I find this unacceptable....

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
I find this unacceptable....
35
Tue, 10-25-2005 - 10:34am

Last night Dh and I got into an argument over dinner. I was going to cook a meal we had preplanned but the baby woke up to eat and by the time I got done dealing with her, DH was home and it would take way too long to get the meal made on a school night. So I was looking for easier ideas and we only had 1, one I had insisted on him buying. He had planned on us eating leftovers from 3 big meals that we have planned for the week so he didn't buy anymore dinner ideas. I told him that only worked IF we could get the big meals cooked. (He's been cooking since November cause I worked in the evenings and then was pg and couldn't stand raw food. Since the baby has come, it's all the sudden MY job again. At least, that is the impression I'm getting.) Anyway, I also told him that I had said we needed more ideas than the big ones, cause I knew this type of thing could happen. He then comes back with "You just don't want to cook the meals we have."

So I got irritated and left the room (after trying to get him to realize just how RUDE his comment was, I mean HELLO! I was feeding the baby! Who nurses so it's not like anyone else can do it!) Then I figured since I was annoyed and all that I would go run the errand I had wanted to run and had told DH all about. So I come back out in my jacket and grab my purse and DH goes off about how I am over-reacting etc etc. In this time our DD#2 saw I was leaving and wanted to go with me. I told her I was running an errand and kissed her and as I was shutting the door I hear DH say to her, "Don't worry, Mommy is just being a b!tch."

I went and ran my errand and came home and DH comes in to apologize. He said he was sorry for calling me what he did but we are both tired and he's stressed. I told him that it was totally inappropriate to call me that to pour DD and he comes back with, "She's 2, she didn't know what I meant. I said it for your benefit." (He got very defensive about it.) I maintain that it doesn't matter what age she is, it was wrong to call me that period and wrong to aim the comment at ANY of our children. So he goes on about how I just want to have something to hold over his head, so his apology isn't good enough, and how I expect him to be perfect.

Why is he so thick? I told him that being tired doesn't make you do something you wouldn't normally do (tho he claims too it was the heat of the moment...Seeing as how there wasn't any heat coming from me....) I told him that since he obviously found it acceptable, I had to decide what to do about it.

I just CAN'T believe he would stoop this low. I mean, she's 2! And sweet and innocent and precious. And to speak of me like that at all, let alone to one of my children... What does that mean about what he thinks I'm worth?

Jen

P.S. For the record, I dented his car after he called me that. (Has several dents anyway and I plan on popping it back out tonight. Immature I know.) I thought at the time that if he was going to call me that I would give him a reason. He wasn't too happy when he saw it this morning, even though I told him about it last night after I did it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Wed, 10-26-2005 - 8:32pm

could I just chime in with a little observation? Obviously the two of you should have settled the issue of who cooks and when prior to this arguement. But that is now past and I'm sure will be rectified shortly.

But the thing that really stood out to me was the fact that he didn't want to eat the one thing that would be easy for you to prepare. This would be totally unacceptable in our home. With my DH and I, we are simply grateful that our partner takes the time to cook for us. Basically, the meal is "cook's choice". Obviously, neither of us would cook something that we know the other dislikes.

Is the basic element of *appreciation* missing in your marriage? I can't help but think that if he was grateful to have his meal (any meal!) prepared for him, this whole arguement would have been prevented.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 10-27-2005 - 12:54am

Jen, it sounds like you guys have dissolved to the point of reactivity; him waiting for the next wrong move or comment from you so he can attack, you doing the same, previous insults piling up and feeding your angers and the battle. Is that about right?


You said he told you he was expecting you to throw your hands up and call it quits, doesn't that drive home to him the need for help? Or is he satisfied to keep letting things go down the drain until one of you can't stand to live like that anymore?


I'm hearing you say your pastor isn't an option, and from what you said, I have to agree a zillion times over. Can you say "damaging, not helpful?"


