HaHa, joke's on me..... (really long)

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
HaHa, joke's on me..... (really long)
12
Mon, 05-15-2006 - 12:25pm

I'm sure you all saw this one coming. I sure didn't. Stupid me thought that since the conversation was had so many times, and since beliefs were professed to be the same that it would never happen to me.

But let me backtrack a smidge.

This past week DH got in a MAJOR funk. He just didn't care. About anything. At all. He could function on some level, but really the most basic. He could get up and go to work, but wasn't doing anything once he was there. He would come home and be a little better but was pretty much a blackhole of happy feelings. He claimed he wasn't be mean or happy, so he was a neutral. Cept when it isn't like he normally is.... it doesn't make him a neutral. The stress of everything got to him and he finally snapped. I told him on Thursday that if he was going to do nothing to make this mood better, if he wasn't actively going to TRY to get out of it (whether it be willpower or a doctor and counselor) then I didn't want to be around it. And that's when he disappeared. I got a weird email (that turns out to not have been related to this all) and when I called to clarify it, I found out he had left work for the day. So I figured he had made an appt. It took me several hours more to figure out that nope, he'd taken so money out of the bank and wasn't coming home that night. I did okay, I spose. If you count an almost total inability to sleep (2.5 hours from 3:30-6am), so much stress that my stomach churned all night. The kids were great and I think I kept it fairly calm for them. We functioned normally. Things didn't get really bad for me until after 11pm. And then I thought I'd check the computer....

See, I had found 2 small things on the computer in September. Just two and their timestamps were older (as much as I could tell) and from a time we had been having problems with browser hijackers. (Gee, now I know why.) I asked and he gave me his line. And yes, my gut told me it wasn't the truth (though I did have someone independently verify that it COULD have happened the way he said.) So I chose to believe it for the time being and kept a very close eye out on his computer usage. Haven't seen anything and I figured it was a fluke. But with the stress of this week and his disappearing, I figured I should dig again. And that's when I found a list of websites stored on the computer that he had memberships too. And an automatic renewal charge on the CC through a 3rd party internet billing company. (It had just hit and WAS a automatic renewal, I checked.) So, I spent time checking out these sites he had joined-- well, just the opening pages. DIdn't want to accuse if there was a chance they weren't what I knew they were. And now I need to wash my brain out with bleach and a scrub brush. Had a computer guy I know help me check the computer out thoroughly and we found absolutely no evidence of him having been on any of these sites (or any like it) since October-ish.

So, next day to flush him out I went and emptied the bank accounts. (He can't get more money, he can't hide.) And I waited and waited for him to call or come home. He finally called and asked to come over (he didn't discover the $$ thing, i told him about that later.) He came home with a script and names for counselors. So, at least I know he plans on working on that. And yes, he's actually taken his meds. I gave him the list of the sites and said, there, now you can stop lying to me and we can both be adults and admit you have a porn problem. (For those of you who don't know, ANY porn usage is a problem in my book.) And we've spent the last 3 days talking through a lot of it. I'm one of those who has to know a lot of info because what I imagine is always worse than what is. Being on here enough, I know this has nothing to do with me or whether or not I'm skinny enough or pretty enough. I get that, at least intellectually. Though knowing he'd hunt out "young and fresh" has really hit me hard. I've had 4 of his children, of COURSE I don't look young and fresh. But I also know that he LIKES how I look. It's not a matter of him not liking me, it's all about him and how he felt about himself. (My new mantra.)

So, he started looking at porn last year when he got fired from him job in Feb. (The same day or next actually, if I read the timestamps right.) And I found out the day after he got fired that I was pg with our youngest. And I know I had major hard times with being pg. Coincidentally, it's the same time I joined the board because things were so bad and awful and I couldn't figure out WHAT was up. Now I know. He slowed usage but continued even when I was on bedrest and the birth of our youngest. Since then there hasn't been any activity (I had that verified before he gave me a timeline actually.) But he managed to lie so effectively... I can understand WHY he did but it still hurts.

