Difficult situation with wife
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| Wed, 05-31-2006 - 12:58pm |
Hi, I am going to try to make a long story short, but forgive me if it draws out a little bit.
After 18 years of marriage with my wife, we are at the point where it might end. For the most part, we have been happy except for one primary cause. She is an emotionally needy person. She requires constant attention (high maintenance). A lot of this stems from her childhood where she and her sister were pretty much abandoned by their father first, then once they reached their teens, their mother. My wife's search for love and attention caused her to be promiscuous, beleiving that she could get somebody to love her through that (which we all know is false).
When we met, we had a whirlwind type romance and fell for each other, then soon after married. Along came kids and everything else that goes with marriage. Over the years it has pained her that I have not shown the attention to her that I did when "courting". Now I have always treated her very well and try to always remember to show some kind of affection to her daily and to tell her often that I love her, etc., but she seems to think our marriage should always be like it was when we were dating. We used to stay up until 3am often those days talking (and other things), but she didn't work those days and could sleep until whenever, but I had a professional job and had to sneak away somewhere to take a nap because I was getting exhausted.
Over the last 6 or 7 years things have taken a turn for the worse. Whenever things get busy and attention fades just a little bit, her reaction becomes more severe. Accusations of affairs, yelling and screaming, throwing things. If she could gently nudge me that things are lacking, I would happily give her what she needs, but instead she says that I don't love her because if I did, meeting her emotional needs would be automatic. I cannot even get a word in edgewise during these times and have learned to just shut up, but resentment just builds inside me, and naturally makes it more difficult to give her the attention that she needs because I feel like I am being manipulated.
Here about 3 or 4 days ago, she said she didn't want to be married if I was going to be this way. Things I thought were fine, then whammo, she was livid at me and hit me with this. I didn't want to argue so I walked out the room to cool off, then she went nuts and started hitting herself in the face and stuff. She took off her wedding ring, which remains on the nightstand. No further talk of divorce has been mentioned, and we are civil to each other.
My question to anybody is - does it appear to anybody that a woman like this can be ever satisfied with attention short of quitting my business and trying to recreate our honeymoon? She is quite beauty, but at 35 she has been getting really down about wrinkles, and excessive weight, and things like that. If I try to tough this out, will it just be a continued marriage of pain? I hate hurting her, but I don't know how I can ever meet her needs, as it seems like her needs are far more than one person can meet. She says I am a great husband outside of this area.
Also, she will absolutely never consider counseling. She thinks it is all hogwash.
All comments will be appreciated. Thank you.

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>>I may try to tough it out until our last son graduates from high school in a few years. I am pro-marriage and he has felt that our relationship has been stable, and I don't want this to tarnish his views.<<
My H's parents got divorced when he was 26. It affected him no matter when it happened. Granted, he knew the marriage wasn't stable all along, and I am willing to bet any $$ that your son knows too.
Maybe I can help some. I've stayed out of this thread because I didn't feel I had anything to say as a spouse of a person with BPD, but I AM, in all likelyhood, the daughter of someone who had BPD. What you have described here matches my mom so closely that it's been almost painful to read. And I say "had" not because she got help for it and overcame it, but because she died and I believe that wherever she is now, she is free of it.
My sisters and I *ALWAYS* wondered how my dad was able to put up with all of my mom's crap. We thought that he was whipped for awhile. We did all reach the point where we really felt that he must love mom A LOT to keep living with what he lived with, day after day, year after year. It's only been in the last year or so where he's talking more about it. he didn't want to tarnish her memory for us and had kept as much of it hidden when we were growing up that he could. And so now, after her death, I've finally realized how much my mom lied to me, manipulated me, was whacked in the head.... All things I get to work through now that she's no longer here. And I'm now questioning EVERYTHING I knew growing up.
But yeah, my mom had the "fits", she had an insatiable need to be right-- to the point that 10 people could contradict her and she was STILL right-- ALL OF THE TIME, she had every illness under the sun (nursing school didn't help) and getting cancer later did not help dispell that, etc and so forth. So, if you need the perspective of what this has done growing up in the home, I can help with that.
I will say that I love my mom. I'm mad as heck at her right now, but I did love her. And her cancer changed her and we had a much better relationship before she died. But until she got cancer and changed, I didn't want to be near her. I do NOT want to be like her. I wanted nothing to do with her and would avoid her as much as I could because it just was NOT fun.
I do not believe in divorce as a general principle. I'm against it for religious reasons and for what it does to a family. But I would not hestitate to endorse you getting divorced, even before kids are grown. My dad left once and I was going to go with him (about age 12-14). Mom found out and I think that's why she didn't "make" him move out that time. Because I would have gone and not thought twice.
Jen
Seriously, you sound like my parents. Though I can say that you will know what the best thing to do is and when.
Jen
Well, you are right about the story behind my name, but it isn't what you think. It isn't Lied it is LLED....Dell backwards. It was the first stock I ever bought and it did quite well. So for some reason over the years I keep using the name.