A couple of things that might help (probably won't but hey -- you gotta try) I hear you when you say he uses being tired as an excuse. Instead of reminding him that you're tired too -- and probably more tired -- what would happen if when he mentioned being tired you just agreed, "I know what you mean", "Yeah, a little R&R on the beach, no kids, no alarm clocks for oh, about six weeks would be great about now, wouldn't it? Something that only says agreement and solidarity (no hint of "well ME too but you don't hear me complaining about it!") might just back him off a little and help you guys move a bit away from battle and more towards being on the same page. Even if he says something then says he only said it because he's tired, just saying, "me too" (again, non-judging voice) might just go a long way to helping this stop.


As far as him using whatever excuse works at the moment as a reason for behaving badly (calling you names) how about for now, just focusing on the important aspect -- "whatever the reason or age of child, it's not an okay thing to say" and leave it at that. Clearly, from what you've said before he's selfish and immature. Trying to pin him down to admit fault and admit he's looking for excuses isn't likely to get you anywhere, certainly not when he's in full-defense mode anyway.


My understanding on this issue might we way off, because the example you used doesn't go along with my interpretation of it. You said you hear his words but that when you repeat them back to him it's not what he meant. Men and women really do speak a different language. If you haven't, check out " Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus " by Dr. John Gray . In the book is a chapter on just that, the differences in communication; you'd be amazed. There are examples in columns, column 1 is "what men say", Column 2 is "what women hear", and another table with the opposite, what women say and what men hear. I have looked at that chapter with several men, all agree 100% with the men's portion of it, while I agree on the women's side of things. Just like them, what my gender says makes perfect sense and my interpretation of what they're saying is exactly typical for my gender.


All of this, though, is subject to what he's willing to do. If he insists on holding his place and looking for places to blame, lash out, hold onto anger, and be selfish and immature about this, there's not a whole lot you're going to do. I would suggest one other book if you can stand it, "The Dance of Anger: A Woman's Guide to Changing the Patterns of Intimate Relationships", by Harriet Goldhar Lerner. It's really good, really easy to read and it makes good sense.


As for dinners, I'd just have some easy choices available and wouldn't discuss with him what I was going to do dinner-wise. If he doesn't feel like eating what you're fixing, that's okay, he can fix himself something else. No need for anger or upset, it's plain and simple. Like Aisha, at my house, if one of us is good enough to cook the other is sure not going to hassle about what's being cooked. And if it's something you just really don't feel like eating, you're free to fix something else for yourself. But, the real issue here isn't dinner and I know you know that.


You said there aren't any therapists around you, did you mean no counseling options at all or no qualified pastors?







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:

Living Together








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Thu, 10-27-2005 - 5:57pm

>>Like Aisha, at my house, if one of us is good enough to cook the other is sure not going to hassle about what's being cooked. And if it's something you just really don't feel like eating, you're free to fix something else for yourself. But, the real issue here isn't dinner and I know you know that.<<

Yea, I know that too. What I was trying to express (apparently not very well) was that I'm concerned that *one of* the underlying issues in the marriage could be a general lack of appreciation.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
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Registered: 03-25-2003
Thu, 10-27-2005 - 8:11pm

<>

I know he's said that he doesn't think I appreciate him. I know that I've heard several comments from him that tell me he just doesn't get what I do during the day. So yeah, I would have to say that appreciation is lacking. I know this isn't an excuse, but right now I feel like it takes all my energy just to function.

Jen

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Registered: 03-25-2003
Thu, 10-27-2005 - 8:30pm

I have to say 2nd-Life, I was so confused as to why you hadn't responded to the post last night. Of course, once Aisha quoted your post I realized it was here and that meant that SOMEONE had come to the board and read the thread. So, DH says that I did represent the fight pretty fairly. At least I know I'm not giving things too slanted. (I use this board to get ideas and make sure I'm not over-reacting to something that doesn't warrant it.)

<>

I know in the past I've waited for him to mess up, but this time I honestly wasn't. I still did react to being called names instead of just acting. I know for him previous things pile up, I know for me they don't get resolved. When I try to work through them he says I'm just not letting go.

