How much is enough? Advice wanted
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| Wed, 05-31-2006 - 9:50am |
I'll try to make this as short as possible for now, and just start in October of 2005. I'm new to this board, but not ivillage---I'm usually on the Weight Watchers Board.
Background: This is my 2nd marriage, DH's 3rd. My first one lasted 11 years (much longer than it should have) lots of issues there. I have one DS (15) that DH adopted after we were married in 2002. DH and DS have ADHD and are meds for it.
October 2005, DH was working at a local ice rink for extra money, got fired from there for taking a hockey stick out of the rink without first paying for it. He was in a hurry to go ref at another rink and had told them he would pay for it the next day when he returned. It had been autographed by the Hanson Brothers. Manager found out and even though he had gone back and paid for it, fired him for stealing and barred him from the rink for life. January 2006, gets fired from his full-time job for excessive tardiness and absenteeism. Boss was a jerk I admit, but DH didn't do much to try and make it there on time. They fight his unemployment and he finally gets it in March after an appeal. So, he tries to find another job (about half heartedly in my opinion) and finally gets one in March. Its a crappy job that requires him to use his own truck and pays only per stop, for a 2 week period he makes $500 and that was including $150 for mileage. We decide that a job closer to home makes more sense if that is all he is going to make, so he takes a job for a pool company at $10/hr and no benefits. He's been there since mid-April. Was offered a job in his field about 2 weeks ago, but it was kind of strange it eventually went to commission only and we didn't think that would work very well. The pool company bumped his pay up to $17/hr to keep him, still no benefits. He works all kinds of crazy hours, because they can't get their act together there. Last week for example he had 54.50 hours, including working Saturday. He doesn't come home until 7 or 8 pm, we can't even make plans for dinner.
For my birthday this year and last year, I got exactly nothing from him.
Anytime we have a disagreement, he always flies into a rage screaming and hollering at me. Then he'll usually end with "f*&^ you!!" He says I make everything to be his fault, which I don't if he would listen. The latest thing is Saturday night while I was asleep in bed right next to him, he got on the laptop and paid to watch porn. He's viewed it before and once or twice we have even watched a movie together, but the only reason I found out about this was from balancing the bank accounts. He says I'm making too much of it, blah, blah, blah. He says I twist everything---basically said last night that I didn't have a right to feel the way I feel about it and that if I hadn't been snooping in his e-mail I wouldn't have found out what it was. The reason I check his e-mail is in case anyone has e-mailed a response about his resume, etc so he can contact them. Plus, keep in mind this is a person who has to be "baby-sat" every day. He never gives me receipts for anytime he uses any of the bank accounts, he has to be reminded of his appontments, etc.
We're trying to get into a marriage counselor (we went before for a few times, and then stopped) but can't get in for about 3 weeks. He thinks I shouldn't say anymore about the incident until we get in.

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hockeymom, sometimes there just aren't any solutions. Now you know why he's been married 3 times.
He is what he is. According to your post, he is unfocused, disorganized, lazy, untrustworthy, unreliable, and he has a filthy mouth. I don't think that these are characteristics that can be "corrected" by marriage counseling. This is who he is. You will simply have to make a decision about staying with him or not.
For me, it would be a pretty easy call to make.
It sounds like you know exactly what you are dealing with and I respect your move to get counseling.
Peace,
Di
***If you cannot define yourself, your circumstances will.***
I guess my question was---am I really crazy?? Did I push too hard or not hard enough?
Honestly, not sure what I expect from counseling---the first time I was afraid to get into things "too deep" or say what I really felt for fear of what he would do after the session. He put his fist through a wall once at our old house. I go to counseling separately and he used to for his "anger management" problems, but stopped when his new job wouldn't give him the time to go to appointments.
I'm sure he agreed becuase I said "divorce or counseling". I asked him last night to just leave for a few days and he said he had no place to go except his brother's house. His whole family hates me anyway.
OK the only thing I agree with him about is waiting till you get to the counselor to discuss the issue. IMO I don't think given his behaviors during discussions, that you are going to be able to resolve it without help so any additional discussion is only going to make it worse.
You have a ton of stuff going on so I am glad you are going to the counselor who can help sort, identify, and prioritize.
I hear a couple of things in your post that are concerning beyond his obvious issues.
First, that you seem to be justifying some of his behaviors.....not showing up for work on time has nothing to do with if your boss is a jerk, and taking property that does not belong to you without prior permission also has nothing to do with the boss (there must have been lots more at play cause even using the term "banned for life" is an extreme respsonse). You need to reflect on why you are rationalizing....it is often a behavior of a seriously abused spouses.
Second, watching porn may be ok in some situations and settings, but doing it while you are lying in the bed next to him and not including you in anyway to me shows a deep lack of respect at best and deep underlying hatred at worst (cause not only what he is doing, but how he is doing it).
Third it sounds like your relationship is more mother/son than as partners. Why are you checking his e-mail for resume responses anyways, nevermind the snooping, and keeping track of his appointments etc. What would happen if you just stopped doing all this and he had to do it for himself??? it is often the case that women take on a lot of the responsibility for the administration of the household including appointments etc., but you sound way out-of-bounds when you use terms like "baby sat."
You might want to spend some time on the abuse boards cause my sense is that you may not understand how damaging and inappropriate his behaviors are....there are some good resources there.
Good luck and I advise you to prepare yourself for the marriage counselor by trying to decide what are the big issues for you and practice making I statements about how you feel (as opposed to blaming statements).
P.
Hockeymom....
Excuse me for being so blunt honey but WTF are you waiting for???
Peace,
Di
***If you cannot define yourself, your circumstances will.***
With all the free crap out there I'm still surprised that anyone pays for porn.
