Anyone have a clue?

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-22-2006
Anyone have a clue?
83
Fri, 08-18-2006 - 1:51pm

Because I don't. My hubby and I had another fight. My hubby was playing with my dog (I bought my dog a new ball at pets mart) After my hubby gets done playing with my dog, he goes into the computer room and starts playing on-line poker. While both of us are in the computer room, my dog all the sudden starts peeing on the carpet right behind my hubby's chair. My dog is pretty much house-trained. He has only had 2 accidents in the last year. After my dog peed, my hubby just kind of laughs and says "And you want to buy a house"? He continues on to say that he doesn't feel a dog should go pee at all on the carpet. So, yea, I got a little bent stating that "ok, so now that I have a dog, we can never own a house". And my hubby replies "maybe". I was thinking just because my dog pees on the carpet TWICE in the last year that this will stop us from buying a house. So, I was pissed...however, I didn't want it to escalate like the arguement we had several weeks ago. A few minutes later, I give my hubby a kiss and thinking things are ok. But the way my hubby gives me a kiss, I felt like his on-line poker was a bit more important than me. He was playing 2 hands. So, the conversation went like this:

Me: Sorry to bother you by giving you a kiss
Hubby: That's alright you weren't
Me: Yes, I was. That wasn't really a kiss
Hubby: The kiss wasn't any different that any other kiss
******For the past month, there have been no kissing other than a peck on the lips when he comes home

Me: I don't know if I even turn you on anymore
Hubby: What do you mean?
Me: We aren't affectionate. I thought things were ok, but something has been wrong for the last month and I can't put my finger on it. I've noticed you haven't really been affectionate for the past month(***See, I've been saying in my posts/thread for a while that something is wrong...I thought maybe it was taking him longer to come around since our last arguements a month ago...but I got the feeling maybe it isn't)
Hubby: Yea, your right I haven't really been affectionate
Me: Why is that?
Hubby: It just something I have to deal with
Me: **Confused
Hubby: I don't want to talk about it because we would end up in a fight. If I tell you, then I'll be the bad guy and if I don't tell you then I'm still the bad guy.
Me: ***Very confused and starting to get pissed
Me: Therefore, you don't want to talk about it
Hubby: No, I don't
Me: So are you saying you will never be affectionate in our marriage
Hubby: It has nothing to do with being affectionate
Me: ***Very confused and getting more pissed
Me: So, I'm supposed to guess at what you won't tell me
Hubby: Just let it go
Me: I feel communication is the most important thing in a marriage. Don't you feel things need to be talked out
Hubby: On some matters I do. I'm just not going to talk about this and I know you want to know what it is but I'm not going to tell you
Me: Don't you know this affects our marriage
Hubby: Yes, I do. Since I have to deal with this and I'm part of this marriage, yes, I know this affects our marriage
Me: Well, you are being unfair to me
Hubby: Its me that has to deal with this
Me: Are you saying that you will never be affectionate with me (***Thinking that its been me that's initiating MOST of the affection in the last couple of weeks.)
Hubby: But your not affectionate. So, are you blaming me because I'm not affectionate
Me: ***Thinking this is the same type of conversation we had several months ago with him thinking that I don't initiate affection. But I'm getting pissed because he hasn't even noticed that I have been affectionate...giving him a kiss when he gets home, taking his hand when we walk to the car, or putting my hand on his shoulder when he's on the pc or even giving him a kiss while he's on the pc. Man, what a freaking waste of my time thinking he hasn't noticed any of my affection
Me: You haven't answered my question
Hubby: Which question is that?
Me: Do I still turn you on?
Hubby: Yes, sometimes
Me: Well, that's reassuring. Why are you getting upset with me. I'm just trying to figure out something that you won't tell me. I feel communication is very important.
Hubby: We don't affectionately communicate.
Me: ***Very confused on what he meant by "affectionately communicate"....or he might have said "communicate affectionately"...
***By this time we are both pissed. By the way, while we are having this conversation my hubby has not looked once at me because he was playing poker on his pc.
Me: I just need affirmation.
Hubby: I know what you mean
Me: You don't think me sending you that ecard was affirmation
Hubby: It was great. (Sounding a bit sarcastic)
Me: Well, I thought you would appreciate it
Hubby: I did. I said it was great
Me: I just need to feel loved by you and I don't. (***I leave the room) After a few minutes, I give him a kiss and say "whatever you won't tell me, I need to respect it". And then I leave the room. I must admit, as I'm in bed, I'm really starting to stew.

