Don't know if we're gonna make it....
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Don't know if we're gonna make it....
| Tue, 10-11-2005 - 8:20pm |
I need help. Today I had the realization that an actress on a show that my bf likes to watch all the time was a name I had seen on his computer (long time ago). I flipped out when I realized who it was. (All stemming back to porn suspicion, but this was when I found the porn and crap when he hid it) I flipped out at him too because I didn't like the fact that he seems to be into all these beautiful women and don't know what I trust him looking at anymore...
I can't stand him watching angelina jolie movies cuz he used to look up crap on her too. I don't even like watching one of our favorite shows we used to watch together all the time because there's sexy scenes in it all the time.
He says he doesn't know if he can handle my insecurity and I don't know if I can handle this either. This stuff did not bother me as much before the porn issue, if we watched a show with whoever in it, it didn't affect me like this, but I am a mess now and I don't know if I can handle myself anymore in dealing with this.
He lied to me before when I thought he was the one person that never would, did something I felt so disgusted with that he already KNEW I hated and even said because of "LOVE" he wouldn't need to but did anyway... Now I feel threatened even opening a magazine and seeing women who I don't know if he's looked up, looked up porn on, seen porn on, or just likes to check them out cuz they're hot....a stupid magazine I used to buy all the time which I put down only a few minutes later because all the reminders literally made me feel sick to my stomach. I don't know what to do.
I'm just a mess....please help...
I can't stand him watching angelina jolie movies cuz he used to look up crap on her too. I don't even like watching one of our favorite shows we used to watch together all the time because there's sexy scenes in it all the time.
He says he doesn't know if he can handle my insecurity and I don't know if I can handle this either. This stuff did not bother me as much before the porn issue, if we watched a show with whoever in it, it didn't affect me like this, but I am a mess now and I don't know if I can handle myself anymore in dealing with this.
He lied to me before when I thought he was the one person that never would, did something I felt so disgusted with that he already KNEW I hated and even said because of "LOVE" he wouldn't need to but did anyway... Now I feel threatened even opening a magazine and seeing women who I don't know if he's looked up, looked up porn on, seen porn on, or just likes to check them out cuz they're hot....a stupid magazine I used to buy all the time which I put down only a few minutes later because all the reminders literally made me feel sick to my stomach. I don't know what to do.
I'm just a mess....please help...

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Hi Aisha!
No I have heard what you are saying I guess I'm just not taking the time to answer some of the questions you've asked as far as his attentiveness, my insecurity/self-esteem etc.
You have a valid point in saying he may express himself in other ways but he doesn't very often. He has done nice things in the past and quite possibly he did over-sell himself when we met, but even throughout our relationship it has come up and he agreed that I was right and that he would try but he never has. He doesn't think about or do things for me to the extent I do them for him so I've backed off cuz I've felt taken advantage of. If he's too absorbed in his own life, agenda, problems or self-improvement to see that I need him to be here for me too. He has hurt me severely and lied to me when I truly placed deep and fragile trust in him and he ruined that.
He knows he has things to work on too and I am trying to do everything I am capable of to make sure I am doing things right to save this relationship but I am seriously struggling with how much he has hurt me. I know a lot of my feelings are validated because women in similar situations express similar feelings but mine run a lot deeper because of my experiences and morals and I thought we were on the same page and we clearly were not.
I appreciate all feedback because I don't want to be self-righteous if I am wrong but I have even asked him to be patient in dealing with me because I know how hurt I am and I need him to know too. However I think he needs to pull his weight in this relationship and do something to remedy the damage he's done...though I need to deal with my turbulent emotions too, I know...
As far as my self esteem, I was very self confident before and I felt very secure in myself but as many women express who are going through this it has diminished to whatever degree they are affected and mine has also. I am not fearful of how I look, I know I am attractive. I don't have the perfect body but I'm content in mine. It's his need to continually look elsewhere that I have a problem with, like he's not satisfied with me. He agrees that porn and looking at other women has no place in a strong & healthy relationship (so he says) but he said this before too so what am I to believe?
Hi Quirky Girl, thanks for your reply. I'll leave the porn specific discussions to 2nd life - because to be perfectly honest, I can't relate to your feelings at all. So, rather than give you inappropriate or abrasive advice on that matter, I'll just leave that bit alone :-)
However, I will keep going on the rest of what you're written. I could be wrong, but I'm wondering if your boyfriend is a "yes man". (do you use that expression in the US?) It seems that there are a number of issues that you are raising where he agrees that something must change, but then does nothing about it. Could it be that he just agrees with you simply to end the discussion...but has no intention of actually changing anything? (The coward's way out) It would explain him saying that he wouldn't use porn but continuing to do so, likewise he agrees that he needs to give more in the relationship but doesn't.