<>

This is the conclusion I've come to. I don't think that he thinks I would ever leave. Even though it's a "great fear" he has, I don't think he thinks it would ever happen. Not truly.

<>

It was a church counselor who was damaging. I think our pastor might help to an extent, but I honestly think we need something way more intensive than a pastor. We need someone with training and experience.

I do know that I need to try not to negate how he feels. There have been times where I've said I knew how he felt but I very probably could have been saying it with the wrong tone of voice. And I haven't said to him that he uses whatever excuse works at the moment, at least not in regards to this incident. This one I have stuck very closely to "whatever the reason or age of child, it's not an okay thing to say". I DO however keep operating under if he can't see something as a problem then HOW is it supposed to ever get better? So I do try WAY to hard to get him to see the problems. My dad keeps telling me I can't shrink him, that it just won't work. I just get so frustrated! I am at the point, and have been for the last year plus, that all I want is for things to get better. So if there is something I can change, I'm going to do it. It frustrates me that he isn't at the same place and that he fights changing at all. He just can't be not perfect. And I'm beginning to think that is a deeper thing to him than anything else. Not that he would believe it.

We did read Men Are from Mars, Women are from Venus when we were going to our counselor in the last place we lived. I agreed with a lot of it and he did too. I try to get him to explain it to me (what he was saying and meant) but he gets frustrated. Maybe I'm getting too hung up on what I heard and not what he meant. I guess I've gotten to the point where I believe he will change what he said at a later date to get out of trouble. Ie, he will say whatever he wants and later when there is fall-out from it, then it changes. I have a hard time believing him when he says it isn't what he really meant.

Today I called DH at work, told him I had had a busy day (2 of the kids are getting ear tubes tomorrow, and I forgot about their pre-op appt today. oops! Spent 2 hours at the hospital going through pre-op during lunch/nap time with 3 kids who hadn't eaten or napped.) and that I wasn't going to cook. He took care of it with no complaints. So that was good. And I do plan on making sure we have easier dinner ideas for the future. But no, the real issue had nothing to do with dinner.

There are no qualified pastors in the area. And our insurance doesn't cover counseling unless someone has been diagnosed with a mental defect. Which is tempting..... ;)

Jen

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Thu, 10-27-2005 - 8:31pm
Nope, you expressed it just fine. :)
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Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 10-27-2005 - 10:57pm

Now Jen, surely you know me better than that by now. If there's a time I don't answer your post I either simply missed it or I'm dead - lol!


Personally, I think having your posts snooped on by others (your partner) is lousy. Yes, I know it's a public forum and we all know when we post that they're open to anybody and everybody, but an amount of respect for privacy should be used. If it's a place someone is coming to vent their problems and frustrations, they should be able to come here feeling free to post what they feel without concern that their partner might read it. To me, it's a violation and an intrusion of privacy. He knows you post here, he came looking to see what you'd said, it's not like he stumbled on it accidently. But, since he's done it, maybe you can use it to your advantage. Maybe you can use the posts here to discuss your problems and make some decisions on dealing with them. If he read my post to you, he knows that I asked if his waiting for you to decide to end it didn't drive home the need for help for you guys. I asked if he was satisfied to keep letting things go down the drain. What's his response?


I think I'm a lot like you, it's important to me in a disagreement that my position is understood. You don't have to agree with me, but I do want to know you understand it. Sometimes that can come across like you're trying to railroad the other guy, like you're trying to make him agree with you. I know it would be hard, but I wonder if it wouldn't work better to bypass that, at least for now? The thing is, you guys seem raw from anger, it doesn't take much to set either of you off anymore. So, if you're disagreeing about anything, the goal isn't to understand (though you may want that) the goal is to find an agreement or compromise. Instead of trying to get him to see your POV, why not just say, "Ok, I don't see it that way. What can we come up with that satisfies us both?" Drop the argument and go straight for compromise/resolution. After you're back on track you can talk more about why you think the way you do, but for now, just work to work together. (read it again, it makes sense ;))


There is no qualified therapist/counselor in your area or no faith based counselor? Would you be willing to see a non-faith based therapist? I think the intensity of your issues warrants it, at least for now. The insurance restrictions are nuts. Have you checked for counselors who charge on a sliding scale or allow payments?