The kicker? I'm not angry. I'm hurt, incredibly hurt. I told him I deserved someone to be as faithful as I've been. And since he gave it up, on his own and NOT because I mandated it, it's helped. It helped preserve some trust. I just don't know if I'm still in shock, if I ever was, will I hit an incredibly angry phase? And everything I'm feeling... is it REALLY what I'm feeling or am I disconnected? Things I had thought about doing before now and now have decided I can do (just little changes I've thought about making), do I really want to do them because it's what I want or is a part of it me trying to keep him and thinking he wants it? (It's hard to psychoanalyze yourself.)

So, here I am. The joke is on me, isn't it? You know my thoughts and feelings on porn use. I think it's the most vile thing. But I know he isn't a bad person. Stupid, yes. Making stupid choices? Yep.

*Sigh*

Jen

Pages

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 05-16-2006 - 12:49am

Ah Jen, I'm so sorry. For the whole thing, his depression, not coming home, your discovery, all of it. Not easy to deal with, especially when you have to put on a "nothing's at all wrong or out of the ordinary" appearance for the kids. And no, I for one didn't see this coming. And don't even think about beating yourself up for not seeing this earlier. It sounds like what you found legitimately could have been from the past, without having more than that to alert you I don't think it would have been appropriate for you to approach him. I think sitting back, watching and waiting was the right thing. It sounds like he's been pretty much clean since October, is that right? Or is there more that he's still hiding from you? I'm not trying to stir up doubt and trouble, but it would be very typical of an addict to have a hidden stash that they're not willing to admit to or give up (give up as in let its existence be known).


It sounds like he's taking steps to deal with this himself, and that's a good thing. Are the counselors he got referrals to "regular" individual counselors or addiction counselors? Do they specialize in sex addictions? If not, I would really urge you/him to seek out someone (or a program) who specializes in the field. If I remember right, you don't have a bevy of service providers to choose from in your area, and I don't have any idea how far away he'd have to go for a specialized program or treatment provider, but however far that is, I think it's the only way to go. A therapist who's not trained in addictions isn't going to be able to help. I'll go a step farther and say he really needs someone who specializes specifically in sex addiction; training in addictions is very specialized because it needs to be, he needs to be with someone who understands sex addiction, it's pathology, it's treatment, all of it. I'd also suggest you see that same provider or a provider in the program (assuming they offer s/o support); you really need it. You need someone to bounce your feelings off of, someone who understands the addictions and who can help you sort out your feelings. It's vitally important. Yeah, I know this isn't where you want to be. I assume what that your husband believes he needs help with a sex addiction, yes?


I don't think what you're feeling is unusual at all. You've been through this before, it can't be the shock and upset it was the first time, it's not the new realization it was before, besides, you'd be a wreck if you had to go through that kind of emotional upheaval any time a discovery was made. I think hurt is an appropriate emotion to be feeling. I wouldn't try to get too deep into psychoanalyzing yourself or your emotions right now, you have to be pretty raw, pretty tired, and pretty numb too. Give yourself time, lots of time, to let the dust settle and really know how you feel or what you think. It might sound really silly, and may even sound a little impossible with little ones running around, but be really good to yourself right now, you need it and it will make a difference. Whether that's a bubble bath, a bowl of ice cream every night, or whatever, do something that spells "treat" for you often. It will make a difference.


One more suggestion - but it doesn't take the place of the trained help you really need to see - check in with the Families Damaged by Pornography


Huge hugs, Jen. My husband disclosed a gambling addiction in March 2005. I completely understand you feeling hurt, and basically not knowing what you're feeling or what you should be feeling, let alone what you should be doing. Couldn't it all just go away? Where we differ is in the trying to keep him. I was pretty ambivalent (to put it mildly) about whether staying in this marriage was right or not for a while.


Knock on my door anytime Jen, on or off the board.







~ cl-2nd_life

"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-13-2006
Tue, 05-16-2006 - 12:29pm

imasillynut,

Hey there, I've been thinking about what to say ever since I read the post yesterday, but I haven't come up with anything brillant yet, only the usual. I'm sorry that you are going through all of this. Don't feel bad for not seeing it coming, we all have things that happen that way. It doesn't make it your fault. Part of your husbands funk was probably everyday stress topped by the stress of hiding this from you. We all get anxious when we know we are doing something wrong and our partner will get mad. You are a strong woman to face knowing he wasn't coming home but still keeping a functional household with the kids.

