is it me? or him?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-24-2004
is it me? or him?
11
Fri, 09-22-2006 - 8:38pm

I've written on a couple of other message boards about this, and i've gotten good advice....but at this point I'm so ready to call it quits it isn't even funny.

My husband and I have been married for 2 years, together for 6.
I was well aware of the conditions when we married...as in those little habits and such. We lived together for probably 4 out of the 6 years, so I guess I feel like there was plenty of time to get used to each other.

Lately, both of us have had to make major career decisions...his for the better, and for me it was change. (A paycut change that is.) I was always so used to feeling like I was independent, and never having money be an issue. But in the past few years, I had gone through jobs that were totally well paid, but took away from some major time with everyone and had me losing weight and stressed out. So I decided to go back to doing what I love, for about half the money. Most of the living expenses have fallen on him now, and he doesn't complain, but when a heated arguement surfaces, he seems to like to bring up the fact that he pays for all that stuff-which I think is totally wrong and just downright mean. He knows how I like to feel like i'm contributing, and I don't feel like I am. I'm trying to make a career work and I'm in a hard field to make that happen. I'm stuck between doing what I love, and the hours I work. It sucks and I hate that it sucks. I almost feel like I don't care what he thinks about my hours and he has said many times that he doesnt like my hours. I feel like it's MY job, and MY happiness. Why should I slave at a job I'm misearable at?
Among other things, he has a horrible habit of sleeping on the couch, and he blames his upbringing of falling asleep in front of the t.v on that. Okay...and this habit has been an ongoing issue. I've explained to him that it seems that he only comes to bed for sex, so I started to cut that off too.

On another note, he always seems to be pushing my buttons all the time. I feel like he gives the dogs more attention than he does to me. I don't see him to often because of my work hours, and when I do see him, I feel like I should tell him what's been going on. He somehow feels that this is nagging or complaining. His favorite phrase to use is "Whats the problem now?" I can't tell you how hurtful it is, and I've resorted to just not saying anything. He said that he often feels like i'm not happy, and I don't know why. I have always been an honest person, and I always say what's on my mind. He sometimes gets mad when I tell him what's on my mind and that makes me more confused and not wanting to share what's on my mind with him. He gets mad when I do that, so I just avoid that stuff now. I don't feel like i can talk to him about my problems anymore, and I don't have any close friends. I really don't want to tell my mom or brothers because I'd rather not have them worry. There are times though, that when we do get into heated discussions, I am darn tempted to just pack my bags and stay at a hotel....and it's more often lately.

Very recently, I've just decided to stay quiet and really think through whats going on with me, and I feel like I'm NOT happy. And maybe I don't need to stay with him. We talk about having children and I just don't think I want them, becuase if there are issues that can't be resolved, I don't want them in the middle of it. I don't think I've ever felt actual depression, but I definitely feel like I'm in a funk. Its like I wait at home all day, looking forward to him coming home, and either he's totally late or he acts like he doesn't want to see me. It hurts alot.

I'm not really sure if I'm just venting, but if anyone has any thoughts, I'm looking forward to them.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Sat, 09-23-2006 - 2:24am

Nibbles, I'm afraid that I've got more questions than answers.

First up, you mentioned that you've received some good advice on other boards. Yet, you're posting again here. Of course it's your perogative to post again somewhere else - it's no problem at all. But I can't help wondering why you're posting the question again. Did you not agree with the advice you were given? If not, why not?

I think I'll break your question into many parts because at this stage, I'm unsure as to whether they're related.

Regarding your new job, did your husband agree that you dropping your salary in exchange for a nicer job was a good idea? Did you do it at a financially viable time? And did he agree that he'd be OK with your hours?

You mentioned that your husband has stated many times that he doesn't like your hours. So, what type of hours are you doing?

Yes, doing a job you enjoy is important. But so is doing hours that suit your marriage. At no stage should your job become more important than your marriage. When my husband looks for a new job, he'll tell the interviewer up-front that his family is important and frequent overtime or travel isn't OK with him. And I very much appreciate that he puts us first. Likewise, he quit doing rotating shifts when he was ready to settle down into a permanent relationship.

