Husband never grew past mom problem?

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-12-2006
Husband never grew past mom problem?
9
Sat, 08-12-2006 - 8:46pm

Hello. I have an issue that I cannot find discussed anywhere Google goes... My daughter's father and I are still in love but we broke up a year ago. I know that I have lots of my own issues, and I actively work on improving how I handle things, but here's the issue: Standard advice is to approach things in a non critical way, and to respect your partner, etc. But what if you do? What if no matter what you 'ask', even if it is something you have been waiting months for, he comes flying back at you with accusations of being attacked and that 'you're not my mom and stop telling me what to do'? I can go a country mile in an effort to say things in a non-confrontational style, but he just has the same extreme defensive and attacking reaction. He has to be the center of attention all the time, he resents anything that intrudes on his selfishness, he accuses me constantly of acting like his mother. He has always complained that I don't make him feel special enough, but it doesn't matter what I do to make him feel special, he is a bottomless pit. He ALWAYS returns the gifts I get him for something else, even if the gift is one he specifically requested. The brand name will be wrong or it won't be expensive enough, it varies what the reason will be.

I am sure a few of you will say, 'well, ARE you acting like his mother?' and the answer is no. The thing is he is absolutely still angry at her for his childhood, he is 34 years old and still wants his ice cream cone when he wants it, like a toddler. Has to be macho, has to win. He made who our daughter looked like into a competition between us! I cannot make any suggestions or attempts at coparenting. He does not react well to any of that. He just does his thing and wants silence from me, because he interprets everything that comes out of my mouth as criticism. He measures every little thing that he does for me, and as an example, he said to me after I gave birth that he was now expecting me to wait on him and return all the care and favors that he had given/done for me while I was going through my extremely difficult pregnancy. Yes he was helpful, but you are supposed to do that out of love, not keep track of the score. I was deeply grateful for his help and vocalized to all around me, but he still wanted payback in kind and resented me if he felt he was being shortchanged. He also refused to have sex with me almost as soon as I was pregnant and for a year afterwards, because I was a mother now, and it gave him the creeps.

He badly wants me back. Says it will be better, says he's learned a lot since we split. But, he has not changed in those areas that I cannot tolerate, and it all goes back to the mommy thing. By the way, they cannot stand each other's company for more than twenty minutes.

So, what is the technique for disarming someone when they are not arguing with you, they are arguing with someone from twenty years ago and they can't even SEE you?

Thanks all!

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Sat, 08-12-2006 - 9:01pm

It sounds like you've done a good job for your part.

Photobucket

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-14-2006
Sat, 08-12-2006 - 9:18pm

<<>>

I am not sure based on his behavior what this love is founded in.....caring, intimacy, tenderness, acceptance, patience, kindness....these are all a big part of love between a man and a woman and are all two way streets. You two appear to have none of these so I am worried you love the idea of being with who you think he CAN BE as opposed to who he really is.

You CAN NOT do anything to fix these issues. These are his issues and only he has the power to fix them (maybe) if he really wants to and probably only with professional help. If they are as you describe with little contribution from you then these are major issues....potentially even some sort of narcissistic personality disorder (which is not curable and very difficult to manage). Has he ever had therapy or any psychological testing done? This might give you a sense of what will be required of you to stay with this man for the rest of your life....paint a picture of your existence. I doubt that he is just going to learn and adjust his behavior...that is like putting on a band aid when he needs a tournaquet...it will not be sustainable for him and if he has narcissistic tendencies he doesn't really believe anything is wrong with him, although he will tell you he does just to keep you.

Keep owrking to understand what you are in for before making any more long-term commitments to this man.

Google personality disorders and start to see if any of these match up with his behaviors. The mother thing may be the contributor/cause but not necessarily the issue.

Best of luck, P.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-12-2006
Sat, 08-12-2006 - 11:16pm

He is two people really, although not dissociative in any way. At work, he owns his own company and deals with millionaires in the proper manner. Out with his friends, he will ask a woman "your drink looks a little light, can I freshen it up for you?". So, it's not that he CAN'T act like a grownup civilized person. It's just that with me, he seems predisposed to react as if I am trying to dominate him and he has to stamp it out immediately. That said, we had a perfect first year or so...he was everything I wanted in a man. Then, he slowly became more and more chauvinistic and overprotective, while at the same time pulling a poor me every time I called him on some behavior that everyone else in his life lets him get away with because 'it's just him, and he has always done that and always will'.

He is very proactive about taking care of me and the baby in any area he thinks he should. When we were not too far down the resentment road we were extremely loving and laughed a lot. Kind and patient about a lot of things. He just seems to hold on so tight and yet resent me at the same time, which is why I say it's a thing about his mother.

