2 years, I've been thinking about it and this past year have had a fire lit in my heart to become a parent as well. Since I have some major fertility issues, and I was adopted, we had settled upon adopting a little girl from Korea. I couldn't be happier. I was really looking forward to telling our friends and family and DH seemed so happy and in love with the idea. Not just for me, but he was actually in love w/ it as well...
Well, we started cleaning out the "office" to turn it into a nursery and then start the paperwork, when something happened. I noticed there was a girl at work he was putting a lot of time and energy into. She was just an innocent friend, but DH got too emotionally involved with a girl he worked with a few years back and I was afraid he was sending her the wrong signals (accepting gifts of boxes of chocolate at work, and she gave him a ride home from work once - which is over an hour out of her way - and he invited her up on a night he knew I wouldn't be home, but he thought him and buddy of his were going out for drinks, but instead the buddy showed up at door w/ beers, and I called DH twice during the night and he didn't call me back... very LONG STORY w/ lots of miscommunications). So I asked him to please keep her friendship at work and not hangout outside of work. He was not very happy with this at all, and I guess that's where all the trouble started. He basically told me "no", that it was completely innocent and by keeping her as a friend outside of work, he would be able to prove that to me. (I'm complete confused on that one.) After about 2 weeks, he said he wouldn't hang out with her alone outside of work until he "figured things out". But that's when I started to realize "ya know, is he really thinking like a family man?"
Basically, over several talks, we discovered he's depressed and feels like he hasn't accomplished enough in his life. This hurt me because taking the step to become a larger family was, to me a HUGE accomplishement. I believed it was his dream as well, so you can imagine my shock when he said that he still does want to raise a family with me, but right now he needs to look at himself and be proud of what he sees in the mirror - which means, to him, he needs to put on 10 more lbs of muscle, finish his 2nd black belt, and take more gemology courses. All of these things leave his schedule like this:
5am - wake up and go to the gym
6am - go from the gym to work
5pm- leave work and come home
7pm - go to Ken po (Mon, Thrus, Fri * Sat from 9am-1:30pm)
9pm - come home and get ready to do it all the next day
On days when he's adding in this gemology class, I won't see him after work at all. He'll go straight from work to the class and won't be home until after 10pm. I work from 6am-2:30pm, so I end up trying to take care of everything around the house. Who can blame DH for wanting to sit around when he's home, and not jump on the house work after long days like that,ya know?
I asked him to please start focusing some energy at home again, so we scheduled Tuesday night as "date night". One thing that has frustrated me about our date nights is that I end up planning them all. It's like I want him to be excited, as he used to be, when he'd plan something fun to share with me. Now it's "What do you want to do?" I've tried self help books and he shoves them away, humoring me by reading a few pages before he lets them gather dust. I've asked that he go to therapy, and he says "sure, but they are already going to tell me I need to do things that make me feel good about me."
I just feel like those things are taking him out of the home more and more. Sure, he feels great about himself, which will indirectly effect us, but I guess I find difficulty understanding how gaining 10lbs of muscle, or getting another black belt, or taking more gemology courses will help him be a better father? He says he doesn't want his child to look at him and see shadows of shame.
To go further into his background, shame is a strong factor in his family. He was abused in just about every way you can think of by his father. He's decided to break that cycle, which is wonderful. He's never talked down or laid a hand on me, nor anyone else. But at the same time, I wonder what damage it truly did- and if that is what is rearing it's ugly head now that he's a few weeks away from 30 and we were on the cusp of making what I believed was our shared dream come true.
Last Christmas, we missed the little girl we didn't have yet. I don't want to spend many other Christmas' like that.
Any advice?
Thanks!
- Jay

- J. Darling

Singehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/JDarling/Headshots/Picture001.jpgr, Songwriter, Author for Celebr

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 02-14-2006 - 12:21am

Welcome back Teyar, great to see you again! (though I'm sorry you're having problems)

Of course I recognized you as soon as I peeked in on the board. I won’t be able to get to your post for a bit yet, but I wanted to provide the links to your previous posts as soon as I could so that others who might be able to get to your post before I do can get a better feel for your situation and history and as a result be better able to offer thoughts and suggestions that fit your actual situation and can be more helpful to you.

