I find this unacceptable....

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
I find this unacceptable....
35
Tue, 10-25-2005 - 10:34am

Last night Dh and I got into an argument over dinner. I was going to cook a meal we had preplanned but the baby woke up to eat and by the time I got done dealing with her, DH was home and it would take way too long to get the meal made on a school night. So I was looking for easier ideas and we only had 1, one I had insisted on him buying. He had planned on us eating leftovers from 3 big meals that we have planned for the week so he didn't buy anymore dinner ideas. I told him that only worked IF we could get the big meals cooked. (He's been cooking since November cause I worked in the evenings and then was pg and couldn't stand raw food. Since the baby has come, it's all the sudden MY job again. At least, that is the impression I'm getting.) Anyway, I also told him that I had said we needed more ideas than the big ones, cause I knew this type of thing could happen. He then comes back with "You just don't want to cook the meals we have."

So I got irritated and left the room (after trying to get him to realize just how RUDE his comment was, I mean HELLO! I was feeding the baby! Who nurses so it's not like anyone else can do it!) Then I figured since I was annoyed and all that I would go run the errand I had wanted to run and had told DH all about. So I come back out in my jacket and grab my purse and DH goes off about how I am over-reacting etc etc. In this time our DD#2 saw I was leaving and wanted to go with me. I told her I was running an errand and kissed her and as I was shutting the door I hear DH say to her, "Don't worry, Mommy is just being a b!tch."

I went and ran my errand and came home and DH comes in to apologize. He said he was sorry for calling me what he did but we are both tired and he's stressed. I told him that it was totally inappropriate to call me that to pour DD and he comes back with, "She's 2, she didn't know what I meant. I said it for your benefit." (He got very defensive about it.) I maintain that it doesn't matter what age she is, it was wrong to call me that period and wrong to aim the comment at ANY of our children. So he goes on about how I just want to have something to hold over his head, so his apology isn't good enough, and how I expect him to be perfect.

Why is he so thick? I told him that being tired doesn't make you do something you wouldn't normally do (tho he claims too it was the heat of the moment...Seeing as how there wasn't any heat coming from me....) I told him that since he obviously found it acceptable, I had to decide what to do about it.

I just CAN'T believe he would stoop this low. I mean, she's 2! And sweet and innocent and precious. And to speak of me like that at all, let alone to one of my children... What does that mean about what he thinks I'm worth?

Jen

P.S. For the record, I dented his car after he called me that. (Has several dents anyway and I plan on popping it back out tonight. Immature I know.) I thought at the time that if he was going to call me that I would give him a reason. He wasn't too happy when he saw it this morning, even though I told him about it last night after I did it.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 10-30-2005 - 9:37pm

"Funny thing is, IMO, if I can't get something done then it wasn't as important as what I was doing. Problem is, he has different priorities and doesn't understand why I don't get done the things that HE thinks I should-- though he has been controlling this better (at least verbally." When I said what I said about each of us feeling ours is the harder job, I was specifically thinking of your dinner-cooking incident. He was tired and ticked, you were frustrated because you had to take care of the baby rather than work on the meal; each of you was only seeing his own side, neither was understanding of the other. In that specific case, I will say that the brunt of the understanding and patience was his to bear, babies are unpredictable and he certainly ought to be well aware of that considering this isn't your first child. I don't know what your exact reaction to him was, but it might have gone better if you'd sympathized with him, let him know that you too were frustrated about dinner. Easier said than done in the heat of the moment, but it might have been a "learning experience" for him if you'd been able to just let it go at that and let him realize that the position you guys were in (the planned meal would take too long and the back up meal wasn't something he wanted) was because he insisted on not having more easy back up dinner plans. I know this is lousy, but you know what I really think? I think he's like my ex and no matter what, you were going to be blamed for this.


Jen, you've indicated before that he's pretty selfish and immature in his actions and thinking, the way he's acting here isn't much different. It'a frustrating living with a man who won't make a decision and has no opinion no matter how long you give him to come up with one. I know, because my ex was like that too. He didn't have an opinion, couldn't make a decision, yet complained and despised the fact that I "called all the shots", a role I'd never wanted. What I wanted was a partner, someone to share the decisions with me. But, when there are important (and not so important) decisions that have to be made and he simply will not participate, you have no choice but to step up to the plate and take care of things. I do think seeing a therapist is a really good idea for you, but I have to say this likely who he is and it's not going to change.


I don't want to burst your "hopeful bubble", but I personally don't see much to be hopeful about with a guy who doesn't know whether he wants to try or not. I would want to have some kind of indicator that he cares more about me, the marriage and all of it than to be undecided. And in my opinion, thinking that getting a divorce would free him up to get or do anything, simply says he doesn't want to be a grown up, doesn't want to be responsible, and in divorce he sees shirking his responsibilities to a larger degree, which mean you have the kids 24/7 while he's free to go do what he wants. I don't see anything admirable there.


Sorry for the negativity, I hope you'll tell me I misunderstood and I'm wrong. And I absolutely agree with Itwinflame, feeling loved and appreciated goes a long way.







