Don't know if we're gonna make it....

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-21-2005
Don't know if we're gonna make it....
50
Tue, 10-11-2005 - 8:20pm
I need help. Today I had the realization that an actress on a show that my bf likes to watch all the time was a name I had seen on his computer (long time ago). I flipped out when I realized who it was. (All stemming back to porn suspicion, but this was when I found the porn and crap when he hid it) I flipped out at him too because I didn't like the fact that he seems to be into all these beautiful women and don't know what I trust him looking at anymore...
I can't stand him watching angelina jolie movies cuz he used to look up crap on her too. I don't even like watching one of our favorite shows we used to watch together all the time because there's sexy scenes in it all the time.
He says he doesn't know if he can handle my insecurity and I don't know if I can handle this either. This stuff did not bother me as much before the porn issue, if we watched a show with whoever in it, it didn't affect me like this, but I am a mess now and I don't know if I can handle myself anymore in dealing with this.
He lied to me before when I thought he was the one person that never would, did something I felt so disgusted with that he already KNEW I hated and even said because of "LOVE" he wouldn't need to but did anyway... Now I feel threatened even opening a magazine and seeing women who I don't know if he's looked up, looked up porn on, seen porn on, or just likes to check them out cuz they're hot....a stupid magazine I used to buy all the time which I put down only a few minutes later because all the reminders literally made me feel sick to my stomach. I don't know what to do.
I'm just a mess....please help...
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 10-13-2005 - 5:45am

Ok Quirky, you're going to hate me, but I have more questions and comments than anything else at this point (and after all this time -- sorry!)


Questions:

  • The most important one first: Do you think your boyfriend has a porn addiction problem? You've talked about that he's sorry, that he made excuses about why he used it, etc., but do you think he has a problem?
  • "My bf hasn't really let me express how I feel, I've only been able to wonder and every now and then slip a hint of my insecurity which he would always get mad at me for..." Are you saying you are not able to discuss this issue with him or are you talking about before you found out that he really was using porn? And, are you saying that for the most part you aren't able to express your feelings (except the rage that spews out now -- which is perfectly understandable)?
  • "He's agreed not to be angry when I bring things up however I know that my anger and hurt is so deep that he may not even be able to handle how upset I am and not get mad."? He's agreed? He caused it! He lied to you, right to your face, for months knowing exactly how wounded you were, how important this issue is to you, how fragile you are on this and he's agreed not to be angry? He should be anything but angry. These are the consequences of the actions he chose to take. Granted, he has the right to use porn, to disagree with your beliefs on it. But he did not have the right to hide it from you, lie to you, deceive you. If he disagreed, chose to use it, etc. he needed to be honest and upfront and tell you. If it was important enough for him to use, he needed to walk away from your relationship.
  • I'm a bit confused (and this may change my thoughts as written above) you used porn with him? If so, why and how did you expect to do that while telling him you were against using porn, had been damaged by it, you were fragile, etc.?

    Comments:

    It sounds like your therapist isn't trained to deal with abuse/addiction issues (I word it that way as I'm not sure whether your past is abuse or a partner of an addict). I think it's important that you work with a counselor who is trained and licensed to work with your previous issues. A therapist who's trained in this way will be able to understand the dynamic of your current issue, how it's affecting you and help you deal with it appropriately. A therapist who's approach begins with "every guy uses porn and it's no big deal" isn't demonstrating that s/he truly understands your issues and therefore cannot deal with them. A therapist who is not trained and licensed in the area of expertise needed for your issues will cause you more damage, more confusion and do more harm to your relationship. It's important to get help from those who are equipped to deal with your issue, a "normal" therapist, licensed for individual therapy is not appropriately trained to deal with your issues.

    You're so going to hate this. Your boyfriend is not your knight in shining armor, he is not perfect for you and he never will be. He has proven himself to not be your protector and your safety, but has proven to be someone you cannot trust. You may regain your trust (I doubt it will ever be back completely) but it will never be the same, it can't be. Things have changed, there is new awareness and new discoveries. You're wanting to go back to a place and time that never really existed, your trust in him was misplaced, your relationship never was what you thought it was. You may go forward with him, but I don't think you'll ever have back what you had, it was never real to start with.