After having this conversation I am MORE confused. I thought things were starting to be good, but I guess I'm just too naive. I told you guys in another post that last week while we were golfing, he just came up and hugged me and kissed me on the golf course. It really melted me. And yesterday, I sent him an ecard while he was at work and he called me to thank me.

Can anyone figure out what my hubby meants by when he said "we don't affectionately communicate"? I'm totally lost.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-30-2006
Thu, 08-24-2006 - 10:22am

defleppardgal,

Why in the world would someone say they have pity for you? You seem like someone who's really got it together.

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-13-2006
Fri, 08-25-2006 - 12:56pm

ldack1,


Without going into too many details, it's a touchy subject, I was on a debate board.

Defleppardgal

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-22-2006
Fri, 08-25-2006 - 5:03pm

<>

I do agree with you to a point, however, I don't want getting laid to be like a wham, bam, thank you ma'am type of a laid.

<>

I found your statement very interesting. Here let me explain. From the looks of things (as well as some of the advice on this board), it seems like my hubby lost interests in "initiating" any type of affection...and I understand it...because now, (even though I've only initiated affection about 5 times in the last 2 weeks), I'm starting to get tired of initiating affection because he's not initiating it back, other than the peck on the lips when he gets home from work. The thing I find interesting in your statement is you say you initiating affection at least 99% of the time....why is it that you don't get tired of initiating? What I'm about to say is I find this funny....here it is you guys have all said its a give and take when initiating affection and not just ONE person initiates it but yet isn't initiating sex the same as initiating affection? I would get tired of initiating sex 99% of the time like my husband gets tired of initiating affection 99% of the time. Hopefully, I'm making sense.

I have to admit, its STILL very hard for me to initiate affection, especially now...because of the fact, my hubby hasn't initiated affection at all. When I told you guys that 2 weeks ago while we were golfing, he pulled me close and gave me a hug and kiss...well, since then that's been the extent of him initiating any type of affection...except for last weekend, when he wanted sex. I still need to overcome how to initiate affection FIRST and still have issues with it....mainly because of the lack of affection there is between us. I think if I know what I know now back when my hubby and I first began dating and there was alot of affection, I think it would be easier for me to "initiate" affection. Because there isn't that much affection and I'm not used to initiating affection, its become even harder. Hope this make sense.

So, right now, I haven't really been initiating hardly any affection. Last night while my hubby was on the pc and I wrapped my arms around him, he didn't respond (like touching my arm/hand), therefore, I stopped. Or I'll give him a kiss just because and he doesn't give me a kiss just because other than a peck on the lips when he gets home from work. Maybe he's waiting for me to do more....OR...maybe he's accepted the fact that I'm not very affectionate. I "can" be very affectionate...unfortunately, the lack of affection between us doesn't help at all.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-31-2004
Sat, 08-26-2006 - 7:00am
I agree with everything you say.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-30-2006
Tue, 08-29-2006 - 3:25pm

Casey,

I do understand what you are saying about why would your DH get upset about initiating affection 99% of the time, and then expect you to initiate sex 99% of the time. With me, no, I don't get tired of initiating. It's my personality, I enjoy it, and it's not his personality. Sure at the beginning he initiated lots, but that was during the first dating, honeymoon phase. The difference here I think is that once I initiate, he responds. If you are initiating repeatedly and he doesn't respond then yes, you have every right to be upset. My ex was a very touchy, affectionate person. I am not nearly as much. Because there was a breakdown in the marriage, and a lack of interest on my part, I didn't respond ever. With my now DH, often times I'll walk by him and give him a quick hug or something, and he doesn't respond, but I don't take it personally in any way, and know it's not the same situation. We don't have a break down elsewhere in our marriage. I think you two should both quit keeping scores about who does what, and really work to find out where the breakdown is. I think the lack of affection and sex is a result of it. It seems like you two end up fighting whenever you try and talk. Somehow you both need to start talking (not fighting) and work on finding what brought you together in the first place, and what you love about each other. If you are really trying Casey, and working on yourself and your part in this marriage, then he's going to have to step up and do his part too.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-22-2006
Tue, 08-29-2006 - 5:02pm

<>

Wow. If my hubby didn't respond to me giving him a hug, I would be offended and upset, especially, since I'm not too good at initiating affection first.