I personally am ok with some porn, like the soft stuff that is usually with couples in relationships. I'm with you though when it comes to the hard, dirty stuff that totally degrades women or brings kids and animals into it. IF DH was into that I know I wouldn't have married him. I don't really get it, why men (and women) want it. I don't think it's about the actual person in the porn nor the fact that they want them more then their partner because of their looks. I bet if you would ask too, most "men" (I mean REAL men) would never marry those girls or have those girls be the mother's of their children. Not to imply those girls are bad people. I don't really have a spot for them though, I guess I just don't understand why they need to do those degraging things for money. Espeically those hard core girls. To me, that's not being a "woman". Call me old-fashioned. hahaha!

It sounds to me like you two are on track to get the problem resolved. As hard as it will be and as hurt as you are if he's putting forth the effort you are going to have to recognize it and praise him. I don't think that people can forgive AND forget. You may be able to forgive, but you will never forget. If you decide to forgive, you have to follow through, don't hold resentment for him and let it show in other areas of your marriage. It's really easy to get caught in that trap. I'm sure you already know this, I just wanted to get it out there.

We are here for you, don't forget about that.

Best of luck,
defleppardgal

Defleppardgal

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Tue, 05-16-2006 - 1:32pm

I should clarify that I think parading around with the intent to "arouse" people or have them lust after you is degrading. Nothing wrong with looking good and knowing it. Nothing wrong with dressing well and attractively. I wouldn't even wear a swimsuit unless the situation called for it. But posting naked pictures of yourself, or allowing naked pictures of yourself to be posted, is very degrading in my opinion. Videos of people having sex is degrading. I don't know what you consider "soft" porn. I actually don't have much of a porn education, though that is changing. I'd always heard that soft porn was still pictures or simulation of the sex act. If I'm wrong, please educate me because I find knowledge to be more helpful than lack of it.

And from what I understand, hhis fantasies prefer young, college age girls who haven't had the ravages of age or pg hit them. With a perky, large chest.

And yes, I actually really get that it doesn't mean he finds me unattractive. Though it is very hard not to equate the two.

Jen

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-13-2006
Tue, 05-16-2006 - 2:59pm

imasillynut,

I guess I worded my paragraph wrong. What I meant with the soft stuff, like a story line of a couple going to a romantic island retreat for a vacation type thing. There are actually alot of real couples that do that, so it's not like they are sleeping with just anyone. I'm ok with every once in awhile sitting with DH and watching something like I wrote above. Together. I'm not ok with someone who does (or is on the other end in providing) what you described on a daily basis without their partner (even with too that's just odd). I guess you would probably disagree though saying that even soft stuff is degrading. In that case I guess I do sound hypicritical. Hmm, I should look into that. hahaha! DH and I don't do that alot. We've only done it once in the 2 years that we've been together. It was early on in our relationship when we did it. You know when I was still young and thinking I needed to be interesting all the time. hahaha! Now I can shovel horse manuer and look good to DH.

Before you were married did your DH watch, look at porn?? Would you consider making a tape of the two of you (for your and his eyes only) porn?? Just curious on both accounts. If he was into porn before your marriage then there is the root of your problem. Either he lied and told you he would stop or he felt pressure to stop even when he didn't want too. Old habits die hard and if he didn't want too, well then of course he's going to try to sneak it any way he can. Course, that would come into play also if he didn't watch it before, but he got into it back in 05 when it all started, which would still work. As for the video of you two, I only mentioned it because it would be something that you could do different together and it would give him accetable porn in that he would be looking at you and not some other woman. Course that's if you think that is accetable for a couple to do. Just a suggestion and you have every right to disagree, I'm not trying to push anything. I don't want to or mean to be disrespectful.

A good way to help keep him off the computer porn is to put pictures of you and your kids all around the computer screen. The guilt he will feel looking at those pictures beside some naked half-wit will probably help him to quit.

Best of luck,
defleppardgal

Defleppardgal

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Tue, 05-16-2006 - 4:58pm

<>

I just love that. Most especially the term "naked half-wit". ROFL.

No, he did not use any porn prior to 05. I know as a teenager he had a masturbation problem but he did not use porn as a part of that. (Back when internet was not what it is today.)

