Going separate ways....
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| Wed, 10-12-2005 - 5:38pm |
What do you do when it seems that no matter what you do, your marriage is failing...all over.
I think I hold so much dislike for him for a few reasons, his parents are always constantly involved in our lives. When I have addressed this to him in the past he says they are his parents and can do what they want. I cant help but feel 2nd or 3rd place, like I don't count unless he needs me for something.
I have a love of animals and he doesnt, this is causing me so much stress. He spent 6 years with me and a cat (since died) and had allergies back then. Now his allergies (according to his doctor) are so bad that he cant be around any furred animals. Yet when we go to his brothers (1 dog and 1 cat) my sisters (3 cats) and my parents (1 cat) he has no symptoms. I have always had pets in my life and for me to spend the rest of my life without one, I just can't. It makes me sad. Dont get me wrong I know it would be hard on him but he is not willing to even try taking any medication for his allergies. I feel empty and I dont expect some people to understand.
It feels like I am constantly giving things up to be with him but he sacrifices nothing.
I'm depressed and I think about leaving because to be perfectly honest I'm tired of fighting.
There are so many other issues but these ones are the ones that I am thinking about most.
Has anyone got any suggestions?

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I'm confused as to what you're looking for. The title of your post is "Going separate ways", to me that says you're thinking seriously about ending it, but your replies sound like you're arguing against leaving. ????
I have to say, after 11 years of this you can't really think it's going to change, can you? And after 11 years, you can't want to spend the rest of your life like this, how awful! Unless...it's not consistently like this? Is it actually good, fair and equal most of the time? Does it just sound like it's not?
Im not arguing against leaving. My title of my post is a statement...like I am feeling we are going separate ways, maybe it needed a question mark after it. I am frustrated and at my wits end and was hoping to come across someone who was in the same situation or someone who can offer some great advice, which I have.
Is it constantly like this???...umm....there are good days and there are bad days but right now the bad are out numbering the good. If they werent, I wouldnt be posting here on this site. No, I dont want to spend my life like this but I am damn sure I am going to try to make it better...if I can. I am now starting to figure it out that it might be all for nothing.
Thankfully, I am getting advice from others here. Sorry if my post seems a little abrupt but I found your post to be more condesending then helpful input.
I was only trying to clarify what it was you were looking for before answering. Seemed to me that you posted as though you were 'done' (as your title suggested), but everytime a reply suggests that what your living with isn't acceptable and leaving may be the way to go you respond back with replies that seem to suggest that's not what you were thinking.
Sorry you see me as condescending, I saw you as conflicting and tried to clarify before answering. I'll just bow out and leave you to the others.
I suppose I don’t want to disappoint anyone, including myself. I think the harder I try to right things, maybe just maybe it will get better. Maybe just maybe it will change and I will get back the man I married. Perhaps I hold onto that notion. I guess I spend too much time looking back at how he was and not forward to who is now. I guess I am so worried about what people will think if I leave, that is one reason I stay…I know that. I know that if I sit down with him and talk about my feelings he will somehow control the conversation and put the blame on me and once again I will clam up.
His parents, brothers and their partners make the other person look like they are 100% to blame. Again this goes back to fearing what other people will think of me…gosh, I don’t know why that concerns me. I feel no physical threat from any of them, him included. Just verbal assaults.
I know that if this doesn’t get better I have to make a choice. Perhaps I am just exhausting all options before faced with that.
I have gone back and read my previous posts and the replies to them and I am taking it all to heart. Does it really look like I am making excuses not to leave? I am in agreement with what most people have shared. He is a manipulator and controller but there is never anger behind his words. Maybe that is why I am having such a hard time. He can be sweet and nice but that is generally when he wants something.
I stay because I like the familiarity, u know? I think I have to stay because maybe other peoples marriages aren’t much better, that the grass wont be greener. Afraid…hmmm…I’m not afraid to be alone, live alone or start a new life. I may be afraid to start a new life again fearful of if its always like this.
It feels like I am living a double life...inside I am just so tired, depressed and in a turmoil but out with friends and family and even with him most times I put on a brave face and dont let my true feelings always come to the surface.
Gosh, now this seems more confusing then before.