In fact, something happened today, but I didn't really make it a big deal. Here's what happened - I sent my hubby a text hoping he was having a good day and that I loved him. Well he called and thanked me for the message, but he didn't say I love you back, which kind of hurt. Its been soooo long since my hubby has said I Love you...yes, he responds back when I say it FIRST, however, he never says it first anymore. And now I'm getting tired of saying I love you FIRST....kind of like he's getting tired of initiating affection first. I'm also getting tired of doing something nice for him on a daily basis...like sending him a text message or calling to say I love you or how your day is, or sending him an ecard etc, because he doesn't do the same for me. It just gets tiring when ONE person is doing it and you don't get anything back. So, I guess I was trying and now maybe its time for me to stop because I don't get anything back from him. I really thought things were going good because over the weekend we were both affectionate, however, maybe its just all in my head that its all good when it really isn't. Guess I was just kidding myself.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-30-2006
Tue, 08-29-2006 - 5:45pm

Casey,

I remember hearing a speaker years ago. He said something I always remembered. He said "I love you is not a question, it's a statement, and since it's not a question then it doesn't require a response". I never forgot that, and I only say "I love you" to my husband as a statement and therefore he does not have to say it back to me. I say it because I want to, not because I'm trying to find out if he's feeling the same for me. If I wanted to know that, I'd have to specifically ask "do you love me". Make Sense???

If my DH is sitting there watching tv and I give him a hug and kiss, why should he have to give one back right then? Isn't that kind of the same as the whole "I love you" theory? I give the hugs, or kisses, or send the text messages not as a test to see if he'll respond, or respond how I want him to, but because I WANT TO. It's my statement to him about how I'm feeling, not a question, no response necessary.

Sometimes it sounds as if your DH has shut down, but then other times you'll talk of a hug or kiss that he's given you. It really makes me think that maybe you two have different expectations of a relationship.

I do think you are right in that you should stop sending texts, calling, etc if you are doing it as a question, requiring an answer in return.

I feel like you need to just quit trying so hard, have FUN, with and without your DH, and don't worry so much about what he's thinking. LIVE your life, talk with friends, keep looking for a job, take up a hobby, etc. Find things that fill and enrich your life and just don't worry!!!!!!!!

Hey, on the "making a 2nd marriage work" board there is a GREAT post I read. It's long but I pasted it here cause I think you'll like it. I know I loved it, and we can all learn from it no matter who we are.

The List That Saved My Marriage
What an inventory of my husband's shortcomings taught me
By Becky Zerbe

The day had come. I'd lasted as long as I could in my marriage. Once my husband, Bill, left for work, I packed a bag for myself and our 14-month-old son and left our home. It was the only year in our married life when we lived in the same town as my parents. Obviously the convenience of being able to run to Mom and Dad made my decision to leave Bill easier.

With a tear-stained, angry face, I walked into Mom's kitchen. She held the baby while I sobbed my declaration of independence. A washcloth and cup of coffee later, Mom told me she and Dad would help me. I was comforted to know they'd be there for me.

"But before you leave Bill," she said, "I have one task for you to complete."

Mom put down my sleeping son, took a sheet of paper and pen, and drew a vertical line down the middle of the page. She told me to list in the left column all the things Bill did that made him impossible to live with. As I looked at the dividing line, I thought she'd then tell me to list all his good qualities on the right hand side. I was determined to have a longer list of bad qualities on the left. This is going to be easy, I thought. My pen started immediately to scribble down the left column.

Bill never picked his clothes off the floor. He never told me when he was going outside. He slept in church. He had embarrassing, nasty habits such as blowing his nose or belching at the dinner table. He never bought me nice presents. He refused to match his clothes. He was tight with money. He wouldn't help with the housework. He didn't talk with me.

The list went on and on until I'd filled the page. I certainly had more than enough evidence to prove that no woman would be able to live with this man.

Smugly I said, "Now I guess you're going to ask me to list all Bill's good qualities on the right side."

"No," she said. "I already know Bill's good qualities. Instead, for each item on the left side, I want you to write how you respond. What do you do?"

This was even tougher than listing his good qualities. I'd been thinking about Bill's few, good qualities I could list. I hadn't considered thinking about myself. I knew Mom wasn't going to let me get by without completing her assignment. So I had to start writing.

I'd pout, cry, and get angry. I'd be embarrassed to be with him. I'd act like a "martyr." I'd wish I'd married someone else. I'd give him the silent treatment. I'd feel I was too good for him. The list seemed endless.