You might read through your old posts too, many find reading their old posts very helpful and enlightening; they’re able to see situations more clearly than they could when they were in the middle of them and are able to see improvement – or lack of, among other things - in their situations. I hope you find it as enlightening as many do:


Tired of working so hard...
Says he "understands" but...
Talk to DH last night...
A little "too far" behind me...
Won't have to worry about walking!
A game plan for change

I’ll be back soon!








~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-05-2004
Tue, 02-14-2006 - 12:28am
Thanks!
Well, living situation has improved. Jobs have improved. Money is still tight, but we're not starving. I've started persuing my own interests more (in fact, I recently took up the Violin! :) ). And I'm far more vocal about the car situation. I still don't like that we have one, but it's life for now. We used to commute together so I'd have the car all day, but I started working an earlier shift, so a couple of co-workers who live near me now help me out w/ rides. But when I need the car, DH will drive from his work to mine to bring it to me (taking a long lunch break) w/o complaint. So there is some improvement. He just keeps slipping back into these funks... :P
- Jay

- J. Darling

Singehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/JDarling/Headshots/Picture001.jpgr, Songwriter, Author for Celebr

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 02-14-2006 - 2:59am

Teyar, the only difference I see in your situation is where you live.....you say "DH and I have managed to get ourselves into a serious pit again..." quite frankly, I don't see *you* in this much at all. A couple of thoughts....


In April 2005, the game plan was that he was going to go back to therapy. Did he? It doesn't sound like it and it if he did, it certainly doesn't sound like he stayed around to work anything out.


He says, "...they are already going to tell me I need to do things that make me feel good about me." I say they're probably going to say he's trying to avoid the real issue by clouding it with so many activities and/or is trying to run away from facing the real situation. He may feel great about himself, but it sounds like he only feels great as long as he's keeping himself so busy that he doesn't have time to face his real issues. At the very least, they're going to ask him where you and his marriage fit into this; it doesn't sound like you have much time with him at all.


You say "I asked him to please keep her friendship at work and not hangout outside of work.", "I asked him to please start focusing some energy at home again", "One thing that has frustrated me about our date nights is that I end up planning them all", "I've tried self help books and he shoves them away", and "I've asked that he go to therapy". What I'm hearing is you doing all the trying and him doing all the running and avoiding.


In my opinion? Until he deals with this in therapy nothing's going to be resolved. Problem is the only one who's interested in really resolving this issue is you. He's too busy avoiding it. You said your husband was abused as a child. Childhood issues that aren't resolved get revisited big time at the time parenthood starts rearing its head. All those old feelings come up when we start thinking about being in those kinds of roles again (parent/child).


Teyar, I have to tell you there are some consistencies that continue to come up that very likely don't have anything to do with his childhood issues. His inappropriate involvement with women. Not just once, but twice. And he continues to deny and defend it, even continuing it despite the fact that doing so hurt his marriage, your level of trust in him and his credibility. The situation you described isn't at all acceptable and he knew it. From what you said, the "miscommunications" weren't miscommunications, they were half truths and avoidances designed to keep you from knowing the truth. That's a problem, a big problem. Doing it twice says he didn't learn it was a mistake the first time, it says he thinks it's permissible for him and something he can do if he wants, as long as he hides it from you. Not a good thing. His selfishness and seemingly total focus on himself and what he wants. Where do you fit in in this marriage? You have one car and he's off doing things every night of the week. So basically, you're stuck at home while he's off doing what he wants. That's not mature, adult, caring, responsible behavior. That's selfish and uncaring. And it's consistent. You said, " so I end up trying to take care of everything around the house. Who can blame DH for wanting to sit around when he's home, and not jump on the house work after long days like that,ya know?" Well, sorry, but his outside activities are his own choice and they do not mean he's off the hook for his fair share of the responsibilities at home. Home is not a choice, it's a must. Activities are a choice and home still needs to get done -- by him. So basically, he's off playing while you have no play time because you have to do all the housework since he does none and since you don't have a second car, you can't go anywhere anyway. Car or no car -- do your share of the work (and I mean half, no part of his) then sit, relax, play your violin (good for you!), whatever, but doing his share is enabling him to continue to be a self-centered brat.


