Boyfriend's problematic "collection"
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| Fri, 08-11-2006 - 11:23am |
I apologize in advance for what is likely to be a fairly long post, but this is something I desperately need to get off my chest and hopefully find some insight so I can deal and move on.
I've been dating my boyfriend, K, for close to a year now, and we recently moved in together (about 6 weeks ago). It's the first time I've ever lived with a guy -- I didn't even have brothers growing up -- so this is my first really in depth introduction to the male mind. He's lived with one girlfriend in the past, but just for a few months.
For the most part, the transition has been fairly easy - we have similar tastes, values, lifestyles. No fighting about dirty dishes or wet towels on the floor -- we're both much too tidy for that!
However, one issue has been coming up repeatedly that has caused a fair bit of tension. Fortunately we're very good about keeping the lines of communication open and we're usually able to talk out any conflicts. But this one continues to show up, and since I've never lived with a guy before, I don't know how much of it is my needing to "chill" and adjust and how much is a real problem he needs to deal with.
The issue? Pictures of naked women. Prior to our relationship, K hadn't been in a long term relationship for about 7 years, and I'm grateful that he wasn't the type to fill those years with bed hopping. Instead, though, he developed what he has termed a "bad habit" of looking at and collecting photos of naked women on his computer.
He has a subscription to Playboy's Cyber Club and (in my opinion) quite a storehouse of photos on his computer, some which has also been built up from previous subscriptions to other websites. He says he's cancelled those subscriptions, and I believe him. He was finally willing to delete a bunch of stuff off one of his drives one afternoon last month after a particularly emotional conversation, but there are still a lot of photos and videos sitting on his C and D drives.
K has admitted a number of times that he's always known it was a problem he'd developed, and that the only way he'd ever be able to correct it was with the help of a solid partner. We both know I am that partner, as we've talked seriously about getting married next year.
He agreed that he needed to wean himself off of looking at this stuff so regularly, and it seemed to be working for awhile - I think he was only looking once or twice a week. Absolutely I can live with that! I'm not a prude. He's a healthy man in his mid 30's who has a biological drive to look at young, beautiful women in the buff. I'm not trying to take that away from him altogether - it would be both completely unrealistic and mean on my part!
But I'm certain he's back to checking it pretty regularly lately, sometimes every day, occasionally twice a day... and saving his "favourites" to his computer.
Is it normal to check it that often? As I said, I've never lived around guys (other than my father, and you can be certain he was very careful not to expose his 2 daughters to any of this stuff!). I also grew up with a particularly religious mother, and while my dad didn't share her religious views, he did respect her beliefs - so no subscription to Playboy or the like.
K still says periodically that he knows he's got a bad habit, but that it's really ingrained now. He seems unable/unwilling to decrease his "collection" any further, and I have occasionally noticed addictive language (i.e. you're just insecure, it's just a hobby, etc). He says that this is normal and healthy and I'm just not used to it because of my upbringing.
We're not *fighting* about this, but it's making me feel pretty hurt, which is bringing on some emotionally charged conversations. It's not an insecurity issue: I know he's attracted to me, that he loves me, he would never cheat on me, and our sex life is fairly good -- certainly some room for improvement, but we've talked about it a number of times (yes, foreplay *is* important!!) and it has started to get better and more frequent.
So, I need a reality check. Why does this bother me so much? Is a "collection" like his a normal thing? Is checking this sort of material that often a typical guy thing? Do you have any suggestions on how we can come to some sort of resolution?
He knows I've decided to turn messages boards like this one for feedback, and he encouraged it. He knows I need someone to talk to about what's going on and I definitely don't want my friends or my sister to know about what's happening in our personal life. I can't afford to go to a counsellor, nor do I know if that's necessary yet.
But I need to get this stuff off my chest and get some unbiased feedback. Holding in negative emotions is very destructive for me and I'm tired of feeling sad so often. The relationship is, with the exception of this one issue, extremely good and I don't want to damage it. I want to sort this out so K and I can move on and build a life together.
Your thoughts and advice are sincerely appreciated. Thanks for reading.
B.
Edited 8/11/2006 6:19 pm ET by bcbeamer

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A few questions for you, if that's okay...
What sort of resolution are you looking for?
> What sort of resolution are you looking for? Are you wanting him to perhaps only
> look at the pictures once a week rather than every day?