I would not be comfortable making a video of us. I think that just gets too close to the edge and I don't want to be near it. I'm fairly adventurous (though not too knowledgeable and finding out things without getting near pornography is difficult) so I don't mind spicing things up. I'd really like that. But it isn't about things not being spicy enough or things like that. It's about how he feels about himself and that he was more willing to use some type of drug to fix the problem instead of doing any real work.

He does have his first counseling appt this Thursday. He made it himself! And he said today that he is actually looking forward to it. I hope she's good.

Jen

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-13-2006
Tue, 05-16-2006 - 10:53pm

imasillynut,

I hope (for you) that she is too. :) I am very happy for you that atleast he IS trying to fix this. That is, as I'm sure, a great big weight off your shoulders. It says alot about how he feels about you and wanting to make this right, even if he did mess up in the past.

Part of the problem with society (this is just my opinion) is that we are too quick to try to fix things with "drugs" or something else. Never dealing with the situation. I have issues with that because my mother actually "doctor shops". She's on so many different types of drugs, some of which shouldn't be mixed. Anyways, once a doctor stops giving her the prescription, she finds a new one. So I'm harsh on the "drug" world.

I hope that everything goes well with his sessions. It sounds like it will. Keep us posted. I was serious about the pictures though. Just try it and see what happens. :)

Best of luck,
defleppardgal

Defleppardgal

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 05-17-2006 - 1:46am

Jen, it sounds like he showed himself to be prone to sex addiction early on, excessive masturbation is a form of sex addiction too, but I'm sure you know that. One thing that's extremely important is that even soft porn, viewed together is a not okay with a sex addict. It's what having a glass of wine together is to an alcoholic. If he's addicted to porn he cannot partake. One way to define an addict is someone who cannot control his usage of whatever he's addicted to. If you think of that definition, the very suggestion that he try viewing the lighter stuff with you is putting him in the face of his addiction and asking him to control it, which you already know he cannot do.


There are some articles in the Information and Resources section on sex addicts (borrowed with permission from the Families Damaged by Pornography board):
Are You a Sex Addict?
Six Kinds of Sex Addicts
Is My Partner a Sex Addict?
What Is a Sexual Addiction?
Options of the Partner of a Sex Addict


Is his counselor a sex addiction specialist? You are inferring that he has a pornography addiction, correct?

What you might not realize is that addiction behavior is the same regardless of what the addiction is to. Sex, drugs, alcohol, gambling, whatever, it's the same behaviors, the same patterns and leaves the spouses and families feeling the same feelings too.








~ cl-2nd_life

"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."

~ Author unknown



Edited 5/17/2006 2:02 am ET by cl-2nd_life








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 05-17-2006 - 10:14am

Cl,

I emailed you yesterday. I spose I should have mentioned that, lol.

I've been around here long enough to know that addictive behaviour is the same no matter what "drug" they pick. ANd while I think he, at minimum, has addictive tendencies, I don't have enough info to label him an addict. You have to understand that our religion says NO masturbation. We get taught that it is wrong and carnal and improper and that you are dirty and vile if you do it. (Okay, I have issues with the way the message is taught and I didn't hear this, but this is the way HE learned about it growing up.) So, having a masturbation problem growing up means he did it. I'm not aware of how often or even if that changes anything on meaning. I know how he fell into it as a very young teen (12-13) and that it was most definitely a habit. I'm not trying to excuse anything either.

I would not look at porn with him. I would not and do not want him looking at porn at all. Why do I want him getting all aroused by other women and then turning to me because I'm what happens to be there? Doesn't work for me. That and I do understand that the instant that door is open AT ALL, it can be flung wide open again. It'd be too easy for him to slip back into porn usage. And I disagree with it on a very basic level. These are somebody's daughters. The statistics on them having been abused and thus going into the sex industry are startling. And the thought of someone sitting and watching MY child like that, I just will NOT return the favor.

No, this counselor is not an addiction counselor. He asked her if she was and she said while she's had some training, she is not specialized in addiction. The first visit is an evaluation visit and I'm just thrilled that he is going. I've explained that even if he isn't an "addict" that he DOES have very similar thought processes (the whole entitlement thing) and that he has to retrain those and needs someone who can really help with that.