You said " Last Christmas, we missed the little girl we didn't have yet." Sweetie, I don't think *we* missed a thing. All the missing was done by *you*. He's not into this. Adding a child to this would squarely add to your workload alone. He'd continue to play while you'd have a child to take care of on your own. I don't think that's what you want, and I don't think it's what you want for a child either. I understand you want a child, but adding a child to this situation will not make it better, it will make it worse, I promise you. Adding a child to a strong, solid relationship is taxing and a challenge to the relationship, it would amplify your problems immensely.


Have you read your old posts? What are you willing to do to change this situation? More thoughts after I hear your response....


Sorry, I know I've hit hard and I know it wasn't what you wanted to hear.








~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-05-2004
Tue, 02-14-2006 - 9:47am

Well, he came home from Ken Po last night, and finally said that he hasn't been honest with me from the start (or perhaps with himself as well). He let me know that he will never be okay with working a 9-5 and coming home to his family. That he needs outside activity. We all need it. I told him that I appreciate the honesty. And that I have some serious thinking to do to see if that's enough for me. Granted, I don't want someone who's stiffeling me - but at the same time, I want a man who takes pride in his family life and finds his strength there, not necessarily on how many belts he has, who he's friends with, or where he is in his career. If there is something I learned in my childhood, it's that that is where a lot of my strength and my family's strength comes from. We went through bankrupcy when I was a child. We went through times of plenty. I've seen my parents in excellent physical shape and in poor physical shape, but in the end, they did whatever they did together, easy or hard.

As for the child, he says that's what he wants. Heck, he brought the whole thing up to start with.

I very much agree with the aviodance tactics. I'm thinking that he doesn't really even know HOW to work on things at home. And I also agree that I'm doing all (or significantly more of) the trying. For example, I thought he was going to these gemology courses outside of work to better himself, but I wonder, since I found out his co-workers were going with him. So to me, it sounds a lot like a great excuse to hang out w/ the the co-workers again. Also, it's interesting that he can't remember to make a dentist appointment for either of us, but he called all over heck and back to find these gemology classes.

He did go to therapy for about 2 months, once or twice a week. Things were great. Then his therapist moved away and he stopped going. Evidently she thought he was fine, would make a great parent, etc etc....

He mentioned that he felt that I need therapy as well. It couldn't hurt! I'm willing. Not thrilled about it, but if that's what I have to do to get him to go back, count me in. I offered to go as a couple and he looked like a deer in headlights, and said something like "yeah, sure, maybe, but we need to go individually first."

Last night I let him do the housework he said he'd get to. He brought up the laundry that I started, and then started digging through his Ken Po bag for something... Laying on the bed I finally asked him "Are you going to fold those before they get musty or do you need help?" very nicely. He started folding them and putting them away.

I did talk to him about being very aware that if we bring a child into this, I'll be doing the brunt of the work. I told him that I'm not sure I'm ready to be a single parent, so I guess I'll just have to put that on hold. He wasn't happy to hear that, but it was right after he told me that he needs more outside of home rather than working and coming home to his family. Granted, who doesn't need that? I know even I need down time away from everything, but I did say I'm not okay with having to pencil in family time. It takes priority for me. So, if he needs more outside of home and I need more at home, then I'll have to decide if this works for me. He asked me to hang in there with him. I said with counseling I'm willing to. But I can't continue like this.

As for the car thing, it has gotten much better. If I ever need, or would like the car at night, I just have to ask and drive over and drop him off and pick him up. Such are the joys of having 1 car.
- Jay

- J. Darling

Singehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/JDarling/Headshots/Picture001.jpgr, Songwriter, Author for Celebr

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Tue, 02-14-2006 - 10:02am

I'm sorry but you are ignoring the pink elephant sitting in the middle of the room.

Peace,

Di

***If you cannot define yourself, your circumstances will.***

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-05-2004
Tue, 02-14-2006 - 2:54pm

Hi Di - Thanks for your feed back.

We have a lot of work to do, that much is for sure. And I'm glad we didn't start the adoption because I'm not ready to be a single parent. And yes, I told him all that last night when he said he honestly needs a lot of interaction outside of home. I think some interaction outside of home is healthy. I'm just more of a homebody myself.