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:

Living Together








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Mon, 10-31-2005 - 11:31am

Cl,

I know I told you at one point that I'd never need it, but can you find my first intro post to the board? I looked in the advanced search option, but I can't find one I initiated, so I'm a little worried it's buried in someone else's. I'm going to keep looking but you seem to have a really good memory so maybe you know where it is better than I do.

I'm sorry I misunderstood what you meant about the harder job thing. While I did share frustration and apologize when he first got home about the meal, I did qyickly jump over to being hurt and offended and thinking it was more his fault than mine. Dropping it would have been the easiest thing (in retrospect) to do.

<>

~~I SOOO agree and understand this! This is SO the way it is. And I hate it. I hate having to be responsible for so much and having him resent it so much, yet I can beg for input and not get anywhere. Then I get it thrown in my face all the time that I call the shots and I run the show and I never take into account what HE wants and needs. It's tiring.

I don't have a "hopeful bubble" all that much any more. I think DH is partly right in that I just don't love him enough anymore. I know I don't feel anything like I used to about him. I know I have little trust in him. And I wonder if that's not feeding into this awful mess that we are in now. Counseling would be great, but seeing as how ear tubes, electricity, etc are more important, we can't afford it right now. But I am welcome to wait til he has a better job and we are more stable financially and THEN we can go. Course, he's on his 5th job in the last year. So I'm not sure how long that will take, honestly and realistically. Especially since we make the same here that we did before we moved here and cost of living is cheaper. Granted, we've been hit up with medical bills a lot but SOMETHING is always going to come up.

And for the record, he did say that he didn't think divorcing me would mean he could run out and get a degree. BUT that is the impression I got from it.

And I have learned that he thinks we would be much happier if I would take more responsibility for the condition of our house. Granted, it's not the neatest but my house is no where near DIRTY. I have 4 small kids running around (okay, only three of them run) and yet, I don't clean enough. And if I cleaned more we would have a happier marriage. Even though the crux of the issue is him feeling listened to and understood. So when he stated that the kids rooms have been cleaner and our main room has been cleaner, I asked him if that didn't indicate that I heard him AND understood how important it was. And then it ended with him sitting on the couch wondering if it made him sound like a pig because it still wasn't good enough. It's never going to be good enough.

So, what next? See, I don't believe in divorce, though I would get one if I felt it was best for me and my kids. I married him and only him and have/had every intention of being with only him for the rest of my life, and he with me. The thought of him being with anyone else, ever, still makes me sick to my stomach. Sex is a very special and important thing to me and in my mind is supposed to be shared with only one other person ever. And we both waited til we were married. (I know the whole divorce/death thing means a lot of remarriages and I don't have the issue with other people, so don't jump me there.) And I know I can't control him or what would happen, but this is something I am really having a hard time coming to grips with. And I haven't even decided to leave yet, LOL.

I wish you had misunderstood Cl. I wish I was misunderstanding. This isn't what I should be dealing with right now...

Jen

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Mon, 10-31-2005 - 11:47am

Found the post so don't worry about looking it up. :)

Jen

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 10-31-2005 - 12:50pm

I looked it up too -- and I'm sure (as I'm sure you are) that it's the right post, considering the title is "First Time Poster (long)"!


I haven't had the chance to really read your post (skimmed it and saw the request for your first post).








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 10-31-2005 - 12:55pm

It occurs to me that others might gain more insight by reading your previous posts.








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Mon, 10-31-2005 - 1:41pm

<>

it's becoming well programmed with me that I need to "soften" most everything and apologize A LOT to keep the peace. I'm finding it seeps out to other things....

Jen

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 10-31-2005 - 11:10pm

It's hard to have a lot of respect for someone who doesn't hold up his end of the adult responsibilities. It's also hard to respect someone who refuses to be a part of the decision making and it's hard to respect someone who refuses to take part but is resentful of the fact that you do. And IMO, it's hard to hold love for someone you don't respect, so, it's not surprising that you'd feel you love him less than you used to or should.


I know you know that the issue isn't the cleanliness of the house, you may have three, not four running around, but that fourth takes 99.9% of your time and energy. How is he at getting the house all cleaned up when he's home alone with the kids? Is it sparkling then? I do think that when you're a SAHM your job is the house and kids, but when you have kids and certainly newborns, the house takes the back seat. Ugh. The problem is, all this ties together, he has things he's unhappy about but won't do anything to resolve, you have things you're unhappy about and can't get his commitment to help resolve them either. The frustrations and resentments keep building, along with the pressure brought on by kids, responsibilities, resentments, and on and on and on.


I hear you loud and clear about therapy and your money needs. When you most need to go is when the pressure is at it's highest and of course, that would also be when you can least afford to go. I know it's hard, but I also bet you wouldn't make a child wait for a medical issue, you'd get the money somehow or find a doc who would let you charge it. Your marriage isn't any less worthy, is it? Seems like it's nosediving, and the more time that passes without help the worse shape it'll be in. Your relationship is the heart of the family, if it's gone, it affects your family enormously. I hope you'll at least put some calls out to find out about fee scales, charging, etc.


