Here's one of our "stupid" fights
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| Sat, 06-24-2006 - 7:13pm |
For those that have been reading my threads, I have mentioned that me and my hubby often fight about "stupid" stuff. I did give one example in my first thread about me being wishy-washy after dinner. There were many posters wanting to know what kind of "stupid" fights we would have. Since this fight happened last night, it is still fresh in my mind.
Hubby: I need to ask you a question and I don't want you to be offended. I was wondering if you wash your hands after you use the bathroom. If you do wash your hands, then its all good, but if you don't, do you think you could start...I'm just funny that way. Because there have been times to where after you go to the bathroom, you are out of there quick and then I think "did she wash her hands". (**Now, the whole time while he is talking, I could really tell he was nervous) By the way, my hubby is very hygiene clean to a tee -- always washes his hands, takes frequent showers, etc)
Me: Yes, I wash my hands after I use the bathroom. (**I must admit, after I answered his question, I'm in total shock and after my shock wears thin, now I'm starting to feel offended thinking that he is "implying" that I'm not clean)
After I answer him, he goes off and takes a shower. And then during this time is when I really start to stew and its really eating at me. After he finishes taking a shower, he goes into the other room and works on his computer. I follow him and the conversation goes like this:
Me: Hey is 8:00a.m. good for getting up before our tee time
Hubby: Yes, that's fine.
Me: It kind of bothered me that you had to ask if I wash my hands. I felt you were implying that I wasn't clean.
Hubby: No, I wasn't "implying" that you weren't clean...it was just something I needed to bring up. Like I said, I'm funny that way.
Me: I wish you could have brought it up kind of jokingly..."hey, you do wash your hands, right"...ha,ha,ha
Hubby: But its not a joking matter to me
Me: Well, now you are giving me that impression that I'm not clean enough for you
Hubby: See, this is why I didn't want to bring it up.
Me: What IF I get up in the wee hours of the morning like 2:00a.m. or 3:00a.m. to go to the bathroom and I forget to wash my hands. Sorry, my brain isn't fully functional at that time to where I'm going to remember.
** By this time the yelling/screaming start
Hubby: Then don't wash your hands
Me: "Thinking he is "implying" that I'm never going to wash my hands. So, I say to him there will be times I forget like you do when you don't remember to put your wedding ring back on (**My hubby can't wear his ring at work due to saftety reason, therefore, he puts it back on when he gets in the car....providng that he doesn't forget. However, many times he has. He knows this is "important" to me because I believe wearing our wedding rings symbolizes the bond we have in this marraige. So, the times that I have asked him "how come you forgot to put your wedding ring back on....he replies "I forget". And it sounds so insensitive and it hurts my feelings.) Anways, back to the original problem. I continue on by saying "there will be times I will forget just like you do when you forget to put your wedding ring back on.
Hubby: Therefore, you are going to be vindictive.
Me: I never said I was going to be vindictive. I'm just letting you know I'm only human that if I forget then I'm letting you know. Kind of like you do with your wedding ring.
Hubby: Forget it, all your doing is making up excuses.
Me: Now, you know how I feel when you don't remember to put your wedding ring back on and all you say is "I forgot". That to me is an excuse.
Hubby: Look, I was simply asking you about if you wash your hands. Never mind, let's just let it go.
Me: Bullcrap
Hubby: You are just like my sister, you can't just let it go. (**Thank goodness he didn't say I was like his 1st or 2nd wife)
Me: Things have really been going good for us lately...being affectionate, and not feeling any tension or distance.
Hubby: Ok
Me: Forget it.
And then we go to bed angry not resolving it.
The next morning, which is today, after he takes his shower, I somewhat wake up. He asks me if I want coffee, so being hurt, I guess I had that tone in my voice...I guess stating that I always want coffee. And then he replies, never mind, let's not go golfing because we still have that aura from the night before and right now. So, I said fine.