Is he narcissistic? I'll vote yes on that. Can he be very loving and responsible and drop the narcissism when it suits him..I think so. His father died in a car accident when he was four, and his mother handled it very badly and went off the deep end for a while. His childhood was very unstable and his grandmother raised him for a while until she passed away too. He hates to be alone, has a 'food is family and families eat together' fixation, among others, and is very resentful toward me because I said I loved him and then I left. I came back, but he wouldn't say he loved me after that because last time he said it I had gotten what I wanted and I left him. Not rational thinking, but that is how he saw it. Now he says he sorry for holding back, and that he will regret for the rest of his life that he did not say those words on the day that I gave birth to his daughter. He said he thought them, felt them, but couldn't seem to get the words past his lips that day. I had forgotten until he reminded me. It's been three years now since that day.

He's not likely to go for counseling. It would be a shattering admission that he was wrong about something or that there was something wrong with him. He already ends any argument with lots of statements about how I think he is the worst man in the world, a terrible father, an a**hole all round. I don't. He needs to knock that stuff off.

I am reading Gottman's book about communication...maybe it will help. We are so closely tied together through family that we are always around each other in addition to sharing our beautiful daughter.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-14-2006
Sat, 08-12-2006 - 11:59pm

He puts on a mask depending on who he is dealig with, including appearing to being loving and charming. He learned this adaptive behavior no doubt as a survival mechanism as a child growing up in a very unstable home. The problem is it is only an act and he can do it for awhile, but not maintain it in the long term. My guess is the guy you saw the first year is the act and the guy you saw after the first year is the real one. He will be whomever you want him to be until he has you back under his control and then slowly slip back to who he really is. These are not behavior issues...like he leaves the seat up, or he drives too fast, or he doesn't communicate well...these are deep seeded core personality issues....fear of abandonment (can't stand to be alone, and his reaction to you leaving), always blaming others (your description of the arguments), weak sense of self (how he says you feel about him). Go ahead make an appointment with a psychologist and describe your husbands issues to him/her and then ask them what it generally takes to improve on these so you get healthy relationship behaviors.....the answer will not be reading a book on better communications.

...without some sort of intervention this is going to be a heartbreaking cycle for you and your daughter.

Sorry don't mean to upset you, just providing some opinions based on my expereince dealing with a couple of people with serious personality disorders in my life incuding my first wife. I spent seven years trying things like reading communication books (Dr. Phil Relationship Rescue, Men Are From Mars series, Marriage Encounter w/Church, Professional Therapists, etc, etc. What I learned in the end was her issues were not situational....it did not matter what I did or did not do....there was always rage, and defensiveness, and abuse, etc etc.....her reasons could change, but the behaviors did not cause that was how she dealt with the world. I kept thinking if we could communicate better, or if I just would stop doing this or start doing that, the problems would be fixed.....never worked.

Don't kid yourself here....take a hard look. It was a friend of mine who finally hit me over the head and snapped me out of it by telling me very directly that what I was describing was not healthy and relating a story from his childhood.

I truly wish you peace, P.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-12-2006
Sun, 08-13-2006 - 12:18am

Yup. I'd say you probably called it right. It's so sad. He loves me so much, and I have a deep and abiding affection and love for him. I just tend to switch off completely and get impatient when I feel that I should be dealing with an adult and he gives me a child to try to talk to. My daughter already acts very differently with each of us, and dominates him completely even while rejecting him in favor of me as small children will do sometimes. She adores him, but she knows she's the boss in his house. I expect that when she gets older they will butt heads hard because he will expect her to respect him and listen but she will have had years of winning every conversation with him. So far, they are both happy in their relationship, and I will do what I can to keep it that way as long as possible.

Do you think that someone with his history, if he did shock me to my bones and get quality counseling, could make any significant progress with his issues though? Just wondering what you think on that.

iVillage Member
Registered: 05-14-2006
Sun, 08-13-2006 - 12:46am

It really depends on how good a therapist is and how much he wants to change. The question would be how much could he improve and then what does that look like....if it is personality disorder then it is not curable but rather more of a containment strategy....for exmaple, he will learn to avoid situations that he knows will create problems for him, and techniques to not react immediately so he has a chance to try to rationalize the situation.....but I think it will alwasys be hard on anyone that is close to him...maybe better than today but still hard.

My X tried numerous counselors, numerous medications, but nothing has helped....part of the problem is she still thinks there is nothing really wrong with her and if there is anything it is because of what others do to her (vicitim complex...where I am of course the chief offender most of the time). Like any other problem if the person can not admit the problem exists (own it) and truly want to fix it there is pretty much no hope they will overcome it.

I would say the only hope is getting a good therapist and I would focus on finding a way to get that to happen. Interestingly enough one of the ways it happened in my case was we went to see someone for marriage counseling and after 45 minutes of us each describing the issues that we had in the relasiotnship the counselor said...."you don't need marriage counseling....Ann (my X) you have some serious issues and need individual therapy." This got her to go at least initially...maybe you could try something like that?