As for sharing interests, I have definately worked on that. I have stopped in to pick him up from Ken Po recently a couple times. He doesn't know what it's like to wait because I think he's used to me being late from time to time, so his classes almost ALWAYS run at least 1/2 an hour over. So when I show up, he's still working out. So I have to sit and wait. I do go to his tournament every year (in fact, I try to book a hotel and make some romance in the weekend together)and sing for them. DH usually doesn't even compete - he just body gaurds some grand masters, so he ends up on his feet all day and often into the night (I can't BELIEVE those old guys last until 3am but they often do). But I go to support him.

For his birthday this year, he doesn't know it yet, but I've planned a weekend trip to a nearby lake, just the 2 of us and the dog. He loves to fish, but hasn't done it since he's moved out here, so I'm getting some fishing rods and renting a boat and going fishing w/ him. We're staying in a cabin and can go hiking w/ the dog, etc, all weekend long. So I am actively trying to take more interest in what he's doing.

I just feel like he's drawing his strength from all those things around him - conditional things, like job, martial arts classes, physical shape, rather than more concrete things, like family. And by doing so, he's alienating the family portion, and may lose the 1 concrete thing he has going for him.

- Jay

- J. Darling

Singehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/JDarling/Headshots/Picture001.jpgr, Songwriter, Author for Celebr

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 02-14-2006 - 3:21pm

But Teyar, the point is -- "we" aren't working on anything, you are.








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Tue, 02-14-2006 - 3:50pm

Hi Jay,

I have to say, one thing that really bothers me is when people get married and still expect to act single. It's almost like they want someone to be there for them whenever they want it, but not to have to do anything in return. For a long time at the beginning of our M, H would get mad that he'd have to come home and deal with me and a baby. It was like, HELLO! You are MARRIED. You started a FAMILY. That means that when you come home from work you don't get to do whatever you want to the WHOLE time. But see, working is what he was doing for the family. The rest of the time should have been his. (That's how he saw it.) Now, I agree that everyone needs M&B time (mindless and brainless is what we call it in my house) and everyone needs a life and independent hobbies. But there so has to be a balance with FAMILY. And if there is no balance then you become his housekeeper that puts out. And that isn't what I would want.

It sounds like he wants to be single but he doesn't want to do it alone. That he's too insecure to be alone. But for all intents and purposes, he is single.

And yes, drawing strength from temporary things that can and will change, drawing your very essence from them, all that says is once they are gone he will be looking for something else to fill it. And it won't be you.

I'm not saying dump his butt. I'm saying to definitely get help and please don't put a child into this mess. A child deserves a daddy who has time, a lot of time (because it's more about quantity in my book).

Jen

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-05-2004
Tue, 02-14-2006 - 7:09pm
Hi Jenn -
Thanks for your comments. Very much appericiate that you've been through something similar! Yes, I'm glad we don't have a child right now. Too much going on at the moment.
What some may refer to as excuses aren't me excusing his behavoir (or certainly aren't intended that way). They are me finding my fault in this as well. When I mentioned to DH that I had made a therapy appointment but was concerned on how I'd get there and get the dog taken care of, he said "Take the car those days." He immediately offered.
I also agree very much with the single mentality, that that is what is happening here (has happened here). I will definately work to bring that up.
So today is Valentine's day and for today, I'm putting things aside (or trying to) and just enjoy the day I have planned (DH and I trade off planning Vday. Last year was his year, this is my year). He sent me roses to work, which did help me feel good (though I know it doesn't take a rocket scientist to send roses on Valentine's day -he could have very well done nothing as well since it's my year to plan).
What I hope he'll get out of counseling is this: He told me last week that he knows he's pushed my last nerve (something he's NEVER said before). I would like him to try to figure out why he pushes against me so hard.
I did put my foot today and stop a situation from occuring. I have the car today and DH said "You know, if you can't pick me up on time because you're setting stuff up, that's fine. I can walk down to the brewery and have a beer." It felt like there was something he wasn't telling me, so I said "No way. We have a date. I wouldn't be late for my date. That would be rude." He went with it... but if I had let it go and said "Okay," I'd lay good money that he'd be sharing a beer w/ the oh-so-single Maria, helping her feel better because she doesn't have a date for V-day.
(Cue eye roll)
So therapy it is. We both have appointments made.
- Jay

- J. Darling

Singehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/JDarling/Headshots/Picture001.jpgr, Songwriter, Author for Celebr

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 02-15-2006 - 11:32am
My intent was not to say it was your fault and I'm sorry you took it that way.








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"

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