I particularly got the impression that he's a "yes man" when you wrote >>He agrees that porn and looking at other women has no place in a strong & healthy relationship<<. The thing is, while many men don't look at porn if their partner objects - the only men who don't look at other women (on TV or at the mall) are either dead or gay. Sure, some guys are more discreet than others, but they do all look. For him to agree with the statement makes me think that he's not telling you how he really feels.
If this is the case, when you were honest with him upfront it would have been much wiser for him to be honest in return and say "I do look at some porn, I'm a bit of a perv when we shop and I'm a bit slack on doing little romantic things. So it's up to you to decide if you want me".
Having said all that, I believe that actions speak louder than words. While he is assuring you that he needs to change, his actions imply that he's completely happy with who he is and that he's got no intention of changing. I believe that the ball is back in your court now. You've got a good idea of who he is and you now have to decide if he's acceptable how he is. If you're continuing to want a different man, you're going to continue to be disappointed.
Just as a side note, you have also written a couple of times that he need to rememdy the damage that he's done. I'm wondering what your expectations are here.
You know I would have to say I agree with you that I think he is a "yes man". I think he does agree to things to keep the peace. He's very evasive when it comes to confrontation and he hates really talking because he doesn't see it as positive communication and thinks everything will turn into an argument. However, we have had some really good talks too. He is an escape artist when it comes to a lot of things but somehow it drives me crazy enough that I eventually pull communication out of him. I know he's been habituated to act like this because in his last marriage he and his x never talked about any issues. I know this is why their marriage failed. He had no relationship with her whatsoever and neither were making attempts to open communication back up. I will not let that happen here. I had one marriage fail and I won't let it happen again.
Let me at least give the guy some credit. He has done things to change from how he was in the beginning of our relationship. I suppose in at least defending him I have to admit some good of his!!! He is very gentle, loving and affectionate and we had some issues that he deeply regretted where he hurt me and he made serious effort to change them. I believe he really does see how painful this has been to me and since you cannot relate to the porn issue, I will just leave it at that because at least he recognizes what damage it has done. I know in his last relationship too that his x seemed to never want to sleep with him. For whatever reasons I don't know but he's even said in conversation "maybe she wasn't attracted to me anymore". And I wonder if his self-esteem wasn't damaged to the point where he turned to that and got into it heavily. I know he's had a lot of self-esteem issues which I don't think he even realizes. She was mean and controlling, he was passive and didn't want confrontation. I can see it even now in how she kind of pushes him around when it comes to taking care of their son. She made more money than he did and, I don't like disclosing this because it's his achilles heel but he never finished high school, but the guy is literally brilliant in some things and didn't get the opportunities some people did. He also was abused when he was younger so I know how fragile his self-esteem is too. We understand each other very very well but he knows that he did something serious to hurt the foundation of our relationship.
I believe people grow and I believe relationships grow. I believe we have grown already in a lot of ways but my wounds have sat unhealed for so long it has to come out. I'm sure if you'd had the experiences in my life you may feel differently. Even women who once were ok with porn have been affected by their SO's use to whatever extent. But anyway, I'm not trying to impose my opinion it's just important to see that other people have different opinions just as cl-2nd is ok with it she respects my opinion and feelings that it seriously bothers me. Besides my experiences I think porn is a lie anyway but I won't go there.
Back to the subject of growing, I would think that any relationship where people cannot find a way to improve or change and grow positively is not a good relationship. Life is about improvement. The old saying "we learn from our mistakes" applies to everything. I know I learn and grow all the time. I have learned a tremendous amount from having my marriage fail of how NOT to do things and I believe my bf (I could actually call him my fiance) has learned this too. He's learned to speak up more to people and not back down and he is open every time I call him out on something like when he just wants to run and hide. But he's seen things change for the better too and so have I and you don't ever learn to be different unless someone tells you you can improve something. I know I have gotten better after he's called me out on my behavior and I even apologized for flipping out on him last night however I know I would not feel this way if he hadn't lied to me in the first place. It's not "looking" at women that I care about, I don't expect him to walk through life with his eyes closed, it's the next step after looking, the lusting, fantasizing....like guys just see women's bodies. I get it all the time and it pisses me off sometimes. The way guys stare women down they might as well be putting their hands all over you too...that's what I don't like and that's what I don't want him to do. I know respect like this exists because I have seen it, know many people who are like this and believe men are capable of living by just more than their animal instinct. Unfortunately the media doesn't help and I know it plays a huge part in exploiting the visual temptation that men have. That's why it's a BOOMING industry and practically rules the world, it sure does influence people's thinking everywhere and it conveys the messages of what is ok. The media desensitizes us to what it wants us to think is acceptable and it definitely works. I don't get my principles from society and the media, nor do I believe in having to accept things for the way they are. I think people are capable of a lot more than they may even be aware of they just don't know it until they learn. My bf has even said to me that he desires to learn and grow and calls himself a "work in progress" so I don't think all is completely lost. He has a good heart and I believe he loves me very deeply.