Best of luck, P.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 08-14-2006 - 3:05am
I don't have much to add from what you've already been told, but I did want to comment on a few things. You said he's appropriate with everyone but you, kind, considerate, etc. Being appropriate, kind, caring and wonderful to everyone and cruel in any way to your partner is a hallmark of abuse. I'm not calling him an abuser, but I'm not saying he's not either. His "never good enough", "always demanding" are typical of abusers as well. You also went on to say that others let his attitude go because "he's always been like that", which indicates it isn't just you he treats this way. The conflicting statements left me a little confused. I've been around a fair number of people with personality disorders, primarily Borderline Personality, Antisocial and Narcissistic Personality Disorders and they can be very offensive, to say the least. Those I've been around have been in therapy (mandated, not chosen) for several years with no change. These issues are not "fixable", and generally, people with these disorders aren't too interested or motivated in changing, their very disorders dictate that they don't care to. Here's a link that provides a basic description of some of these personality disorders:

Personality Disorders

It strikes me too, that you seem quite sure that these are caused by his unresolved issues with his mother. I may be off, but is there some part of your that thinks you can help him through this, help him resolve the issues so he can have a healthy relationship with you? Or does this somehow excuse his behavior, at least in the way that you can recognize where it comes from and therefore understand it? Recognizing the root of the issue does not make it fixable, not unless he's interested in fixing it, and even then there may be an issue of what's able to be fixed; there's such a thing as making as "much progress as is possible", full resolution isn't always achievable. I will tell you that you cannot fix his problem with his mother, you cannot affect it at all. This is his demon, his to wrestle with, his to resolve, and only if he wants to; and it doesn't appear that he does. You can have exactly zero effect on an issue that you had no part in, you can't teach him differently and you can't wrestle the demon for him. I learned that the hard way. My ex was verbally abusive and also had childhood issues that caused him pain. I felt sorry for him, understood his problems, knew they were the reason for his actions and worked like a dog to fix them for him. He, on the other hand, did not appear to be the least bit interested in working on those problems himself. When I had my epiphany, for the life of me I couldn't fathom why I'd ever thought I could affect a problem that I'd been no part of but I did know I was not interested in paying for his problems with the rest of my life.


I have to say also, Simerion, in the first part of your post you suggested we would be wondering if you do act like his mother. In truth, the question never entered my mind. What came into my mind quite prominently and quite quickly was, why are you in love with someone who treats you this way? This is not healthy and not good for you. Being around someone like this is damaging, toxic to you. I would gently urge you to see a therapist to take a look at why you'd continue to put yourself in the midst of such emotionally harmful, abusive treatment. No one should accept being treated this way, this is someone to be avoided, not rehabilitated. And personality disorder or no personality disorder, if he is rehabilitative, you're not the one to do it. A partner is not a therapist, a teacher or a parent. A partner is an equal, and clearly, this is not the case.







~ cl-2nd_life

"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."

~ Author unknown



Edited 8/14/2006 3:19 am ET by cl-2nd_life








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-21-2007
Tue, 01-30-2007 - 4:18pm

Hi,
I've just ended an 18 month relationship with a man 19 years my senior who i'm positively sure had a narcissistic personality disorder. At the start, he was charming, loving, attentive, ideal-I thought I'd found my soulmate but it turned into a nightmare. After a bit he began to show his true colours but never in front of anyone else. People couldn't see what the problerm was with this good looking, charasmatic man who lavished me with attention-but they couldn't see what it was like behind closed doors. I couldn't quite put my finger on it- he had been abused and neglected by his mother-he often spoke about it and I felt really sorry for him-even though I too was abused and neglected throughout my childhood. However, I know from my psychology training that liitle boys need their mums more than they need their dads and more than girls need a good relationship with either parent, they are not as resilient to abuse. I found out about narcissistic personality disorder through my own research, 75% of people who have the disorder are male and it derives from childhood trauma, often where a man is neglected and/or abused by his mother. The consequences of this are that the male creates a false self, one that is good and perfect and then reality becomes disorted and so no matter how obvious the facts are that a person with NPD is behaving badly, they will not be able to see it-they will see the false image they have created for themselves, which prevents them from seeing anything they do as bad. MY ex partner beat me, stole from me, lied to me and bullied and abused me, yet he had an excuse for everything and claimed it all came from a good heart!? Ludicrous I kniw. You can't feel permantly happy with an NPD, they drain you and even though I've only just found the strength to end it for good, I still bear the scars of the whole thing. NPD's care more about themselves with anyone else, you deserve better. You hould take the lady's advice who told you to google NPD, it made my blood run cold when I saw what had been going on but I also got a lot of strength from it once the shock had worn off because it gave me answers to things I'd been struggling with for some time. There are message boards where you can chat to people who have similar experinces, you'll see you're not alone. If you ever wanna chat, just let me know. I know how hard it is so I'd like to help,

Take care

Janice Xx

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Tue, 01-30-2007 - 5:44pm

Some reading material for you to consider:

I Hate You – Don’t Leave Me: Understanding the Borderline Personality, Jerold Kreisman, MD

Narcissism: Denial of the True Self, Alexander Lowen

Why Is It Always About You? Saving Yourself from the Narcissists in Your Life by Sandy Hotchkiss

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html


Carrie