After a while I say
Me: I'm sorry for the way I reacted. I didn't respect your feelings and I know you weren't trying to be mean. I promise to do a better job in respecting your feelings. Again, I'm sorry for the way I reacted.
Hubby: That's ok. We don't need to relive it. Its over and done with.
Me: Its not ok. I need to do a better job in respecting your feelings and I'm sorry...then I give him a kiss on the cheek.
After a few hours go by, he's in one room and I'm in other. And we are "silent". I was hoping that when I said "I'm sorry" that things would be ok. When I gave him the kiss on the cheeck, I was hoping to kiss and make up.
I go into the other room and I asked him if he is still mad at me. He replies no. Evertyhing is good. And I said no there not. Then he proceeds to tell me that not everything can go your way. Just because you apologize that everything is not going to be coshere. You need to let me be me. Sometimes I don't even know my own feelings. So, then we again argue.
I decided to go for a drive and after I come back, I asked him why can't we make amends.
Me: I was hoping after I apologized that we can make amends and continue the way we had been before this arguement)
Hubby: I tell you I don't know my own feelings. I felt we were ok and things are just going on.
Me: But I was hoping that we can go on "together"
Hubby: We are going on "together"...we still are married...as far as I know we are still married.
Me: But..
Hubby: Then just DIVORCE me or you can just accept things. Its your choice. I just don't feel I'm good enough for you.
Me: *SHOCKED* that he mentioned "DIVORCE"
Hubby: Do you know what I think a marriage is? Its about "ACCEPTANCE". However, you think marriage needs work everyday and that's where we differ
Me: Ok.
I leave again for the next couple of hours.
Sorry, this is long, but I wanted to give you guys a thorough example. And now I'm on the pc and my hubby is playing a game of golf.
What do you guys think?
Edited 6/24/2006 7:37 pm ET by casey0201
Edited 6/24/2006 7:39 pm ET by casey0201
Edited 6/24/2006 8:12 pm ET by casey0201

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If my husband was uptight and I accepted him as such, I would just say "yes, I do" and leave it at that.
Sometimes couples say things that irritate the other and it's often best to just let it go. Learning to not sweat the small stuff is the way to succeed in a relationship. I know that I say stuff that irritates my DH and he just lets it slide. Likewise, I get annoyed when he doesn't listen to what I've said and I've got to repeat myself half an hour later. But I let that slide too. Tolerance comes with acceptance of each other.
Another thing to remember: your husband is right when he says "Just because you apologize that everything is not going to be coshere". Apologies can't remove the past and what has been said. Every single ding dong arguement you have takes you one step closer to breaking your marriage.
I do have a question for you though....this arguement was started because you didn't let a trivial matter slide. But does your husband often do the same to you? For example, does he get angry and start yelling if you ask about his wedding ring? How does he react when you raise a matter with him?
One last thing....why were you shocked that he mentioned the D word? Were you not aware that he's as miserable as you are?
I agree with you on the part about letting little things go. However, I was more "shocked" when he brought this up, therefore I was defensive. Yes, I'll admit I was.
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I tend to disagree with you on this part. Probabaly the frequency of arguements that we have might take us one step close to our marriage failing, however, arguements due tend to happen in a marraige and it all depends on if you really want to work at your marriage.
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Another thing I disagree with you is I don't feel he's as "miserable" as you seem to think he is. We have had 2 great weeks of just being close and affectionate. Since I've been initiating affection more, I could tell just by the way he touches me (its been a while since I felt that kind of touch), he seems to feel loved. Maybe that's why I was hoping that after I apologized that we could get back that loving feeling before this arguement happened. And I haven't been miserable these last 2 weeks either. But then again, maybe I'm wrong with the way I look at things. Maybe I think things are going good when they really aren't. I just know its been really nice until this fight happened.