You are not wrong to have your feelings about it. Though I'm not quite sure what it is. Is it that he pays money for it or that he watches without you? I'm assuming it's not that he uses porn since you have watched it with him. If so, that sounds as though you are sending mixed messages.
He flies into rages, cusses you out, punches holes in walls.... Wow. Your 15 year old is learning to be an awesome husband.
Good luck on counseling.
Jen
Edited to add: I also completely 2nd the 2 posts previous to mine.
Edited 5/31/2006 11:22 am ET by imasillynut
I have tried the doing nothing and letting him be on his own---here is what happened (over $500 in overdraft fees to the bank), missed interviews, missed doctor's appontments (for his ADHD).
I will check out the abuse boards, first marriage was abusive, you would have thought I would have learned something.
What exactly are "I" statements?
Edited 5/31/2006 1:41 pm ET by hockeymom17
Next up -- and this is important:
Counseling. Couples counseling is not ever recommended in abuse. EVER. No domestic abuse counselor would ever agree to couples counseling. Please hear that. "Regular" counseling will confuse you, make your situation worse, and potentially put you in danger. Like you said, in counseling before you were afraid to say too much for fear of what he'd do afterward. Here's an indicator: If you can't be open and honest about your situation, if you're afraid to say what it really is, isn't that a pretty big sign that the relationship is not healthy or SAFE and that staying is not the thing to do? Here's a post from the Domestic Abuse board that explains why couples counseling is not recommended, it says it much better than I ever could:
"Regular" vs. DV Counseling
Anger management is not helpful for abusive guys. It's not an anger management issue, it's an abuse issue, and ADHD or ADD are not excuses either. It's not that he acts like this to everyone, it's that he acts this way toward you. He controls himself around others, doesn't he? See, if he was threatening and yelling and name calling to everyone, that would be anger management, but he's not doing that. He's directing it toward you. He directed it toward his ex-wives and he'll direct it toward any other woman he hooks up with as well. Sure, he'll be great at first, just like he was with you and the others. After things are secure and he knows you're firm in the relationship, that's when things start to slowly change. You end up trying to figure out what went wrong (specifically, what you're doing wrong that's made this happen) and how to get back to the way things used to be. Thing is, the way things used to be is the fantasy, what you have now is the real him. Of course, things aren't always so bad, sometimes things are good, and when they are, it makes you think he's changing back to how he used to be. You think the bad him is on the way out and the good him (the guy you've seen before, the guy you know he can be) is coming back. After a bit (days or weeks) the bad guy comes back and the glimpse of the nice guy is gone. I didn't recognize that myself for all the years of my abusive marriage, but I see it now; it's a cycle, bad guy, then good guy, then transition back to bad guy again. I was so hooked in that I didn't recognize that it wasn't improving, it was the same thing over and over, no better, no improvement, the good guy never stayed long, and never got any better.
One more very important thing you need to know about abusers. Abusers don't change. The statistics of abusers who actually change to being people who no longer are abusive is 1%. Honestly. And that's with intense domestic abuse treatment. In other words, Hockeymom, your husband is not going to change.
Another thing that you were told that is absolutely correct, your son is being brought up to be an abuser himself. He's learning how to be a man from this guy and he's learning exactly what you don't want him to learn. He's also learning that you are not worth respect and have little worth. If he's not treating you like your husband does yet, he soon will.
I would also strongly urge you to continue to post on the Dealing With Domestic Abuse board. They are in or have been in situations just like yours. Ask them questions, they'll be happy to offer you advice, suggestions and encouragement. Read the posts that are there, both current and archived ones, there's a lot of inspiration and knowledge there. Also read the Domestic Abuse Board's Homepage , it's filled with articles and information that will be very insightful to you. It's there that I first realized my ex had been verbally abusive. Even read the articles that don't seem to pertain to your situation, you'd be surprised how many places you'll find your husband's behavior fitting into and you'll learn a lot about the dynamics of verbal abuse and abuse in general. Here are some articles from their homepage to get you started:What is Verbal Abuse? (please take the time to read the intro, it's slow but it's sooo right on)
Signs of Potential Abuse: Need to Know
Traits of an Abusive Personality
Know What Domestic Violence Is
Power and Control
Extensive DV Checklist
Brainwashing
More on Brainwashing
General Characteristics of Verbal Abuse
The Power of Verbal Abusers Reality
Common Characteristics (Victim/Abuser)
The Mind of an Abuser
Is Your Relationship Healthy?
Read "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft . Bancroft is a therapist who specifically treats abusive men. His book is written for the women who are in relationships with abusive men, to give them an understanding of how these men think and what their thought process is. It's very enlightening, you'll understand a lot by reading the book. Another book to read is ?The Verbally Abusive Relationship? by Patricia Evans Check to see if your public library has a copies of these books (much easier to borrow than to buy, at least until you know you want to own them).
~ cl-2nd_life"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
I neglected to add something - if you can believe it. Sorry, I was rushing through my post to you; I had a meeting to go to, husband sitting in car waiting while I'm typing as fast as I can!
I do think that counseling would be a very smart thing, but for you, not the two of you; and the counseling you should be doing is with an abuse counselor. You can call a local women's shelter or abuse hotline for information, they can refer you to a counselor, which I believe will actually be free of charge. The fact that your first marriage was abusive and you've found yourself in another tells you that there are issues within you that have you attracted to abusive men, or there are qualities that indicate abuse that you don't recognize. Whatever it is, it's clear you've made the choice twice; it's imperative that you take a look at why that is so that you can make sure you don't repeat it again. It's also important that you get abuse counseling so you can help yourself with the situation you're in now.
~ cl-2nd_life"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
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