I think a lot of this is a difference in personalities. He is who he is and that's not likely to change much. You'll likely have to decide if you can live with him as he is.


Did I suggest "The Dance of Anger: A Woman's Guide to Changing the Patterns of Intimate Relationships", by Harriet Goldhar Lerner. to you? Really good book, easy to read and to understand. It could be very helpful for you. I know you have zero time or energy for reading. See if your library has it, it'll save you having to buy it.







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:

Living Together








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Tue, 11-01-2005 - 8:57am

<>

~~I'm of the opinion that there is little more important than counseling and getting us straightened out and that we could find the $$$ somewhere. And that we need to at least investigate it before we say that it can't be done.

<>

~~Uh, sure, sparkling. ;) He even said he realizes he could do more BUT he knows the issue for him is ME doing more. He even went so far as to say that I can have things I don't like about him and want him to change but he can't have issues he just doesn't like about me. Yeah, cause being better in our marriage is so equivalent with cleaning... I told him that if I had told him that he had to have a better job, make more money, and work harder and better at it, THEN we would be comparing apples to apples. But I haven't cause money and his job has NOTHING to do with whether or not we have a happy marriage. It means less stress, but not the happiness of our marriage. And being told I just don't care about the condition of our house.... That one was hard. Because I'm the one who organizes and does the major cleaning, and when we lived with my sister last year, I was the one who did the cleaning and picking up after my family. DH will come home and put somethign down and there it stays. I have DS put DH's clothes, bathrobe, and shoes back in our room quite often because he's left them on the floor out front. (We just have one lining/family room.) And he's been too tired and too busy with the kids and new baby to do any cleaning lately. Which I understand, because I've been tired too.

<>

~~See, I grew up in a house where my dad and I did the cooking and cleaning. My mom had other things she did. So I grew up with the man doing a decent amount. I agree that since I'm home I watch the kids and pick stuff up. But I also think that since this is his house too, he can participate and it's not "helping" me out with my "job". I've worked and brought in $$ before because it's what needed done. And I'm talking about on Saturdays and maybe a little help picking up through the week. But he thinks the house is ALL mine. Yet he can't put things up and I'm really tired of cleaning up after him and the kids. I organize and say, okay, if we put it back where it came from it will really help the whole neatness factor. But he doesn't know where it goes, doesn't have time to ask, etc etc.

And I did tell him before we got married that I don't do laundry or clean toilets. And he knew and has always known the issues I have with being "required" to clean to standards that I think are too high. I have major past issues with it and I'm well aware of it. He feeds real well into it. My issue is that when I cleaned growing up, it was NEVER good enough for my mom. No matter how much I did or how good I did. And lo and behold, what am I getting from DH? But I should just get over it...

And yes, I know the cleanliness of the house isn't the issue. If I thought it would save my marriage, I would have a spotless house.

<>

~~He wasn't like this when we met and married. He's thought the woman should clean since about year 2, but all the other issues... if they were there I just didn't realize it til about year 5. But he wasn't this selfish or self-centered. Though his communication issues have always been there. He isn't the man I married....

And I'm working on deciding if I can live with him as he is.

Jen

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 11-01-2005 - 11:10pm

It seems like you have a pretty good awareness of what the situation is Jen, and it sucks that he changed on you.


My dad was a bit different (for his time) than most too, but not quite the same as yours. He always encouraged my mom (a SAHM) to take off for several days at a time, go visit her parents, her sister, grab some girlfriends and have a weekend in the city, or whatever, but go spend some "me" time. And when she went, it was like a party for us, not that things were really that different, I think, it was just the novelty of having dad alone to ourselves; we'd have special dinners, (steak and potatoes - yum!), we'd do special projects with him (make saw horses with wooden attached "horse heads" to pretend to ride in the basement). It was good for everybody. He and my mom used to take turns getting us up for school, one slept in while one made breakfast, braided hair, etc. too. So, I understand having a view of men that's a little different than the "norm".


As for cleaning, my dad did it all when mom was gone, but, since she was a SAHM, on "usual" days his position was "I don't care when she does it, as long as she doesn't expect me to do it". I think his thinking is pretty much accurate. If the housecleaning is your job to do, he has no business critiquing it. If it's yours to do, it's done your way; if he doesn't like it, he's free to do it himself. Granted, this would be different if you did nothing and the house was a total health hazard, but I don't think that's the case. Of course, we're talking about your husband, and since we can't *make* him do anything or *fix* him, whatever we think is pretty much a moot point. Hopefully just agreeing with you makes you feel a little better?







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:

Living Together








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-27-2004
Wed, 11-02-2005 - 4:22am
This doesn't have anything to do with your dilemma, but it's interesting that you have gone from one person for whom your housekeeping is an issue (your mother) to another (your husband). It must be terribly frustrating to feel that neither of these people, both so important in your life, have been so hung up on something that is really a very small part of your lives together.