cheating or normal?
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| Wed, 06-21-2006 - 3:11am |
i'm engaged for 3 months, will get married next year.
w/ the following situation, do u think what my financee did was wrong being that he's w/ me already? or what he is doing is normal?
1. still flirts with girls who he knows have a crush on him. e.g. via yahoo messenger. by flirt i mean - phrases like, from my financee to the girls "you are so cute when you are mad" or when the girl asked if he is on his way to pick her up (they went to a concern together while i'm out of town/ btw, he didn't tell me that he went w/ her, he just told me he is going with friends...very general about it) - anywayz, back to the question, when she asked if he was on his way to pick her up yet, he answered (once again via yahoo messenger) "yes, i'm comming :-D :-D" - as to provoke sexual attention? other phrases include "the way to talk is so cute/attractive" and "you look so attractive in that tradional dress."
2. also, ask them to go on lunch dates with him and didn't tell me about it. before i was working/in school, so i figure it's okay that he didn't ask me to go to lunch with him since he claims that he doesn't like to eat alone. But now that i have no job, no school, and free to eat anytime, i figure he could have asked me. right?
3. i will be out of the country the end of the month and can't go to a wedding with him, he decided to ask one of the "good looking" and the one that "he would be with if we weren't with me" (these are his quotes) to be his date.
4. there was an incident when i was walking out of the bathroom and saw him complimented a girl on her curvey figure while his hand making the outline of her curves.
5. when he was in ny on a business trip (we live in CA), he took the girl that he had a one-night stand with last year ( i met him last year too, after the one night stand of course) to an expensive/5-course dinner and didn't tell me about it. i found out from him, ironically, when he was drunk. alcohol is like a truth serum to him and somehow, it always make him talk nonstop! =).
6. he didn't tell his most recent ex-girlfriend (remember, my financee and i had only been with each other for ~ 1 year right after he broke up with this ex) that he is engaged/seeing me. when asked "why not?" he answered "i just don't know how to break it to her." i don't know, but he found other ways to tell his other friends. also, he said that she, the recent ex-gf, expressed regrets for letting him go. weird.
7. After we were already physically involved (after 1 month into dating), he still went to a set-up date. and of course, didn't tell me about it until that faithful day when he was drunk!!
please advise. are these considerred as unethical or are these normal practices fr an engaged men? would it be wrong if i am jealous regarding these instances or would it be overreacting?

Do not marry this man unless "he" can see that his mode of operation is inappropriate for this level of relationship.
Peace,
Di
***If you cannot define yourself, your circumstances will.***
I was in a relationship about two years ago with a man who is a compulsive liar and a chronic cheat. He was very smooth about it and always had an excuse. I caught him in several lies, which he either tried to explain away or blantantly stared me in the eyes and lied to my face. Most of these incidences involved women he'd met online.
The last straw was when he called me up to meet him at a bar. I got there and watched him hit on an off duty bartender and try to ask her out in front of me. We had just gone away together the weekend before! My satisfaction was "making nice" with the girl, telling her everything about him, and watching him leave... pouting and pissed off. I never saw him again.
Don't get me wrong, I think online dating is wonderful. I met my fiance that way. However, once your fiance started dating you, he should have cut all internet ties. That's what my fiance and I did. We deleted our IDs and started anew, together. There's no reason to look when you're happy, right?
It sounds like he's insecure (as my ex was/is) and feels the need to get attention and be thought of as a charmer whenever he can. I'm sure he has other great qualities, but that's what I see based on what you've said.
If I were you, here's what I'd think about:
1) Do I want to be with a guy who chronically flirts with others?
2) I deserve to be treated with respect by my future husband, and flirting with other women is not a sign of respect.
3) The fact that I have proof that he acts this way only solifies the fact that this is a problem.
4) The fact that these incidences came to light only when he was drunk and his inhibitions are down is a RED FLAG.
No one likes to be told what to do, so I'm not going to go there. However, after going through the garbage I did with my ex, I can honestly say I'd never put myself in that position again. I had low self esteem, lost a lot of weight (more than I should have), and spent more time thinking about him than myself. I was a disaster and wouldn't wish that on any woman.
dear all,
thank you for all your advice so far. my fiancee is not as bad as i had portrayed him. he is quiet an honest man, actually, sometimes too honest. but if you don't ask, he won't tell. oblivion is a bliss, right? also, he is very understanding and caring. whenever i am with him, i have no doubt that this man loves me a whole lot. not only that, but he is a very friendly and talkative type who is able to talk to anyone and anybody under any situation. that is the reason why i have not made a BIG deal out of all the things i had mentioned in my first post.
however, i agree most with becoverbeck. no matter how you look at it, flirting with other girls, especially in front of me, is a sign of disrespect. this could be due to his overtly outspoken personality and honesty, but he needs to know that by commenting on how sexy a girl is in front of me is disrespectful.
thank you all again.
Sorry cause I don't think you want to hear this but this has NOTHING to do with being outgoing and social. You can not justify the behaviors that you descibe in OP by now pointing out his good qualities.....that sounds like a total rationalization on your part. His behaviors are DISRESPECTFUL plain and simple and he does not appear to have any motivation whatsoever to change....these are blatant acts. How can you call him honest when he goes out with someone he has a past with to an expensive dinner and then does not tell you.....not my definition of honesty in a relationship.
You need a big wake up call. What you have here is a hound dog, and hound dogs don't change their behavior. They may become more discreet, but they don't change. They are willing to risk everything (even the Presidency of the United States) to fulfill this need.....it is part of their DNA, and their only remorse is getting caught, not that they did it, or that it hurts the people they love.