>>However, I was more "shocked" when he brought this up<<
I totally understand. I could not even date someone who was that uptight about cleanliness. I NEVER wash my hands in the middle of the night LOL. However, you've married him knowing that he's terribly anal, so I suppose these types of issues are to be expected and accepted as one of his foibles.
>>I tend to disagree with you on this part. Probabaly the frequency of arguements that we have might take us one step close to our marriage failing, however, arguements due tend to happen in a marraige and it all depends on if you really want to work at your marriage.<<
Yes, it's the frequency of the arguements that I'm referring to. And also the fact that that you're arguing about petty things. These petty, frequent screaming matches are partly why your marriage is so frail.
I don't believe that a good marriage necessarily takes loads of work. It may need some tweaking here and there...but if a couple is philosophically suited, things just mesh easily. The great big fights just don't happen because you already agree on the things that matter.
>>Another thing I disagree with you is I don't feel he's as "miserable" as you seem to think he is. We have had 2 great weeks of just being close and affectionate. Since I've been initiating affection more, I could tell just by the way he touches me (its been a while since I felt that kind of touch), he seems to feel loved. Maybe that's why I was hoping that after I apologized that we could get back that loving feeling before this arguement happened. And I haven't been miserable these last 2 weeks either. But then again, maybe I'm wrong with the way I look at things. Maybe I think things are going good when they really aren't. I just know its been really nice until this fight happened.<<
Sweetie, within the three weeks or so, you've told us your husband has said
*He feels unloved by you
*He feels rejected by you not initiating affection
*He feels your dog loves him more than you do
*Just last night he said he feels you don't accept him
*He feels you have philosophical differences
*And I'm sure he wouldn't be terribly happy about the frequent screaming matches.
(This is off the top of my head. Forgive me if I've slightly mis-quoted, but this is the gist of his complaints as I understand them)
All in all, this sounds like one miserable dude. You may have had a good two weeks, but two weeks is NOTHING in the grand scheme of things. All this hurt and confusion that he harbors will not go away the instant you start to be affectionate. At this stage, he's probably tentatively waiting to see if it lasts.
I also just want to reassure you that I don't think you're 100% in the wrong here. Any man who is on his 3rd marriage has got to have some serious faults going on. While I do tend to understand why he's upset, I'm sure that he's also contributing somehow. One of the reasons I keep asking questions is to try and find out what he's doing wrong here.
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Can you give me a clear explaination on what you mean by "philosophically" suited. My hubby has often used this word "philosophical" and I have no idea what he really means by it. And yes, I've asked him, however, he replies "I don't want to argue about it".
>>Can you give me a clear explaination on what you mean by "philosophically" suited<<
In this context it means the way one approaches life and marriage.
In your marriage:
Your husband thinks that a marriage should just 'happen' while you believe it takes work. A philosophical difference.
Your husband wearing his wedding ring is important to you, but not to him. To you it's a symbol of your vows and to him it's a piece of jewelry. Neither of you is right or wrong - it's a philosophical difference.
Cleanliness: Your husband is anal about being clean. I don't know where you stand, but I don't wash my hands in the middle of the night. And I'm not going to start now. It would wake me up too much LOL If I haven't died from poor hygiene in my 38 years, it can't be such a bad thing. For what it's worth, I only wash the floor when my feet start to stick to it. I suspect this would drive your husband insane and I doubt we could even compromise.
The following examples are generalisations and not a reflection on your marriage.
I wouldn't tolerate a partner raising their voice at me. And neither would my husband. So, we work out our differences calmly and without anger. Whereas, some couples are both volatile and raising their voices works for them. However, if one partner is a yeller and one prefers to discuss things calmly or even to "let it go" - it's not going to work.
Ethics are one big area where philosophies should match. Do both parties share the same ideals about life, the universe and everything?
From personal experience, an optimist would have a lot of trouble living with a pessimist. Philosophies again.
Childrearing: Is one person a "should be seen and not heard" while the other is overly permissive?