I guess I'd like to see changes on both sides:
(1) I want to learn to adjust a little more to the idea of him looking at this stuff. He's pointed out, and he's right, that by not having lived with men in the past, I haven't been exposed to this so it's probably a bigger deal to me than it would be to a woman who grew up with a couple of brothers.
(2) I do want him to reduce his looking at the pictures to once or twice a week instead of every day, especially since I know it has developed into a chronic thing in the past. As I told him during one particularly emotional conversation, I will not marry an addict.
> Do you feel that his viewing the pictures impacts your relationship? In what way?
I do feel that if he's looking at other women's bodies that frequently, it does affect the way he's looking at me. I don't feel as special - and I don't know if if I'm being unreasonable. He also seems to have more difficulty connecting with me if he's been looking at it a lot... I end up feeling more like a prop, if that makes sense.
> One way to find out is for him to see if he can go a week or two weeks without
> viewing any porn. If he's able to do it, great; if he can't, then that's a big red
> flag. One of the hallmarks of addiction is the slow ramping-up of the activity...
He was capable of doing it a few weeks ago and even vocalized that he had gone 6 days without looking at it - he seemed proud of himself. But it's ramping up again.
Maybe I just need to give him more time to himself to get it out of his system once a week. I work from home so as you can imagine, there's been a lot of togetherness. I expect making a point of giving him more alone time may help, so that's something I can do on my part to try to move towards a solution.
It's just difficult to do because I'm now becoming paranoid that every time I leave, he's leaping on to the computer to consume this stuff. And I desperately do not want to become a paranoid, snoopy, jealous woman... I'm better than that. But boy, those instincts are threatening to rear their ugly heads!! ;)
B.
Edited 8/11/2006 6:19 pm ET by bcbeamer
He's stated repeatedly that he has a "really bad ingrained habit." He agreed to cut it down to once a week or so and after doing that for awhile he's upped it back up. He saves way more pictures than he could ever need or look at. He's been doing it for 7 years and knows he can't stop without outside help.
Your boyfriend sounds like he as a pornography addiction problem. I know you aren't particularly bothered by it right now but I thought I'd give you the link to Families Damaged by Pornography http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-psfamporn . Some women there think porn is flat out wrong and some women didn't have a problem with it, until it took over their SO's lives and relationships. Maybe reading there will help.
Jen
Yep, that board is already in my "favourite boards" listing... and I sent the link of one particularly good thread to him by email to read. I think perhaps because it's not "porn", just naked women (and yes, Playboy is the more tastefully done of the stuff out there, but still...), he feels it's not really serious. He says he just likes to appreciate youth and beauty, and "that's what Playboy is about."
But I feel like there is a problem and I don't know if I'm just over-reacting. It's not like he's spending hours on it at a time... though it does feel like he has to check the Playboy website to get a "fix". He doesn't seem to check the stuff saved to his computer as often - it's more about going to the website "just to see what's new".
I worry that it's not going to get better and I hate the idea of leaving a relationship when everything else is so good. He's a really good man - thoughtful, supportive, comforting - and I know he loves and cares about me... but I don't know how to deal with this one problem. I'm frustrated and I hate feeling moody, sensitive and sad all the time... I seem to cry at the drop of a hat lately and I know this is not who I am.
I just don't know how to move forward. Maybe a couples counsellor really is the only answer at this point. I'd love for us to be able to deal with it on our own, but how long do you try for?
Edited 8/11/2006 12:38 pm ET by bcbeamer
One, you don't know how lucky you are to know about this BEFORE you get married. I'm one of the women on that board and I can say, it has not been a fun ride.
Naked women ARE porn. Period. Hell, my H started out with beautiful, young buff women. It's his preference still. But there are only so many and it only works so long. Then you branch out a little or get curious about other things you hear alluded to. And it starts heading downward. OR if the material looked at doesn't get worse, the time factor does.
Guys seem to have a HUGE issue with the addiction label. It took a couple of weeks after I knew there was a porn problem for H to admit that he hadn't been able to stop on his own and that the consequneces of looking could have destroyed his life. And those are two big signs that it's an addiction.
Oh, and my H wasn't one of those guys who would spend all day looking. But he's still an addict.