The good news is you are lucky enough to realize this before marriage and kids.....go forward with this wedding and you can take a look at the cheated on, and divorce and custody boards to see your future. I bet you will not go 6 months into this marriage before you discover the first affair. Here is a behavior that is common to these types, he will be having sex with someone else the night before your wedding.
I don't know a single man that had any of the types of hound dog behaviors that you deswcribe in OP that changed after they were married, and I don't know a single one where the marriage survived. This is not just someone that is poular with women and had an active dating life prior to marriage.
Please THINK LONG AND HARD about this situation and keep talking to others who have been with this type of man.....this is a critical life decision.
P.
>>>...but he needs to know that by commenting on how sexy a girl is in front of me is disrespectful. <<<
Oh he knows that.
I'm sure there are good things about him, but the point is you have concrete evidence that there are many bad things about him too. And you should think very carefully before making a life-altering commitment. After all, it's bad enough that he does these things to you when you're his girlfriend. Imagine how you'll feel when he does them and you're his wife!
Being outgoing and social means chatting up the cashier or bartender, engaging people at cocktail parties, having many group social outings.
Being outgoing and social does NOT mean taking another woman out to a secret, super fancy dinner or taking a woman who has had romantic feelings for him to a wedding--especially when he says he has some in return!, etc.
It may be that you decide to go forward with the wedding anyway. But please don't do so before being completely honest with yourself about his behavior and the effect it will have on your life.
I have no problem with friends of the opposite sex, talking to them or seeing them, but you do not and cannot hide your contact with them from your partner. To do so is wrong and indicates reason for concern that the "friendship" is more than friends. Again, your fiance does not speak to these women as friends, he "comes on" to them. That's not a friend. Continually making plans with them and not telling you is lying by omission and hiding the facts. That is not what happens in a healthy, strong, stable relationship. You cannot have a healthy, strong, stable relationship with a man who does as you describe. You can have years of upset, concern, suspicion, worry, and distraught as you find that he continues to seek out other women over the years, but you cannot have trust, stability, strength or real unity. I've known men like your fiance, they are called "players". Always trying to keep women interested and on the hook. He plays these games with women he knows are interested in him, that's not a friend, that's inappropriate and mean. He's keeping them interested in him and he's doing it on purpose. Is that okay with you?
You ask if this is cheating or normal. I ask you, do you think it's an appropriate way for you to act with other men? Would it be acceptable for you to come on to men, including men you know have a thing for you? Would it be okay for you to go off with them for lunch and concerts, or let them take you to expensive 5-course meals without mentioning it to your fiance? Would it be okay for you to talk to them in a suggestive manner and tell them how hot they look? The rules aren't any different for you than they are for him. I suspect you know it would not be okay for you to act this way, just as it is not okay for him to act this way.
Honestly, I don't think you really need an answer, you already know. He may be a great guy on some levels, but he's also a player and he'll always be a player. Players do not make good partners. Staying in a relationship with him will only cause you pain and will give you none of the joy, security, partnership and unity that should be in a relationship.
Would it make a difference to you to know that Orangecuse44, who also answered your post, is a guy?
A few articles you should read:The Truth About the Power of Love7 Signs You Should Run From Your Partner
Is it just friends or infidelity?
~ cl-2nd_life"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
While you are reading this, let me tell you that I have BTDT. I married him. I stay married to him for 20 years. It got worse, a lot worse, more than I will say on any of these boards. I am not trying to attack you. I am trying to get you to see something. Please, read this knowing that I have your best interests at heart from all that you have said. I AM reading into what you posted, but I think I will be accurate (Just in case someone else tells me that I'm going overboard, I want to make sure that I note that here.). So,let me go over this:
>an honest man<
"they went to a concern together while i'm out of town/ btw, he didn't tell me that he went w/ her, he just told me he is going with friends...very general about it)"
"ask them to go on lunch dates with him and didn't tell me about it"
"he took the girl that he had a one-night stand with last year ( i met him last year too, after the one night stand of course) to an expensive/5-course dinner and didn't tell me about it"
"he had a one-night stand"
"he didn't tell his most recent ex-girlfriend that he is engaged/seeing me"
"After we were already physically involved (after 1 month into dating), he still went to a set-up date. and of course, didn't tell me about it"
NONE of this depicts anything *honest* about the man!!!! If he told you when he was drunk, consider it as he would not have told you otherwise!
>very understanding and caring<
"still flirts with girls who he knows have a crush on him"
"But now that i have no job, no school, and free to eat anytime, i figure he could have asked me. right?"
"he decided to ask one of the "good looking" and the one that "he would be with if we weren't with me" (these are his quotes) to be his date."
"to an expensive/5-course dinner and didn't tell me about it."
"he still went to a set-up date"
NONE of these depict an understanding or caring man!
Somehow you have "normalized" these abhorant behaviors and made them "okay" somewhere in your mind. However, I *know* that you *know* that what I am saying is true. Otherwise, you would never have posted your first post. You know what I'm talking about. You have a gut feeling tellling you that all of this is wrong. You also probably have a piece of you telling you that you don't deserve more than this, that he loves you when he's with you and that's more than you thought you'd ever have. Honey, YOU are more than he deserves. He doesn't deserve ANY woman! YOU are worth more than this! I'm guessing that you grew up in an abusive home. Am I right? Have you been in other abusive relationships? This guy is abusing you emoionally, mentally, verbally, and maybe even sexually. (Sexual abuse entails more than just rape. Sexual abuse can be with-holding sex, sex as a way to get you to do things, getting you to do things sexually that you really don't want to do, and much, much more.)
You are a woman of worth. You are a woman with a good head on her shoulders. You are a woman with a big heart. You don't *need* this man. You need to know who you are and get straight within yourself before entering a long term relationship.