Anyway, I'm going off on some huge discertation here because of my problems with the media.
Regardless, after last night we've talked since then. Things are much calmer. Believe it or not I feel much better today I think just because I've been getting more things off my mind, getting them down on paper and actually seeing what's going on inside of me. He said that he wants to become my "Prince Charming" again because he really was that before to me, I know it's so cheesy but it was like a fairy tale. I know noone is perfect, he even had another major slip up where I should probably be even more concerned but I forgave and forgot that a long time ago but the trust that I needed from him on this issue was something that was extremely important for our relationship to stand on. It meant the integrity of our relationship.
Anyway, I know I'm writing a book here which I apologize for, I just have very few people to talk to so I might as well blab with my fingers...! I do believe our relationship is still strong, yes, extremely shaken, but strong and I believe neither of us wants to let go of what we have because we've never had this with anyone. I know he's not perfect and neither am I but our love for each other requires that we respond to other's needs. I think he needs work and I know I sure as hell need work!!! But I have seen how love and communication make couples completely unified. It's like an unspoken constant dialogue. Love is not placid or complacent or stagnant. It has to grow because that's the nature of it otherwise it will die and it takes two people to make it grow. Well I will probably try to at least lay low for a while and see how this weekend goes (yes I'm going). But I have enjoyed being on here and trying to post either with my own issues or for someone else's problems. I can almost hear the sounds of so many people just letting their voices be heard with their heartaches and it's nice to know there's a safe place to do that. These are the kind of things the internet was meant to be used for...there I go again...I better stop while I'm ahead.
Aisha about your last side note, my therapist and I agree that he needs to help me through this. He hasn't let me express my feelings but he is trying to now. I need to be able to feel I can be open and honest with him and that regardless if he is reminded, the hurt I feel has nothing to do with "reminding" him, it's just trying to get over the hurt. He needs to let me express my vulnerabilities and fears just as I would want him to do with me so that I know how to be sensitive to his needs. He knows anytime he has been insecure about my feelings and asks me something I respond with so much compassion because I never want him to feel otherwise and because he has indeed made me much more insecure he needs to pull his weight now in accepting the responsibility and dealing with the damage he's done. I don't think I'm being unfair by any means and if I had done something to seriously damage his trust in me, I too would feel a lot of guilt and would want to change it esp if I knew it was the best thing I ever had and that's how we both feel.
Anyway, cl-2nd I would still love your feedback because I think you come with an objective perspective which I appreciate. I am also posting on the Families Damaged by Porn site so I'm getting feedback there too which is helping.
Ok I'll shut up now. Goodnight all and thank you for listening/reading!
Quirky Girl, you and I think so differently that I will have to bow out of this one and wish you the best of luck. I don't believe in saving *dating* relationships that have problems - rather, I believe in moving on and finding someone who is perfect for you without anybody needing to change.
I'm not saying that either of us is right or wrong. We just see things very differently and act accordingly.
hope all works out well for you.
In the meantime, I posted a informational post (currently located in the "Off Topic" section but should be moved to the Information and Resources section tomorrow) with you in mind:
Five Components of Trust
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:Living Together
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
I do hope though, that it didn't seem that I was trying to shove my opinion down your throat, that wasn't my intent.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:Living Together
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
And yes, we use the term "Yes men" in the states.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:Living Together
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
oh yeah....I look. Absolutely! And on our main beaches, many girls go topless and lots of guys wear speedos. Perv heaven. Totally loving those dark sunglasses ;-)
Edited 10/13/2005 5:14 am ET by iv_aisha2004
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:Living Together
Edited 10/13/2005 5:47 am ET by cl-2nd_life
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
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