Marriage: DH and I are not technically married. Instead, we're long term defacto. 13 years now. (We have legal recognition as partners here in Australia). This suits us because neither of us is worried about paperwork. However, the philosophies of MANY people would disagree with us. And none of those people would make good partners for DH or I.
Another personal experience: DH and I have an autistic child. We both agree that we should love and accept him for how he is and not try to 'fix' him or make him 'normal'. However, I've seen many marriages fail because one person wants to 'fix' the autistic child and the other wants acceptance.
Money: If one person is a big spender and the other is a saver.
Sexuality: If one person loves to push the boundaries and the other is strictly vanilla with no oral sex.
There would be many more examples...but do you get the gist?
Edited 6/25/2006 5:08 am ET by iv_aisha2004
Hi again Casey....
Let me preface this post by saying that it may *appear* that I'm taking your DH's side, but that's only because you are the one here asking for advice. The only advice that I can give is aimed toward you. If he was on here asking, my advice would be somewhat different and aimed toward changes that he can make.
About this particular fight - he probably shouldn't have asked something like that (this is one of the things I would be suggesting to him if he was here), but he did do it in a respectful manner and was simply asking you a question. You *assumed* that he was *implying* that you are not clean. Do you see the leaps you were making here?
As for the second part of the argument (after his shower and was on the computer). It started off good - you told him how you felt. But when he came out and said that he WASN'T saying you were unclean it should have been the end of it.
Then (IMHO) is where it went down hill. First, I don't know who started the yelling and screaming or if it was only one of you or both doing it but at that point you both should have just taken a timeout to cool off a bit. The next big problem is when you brought uup his wearing the wedding ring. If it's that important to you (and it sounds like it is) then you should bring it up when it happens. But if you are arguing about one thing (in this case washing your hands), then you should ALWAYS stick to ONLY that subject and not bring other arguments into it. There are all kinds of books and web sites that talk about "fighting fair" when you argue with your spouse. One of the main themes that I have seen thru all of them is that you shouldn't rehash old arguments to "bolster" your side in a new one. That just adds to the confusion and muddies the water that much more. Stick to the one thing you are arguing about.
Lastly - the way that you apologized was VERY good - there wasn't anything more that you could have done or should have done (IMHO). But he was right - just because you apologized, doesn't mean that he HAS to automatically just be "better". It may take a while for the apology to sink in or it may never really sink in. But he did say that he would like to drop it and get past it. To me, that was him saying that even tho you may have "philosophical" differences about washing your hands, he was willing to say "OK - I can control washing my own hands and my wife controls washing her own hands. I've told her how I feel about it and it's up to her to do what she wants with it and I am OK with that".
A few different times you've asked what he means by philosophical differences. To me, this is a good example. He told you his philosophy on washing hands. You have your own and the 2 aren't exactly the same. To me it sounds like he can live with those differences (provided you're not outside pumping out a septic tank and then not washing your hands) and he never tried to change your philosophy. He asked if you would consider how he feels and wash your hands, but never *told* you to do it or said it was a deal breaker.
Best of luck to you...
Jeff
Casey,
I understand why you were offended by the question about hand washing, but in the grand scheme of things, this is not a big issue. Why dig in and fight about it?
You guys started off ok with this argument, and then you violated one of the cardinal rules of fighting fair. You brought in another old unresolved argument--the wedding ring.
When you start yelling, that's sign it is time to take a break, not keep going. It will only go downhill if you do because no one is listening at this point. Now it's about winning and inflicting pain.
It was good of you to apologize, although you should have apologized for the ring bit too. You should have let him be and sort himself out in my opinion.
Then he starts throwing the D word around?? Way out of bounds. He seems very much my way or the highway, eh?
You both still need to work on your communication skills. It seems you both begin well, but once your emotions come into play, it goes to hell in a handcart. Have you considered counseelling for this? Communication skills can be learned, and better communication would help greatly here.
jg
Thanks jeffkristi & iv_aisha for all the examples of "philosophical" differences.
I guess I'm just feeling confused on what really to do. Yesterday after I got back from the gym, we were pretty silent. No one really wanted to talk....so, after a few hours of being silent, I decided I wanted to try and talk. So, here I go again "going" to him.
Me: Are we going to talk?
Hubby: What would you like to talk about?
Me: The tension that is in this room. How can we correct this tension that we have. I thought these last 2 weeks were good.
Hubby: I don't know how to correct this tension.
Me: Did you notice that there wasn't very much tension this last 2 weeks?
Hubby: I didn't think of it. I just know we didn't argue.
**By this time I can feel he's getting frustrated (but I have NO clue as to why)
Me: Why are you getting frustrated with me so quickly? Can't we just talk? So, you mean to tell me you haven't noticed a little change in the last 2 weeks? (**Hoping he would notice that I'm initiating more affection)
Hubby: I just know we didn't argue
Me: You know when you said "you can just accept things or then divorce me"?
Hubby: Yea
Me: Do you want a divorce?
Hubby: I'm just giving you an option
Me: Ok, will you answer the question
Hubby: If I want a divorce, I'll tell you
Me: EXACTLY. If I want a divorce I'll tell you. You don't need to give me an option
**By this time we are both pretty frustrated/upset/angry
Hubby: I just don't feel I'm good enough for you. Its like you just keep pushing my buttons until you back me into a corner
Me: Will it seems like the only time you talk to me is when I back you into a corner, otherwise, we don't talk.
Hubby: You know when we had sex last week, was it really that good?
Me: I was hoping the reason why we had sex was because we were both starting to feel loved.
Hubby: I had sex because YOU never want it. You say you do and you talk about it, but you never want it. If I want it, then its up to me, otherwise, there's no sex.
Me: So, that's the reason why we had sex...because its been a long time.
Hubby: Yes
Me: **(By the time, I'm really thinking of asking him for a divorce...but I hestitate and say..) Do you want a divorce?
Hubby: No, I don't want a divorce. I've had enough failed marriages.
Me: If you still want to work on our marriage, we need to find a way to communicate. You say we don't talk. The reason why I don't talk is there's too many distractions. The minute you get home, you go straight to your pc and turn it on...wait a few minutes and then you are on it until we eat dinner. Then you back to your pc and we don't talk. I'm not going to compete with a pc, therefore, I don't talk.
Hubby: I can do several things at the same time
Me: Never mind. I don't see how you can say that you can do several things at the same time.
Hubby: I want to work on our marriage but I just don't know how we can communicate better.
Me: Are you saying that because you mean it or are you saying that because you want to shut me up. (**His tone was insensitive and it was that tone that said If I tell her something, then maybe she will shut up)
Hubby: Yes
Me: Well, I hope you mean it.
**after we argued, several hours go by.
Hubby: Do you want to golf
Me: I thought you said you didn't want to golf
Hubby: Well, I've been watching some golf on tv and getting the itch to go.
Me: Well, the course that you suggested, I'm pretty sure its golf cart only, therefore you wouldn't be able to walk the course. Wait a minute the last time you golf, you did walk. (I think I gave that story about how we were paired up with 2 other people and a few minutes after we golfed, my hubby started walking while I drove the cart. I had no idea why he walked. The 2 people asked me if we had a fight and I said no. Well after the round, my hubby stated that no we weren't fighting and that's why he started walking...to avoid a fight...he thought he sensed we were going to fight, therefore he walked)
Hubby: I don't like the way you drive the cart
Me: Well, to alleviate your frustration, you can drive the cart.
Hubby: Never mind. Its not a good idea to go golfing.
Me: Now, what did I say?
Hubby: Nothing. Its ok. I don't want to golf anymore.
**Again, I follow him to the other room
Me: Now, all the sudden you don't want to golf
Hubby: You brought up something and I just don't want to golf anymore
Me: I don't have ESP...can to elaborate what that "something" is?
Hubby: Never mind, I don't want to golf anymore.
Me: **confused**
Hubby: **(getting pissed) You brought up the part about me walking at the course. It was like you were trying to re-live "why" I was walking.
Me: No, I wasn't trying to re-live that part. I just wanted to point out that you/other golfers can walk the course. It had nothing...repeat...nothing to due with re-living it. (**I'm really pissed by now because he thought I was being vindictive, when I wasn't)
Hubby: Ok, fine. Thank you.
Me: You don't need to thank me. Forget it. I'm getting something to eat. Do you want me to pick you up anything?
Hubby: No, its alright. THanks
Me: Bye
**I come back and watch tv. He's also sitting on the couch. And then after I eat, I'm in total shock...
Hubby: Do you want to golf?
Me: (**Thinking here we go again). I thought you told me you didn't want to golf
Hubby: Well,.....I just.....
Me: **Walking up to my hubby and give him a kiss and say "No, its ok, you go. Thinking that I gave him a kiss, that he wouldn't think I'm being vindictive.
After that, I take a little nap. When I wake up for a few minutes later, I noticed he also took a nap. Now, I'm confused. So, I go back to sleep.
After an hour, we are both awake
Hubby: Are you hungry
Me: Yea, I could eat
Then we are off to eat. Now, since this whole thing started with the "washing of the hands", I have not initiated any type of affection, except to kiss him. I am very confused. I really thought in my heart that these last 2 weeks were great and I wasn't feeling any tension. However, my hubby says he didn't really feel any tension....but does that mean he really has?
He doesn't want a divorce because he says he's already had enough failed marriages. So, is he staying in this marriage because he doesn't want a THIRD failed marraige?
But on the other hand, he says he wants to work on our marriage but doesn't know how we can communicate better. He says we don't talk. What exactly does that mean "we don't talk"?
Oh yea, he's also very bitter at work. He says that he doesn't get appreciated. I'm not sure if I can compete with his bitterness at work.
I guess for me what's really hurting is he hasn't noticed any of the initiating of affection on my part for the last 2 freaking weeks. Maybe me "trying" is just a waste of my time.
Edited 6/26/2006 4:58 pm ET by casey0201
Oh yea, one more thing, after dinner last night, he again suggested to go golfing. I have no idea why he has been suggesting to go golfing....maybe he knew he was wrong when he thought I was trying to re-live something and it wasn't the case at all...I don't know.
Anyways, wish me luck. We are going golfing this afternoon. Let's hope its a "good" golf day for both of us.
Hi there,
My heart really goes out to both of you in this situation. I think that you guys are arguing more about what you THINK the other is saying then about what is actually going on. You got upset because you thought he was implying that you were less cleanly then he wants to you to be. You got upset because you thought he was critcizing you in some way. Both of you sound like you are dealing with a lot of insecurity in this relationship. Once one of you initiates an argument it spirals out of control, by yelling and screaming at each other you take a small disagreement and turn it into an all out bloody battle. That is why it takes so long for you to make up. That is why both of you harbor resentment left over from the fight, this resentment grows and grows and you argue and argue until neither one of you know what you are fighting about anymore. Neither one of you is wrong or right. You do have to make a commitment not to disrespect each other. Yelling, screaming, name calling, and unfair fighting (mentioned by other posters) are all disrespectful behaviors. When you are in a relationship with someone you have to take a leap of faith that they are not critcizing you to be mean, that they really have you and your relationship in their best interest. You end up in a cycle of petty arguments when neither one of you trusts each other and are not secure in the relationship. Your husband seems to be insecure that you desire him sexually, and you seem to be insecure that he approves of you. You should set aside a mutually agreed upon time to address these issues rather then approaching him when he may or may not be in a place where he wants to talk. Hope this helps a little...
Angel
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