    "he said he would use it when I would go out of town for a few days because he was missing me, meanwhile we would be having sex ALL the time and even if I couldn't be satisfied I always made sure he was REGULARLY - he seemed to want to live in a fantasy world and supposedly was looking at women that looked like me" First of all, his "reason" (excuse) for using porn I think is completely off -- as in not normal. He needed porn to relieve himself while you were out of town for a few days? Somehow looking at women who looked like you helped him get off? I just don't believe that's not normal. Needing a photograph isn't normal and needing it to look similar to your wife/girlfriend is creepy and disturbing. Honestly. Red flags go off for me when I read this. Further more, unless I read your description of your sex life wrong, it sounds quite off to me too. Define "all the time" and for how long this "all the time" went on? Having sex all the time, even just to please him when you "couldn't be satisfied" (?) indicates that he has a need to have an incredible amount of sex all the time and that it's about him, not you since his needs must be satisfied, rather than this to be an act that you do for mutual pleasure. He shouldn't have wanted to have sex knowing you "couldn't be satisfied". I do understand having a huge amount of sex early in the sexual relationship is normal (been there myself), but regardless of whether I wanted it, or would be able to achieve orgasm, for his pleasure? To the extent of not being able to go without for a few days? This guy seems to have some inappropriate thinking and behaviors and habits where sex is concerned.

    Believe it or not, after all I've said, time will help. I know you feel this is torture, I know you're going through incredible pain. Time will help it get better. I know you're reading the forgiveness article, but I don't think you're ready for forgiveness yet, do you? Forgiveness can only come after enough time to feel safe and sure that the situation is not continuing, and is not in danger of recurring.

    Me - bed. Back tomorrow.







  • ~ cl-2nd_life

    "You can't control the length of your life,
    but you can control the width and depth."

    ~ Author unknown

    my signature exchange partner:

    Living Together








    "Ignoring the facts
    does not change the facts"
    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-25-2003
    Thu, 10-13-2005 - 1:26pm

    Quirky,

    I've been reading and waiting to post til I had more time, but your post is screaming to me and I just HAVE to say something.

    RUN!

    This is coming from someone who feels the same way about porn and all that as you, and from someone whose DH is a supreme "yes man". My Dh has issues talking, he doesn't like to do it. And he has baggage from his past, though not to the degree that your BF has. I see several similarities in my DH and your BF, based on your post. And honest to goodness, even loving my DH as much as I do, if I knew then what I know now about how hard it is and all the problems we've had, I would have moved on. Love is NOT enough. I couldn't love my DH more. But I also can't live this way. And I think, well, maybe I don't love him enough. And then I realize that it is a load of bull, that no matter how much I love someone, I can't make them into something they are not. Your BF has had DECADES of being the way he is. He isn't going to just *poof* change. And the issue with porn isn't an issue that is going to go away. EVER. Not because he'll always look at porn necessarily, but because you will wonder from time to time, even YEARS later, if he's fallen into old habits again.

    I know you love your BF. But I also know the work and heartache you are setting yourself up for. And it's just not anything you can say doesn't matter because you two love each other. Because there will be times where you won't love him as much, and then these issues are going to be insurmountable. You've heard the story of the couple married 50 years who said they did it because neither of them fell out of love at the same time? Well, what are you going to do when you fall out of love, however briefly, and these issues are still there? Or when it's not so new and exciting, or when he isn't as worried about winning you, etc etc?

    I know it's not what you want to hear, but DO NOT marry this guy until these issues are GONE and have stayed GONE for a significant amount of time.

    Jen

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 09-21-2005
    Thu, 10-13-2005 - 1:38pm

    Hi cl-2nd. Thanks for your lengthy response. I am happy to answer any questions because I need clarity.
    I just came back from therapy today and have learned a few new things but I'll expound more on that later. Actually in answering your questions it will tie in anyway.

    I don't know if he has a porn addiction but he has an addictive personality. He was addicted to coke at one point and went through rehab/ 12-step programs etc...he had a relapse early on in our relationship but he was tortured by this mistake and has made every effort to eliminate anything that may lead him back into that. I believe he does have a problem with addiction and may have switched addictions to porn. My therapist said his personality is a clear indicator of why he would turn to porn. He's an escapist and I on the other hand deal with situations head on, so whether fortunately or unfortunately for him he is in a relationship with someone who refuses to let him run and hide from confrontation. I honestly don't believe that we've come to a clear understanding of his reasons why he turned to it. He's been apologetic but I think both of us are learning why he did. It's giving me more compassion for someone in his situation but I need to let him know what I am learning about him. But sadly I suppose I've been focusing so much on the hurt I've been feeling rather than understanding his reasoning too.

    No he doesn't often let me express how I feel if I'm angry. He doesn't like to talk but I'm getting him used to it. I have relayed my outright standpoint of not wanting porn in my life or my SO's. I have had trouble in expressing my mistrust to him though now and trying to see my anger. I don't know if I should just let him see how angry I am but I know he will flee like a disciplined pup. He was abused before and so I know he doesn't deal well with conflict. I don't think he sees anything good about conflict. Fortunately, having this site and therapy is helping me to let a lot of things out that I'm not able to do in the relationship.

    You're right he should be anything but angry, but neither of us knew how to deal with the situation. I think both of us are seriously lacking in relationship skills as I am learning in therapy and why I feel I might even take back some of my advice on here because I may not even know what I'm talking about. He was not honest about it and hid it, I believe from addictive tendencies now. Meaning he was obviously ashamed and guilty for hiding it and his words did not match his actions. He has said he does not think it's healthy but said it was a "habit".