Anyway, you are right that the therapy will likely not work, even if you could get her to go.
Also, know that this is just a public board and no one here, including myself, is able to tell what your wife might or might not have as far as personality disorders - could be BPD or any number of other personality disorders or something else or even nothing. Could be all you for all we really know. We are all just guessing based on what you've written and our own life experiences. So, take all this feedback with a grain of salt.
With that said, BPD or similar personality disorders have everything to do with significant self esteem issues. There is a need to project a certain image to everyone and also to maintain control. When they lose control or perceive that the real person is 'going to be discovered.' Look out....that's when things really get crazy.
My father can be quite narcissistic. Well, at least it seemed that way when I was growing up. There are a lot of similarities with that personality disorder. So, I find that I am attracted to woman that have similar personality issues/disorders. Most serious girlfriends I've had has had similar issues. One girlfriend I had, when we had problems and I broke up with her and said unless we go to couples counseling we were through. Well, she agreed to go. However, the stress on her related to that one visit ended up contributing to ending things. We only went to the first session together before we were broken up. At least she kept going for a while after that...until she told the counselor she didn't need to go any longer.
I've heard other stories about other people that actually end up quite humorous. One wife I know went to the first session and with the very first question, she got up, told the counselor to FO and walked out of the room. The fear that the true person (that they do not like) inside them will be discovered by others is huge for them. So, most will refuse to go and even if they do go, they will not be reseptive to it. They will just try and put their image out there to the counselor. So even if they keep going for years, it is difficult to make any progress at all...at least that's what I've gotten through reading on the subjects.
Reading your other post, know that I don't have the answer to the $10,000 question either. I have my guesses because I've tried to understand myself better, but mostly I know that it has to do with my own issues. So, that's why I asked you the question so that maybe you'll head down the path of trying to answer it for yourself and understand yourself a little better.
For me, it has everything to do with trying to gain approval. To be appreciated for what I did do rather than always being told what I'm doing wrong. So, you try and try to make them happy by 'correcting' what they are unhappy about or complaining about to you. But it really doesn't matter if you do, because that will not be recognized, they will just move on to the next thing they are unhappy about. The focus always needs to be on what is wrong, what needs to be controled or changed. After a while, as I'm sure you know, you just want to stop trying. Because a part of you starts to understand it doesn't matter. You just wants to be loved and appreciated for who you are, rather than feeling bad all the time about what you are not. So, even at this point, the co-dependent behavior that brought you into the situation keeps you there.
I've always been what you would call a loyal person. You too, I'm sure. I think I have a similar level of dedication and commitment to a relationship or marriage, like you've said about yourself. That means there is an extreemly high level of tolerence for what you will put up with in the interest of that loyalty or commitment. You probably know what I mean. That can be a good or very bad thing depending on the situation.
I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't make an decisions based on what people have written here. Spend some time focused on yourself to understand yourself better. Talk with someone that will help you weigh everything you need to weigh into any significant life decisions. Take it as serious as I'm sure it is to you. Read books on the subject and related subjects. You will understand yourself and your situation much better.
Good luck and I hope you get everything you want out of life.
Edited 6/17/2006 1:18 am ET by lled2
Wow. Thank you for your story. It really hit me to the core.
The subject of the kids has never really been discussed in this thread thus far. My oldest son is 20 and cannot stand her. The youngest is much more compliant, but I can tell he is very much frustrated by her. He probably thinks about me what you and your sisters thought about your Dad, how he must really love her to go through that. I can really indentify with your father and we probably have a similar story.
I think back when they were younger when we would go Christmas shopping and buy them nice stuff and put it under the tree. One day they would really piss her off and she would scream at them and tell them she was going to take their presents back to the store and that they were ungrateful, blah blah blah. This scene occurred at least 3 different Christmases.
While I can say with all certainty that my wife is not a liar on purpose, her exaggerations and selective memory turn my stomach when she shares a story with people, or when making a point. She blasts a friend for always being late when she never makes it anywhere on time. She gets angry and depressed when family or friends don't call her or help her when she is not feeling well, but I don't see her pick up the phone and call them when they feel the same. She accuses everybody of being selfish when all she seems to be concerned with is the things happening in her life. If I say I am worn out from a busy day, she had a busier one. If I have a headache, hers is worse. All this has caused me to keep my mouth shut a lot. When we have our cycle of fights (and they always seem the same), it is like I am listening to a tape recorder. The same points come across over and over again. She doesn't want a response from me. She just wants me to sit idly by and take her crap. If I walk out, something will get broken, even expensive things, so I learned I better listen or I will pay.
Very sad I know, but things will be changing. Thanks again for your input.