"I suppose I don’t want to disappoint anyone, including myself. I think the harder I try to right things, maybe just maybe it will get better. Maybe just maybe it will change and I will get back the man I married. Perhaps I hold onto that notion. I guess I spend too much time looking back at how he was and not forward to who is now. I guess I am so worried about what people will think if I leave, that is one reason I stay…I know that. "
Boy, can I relate to that, only I'll take it a step further for myself. It wasn't just that I didn't want to disappoint anyone, but I didn't want to be a "failure", I didn't want the embarrassment of going through a divorce and I didn't want to have to admit to anyone exactly what my life had been like. But also, I just plain didn't want things to be the way they were, I wanted them to be good, happy. I knew what a healthy relationship looked like, I just couldn't get my husband to do his part to get there and I so wanted to be healthy and happy with him. You see, I was in a bad marriage for years. My husband did what he wanted, regardless of what I wanted, he was verbally abusive (and I suspect yours might be too) an a functioning alcoholic who probably drank more than I knew. He changed immediately after the wedding too, I was stunned, and confused too. It was like the relationship we'd had never existed, it was night and day. Like you I worked hard to get him back, back to what it had been. There were spells where it would be awful, then he'd be nice and things would be "good" for a while (though it was hard to just be close and happy, lots of unresolved issues, confusion about what had been happening and plenty of reason for me not to feel emotionally safe around him made the good times not as good as the words indicate, at least not in my head). The good times gave me reason to hope, I saw them as an indication that things were getting better, or that he really was still in there and he could and would come back full time with a little more work and/or a little more time. Sound familiar so far? But, the good times always end and the bad times were back, just as bad as always. I was so focused on working towards getting things to right that I was always looking back at what it had been instead of looking at the reality of the situation. I can remember this so clearly; one day I was thinking about the time that I was working to get us back to, a time that had been really happy and good when suddenly it dawned on me that the time I was looking back at as the "good time" to get back to was ten years in the past. I was literally stunned at the realization. At that moment, it was quite clear how very impossible it was to think these times would be back. Six months of bad times, sure you can work through and change, but ten years? You're looking at the way a person is, who he really is, his personality, his character. Nothing is going to strip ten years of behavior off, certainly not someone who's not really giving any indication that he really wants to change. Oh, sure, there were times we could talk and he'd indicate he was sorry, wanted to be better, etc., but the proof is in the action and I had ten years of him repeating returns to his same old way. Like they say, if you don't learn from history you're doomed to repeat it. Well, I'd not taken a real look at history and sure enough, it had been repeating over and over. Until that time I'd never really realized theses bouts of good and bad came in cycles, but they did. Bad, then some good, back to bad, over and over, but the real proof that nothing would change was the stark fact that there had been no improvement, the bad was still as bad and the good never rose up to new levels, or stayed longer. It was the same lousy thing over and over. I'd finally taken my blinders off and stopped focusing on where I wanted to go, looked up and took a look at what the reality of today was. I realized that I had spent 17 - yes, 17 years stuck in that awful place my marriage was. I was sick realizing that I'd spent so many years of my life unhappy, frustrated, disappointed, confused, embarrassed, lonely, sad and hurting. What a waste.
The reality for you, Cdasuize, is the same as it was for me. Nothing's changed, not really, just the same cycle repeating over and over that you're not stepping back far enough to get a real look at. Ten years of the same behavior is the behavior he chooses, it's who he is, it's not going to change. It's not, and I think deep down, you know that.