    No I have never used porn with him. I have never looked at porn unless I was snooping through his computer or accidentally stumbled onto a page or tape of someone I was with or around. I don't like it, I don't want to be involved with it. His x-wife watched it with him, thought it was ok but probably this acceptance probably allowed him to become involved with it to an unhealthy degree seeing he obviously developed a dependency on it even while we were together quite often.

    In the beginning, sex was frequent (several times a week) And both of us were usually equally satisfied. As his distance grew (probably from porn use) and my growing suspicion of course it became less satisfying for me. I still enjoyed it but my ability to "finish" was dying...He would make a lot of effort to help me but it began to not work. Add on top of this I have had a lot of gynecology issues (UTI's) which have made things uncomfortable, even painful which added to this. Usually I would only do "favors" if it was maybe that time of month or something, but almost always I was equally "in the mood". I never have tried to fake interest or climax but have wanted to please him, probably in my codependent fear of him turning to porn for lack of satisfaction. I would be wrong in saying he didn't try to make it pleasurable for me to. Unfortunately because of health & emotional issues it has made our sex life suffer to a large degree. As far as his interest in women that look like me, I guess it bugged me more than anything just that they WERE NOT ME. Not so much that he was just attracted to women who resemble me. But please do tell why you think it's creepy. I knew already what his sexual preference was and the features he liked about me I'm sure he already liked about these other women before I came along. However in occasional comments about my appearance/body/sexual style sent red flags up to me that I had to become more like them (perfect).

    Sadly I am coming to a realization that many of you are right. He no longer is that perfect man I had imagined, my Prince Charming, and I don't know if he is capable of becoming that person, though I know he very much wants to be that person. I know I'm not perfect either and I also have a new insight into his personality and can probably excuse some of his behavior if indeed he was beginning to be or was actually addicted to it. I am learning too that I wouldn't want him to give up on me just as I don't want to give up on him but I think we both need a lot of work and I'm wondering if our relationship may need to change drastically in order for us to figure ourselves out more. I know how much we lean on each other and understand each other and we are each other's support system in a lot of ways, but even my therapist recommend that he go to SA meetings because of his addictive personality and that it may be porn now, or was (I hope) and that he may relapse or choose something else to turn to. There is another problem I have that I don't even want to put on the board but maybe I can address that with you some other time.
    I think the fact is both of us suck at relationships, have skeletons in the closet, have our own demons to face and quite possibly we may need to separate to sort those things out or at least take a serious step back in order to develop a healthy relationship. I just don't want to lose him because despite his mistakes and my mistrust and the knowledge that it will never be something perfect and ideal, we are like two peas in a pod in many ways, we can relate to each other very well, we have an incredible amount in common and we do love each other very much. I suppose I am willing to give him the chance because so many people have given me numerous chances when I probably didn't deserve them. I can't see spending the rest of my life without him either because I still see the potential he has and his desire to be a good man. I know I never would have learned all I have or gotten to the point I am at without support from people who loved me and who I felt safe with. He still is in many ways the person I was always looking for, a partner who can share so much with me, we lean on each other and are learning together. I just think both of us need a lot of work and I hope that we can do that together somehow...
    I know I am monopolizing the board with these novel-length posts but it has helped a tremendous amount and been therapeutic so I appreciate you all listening to me...I know I'm emotionally handicapped and I think he is too, but it's nice to know you can at least hopefully have someone to work on that with when all other doors/hearts are shut in your face.

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 09-21-2005
    Thu, 10-13-2005 - 2:00pm
    Jen,
    I truly do appreciate your response and your concern for me and I see where you are coming from in telling me to run.
    However, I will say this. In my previous marriage, my x had not experienced very much in his life, had very little baggage, fit almost the perfect mold of what I wanted in a man but it failed. I think he's quite possibly one of the best men I ever met but we are like day and night, never knew how to understand one another and couldn't seem to communicate to save our lives. My head said "yes this is the best person for me" but eventually my heart wasn't there anymore. He didn't understand my life AT ALL, even belittled my need to turn to therapy or medication. He simply COULD NOT understand me, my behavior and I lacking the skills for a healthy relationship, it was complete discord. I don't understand how I haven't gone absolutely INSANE after the life I had.
    That said I see from a reasonable perspective how someone would tell me to get out but it's actually like I've met someone who is similar to me and I very very rarely find anyone I can relate to because they haven't been through what I've been through. So there is somewhat of a mutual respect for the baggage we both bring into this as crazy at that sounds. We have empathy where many people wouldn't know how...make sense?
    Anyway, I gotta get off of here! Thanks Jen so much for responding I know you have to be so busy. Please do let us know how things are going.
    iVillage Member
    Registered: 09-21-2005
    Thu, 10-13-2005 - 8:48pm

    One more thing to note - he too was married to the "ideal" person. The "typical" all American good girl, church going, cheerleader, A-student...we both ended up marrying people we thought would complement our new and improved lives. Marrying someone who seems to fit a mold of what you think you want, well I have enough proof that it doesn't always work...