I will say that he is taking full responsibility for the porn usage. He told me he knew what he was doing when he typed in his first search online. And he gave me the reasons why he thought it was okay. Which basically amounted to, he wanted to. He was unhappy with himself, his ability to provide, our marriage... and he decided that a way to be happy again was to start with mb.

As defleppardgal said, a HUGE part of this is that he gave it up on his own. That he is trying. If it had happened any other way, I would call it quits. Mainly because I can't trust him to stop if I had mandated it because I found it.

With any luck he will get a job with bene's soon and then I can get counseling too. I really want it now. I want to make sure I'm dealing and not misplacing anger or whatever. Though it hasn't even been a week yet.

Jen

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 05-18-2006 - 1:58am

Jen, I'm pretty conflicted on whether he's dealing with an addiction or not. I'm not saying it's not, he's having trouble staying away from it, which sounds like addiction behavior. You also seem to have identified some things that are triggers for him (trigger his use of porn), he started using around stressful times, lost his job, new pregnancy. Identifying triggers, learning to deal with them differently and being aware of them when they come up is very important in any addiction. But, from what you've said, it might be more of a conflict between a morality conflict within himself. He seems to be struggling with finding balance between what his faith demands and what is willing to do. The bottom line is that he doesn't like what he's doing and wants it to change, and that's exactly the place where change becomes possible. I think the counselor he's seeing might be really good. She's had training in the sex addiction field so she should be aware and should be able to address the situation. I will warn you though, in an addiction it's very important that the therapist be fully trained and practicing in the field of addiction the client has. "Regular" individual counselors will not help the situation and will probably do a lot of damage. Addiction counselors can key into behaviors, statements and addiction thinking that indicates the client is not where s/he says he is, knows where to go from there, what they're ready to tackle and when they're ready to tackle it. Someone who's not trained can't know those things and therefore key issues won't be addressed.


I agree with you that the fact he came forward with this and sought help on his own is huge. For a time just after my husband disclosed his gambling addiction I struggled with staying in the relationship (been in an addiction relationship before and had no desire to go back) but I realized that the difference between my ex and my husband is that my husband recognized his problem and had actively sought treatment on his own. I struggled for a while, then came up with what were deal breakers for me (lying, gambling again, full disclosure without argument and without having to ask for it are what comes to mind now), presented those to him, drew my line in the sand and let him know point blank, if any of these are breached, we are done, period. After setting those boundaries for myself, I was able to relax quite a bit, I knew where I stood, he knew where I stood and it was clear what the consequences would be. It resolved most of the turmoil for me regarding what I was going to do, what I should do, etc., etc.


Therapy for you is huge, and couples counseling will be too, though now may not be the best time for it. If there's any way you can go, I really urge you to make it happen, but again, it should be with someone who has a background/specializes in sex addiction issues. That's imperative -- and you'll learn a ton of important information from him/her about it too.

**I don't want to hijack Jen's post, so if anyone wants to know more about my situation, feel free to ask about it in a new post, I'll be happy to share any and all of it.**







~ cl-2nd_life

"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Thu, 05-18-2006 - 10:09am

Yes, he does admit that when he decided to stop he would slip back. He couldn't just stop cold turkey. That is a big indicator for me too. FOr me I guess I wonder if it's a "habit" vs addiction. It can take time to retrain a habit. And the time he chose to stop coincided with my bedrest, the rough end of my pg, and him coming out to me about his disbelief in our religion. So I do realize there were stressors there. Not that it excuses it. He made a very active decision to do what he did. It wasn't just stumbling across it and falling into it. he went looking for it, he used it to cope instead of coping with the issues. He read the Are you an Addict? thing. And he answered yes to 7-8 of them. And he says HE wants to bring this up with her. He even made the comment "this is going to take a few years, isn't it?"

I've drawn my line. Any time he stops trying to get better, I'm gone. I don't think I can handle a relapse either, though that line scares me more. Can I demand perfection? Or is that just setting us up for a failure?

Anyway, I'm going to not spend the day thinking of nothing but this. I've got to return to my life and stop obsessing. (Though it's not obsessing yet, IMO, since it's still so new.)

Jen

Pages