It sounds like giving him the heads up that things weren't going well at home worked out really well. I can see how that would be helpful. Although, I'm thinking if it's an every night thing (and it very well could be) he may get a little tired and resentful.


I do think it's normal to feel like you've got the hardest job, the heaviest load, I think we all think it sometimes. I think it would be good for him to do your job for a few days without assistance, he needs the refresher course. What do you think would happen if instead of being defensive about what you haven't accomplished you share with him that you feel frustrated or less capable because you're not able to get those things done. You just might find out that he shows you some understanding and empathy when he's met with honest sharing instead of defense. No, I'm not saying this is all your fault. But laying blame with him won't help, we're trying to make this better.


All that said and done, how receptive will he be to toning things down and trying? If he hold fast to his attitude, not much will change no matter what you do; but do read the book Jen, you'll find some changes you can bring about that don't require any work at all from you.







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:

Living Together








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Fri, 10-28-2005 - 11:09am

Cl,

I told him I had posted here about the fight. I also told him that no one here had said it was all okay cause DD is 2. (Maybe that was still me trying to be a right fighter... I THOUGHT I was saying it because if he CAN'T see a problem with it, it will happen again, and it's not something I'm willing to tolerate. So I want him to see the problem with it so I don't have to make any hard decisions, especially right now.) It does bother me a little that he came here. I'm not sure if it bothers me that he came here or if it bothers me that he didn't tell me he'd come, but I stumbled across it. And when I asked him what he thought of the post his response was "There really wasn't much there." When I asked him on Tuesday night and again last night what our next step was, where do we go from here, I got "I don't know." Which is his typical response. I can ask him to think about it and he'll still give me an "I don't know." I can ask him to think about how to figure it out and I'll get an "I don't know how to figure it out." I am so tired of being the driving force and doing all the thinking in our marriage relationship. But when I tell him I feel like I am the one doing it all, he gets mad.

Yes, we need to check on a counselor who will do a sliding scale or pay'ts or something. Faith-based isn't essential at all for me, preferrable but more preferrable is someone who isn't a nut job counseling us. I'm sure there is SOMEONE around, since we live fairly close to a large city.

<>

Funny thing is, IMO, if I can't get something done then it wasn't as important as what I was doing. Problem is, he has different priorities and doesn't understand why I don't get done the things that HE thinks I should-- though he has been controlling this better (at least verbally.

I don't know how receptive he'd be to trying. I don't know if he knows. ;)

Jen

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Registered: 03-25-2003
Fri, 10-28-2005 - 2:11pm

Okay, we talked a little after he got back with the kids this morning. Basically he doesn't know if he wants to try or not. He did say he doesn't want to do what I think we need to do, but he doesn't know what to do. He also said (without any prodding) that he tries things for a little bit then gives up, that he has tried over and over but nothing consistant. He's also tired of life and all it's problems and responsibilities (though he isn't tired of living) and he wants to go back to being (or find a way to get there now) to be fresh out of college with none of the crap he has now.

Woohoo, I'm hopeful.

Oh, and when I called to clarify if that meant he thought getting a divorce would free him up to go back to school and get more education (he has a bachelors), he said that isn't really his thought process. (I've said I don't mind if he goes back to school as long as we can pay bills and have health insurance on the kids.)

And darn it, there was something else really important that I was going to add. This is what happens when you only sleep a couple of hours at night. I can't keep my train on the track...

Jen

P.S. At least he felt this way last night but he's not so sure about today.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-04-2003
Fri, 10-28-2005 - 4:31pm

Feeling loved and appreciated goes a long way, will he read a few books with you? If so, here's a list to consider:

Relationship Rescue, Dr Phil
Five Love Languages, Gary Chapman
Makeup, Don’t Breakup by Dr. Bonnie Eaker Weil
Getting the Love You Want, Harville Hendrix


Carrie