Him falling asleep on the sofa is something that you'll have to explain better. Are you a night owl and he falls asleep while waiting for you to go to bed? Or is he exhausted and naps off at 8pm? Or do you go to bed alone and he falls asleep on the sofa? And how is withholding sex working for you? What do you aim to achieve by doing that?

You said "when I do see him, I feel like I should tell him what's been going on. He somehow feels that this is nagging or complaining." He's telling you loud and clear that he feels you're complaining too much and that it's too much for him to handle. Which brings me to ask: what are the types of things you're telling him? Are we talking frequent complaints about him/the marriage or your day at work? Or both?

About your job in general...are you fabulously happy in it? Or have you sacrificed pay and time for a job that leaves you unhappy?

Sorry to give questions rather than answers, but it will give us a clearer view of your problems.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-24-2004
Sat, 09-23-2006 - 4:59am

Ok...more specifics.

I work almost a third shift. I'm a baker so I have to be at work usually around 3. It's what I love and my husband knows it. He's actually the one that suggested that I leave my other job. And he said that he supported me 100%, which at the time i guess i believed.
He knew i was miserable, and it began to make it unbearable for us to be around each other because I was so stressed. I would come home and just want to be alone. He also said that we would be okay financially....just not well off. (Not that any of us are to begin with...)

As far me posting on other boards, I always feel like I need a second opinion. There are so many other people out there, and at least one has to relate to the same situation, and I guess that's what I'm looking for.

I think I disagree with you on finding a job that suits marriage. When it comes down to it, we have more and more bills and the bottom line is that I have to work. He may pay the mortgage and some utilities, but my paycheck pays for everything else. I think I've found every shortcut you can take to downsize what we spend. My only problem is that because he makes more and pays the majority, I feel like I have to respect that part of it. You said that "At no stage should your job become more important than your marriage." Well, he should probaly read that. He gets very caught up in his work and I understand he's a perfectionist and anul as I am. For example, when his father had to go to the emergency room, he called me at work in the middle of my shift to ask me to go pick him up, because he had to work. How does that sound to you? If anything, he is the one putting work before me.

Hubby and the couch....I go to sleep at about 830 or 9ish. Somtimes I don't necesarily go to sleep, but I like to be in bed. There's a t.v. in the living room and one in the bedroom. At first he always said it was becuase he didn't want to keep me up with the t.v. But let me tell you, I could sleep through a hurricane. He said that he lets himself fall asleep out there and that he realizes how important it is that he come to bed, or he'll tell me that he's coming to bed soon. He never gets there. That is why I am upset about the falling asleep. He's contradicting himself. It seems the only time he will come to bed is when he wants to be intimate..and it's such a turn off. I almost feel like maybe withholding will let him know how serious I am about that particular issue.

Nagging/complaning: When I bring things up when I finally do see him are (for example) laundry. I simply tell him that if he wants clean clothes, he should bring all the clothes in from the car in the gymbag, or sort out what is dirty and bring it in the house for me to wash. Or asking him to start the dishwasher before work, or stopping at the bank for me on the way home. How is that nagging?

I love my job. I feel like it was what I was born to do, and I think I'm good at it. I sacrificed the pay because I wasn't happy with the other job. I don't think I would take a paycut to be miserable, becuase when it comes down to it, I like money as much as the next guy.

Last night he got so upset because I ate a piece of broccoli...because i started to eat without him-which i told him i was doing because it was getting late and he said "go ahead". there are many times at dinner when I make his plate first, then prepare my own, and by the time I get to eat my own, he's already finished. Hows that sound to you? I'm just terribly frustrated.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 09-25-2006 - 12:54am
Welcome to the board, Nibbles, I'm glad you answered Aisha's questions, they were important to understand.


It sounds like your husband pretty clearly knew what leaving your job and starting this one would entail and that he was supportive of the change (you didn't exactly say that he supported becoming a baker, only that he supported leaving your last job, but since baking is your love, I'm assuming he knew what you were planning to do and what that entailed). I will say that even when agreements and support are given, that doesn't mean it doesn't turn out that the situation isn't so easy to live with, and it sounds like that's the case here.