"His parents, brothers and their partners make the other person look like they are 100% to blame. Again this goes back to fearing what other people will think of me…gosh, I don’t know why that concerns me. I feel no physical threat from any of them, him included. Just verbal assaults. "Will they call you up to harass you? Go out of their way to meet up with you and dress you down? Without knowing more, it seems to me that if they're that sort of people, most already know they're that way, you won't be looked at as to blame for their actions, you'll be looked at as their latest victim. For me, something that gave me real joy when I ended my marriage was the realization that I'd never have to visit his parents again. Boy, did I not miss that! That treat alone was almost worth the divorce - lol! Not really, but you know what I mean, I'm sure. His mother gave me hate glares or pretended she didn't see me when we were in close proximity (lived in a small town) and I was always uncomfortable when I ran into them, but it was nothing in the big picture. BTW, I'm not pretending to know what your experience with your inlaws will be, just letting you know my experience. I'd also tell you that what you've said about his family further illustrates that his behavior is just that -- his behavior, sounds like the whole family is unpleasant to say the least. They learned it together, live it and always will."He is a manipulator and controller but there is never anger behind his words. Maybe that is why I am having such a hard time. He can be sweet and nice but that is generally when he wants something. "
Manipulation and control are recognized forms of abuse. And as far as him being sweet and nice, all abusers have those qualities. You may see abusers as men who are literally steaming mad all the time, full of negative, ugly words, threats and put downs, but that's not reality. They're ugly, then they're nice. Just like me, that's a big part of what keeps women stuck in these relationships, they see the good and think that proves "potential" for improvement, end of the ugly stuff, all that. They cling to that as hope of what can be. When the bad times come back, they continue to think about those good episodes and work hard to get them back, when they come back, it regenerizes their efforts to hang on and keep trying. But, in looking at the big picture, they, like me, realize that there's no real improvement or change, just the same cycles over and over. Their husbands can be "so nice" that they feel guilty for leaving, I know I did. I blamed a lot of my husband's behavior on his childhood. I felt sorry for him, he'd had a volatile father and I'd had a "Leave It To Beaver" kind of childhood. I felt like walking away from him was wrong, especially considering his feelings and actions weren't "his fault, his doing". I wanted to help him get through all that and really believed that once he did he'd be happy and miraculously able to have a completely healthy relationship. The reality is you can't possibly help anyone else deal with an issue that you're not a part of -- and wrestling with someone else's childhood demons is not something you're a part of. I also realized that the only one working on dealing with his childhood issues was me -- not him. Not only did I think I could affect his issue, apparently I thought I could somehow get him to work through them completely without his doing anything at all. Something else that's very common in abusers is the perception the outside world has of them. It's very common to be told how lucky you are to have your guy, what a great guy he is, etc., by friends, acquaintances, co-workers, family. They're great at putting on a good front. The only person who sees the ugly stuff is you, and frankly, you probably don't recognize the guy these people are gushing about. The message you get is that it's not him, it's you, or you cause him to act this way. You feel like people would think you were nuts to walk out on him, and you know what? They probably will. To that I say, if they think he's so great to live with, let them live with him for a while and see what they think then. One thing you learn very well from being in these kinds of situations is not to judge anyone's relationship, not to second guess separations, divorces, etc. You know only too well that unless you live in that home you really have no idea what goes on. "I stay because I like the familiarity, u know? I think I have to stay because maybe other peoples marriages aren’t much better, that the grass wont be greener. Afraid…hmmm…I’m not afraid to be alone, live alone or start a new life. I may be afraid to start a new life again fearful of if its always like this. "Now this one, I can't really relate to. I didn't like what was happening in my life, the familiarity was unhappiness and I didn't want it to continue. I was afraid to be alone, somehow sure I couldn't make it on my own (though I'd lived on my own quite successfully before we married) and very sure I'd be quite alone for the rest of my life."It feels like I am living a double life...inside I am just so tired, depressed and in a turmoil but out with friends and family and even with him most times I put on a brave face and dont let my true feelings always come to the surface. "
Boy can I relate to that. Living a double life is hard, an it's depressing as hell too. Pretending to be happy somehow makes your reality even more awful, more stark. I'd like you to take a look at some articles:
What is Verbal Abuse? (please take the time to read the intro, it's slow but it's sooo right on)
Signs of Potential Abuse: Need to Know
Traits of an Abusive Personality
Know What Domestic Violence Is
Power and Control
Extensive DV Checklist
Brainwashing
More on Brainwashing
General Characteristics of Verbal Abuse
The Power of Verbal Abusers Reality
Common Characteristics (Victim/Abuser)
The Mind of an Abuser
Is Your Relationship Healthy?
Some of these will apply some won't. Not having many that apply doesn't mean he's "better" than most or "not really abusive", it just means he's abusive in some ways and not others.