The biggest thing for me that I've been dealing with is what my mom told me about my dad growing up. She told me how much he had changed and how he used to be so bad. And she could site examples of things he had done to prove her point. (I'm sure there were times where his frustrations got the better of his judgement and he did things that weren't great.) So I learned growing up that my dad was borderline abusive and then he miraculously changed into the man he is now. Also, she tried to convince me that my dad had had 2-3 affairs and was unfaithful to her. Etc, etc, etc.
See, my dad and I have always been VERY close and we are a lot alike. I think it made my mom very jealous and she tried very hard to undermine my relationship with him. I think it really irked her that she wasn't my favorite parent. I knew back then that my dad wasn't cheating. (He never had the time and was never gone enough to cheat, plus, it's just NOT who he is.) And the rest of the stuff, I figured he had changed and that was all that was important to me. I didn't know the man Mom claimed he had been so I ignored it. It COULD have been very different. Now, and I mean in the last couple of months, I have found out that Dad was never that way. I've talked with my oldest sister (she's 7 years older than me so she should know) and my dad's sister and they all tell me that my dad has always been the way he is now. And 2 of my other sisters never had Mom go at them with stories about Dad like she went after me. (I've talked with the oldest one and the one younger than me.) I *honestly* think it became her reality but then again, if that was the case, why single me out and not share the stories with all the other daughters? I don't know. I can't answer that now and probably will never have the answers. I know she hated men and I've been able to figure out why. And I think my dad took the brunt of it all and since I seemed to have loved Dad the most, I was the one who had to be convinced he wasn't good. I don't know.
BTW, I know my dad REALLY did love my mom, in spite of all the crap she threw at him. Which I witnessed a lot and I'm learning there was more. I know he really, truly cared for her. I also know that she was hell to live with as a mom a lot of the time, and that she was more hell to live with as a wife. Being a spouse now, I have NO CLUE how he gave and gave and gave and never got that much back. I couldn't do it. But he did find a way, and counseling REALLY helped him with it. He has remarried since she died and without him saying so, I get the idea that this marriage is easier. So far. He hasn't been married for a year yet. Hopefully she won't go all nutso. ;)
Jen
P.S. Try and talk your boys into counseling. I wish I had known enough to go BEFORE I got married and worked through some things. It would have made life SO much better.
Edited 6/16/2006 10:31 pm ET by imasillynut
That is an incredibly insightful post.
"The subject of the kids has never really been discussed in this thread thus far. My oldest son is 20 and cannot stand her. The youngest is much more compliant, but I can tell he is very much frustrated by her. He probably thinks about me what you and your sisters thought about your Dad, how he must really love her to go through that. I can really indentify with your father and we probably have a similar story."
I was raised in a household like this and I can assure you, my take on my Dad was the complete opposite. I didn't think he was a great guy blinded by love. I thought he was a coward who was willing to sacrifice his kids to protect his pride and avoid facing facts. He was married to a woman with major issues, issues that affected all of us kids profoundly. He should have protected us from her, whether that meant forcing her to get help or divoring her and getting us out of that environment.
I wouldn't be so quick to believe that your kids think you're just showing them what true love is--they may think the exact opposite--that you don't love them enough to be the father they need. They are being raised in an abusive environment. They are well aware of the problems with their mom and the problems between you, no matter how well you think you have shielded them from it.
And if you are wondering about the impact to your kids--here's how it went in our family:
All 4 kids have struggled with depression at various points, 3 of us have been suicidal, and all of us have had terrible issues with relationships. The one kid who wasn't ever suicidal had tremendous anger issues. And my sister, the only one of us with children, is just like my mom in the way that she treats her daughter. (And by the way, we're all around 40 now.)
>>I wouldn't be so quick to believe that your kids think you're just showing them what true love is<<
Just to make it clear, it took YEARS and knowing my dad as well as we did for it to shift from WHY to "he has GOT to really love her" AND my mom was not abusive. She definitely had her issues and was messed in the head, but it was not an abusive situation. She didn't yell and scream at us kids (though she did my dad some), she didn't hit us, etc and so forth. I never, ever felt like we were in danger and that I should have been protected from my mom. I never felt like my dad did something he shouldn't have. She was not an easy woman to live with, but it was not an abusive situation. And I gave my advice and comments based upon a hard, difficult to live with person, NOT an abusive person.
Jen
Sillynut,
I was replying to Groovin's assumption that his kids interpret him as just loving their mom a lot, not your explanation of your situation. I'm glad that you have been able to find peace with your family.
Given groovin's description of his wife's behavior, and his description that his kids are showing signs of being impacted, I responded to him that his situation is abusive to his kids. That's not to say that yours necessarily was.
jg
I know, I just wanted to make it clear I wasn't trying to give overgeneralizations and such. That my advice was based on it not being an abusive situation. I didn't take anything personal by it.
Though I really didn't want anything to do with my mom for awhile because she was just too difficult to live with. Not because I thought she was abusive. So, his son's reaction doesn't have to be from abuse, it could just be a general feeling of being too fed up to deal with the hysteronics anymore.
Sometimes though, I wonder if there is a difference.....
Jen
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