When I reached the bottom of the page, Mom picked up the paper and went to the drawer. She took scissors and cut the paper down the vertical line. Taking the left column, she wadded it in her hand and tossed it into the trash. Then she handed me the right column.

"Becky," she said, "take this list back to your house. Spend today reflecting on these things in your life. Pray about them. I'll keep the baby until this afternoon. If you sincerely do what I ask and still want to leave Bill, Dad and I will do all we can to assist you."

Facing facts
Leaving my luggage and son, I drove back to my house. When I sat on my couch with the piece of paper, I couldn't believe what I was facing. Without the balancing catalogue of Bill's annoying habits, the list looked horrifying.

I saw a record of petty behaviors, shameful practices, and destructive responses. I spent the next several hours asking God for forgiveness. I requested strength, guidance, and wisdom in the changes I needed to make. As I continued to pray, I realized how ridiculously I'd behaved. I could barely remember the transgressions I'd written for Bill. How absurd could I be? There was nothing immoral or horrible on that list. I'd honestly been blessed with a good man—not a perfect one, but a good one.

I thought back five years. I'd made a vow to Bill. I would love and honor him in sickness and health. I'd be with him for better or for worse. I said those words in the presence of God, my family, and friends. Yet only this morning, I'd been ready to leave him for trivial annoyances.

I jumped back in the car and drove to my parents' house. I marveled at how different I felt from when I'd first made the trip to see Mom. I now felt peace, relief, and gratitude.

When I picked up my son, I was dismayed by how willing I'd been to make such a drastic change in his life. My pettiness almost cost him the opportunity to be exposed daily to a wonderful father. Quickly, I thanked my mother and flew out the door to return home. By the time Bill returned from work, I was unpacked and waiting.

A new outlook
I'd love to say that Bill changed. He didn't. He still did all those things that embarrassed and annoyed me, and made me want to explode.

The difference came in me. From that day forward, I had to be responsible not only for my actions in our marriage, but also for my reactions.

I think back to one of the items: Bill slept in church. The minute he began to doze always marked the end of my worship time.

So often I thought he was rudely uninterested in the message—and my dad was the preacher! It didn't matter that Bill was unable to stay awake any time he sat for a longer period. The entire time he spent nodding, I spent fuming. I'd squirm in the pew, feeling humiliated. I'd wonder why I ever married this man. I knew he didn't deserve a wife as godly as I was.

Yet now I could see myself as I truly was. My pride was hampering a valuable portion of my life—my worship. This problem wasn't Bill's; it was mine. When Bill fell asleep in church, I began to bathe that time in gratitude and prayer. I took my eyes off Bill and myself and looked to God. Instead of leaving the services in anger, I left in joy.

It wasn't long before Bill noticed a difference. He remarked at lunch one Sunday, "You seem to be enjoying the services more lately. I was beginning to think you didn't like the preacher." My immediate instinct was to explain how he'd ruined so many services for me. But instead, I accepted his statement without defense.

Remaking the list
There have been many times through the years I've had to remake the list. I've continued to ask God to forgive my pathetic reactions and give me his wisdom in dealing with my marriage.

Fifteen years later, at the age of 49, Bill was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease. He had to quit his teaching job, leaving me to support our family, which has led to trying days and nights of worry. Watching him fight to maintain abilities to function daily has been inspiring to my sons, as well as to me. We've had to depend on our faith that God is in control—especially when we feel so out of control. We've searched the Bible for answers to questions we struggle to understand. We've spent hours with every emotion from anger to grief. We've asked, "Why?" We've claimed God's peace that passes all understanding.

Regrettably, many days I've run short on patience, even though I know Bill can't prevent himself from doing things that try my nerves. I realize my responsibility is to respond with the love God would have me show. I cry to God to love through me—because I know I'm not capable of loving Bill as God is capable of loving him.

Many times I've thanked God for a mother who was a spiritual mentor. Though she must have been tempted, she didn't preach to me or offer her opinion on my behavior. She guided me in discovering a truth that's saved a most treasured possession—my marriage. If I hadn't learned to respond as a Christian wife to Bill's small problems, I wouldn't be able to respond appropriately to his larger ones now.

My son came home one day and asked, "Mom, what are we going to do when Dad doesn't remember us?" My reply was, "We'll remember him. We'll remember the husband and father he was. We'll remember him for all the things he's taught us and the wonderful ways he's loved us."