I've gone on and on, and thrown a ton of stuff at you, I know. Hope you'll do some thinking about it all and read the articles I've linked you to. They're important and I think they'll be eye opening for you. Let me know what you think, okay?
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:Living Together
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
WOW that was a ton of information for me to process and I thank you for taking the time to post all of that.
There was a death in the family, so that is why I havent really had time to get on here and respond.
While I read most of the links, there are a few I have not gotten to yet but I do intend on reading.
If I can ask a question. When did you finally realize that you just couldnt be in the relationship you were in? How did you cope? When did you finally say...It's over? Did you plan for it?
Its a rollercoaster now and I'm on the "up" part of the ride...surely knowing the "down" part is right around the corner.
I've been right where you are, as you know by now; being on the upside of the rollercoaster, knowing the downside's on its way.
Know that you can ask me anything you want. I think I answered part of your question in my last (long) response. I realized it was over when I realized how long I'd been working to get back to good and that it wasn't going to happen. Around that same time I realized I'd lost any remaining respect for my husband (that can't stay forever when he continued to act in a manner that was worthy of nothing but disgust and contempt), and I already knew real love had been gone for some time. I didn't really plan for leaving, though that would have been smart, I just continued to float along (not a real problem since we mostly just shared residence, no communication or partnership). Basically, one day I realized I just couldn't live like that anymore and I told him I couldn't do it anymore. I said, "I'm sorry that you had a lousy childhood and I'm sorry you're not happy, but I'm not going to pay for that with the rest of my life." That was about six months after I'd realized unrealistic expecting change was. He begged me not to "do this", but realistically, the marriage had been over for a long time, there was no going back; certainly not after the words had been said. I have to say just having told him it was over was the most freeing experience. At the time I had no job, no idea how I was going to survive, but my God, it felt good, better than anything before or since. Times were tough for a while, no question, but at no time did I regret my decision and at no time - not even for a second - did I consider going back. Life is so good outside. Peace, happiness, serenity. Words that may not mean a lot to many, but for those of us who have been in the kinds of marriages you and I have been in, the words are incredibly sweet.
What did you think of the articles? Do they fit your situation?
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:Living Together
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
I think the one regarding brainwashing was the one that I felt was most comparative. See, its just such a odd situation. He never talks down or puts down anything I do, he just shows no interest. Or, will generally offer a way of making something better. My friends have long since gone, simply because they always thought he disliked like them. If I went out with them, he would never ask if I had fun. On the rare occasion we did all do something it was never talked about once we got home, like the evening didnt happen. Yet, when it was his friends it was always..what a great time and he could talk and talk about it! When he went out and came back home I would always ask him how his night was, if he had fun...etc. Even to this day, I will still ask. He still has all his friends, I have one.
I've been thinking about so much lately, how he maintains the number one position in my life...still. I believe I place 3rd in his, after his mom and dad. His visits to his parents and time he spends either on the phone with them or going over are increasing. It doesnt matter that I told him not more then 2 weeks ago that I think he is spent too much time with them..he agreed but last week alone he was over twice and calling his parents right when he got home from work, staying on the phone until I finished making supper. There was even one night when he went out with his friend for supper and called me on the way home and said he would be home in 10 mins.....well 40 mins later, 10:30 at night I called his cell...no answer. Low and behold called his parents house and there he was. Time had gotten away from him. He then said to me he would be home in 10 more minutes and I said dont tell me that because thats not going to happen. I know I was probably out of place saying this but I am getting so distraught over this situation. He just doesnt get it! I honestly think, that if his mom and I were tied to a railroad track (ok not going to happen but) and a train was coming down the track, he would rescue his mom first.
Frustrating.
"He never talks down or puts down anything I do, he just shows no interest."But in a previous post you said he calls you a b*tch, then expects to cuddle 20 minutes later. When is it he calls you a b*tch, if he's not talking down or putting you down? If calling you a b*tch isn't talking you down or putting you down, what is? You said, "it gets better but it always takes a downward turn and those are always worse then the previous times. " what is it that gets worse then?
"My friends have long since gone, simply because they always thought he disliked like them." Why would his feelings towards them make them go away? What difference would it make to them? They're your friends, there for you, not him. By your own admission, you rarely all did something together, so how is it your friends were affected by him and again, why would that make them end their relationship with you?