    He told me about this weekend and I'm very excited. I know therapy and being on here is helping me so much though I need to stop spending SO much time on here (good thing I type fast!) I think it's even helping me be able to calmly talk to him without being so angry and upset. We are getting "away" (he knows I consider him an escape artist) but I think we need it. I didn't know this before but I know he went out of his way in a MAJOR way to plan this weekend for us and still has something planned later on which he will surprise me with, so he is forgiven for lack of thought...lol!!! He had to tell me about it because he needed me to help him plan so the surprise is out of the bag but it sounds WONDERFUL and will hopefully be a chance for us to reconnect after all the arguing lately. He also spent a lot on this and he really does not make much plus is paying child support so I know for him it's a lot to sacrifice just for a weekend trip.
    He really is the man of my dreams, possesses many characteristics I appreciate in a man and in spite of the trust issue, is the only man I've ever felt this close to before. Hopefully this will all work out, but I know he's a fighter and a survivor as am I and I would like to believe we can make it through this together. There is no one else either of us wants to spend the rest of our lives with and we are not naive when it comes to dating or having been with many different types of people. I only hope that with time we can become a force to be recogned with. He is kind and gentle and affectionate and he's OH so very gorgeous (but maybe that's just because I love him cuz I've seen other VERY attractive people whose personalities made them SO much less attractive...)
    Wish me luck, I'll let you all know how it goes!

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-26-2003
    Thu, 10-13-2005 - 11:00pm

    Agree, agree, agree with you Jen, 100% (can you believe it?! :)


    "RUN!" Yes!


    "Love is NOT enough." Absolutely.


    "..no matter how much I love someone, I can't make them into something they are not." Exactly.


    "And the issue with porn isn't an issue that is going to go away. EVER. Not because he'll always look at porn necessarily, but because you will wonder from time to time, even YEARS later, if he's fallen into old habits again." And he very possibly will. It will always be an issue between you, always be a concern, something you'll watch for and try to be aware of. Is this how you want to spend your life, keeping yourself constantly aware and alert to the very issue you didn't want to have in your life at all?







    ~ cl-2nd_life

    "You can't control the length of your life,
    but you can control the width and depth."

    ~ Author unknown

    my signature exchange partner:

    Living Together








    "Ignoring the facts
    does not change the facts"
    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-26-2003
    Thu, 10-13-2005 - 11:00pm

    Here's how I've come to see relationships, and I think it applies to yours as well.


    Every relationship we have we learn from. They aren't really "failed", they're learning experiences. With the end of each you come away with more knowledge and a sharper definition of what is ideal for us. Those first relationships as teenagers seem great at the beginning, but they're really rudimentary of what the "final product" that will come from the honing and sharpening we'll do with each experience over time, and each partner is a closer to the ideal. Your ex seemed perfect, but with time he proved not to be. When you left that relationship you came away with more definitions of what you wanted, what was important and necessary for a partner for you. When you met your boyfriend, you likely had some "must haves" or "cannot haves", definitions of your ideal that came from your experience with your husband. Your boyfriend meets the qualifications that became obviously necessary to you from your experience with your husband, but he has some other "flaws" that don't match up to what's right for you. In other words, he's close, closer than your ex husband, but he's still not "it", you're not there yet. Does that make sense?


    Read "Are You the One For Me?" by Barbara DeAngelis . It's very insightful, you'll learn a lot.







    ~ cl-2nd_life

    "You can't control the length of your life,
    but you can control the width and depth."

    ~ Author unknown

    my signature exchange partner:

    Living Together








    "Ignoring the facts
    does not change the facts"
    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-25-2003
    Thu, 10-13-2005 - 11:09pm

    Oh dear heavens, I need to make sure you all aren't rubbing off on me too bad....LOL!

    Jen

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 09-21-2005
    Thu, 10-13-2005 - 11:25pm

    Even if we are both willing to try and rebuild trust and make efforts towards that? How about separating and remaining friends...?
    I know I sound like a baby but...

    I DON'T WANNA LET HIM GO...!LOL!!! I know you all want the best for me but it is so hard when you're IN the situation!

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 10-13-2004
    Thu, 10-13-2005 - 11:33pm

    You spoke in a previous post about how the "perfect" partner is not always perfect. And I agree. What it will do however is change my terminology.

    A happy relationship is about finding someone with whom you are content. Someone who you love exactly as they are and who doesn't need to change in order for you to be happy.

    Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace