how can i stop my unhealthy ways...
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| Wed, 04-20-2005 - 11:37pm |
Hi everybody,
I m an ivillage reader/lurker, i don't post regularly but i have in the past. I just need anyones advice on how to love someone unconditionally, you know, the kind of love that you are not distracted by your own neurotic needs. Someone who can shed some light of a healthier way to handle certain situations.
Here is my story..., i have been with my b/f for 2 years, i m 30 and he is 29. We both love each other very much. For the most part we are happy with each other. Without boring you with the details... I believe i am sabotaging the relationship by being too pocessive/needy, maybe even codep. at times. If you ask me... i have all the reasons in
the world to act the way i do. ( please keep in mind that it is probably not as bad as i m making it sound like, i tend to be too hard on myself and others at times..)
I dislike his friends for good reasons(I have posted the problem with his friends before), there for i do not like him hanging out with his friends. He usually always invite me, and i go with him 70% of the times. the other time when he goes without me, i usually throw a fit or i feel resentment toward him. The funny thing is, he doesn't even hang out with his friend that much, maybe 1-2 a week.
I do not think very highly of his family, even tho we get along fine. I don't express that to him anymore, i understand that i don't ever want to speak badly about his family. Still,.. i pout when we have to get together with his family and look the other way when he talks about his family.
FACTS - I work mon- fri. and he works mon-sat. we usually spend
thursday - sunday together, and mon- wednsday i stay at my own
apartment and he goes home.
I complained that we don't spend enough time with each other.
and it seems like i get jealous at anybody in his life that matters to
him.( no big fight or nothing, just uncomfortableness and i m pretty sure he can sense it) its like i just want me to be everything to him and thats it. other wise i feel hurt and unwanted. I know it has alot to do with my own issues. ( fear abandonment...) and i look at him to fullfill all my needs which i know i should not do. But it is just so hard for me to get rid of those icky feelings when it surface. At that moment ...
my emotions just takes over. and i can no longer think anymore, all i can hear in my head is.." what about meeeee, poor meeeee, you don't care about meeee", and i lashes out at him. I don't know how to turned that switch off. i tried before but all i feel afterwards is resentment for him, and plotting some evil plans in my head about how i m going
to get him back.( usually along the line of finding another guy and dump him and break his heart..which i will never do in reality, but at that moment these thought kind of ease my feeling of hurtness.)
I take classes 2 days a week ( vallyball and ceramics) i do
enjoy them alot. I have friends which i see them maybe once a week or once every other week. because I do not enjoy the actitivies with them any longer ( all they want to do is go to bars, party, drink...).I see a therapist once every other week. which helps me sort out my thoughts to a degree. but I still do not know how to change my attitude toward my pocessive/neediness. I want to stop my unhealthy ways and i believe i will drive him away if i keep this up. Please give me your advice on how to get over this emotion obstacle of mine and mantain a healither relationship. Thanks so much for your time. I
am going to post this later on another board ( maybe codep. or something, maybe they can refer me to some meeting.)Sorry for the long post. Thanks again.

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Welcome back, Mermaidundersea ~ It’s going to be a few minutes before I can get to your post, but as soon as I saw your name I recognized you and wanted to provide the link to your previous post so others who might respond to you have the benefit of better understanding of your previous issues as, even if the issue is different, they most often help give more insight and understanding to you.
b/f too giving or i don't understand?
How are things going in relation to your previous post? From the quick read I gave your post, it looks like you’re with the same boyfriend, yes? How are things going in relation to the problem you posted about in your previous post? I’ll be back soon!
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
What does your therapist say about your behavior and your concerns? What does s/he suggest you do to stop behaving this way? Does s/he think you're sabotaging the relationship too? The thing is, your therapist knows you, your situation, your past and the dynamics of your relationship and is in a very much better position to offer sound suggestions than we are. Not to mention your therapist has years of training and professional experience (I'm assuming s/he is licensed for the purpose you're seeing him/her for).
I assume you stay at your place rather than his because he still lives with his family and that situation hasn't changed much. If that's the case (and please let me know if it's not the case), I'd say a big reason you have so much trouble being around his family and listening to him talk about them is you resent them, how they affect your boyfriend, and how the situation has your boyfriend working harder than anyone else in the family. You view them as freeloading from him (and I'd guess that they are, at least they certainly aren't stepping up to the plate and matching the work he's putting in). You're angry at them because of what they do to your boyfriend, like you did in you described in your previous post. The thing is, they aren't doing anything to your boyfriend. He's making his own choices and is in control of what he does and does not do, including how he allows them to "take advantage" of him. I know you've heard it before, but I'll say it anyway because it's true: No on can take advantage of you without your permission. Your boyfriend allows them to do what they do. He chooses to live this way. Most likely, it was instilled in him waaaay back in childhood when his father left that he was the "man of the family" and it was up to him to take care of everyone. His role was set at that point and he, and the rest of the family play their roles and they're all content to do so. Your boyfriend is probably doing what he feels he's supposed to be doing. You may think it's wrong, unfair, unhealthy, whatever, but as long as he's happy and satisfied with it, that's the way it's going to stay. Until he doesn't want it to continue, it will. He's the only one who can end it.
I hate to say this, and you're not going to like it, I'm sure, but add his family and his friends together and I'd say you don't like your boyfriend as much as you'd like to. You don't like how he lives his life (caring for his family in the manner that he chooses) you don't like his friends (these are the people he has chosen as those that he likes and prefers). I'd say you don't care much for some very important choices he makes and a very large part of his personality and character. There may be plenty of things you like very much about him, but there are some very important areas that you do not like at all -- and those are a very big part of him and who he is.
The easy answer is that if you don't care for his friends then you should bow out when he goes out with them. It doesn't sound like he goes out with them excessively and it doesn't sound like you think he does either. If you think he's entitled to go out with his friends as often as he does, what does it matter who he's with if you don't have to go along? (and if you don't like them, you shouldn't).
As far as your friends go, it sounds like you've outgrown your old group and need to find a new group of friends; maybe those you play volleyball with and do ceramics with would be a good place to start. I could go into a spiel about how you're both entitled to time away from each other and how having time to himself is important, but knowing that won't matter much in the face of a reaction that you have that you already identify as being "wrong" (getting needy and only thinking "what about meeee"). It sounds like you have some issues that probably were in place long before your boyfriend came on the scene, yes? Those are things that will have to be identified and worked through with your therapist, no one can tell you how to "just stop" doing something that has deep roots. If you could "just stop" you already would have.
Honestly though, I think you want to like your boyfriend a lot more than you really do. You don't accept or approve of how he chooses to deal with his family and you don't accept or approve of his choice of friends. Those are pretty big parts of him, his values, morals, character and personality. Those are things that aren't subject to change. While he may end his friendships, the fact that those kinds of people are who he prefers and chooses, he'll replace them with others that will be very similar in character and personality and I promise you, you won't like them any better. I think a big part of your frustration is that you want him to change rather than being happy with him and accepting him as he is.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Thanks 2nd_life,
Just to clearify everything, the problem from my last post had actually improved, and yes i m still with the same guy. We stayed at my place thursday - sunday, and he goes home from monday- wed.( i go to his house with him sometimes but rarely, because its crowded and noisy there i need my own quiet time.) Like i said, the problem with his family had improved alot, mainly is because i realized that it is his own choice, althought this trait of him annoys me at times, it is also why i fell inlove with him in the first place, i think it displayed his charator which he is not going to just drop or give up on anyone that he loved or cared about. I am aware that i get jealous sometimes and wish I can be everything to him and thats it. which i know its unhealthy.
My therapist thinks my insecurity and neediness stem from my childhood, fear of abandonment, and wanting to have "daddy" all to myself. Usually she had me role playing other people, i guess so i can see things from their prespective, and she often had me punching some pillow ( which made me feel very uncomfortable). Sometimes i m skeptical about the method my therapist is using, but i m going to stick with her from now since it is only my 5th months seening her.
My situation with his friends ( i had also post on the board before under the name "eyesofeve" if you want to look it up), I ll just make a long story short here. At first, i had no problem with them at all, I was even begin to get close to some of them, untill few incidents that made me feel that they will never be loyal friends to me because of their alliance with my boyfriends ex-girlfriend, which they ( my b/fs group of friends which included his ex) had all been friends for over 10 years.
I totally understand your assumption about me not liking my boyfriend as much as I like to. It might be true to a certain degree, but i believe for the most part it is just me wanting to have him all to myself. I m starting to embrace the way he is with his family ( like i said thats what attracted me about him in the first place) and I can relate to his friends behavior toward me, and you are right about him goes not even go out with them excessively. I totally agree with what you said about "If you think he's entitled to go out with his friends as often as he does, what does it matter who he's with if you don't have to go along? (and if you don't like them, you shouldn't)." I have not thought about it that way ...thanks it really knocked some sense into me. ( i also have these insecurity thoughts about what other people would think about me, it is like his love for me is going to validate me as "somebody")
My whole thing is that i see and am aware of everything that i m doing, but it is just hard for me to stop acting the way i do sometimes. I guess like you said, i would have to work on the roots of my emotional turmoil. and stop look at him to fulfill my every needs. Please let me know if you think other wise, and if you think some kind of codep group meeting would help someone in my case? Sorry about the long post. Thanks again for reading it. i will try to keep in mind about what you said next time when i m about to "flipped out" your support is important and encouraging to me. have a good day!
I had a therapist when I was 19 that wanted me to do that pillow punching thing. I was also very uncomfortable with it. I forget how long I saw him, maybe a year and a half? I don't think he helped me much.
My current therapist is awesome. I also have abandonment issues. You might want to check out a book "Wounded Woman" It was very helpful to me.
When you fear abandonment, you think this person leaving me will be the worst thing in the world. You do whatever you can to keep that from happening, but as you have seen, sometimes holding on too tight is what will cause the relationship to fail. I am always reminding myself that if my current relationship with my bf doesn't work out, it will be okay. I will go on living and I will have a happy and bright future. It's still not easy. When I feel desperate or think that my bf is pulling away, I fight the feelings I have and I just stay calm and remember that I am strong, and whatever happens is not necessarily in my control. If he decides the relationship is over, I will deal with that when it happens. Until then, I just have to assume that it can work out, and do things that support it working out. All I can do is be myself and he loves me and wants a future with me too, then that is great. If not, okay.
I think you should change therapists. It is sometimes hard to find one you click with, but when you do it's invaluable.
HI firstamendment,
Thanks for you reply, I will definitly check out the book "wounded woman".
About my therapist, I thought about looking for another therapist alot. I went to her because she was the only one there that would take my insurance at this place called the "Dimele center". Armand Dimele is this psychologist whom i admire and look up to in a great deal. He has this show on the radio, i listen to him whenever i get the chance to. He has a website also which is "thepositivemind.com". I went to the center actually hoping to have him as my therapist, but realized that i have already made him as a father figure in my mind that i get real emotional when i saw him in person, and i felt the need to have him like me. It was just too much for me that i knew he wouldn't be right for me as a therapist.
My b/f and I actually spilt up back in Nov of last year for like a month. During that period time, I was actually having the most sane state of mind. I mean i had my days of sadness, uncontrolable crying. But after a few days , I picked myself up and was doing all the right things, I was actually thinking straight and seening what went wrong with the relationship. ( i had also post that experience on the "mending broking heart" board) We got back in a month or so, and for the first month i was doing good, but after that i fell back to my old unhealthy way of thinking again. He has been very good with my "neediness". He gives me reassurance when i need it. I do feel little embarrassed and regret lashing out on him alot of times. Maybe that is a good start for me, to get embarrassed to a point that i will not behave that way anymore. I am going to try to acknowledge my feelings but not act on it.Thanks for reading my post. I ll keep you updated, thanks again!
I meant to talk about neediness in my other post. I actually went the opposite direction with that, I have perfected having "no needs" because I don't believe anyone would want to meet my needs, and if I try not to have any, then I won't be abandoned. Logical thinking, huh? I am trying so hard to believe that my needs are valid and important, it's really a struggle. It's not that my needs go away, they just don't get met because I tell myself they don't need to be met. I also struggle with the term "neediness" because I have perceived having any needs means I am "needy." But in reality we are all needy (or have needs) and that can be healthy. So the way I try and think of it now is that if I feel my bf needs to call me so I can feel okay, then that is being "needy" and I need to address that feeling on my own. He is not responsible for how I feel. If I feel lonely and I'm sick, and I want someone to cuddle and watch a movie with me (and since I'm in a relationship), it is perfectly fine to say "can we cuddle?" There I am expressing a need that is okay to have and he can then meet my need and that is healthy (or not meet my need, and then it's something I will obviously have to do without, and I can be okay with that because my tendency is to think my needs are unimportant so that is easy). It's amazing how hard it is for me to say to my bf "I need you right now." Suppressing the desire to express that need is just as unhealthy as being "needy." It's a balance, I think.
What is your relationship with your father? Since you talk about abandonment issues and wanting a father figure, did he abandon you? That is where most of my abandonment issues stem from.
his friends.....
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
What you mentioned on your post is like the other side of the same coin. both stem from some kind of insecurity issues, fear of abandonment. I guess thats where i m having a hard time defining where the balance is, because i sometimes mistaken my emotions as the reality.
It is hard for me to discribed the relationship with my father, because he was hardly there. I think there are memories that i blocked out and there are some that i actually made up. My father was very abusive toward woman (physically, sexually and mentally) and that is the reason why my mother divorced my father ( when i was only 3 years old). My mother left the country to start her new life in America, left my sister and I with him because my fathers family was very wealthy and powerful. ( I will not mention the country where i was from due to my paranoia ) My father was never around, his parents( my grandparents) took care of us most of the time. He was never really physically abusive toward us but we were scared of him to death whenever he is around. Still, I held a special place in my heart for him... They all told me that I took after my fathers good looks and that he loved me more than his other children. ( He remarried like 5 times after my mom, and had 3 other kids with my stepmoms) During my preteen age, He was home less and less and i can feel that he was uncomfortable with me growing into a young woman. At the age of 14, He agreed to sent my sister and I to the U.S to live with my mother, since he was never around anyway. By that time my grandfather had passed, and my grandmother was too old to look after us. Since i came to the U.S. I spoke to him on the phone a couple of times and havn't not spoke to him in like 5 years. I still hear about him since my sister lives in the same state as him ( he later on, moved to the U,S, with his new family too). But i know they rarely get together or anything.
I understand this is something i have to work with my therapist. I stopped going to my current therapist, and i m in the process of looking for another one.
Thank you CL-2nd life for helping me find my first post. I understand you have to spend some time with your family...but... what about MEEEEEe...Just kidding! Wish you and your family the best of everything and i m looking foward for your reponds. I m also going to be busy for the weekend, probably will not check bck untill monday, Everyone have a great weekend. THANKS AGAIN!
I think you would really find a lot of yourself in that book "Wounded Woman" It's all about relationships with our fathers, no matter what they are, how they affect us and how to move on from that.
My parents also divorced when I was 3. We saw my dad sporatically, and then when I was 5 we moved to where my mom's parents lived. After that we usually just saw him for a couple months each summer, then he killed himself when I was 11. I refer to his suicide as the "ultimate abandonment." My first bf dumped me by just disappearing with no explanation, and that pain was so horrible and reminded me so much of the pain from my father, that I just shut it off. I (subconciously) decided the only way to not feel pain was to not expect anything from anyone. You mentioned you are forever searching for a father figure. Maybe instead of feeling pain like I did, you just feel longing and needing and so that is what you seek, someone to fill that emptiness. I have the emptiness, but my main goal was to not be abandoned by anyone else so I learned to make the emptiness be unimportant.
Anyway, the book covers just about every issues someone could have in their relationship with their father. I saw myself in a certain 'type' described in the book, but I read about all the 'types' because it was interesting.