What I keep hearing in your posts over and over is that he simply doesn't care, period. Your wants, needs, desires, feelings, simply don't matter. He's not interested in animals and doesn't care that you desperately want a pet. He doesn't want kids and knows you've wanted a child for years. He know how you feel about his parents and doesn't care. When you're sick you're still expected to cook and clean. You cry, he doesn't comfort you; just shrugs when asked why he doesn't. You indicate he's not interested in how your time out with your friends went, I'd say that's because he doesn't really care. When you say he'd rescue his mother first, I have no doubt that you're right. Over the years nothing's really changed. He's not interested in a partnership, you are not an equal. He wants what he wants and he has no concern or care for your thoughts, opinions, preferences, etc. You're a piece of the furniture, there at his disposal. If you're happy being an object rather than a loved, respected, valued partner you're in the right place and if you've both been in those roles for years, you know nothing's going to change. What you see now is what you can expect forever. You indicate he changed upon marriage. It's a lousy surprise to find out the guy who wooed you was playing the role to "bag" the prize. And the prize is someone to make his life easier by tending to things.
Questions though. You've explained a lot, and what I see is you never standing up, never questioning, never insisting. I don't see any sign of you standing up for yourself or demanding what you want. What would happen if you simply brought a cat or dog (whichever you prefer) home and announced that s/he was staying? What would happen if you told his parents not to call after 10 p.m. any more? What would happen if you told him you were no longer doing all the housework and meals, since you both work the housework needs to be shared, he'll have his chores, you'll have yours. What would happen if you told him you needed him to bring you food to eat when you were sick? What would happen if instead of shrinking back, saying nothing, giving up and doing things other than the way you want to you made it clear what you wanted. I hear you suggesting, or saying what you think, but not taking the next step and actually saying "this is how I want it to be". Let him deal with the changes you make happen, let him be the one to adapt.
Along those same lines, you expect him to ask how your time with friends was, and note that you always ask when he's been out. You recognize that the flowers don't come anymore, and note that you even pick up his favorite candy bar for him. So why not be clear and tell him what you want, what you expect? And why do you continue to do things for him? I get the impression the only purposes doing these things has is to "prove" that he's got it good and you've got nothing. So stop! Don't keep doing things that simply seem to say to you "I get nothing, yet look at all that he gets."
Please don't think I'm beating you up, but it's clear that you sit passively back, accept what he decides, say nothing, and do nothing, except be what you think needs to be done. Were you always this passive? Did you ever fight against who he became when you married?
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
I dont think you are beating me up at all. You actually have hit the nail right on the head when you said I was passive. Therapist has called me a peacemaker, which I have always been and I know that. Hated confrontation as a child and would do everything in my power to avert it. This all stems from my father being physically abusive to my twin sister. She would argue and be headstrong and time after time would get a shove or repeatedly slapped and shaken from him. His temper and his out burst were terrible, occurring at suppertime and early evening. He would just go off on her. I went into a shell and became my own worst enemy.
I think maybe I am having a hard time writing consistantly. I do most of my correspondence at work and generally on a break, so I dont have time to go back and read the previous posts. Once you put it all in one, I can completely see...everything. The name calling, is not something that happens daily but happens once in a while. I am not making excuses but trying to let you know the extent of it.
After I completed one round of counseling I did stand up to him, in fact I left for a month. I came back on his assistance that he changed, that he would help me more around the house. Be there for me. He apologized and I came back. Marriage got better, life got better. As a year or so went by...very slowly things began to revert back to the way it was. This is what I meant by things got better but would eventually take a downward turn. I would stand up to him, ask him to do things and he would. I think I became so tired of having to ask because frankly...why should I. It was easier for me to just do it then argue or ask him to do it. I guess the biggest obstacle I have to face is having to ask. I dont think this is fair...after all no one asks me. I just simply do it. No one asks me to take the garbage out...I do it. No one asks me to clean the bathroom, I just do it.
I have asked him and his parents not to call after 10. It work for a while but it has happened again. Do I keep telling him, again and again?
I appreciate you responding and all your suggestion throughout this post.
I may not have answered everything but if I havent I will repost when I get home.
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