After my son left the room, I chuckled. I was thinking of all the things I'd remember about this man who loved his family and his God. Many of those enduring memories are those same annoying little habits that made their way onto a list of bad qualities so many years ago.

Becky Zerbe is author of Laughing with My Finger in the Dam. Becky has been married to Bill for 29 years.
Source: www.christianitytoday.com/mp/2005/003/7.32.htm

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Tue, 08-29-2006 - 6:19pm

Casey, my husband never says "I love you" when he's at work because someone might hear him. When we end a phone call, I say "I love you" and he says "goodbye". It doesn't mean that he doesn't feel love, it just means he's uncomfortable saying it while at work. And I can't say I blame him because it would be pretty funny hearing a co-worker expressing love everyday. And it would probably embarrass everyone within hearing distance! I'm sure the co-workers would get a good laugh out of it.

There is such a thing as decorum in the work place and expressing love within hearing distance, spending time making ecards and romantic texts crosses the line in my eyes. Your husband is supposed to be working at work - not romancing you.

I also think you're expecting too much if you want romantic texts and ecards initiated by him. Just because you like to do them doesn't mean that they're HIS thing. Considering that I'm not romantic, I'd be extremely uncomfortable if someone actually *expected* me to return such gestures. I'd also get blase about them being on an overly frequent basis. It's like my sister and her boyfriend who sent her flowers weekly. After a while, the flowers changed from being something special to being just another bunch of flowers. It all got rather ho-hum.

You know the old saying "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". It's actually not such a good saying. Because others won't necessarily want to be treated in the same way you do. And don't expect someone to be lead by example, because it may quite simply not be their thing.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Tue, 08-29-2006 - 6:21pm
Excellent post! I agree on all points and love the post at the bottom.
Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-22-2006
Wed, 08-30-2006 - 1:25pm

My hubby and I had another fight yesterday. It really hurt me when I told my hubby that I love him and he responds back by "ME TOO". I mean WTF. He has NEVER responded with ME TOO regards if he is at work or not. He has always responded back by I Love You...until yesterday. So, I was hurt by his response, but I let it go. I went about my day dealing with the phone company and that didn't help me because they said the phone wasn't under warranty when it actually was because I bought it 3 months ago and FINALLY after arguing with them for about 30 minutes, they said ok and then I went to the driving range and didn't do really good hitting the golf ball (getting ready for a tourny) and then just feeling rejected because my hubby didn't say I Love You....that really bothered me.

My hubby called several times and I picked up the phone and told him about the phone company situation and didn't do well on the driving range....but these were just underlying issues. The REAL issue was it bothered me my hubby couldn't say I love you back. So, we got into an arguement. And I asked him in the heat of the moment "why he doesn't say I Love you FIRST". He used to all the time and then about several months ago he stopped saying it and the ONLY time I hear him say I Love You is if I say it FIRST. He told me "this is so stupid". I don't think it is. I think the reason why my hubby couldn't say I Love You and he just responded with ME too, is maybe he really doens't love me anymore.

Before the arguement we were supposed to met for dinner but then the argument happened. As we were arguing, he said that I like to push and push until he's pissed too. Needless to say we didn't have dinner. He had dinner by himself and I didn't come home until hours later.

When I did come home, he was on his pc playing on-line poker (he's really addicted to this game - he says he does it because its better than watching TV and he says he does like to play) and I didn't say a word. Took my dog out for a walk and then told him that I left some golf magazines on the counter and he said "yes, I saw them". And that was it.

This morning before he left work, he had his golf clothes on top of his laptop, therefore, I know he wants to go golfing after work. But I'm going to text message later on and tell him that I'm going golfing and won't be back until later tonight and that you are on your own for dinner. I'm doing this all because I'm HURT. I don't want to be with him right now nor do I want to speak with him.

You know, I've tried to let things go, but I guess its just not in my personality. I guess its just not the way I'm built. Or maybe I just don't know "how to let things go". Do you have any suggestions on what I can do when its in the heat of the moment and I should just let things go? How do you just let things go? And please don't say just let it go...that to me is easier said than done.

I'm also getting tired of my hubby playing on-line poker all the time. He plays until 1:00a.m.. He plays like 6 hours a night. It doesn't stop us from doing things, but as soon as we get home, he's playing on-line poker until 1 or 2 a.m.

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