I don't know that couples counseling will help. I really don't. This is something he has to recognize as a problem and then want to fix enough to seek help himself. I would be tempted to mention to him that you've noticed he's looking an awful lot again and since he had agreed to cut it back, why? See what he says. But not being willing to get rid of his collection (or cut it back too far) is a sign, IMO, of him protecting his supply behavior.
Anyway, you are not overreacting. It is not something that you have to accept is a normal guy thing. No, all men do not look at porn daily or multiple times in a day. And IMO, the ones who do, aren't healthy.
Jen
He occasionally admits there is a problem and says he wants to correct it, but maybe he just doesn't want to change enough. He's said that he's always known it would take someone else to help him break the habit, but I simply don't know how to help him. I thought maybe trying to be more watchful would help, but he just says he feels like I'm supervising him.
So, he doesn't look at it in front of me because, as he puts it, it's not fun under those circumstances. But I know in my gut that when I'm in the shower in the morning or am having my nightly soak in the tub to try to relax, he's checking it.
I don't want to supervise him either - I'm his partner, not his babysitter. I want to be able to pop out to the store without worrying what he's up to... this is taking up far too much of my energy.
He says that because I'm usually at home every evening, he never gets an opportunity to have his "alone" time to get it out of his system, and that if he had that, he probably wouldn't feel the need to check as often to get a fix. And that does sound reasonable... so perhaps before I totally self-destruct, I should make an effort to give him that time alone and see what happens over the next few weeks - try to set up more girls' nights out. It's just going to take a lot of effort on my part to let go enough to give him that space - but I'm willing to do it.
I think I see another emotional conversation coming up tonight. Fun way to start the weekend! ;)
Edited 8/11/2006 1:00 pm ET by bcbeamer
Edited 8/11/2006 1:01 pm ET by bcbeamer
Edited 8/11/2006 1:03 pm ET by bcbeamer
>>He says that because I'm usually at home every evening, he never gets an opportunity to have his "alone" time to get it out of his system, and that if he had that, he probably wouldn't feel the need to check as often to get a fix.<<
He's referring to it as a fix. HUGE RED FLAG.
And get real, you are keeping him from getting a LARGE enough fix so he has to look more? What a classic load of addict bs. Seriously.
He's having sex. What fix does he "need"? I hate to say it but IMO, he's an addict through and through and you giving him "alone time" to get his porn fix is like dropping an alcoholic off at a bar on Fridays so that *maybe* he won't drink the rest of the week. When he CAN'T drink at all. Your bf CAN'T look at porn just a little. He's feeding you lines and your taking them in, hook, line and sinker.
I'm really not trying to be mean. I'm just so tired of seeing women hurt by this and the men continue with it because "they have the right". And you are trying so hard to be accomodating and loving and supportive. And he's an addict. It's not going to just stop or get better.
Jen
Hi. This is Jen's H. I'm a porn addict.
Your bf sounds alot like me. As I've been reading this thread, I snorted at several things--the reference to a "fix", the claim that Playboy is "not porn", etc. The comment that he just wants to "see what's new" really rang a bell for me. That was my thing--I had to go back every day to see what was new--I couldn't miss out on any good pics! I was also just into "young, beautiful women"--but my addiction was starting to escalate and I was branching out into harder material.
If he is not addicted, he will be able to erase all of the stuff he's stored, and he will be able to stop looking for new stuff. My bet is that he cannot bring himself to do those things. It is hard to admit that one is addicted, especially to something like this. But it will be better for him to come to that realization now, before his life becomes more and more consumed by it.
And it will be better for you to realize this now, and to decide for yourself that you deserve better. If you love him, you will want him to be sober--and not addicted for his own sake, as well as yours. You shouldn't enable his addiction, thinking that you can help him control it. My guess is that he cannot control it. The sooner he (and you) realize that, the better.
F
That was a gutsy post, Jen's H--just wanted to let you know that the two of you are in my prayers.
I keep hearing that the OP's boyfriend feels this is a normal guy thing, that all guys do it, and since she has no brothers and has never lived with a man before, she's unable to refute it. Okay. I grew up with THREE brothers, I've been married for many years, and I lived with a lover for over a year before later marrying someone else. All these males had normal, healthy sexual appetites, and NOT ONE of them every had to have a naked-woman "fix" every couple of days.
I think the idea of asking him to go cold turkey is a good one, but not for just six days. If he can't go at least two weeks, then I think it's pretty clear he can't control it on his own, and you'll have to decide what you're going to do.
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