You said "the problem with his family had improved alot, mainly is because i realized that it is his own choice, althought this trait of him annoys me at times, it is also why i fell inlove with him in the first place..." This sounds very much like the opposite side of the same coin problem that can crop up in a relationship. For instance, say what attracted you to a guy was his quietness. Years later the thing that you hate about him is that he never talks to you. The trait that attracted you and the trait that you hate are the same trait, opposite sides of the same coin. If you don't like, don't want to be with someone who isn't talkative to you, you'd better be aware of how his quiet nature will affect you, you know? I can see how you'd be very attracted to his deep sense of obligation and care considering your relationship with your father, but how will this play out in the future? His family isn't going to go away, and in truth, those issues will very likely get more complicated as time goes on. His mother will age and need more care, as will his siblings who are dependant on him. What's going to happen? Will he expect them to move in with him or he move in with them? Will he be able to afford to hire live-in help? Will he send mom and siblings to a retirement home (not likely)? This part of him you love may well be a real nightmare for you to live with down the road. His sense of obligation isn't likely to ease. I'd look down the road as far as I could and bounce off scenarios with him before making any commitments for sure.
Old issue, I know, but the friends issue. I can totally see how this all could happen and I think the part that you're not taking into consideration is the length of their friendship with this girl. I completely understand your feelings and how this whole thing would make you feel their allegiance is with her and not with you (and you're right) and I can also see how that would create hard feelings for you and would make it difficult for you to be around them. BUT.....if you can, look at it from their side, they've been friends with this girl for ten years. You, on the other hand are new to them, unknown. In the fight, where they pulled you apart and one of the friends spoke harshly to you, think about it from their perspective. Their friend (your boyfriend) was hurt. This other friend (ex-girlfriend) was upset. Emotions were high for all the friends, not just you and this ex. SHE was upset and they are old friends with her. It's kind of a no-brainer that they'd be more caring towards her being upset than you in the same situation, you know? Maybe you can't see it because of being in the middle of it all, that would be totally understandable. Maybe if you could imagine a generic scene where you're the friend pulling apart a new member of the group and an old friend that you've known and cared about for ten years. Knowing that this old friend is acting out of upset and care for your other injured friend is going to make you even more sympathetic with the old friend. Does that make sense? Maybe help you forgive them a little? Until they know you well, they don't have the allegiance and the feelings towards you that they have for the old friend, that will come with time, just like hers did.
I agree with Firstamendment that it's time to look for a new therapist, and I'm glad you're doing that. She's exactly right, seeing a therapist you don't click with is a chore, uncomfortable, and doesn't really get you anywhere, whereas the right therapist is tremendous help, appointments that you love to go to (even when they're tough, at least I did!) and you get an incredible amount out of. The difference in progress is amazing, from "none" to "zoom"! I think more than anything else, getting to the root of your problems is the answer here. Once that is accomplished, I'm betting the rest will fall into place. Your issues with him, and within yourself, darned near all of it will be obvious and easy for you. I think your problems with your boyfriend go much deeper than him, and I know you think so too. Until you get them cleared up, relationships will be a struggle.
I haven't read the book Firstamendment is suggesting, but if she suggests it I'd say it has to be good. There are a few books with "Wounded Woman" in the title, but the one I found on Amazon that description includes relationships with fathers (which makes me assume it's the one she's referring to) is called simply "The Wounded Woman" and is written by Linda Schierse Leonard., as opposed to a book called "Restoring the Wounded Woman" that is about discouragement and heartache. Firstamendment???? Another book that has just one chapter/exercise (can't remember which) that would be helpful to you, at least in having a clearer understanding of how your relationship with your father can have such a profound affect on your attraction and choices in relationships is in "Are You the One For Me?" by Barbara DeAngelis It's been a long time since I've read it and I don't know that much of the rest would be at all helpful to you. I can't remember what chapter, except that it was in the first part of the book. I'll be out and about tomorrow, I'll see if I can't find it at a bookstore or library and find the chapter/exercise I'm talking about. If I find it I'll let you know.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
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