It sounds like a lot of the problems you have are in communication. You need to talk to him (and you should be conversing with your husband!), but he sees your conversation as complaining. Do you ask him how his day was, what's going on with him, etc? Or do you just jump into telling him about your day? Getting him engaged in talking about his day, what's going on in his life might go a long way in making him feel like you're interested in a conversation (and interested in him) and not just looking for a place to vent. You said you don't want to talk to your family because you don't want them to worry, that indicates what you tell him is all concerns and problems; sharing the good stuff is important too.


Falling asleep on the couch is a habit that can be broken. He could not allow himself to lie down (or whatever situation he generally finds himself asleep in), making the urge to lie down his signal that he needs to go to bed; he could set an alarm for whatever time he generally falls asleep to remind him to go to bed. He could go to bed with you and watch TV there. It's up to him, and the fact that it continues to be a problem indicates that it's a problem for you -- not him; he's not motivated to change it.


In paying more attention to the dog than he does you, I think this is understandable, and I think it's an indicator of the lack of time you spend together. There was a time in my life when my (ex)husband was never home. My dogs were my constant companions and my best friends. On the rare nights he'd choose to be home, he'd complain that I paid more attention to the dogs than I did him, well...yeah....they were there for me, they were my "friends", I had a relationship with them, not him. It may sound awful, but his presence was unusual, they were the constant.


What I haven't heard you say is how you've addressed these issues with your husband. You've told us that you feel you can't talk to him, that he holds your income over your head, that you feel he's against your profession, etc., but what have you said to him? Have you talked to him about your concern for where your relationship is headed, how you're dealing with the issues rather than focusing on the issues themselves? At one point my current husband and I had a discussion about how issues were dealt with rather than any issue in particular, it was vitally important in changing how we dealt with issues and improving our relationship. It sounds like the two of you need to do this, talk about what goes wrong in your conversations, what each of you needs and how it can be achieved. I think it's also important to take a look at the shift differences and make agreements on how you can spend more time together; the more you're physically apart the further apart you get emotionally. You also need to talk about feeling that he doesn't care about seeing you, that he isn't interested in listening to you (unless you're not taking an active role in learning about him), etc. If you haven't told him how you're feeling, it isn't going to be resolved. A good technique is using "I" instead of "you" to describe the situation (e.g., "I feel lonely when you're not around" instead of "You don't care about me because you're always gone.") And most counselors will allow each partner to have individual sessions if it becomes really necessary. Frankly, it usually isn't. Statistically, 80% of the problems in a marriage come from a lack of effective communication (trite, but very true), and once the couple begins to listen to each other, the "problems" usually solve themselves.

Some helpful articles on constructive communication are:

Ten Rules For Fair Fighting
Verbal Fencing With Someone You Love

Dos and Don'ts For Fair Fighting
Conflicts - Points to Remember








~ cl-2nd_life

"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-24-2004
Wed, 09-27-2006 - 10:07pm

I took a look at the articles..helpful, thank you.

Your reply also made me reflect back on past conversations and events.
I don't feel like we actually "fight". Our discussions may get heated, but they don't get out of hand. As far as finding out about his day, I do ask him about his day...when he actually comes home early enough. You see, about a year ago, he left his other job also because it was becoming very stressful-as in 16 hour days. He'd leave at about 7 and wouldn't be home until about 10 or 11. I always understood that he's very driven and almost anul to a point when it comes to work, but I guess I didn't think much of it, because that job I had at the time was about the same situation. I guess we ran on "auto-pilot" that entire time. I thought real hard and I think I spent maybe one night a week together with him...and that was pretty much all I saw him. I know that sounds like I'm exaggerating, but I'm being honest. I guess I didn't notice how little time we spend together because I was so busy.
We both had decided together that we needed to spend more time together...because we didn't even have time to argue. It was very "numb".
So when we took these new jobs, I knew it wouldn't be better right away. And for the first couple months, I knew that he would have to work hard to prove himself at work. I understood and dealt with it. Nowadays it seems like he's working the same hours. It's very frustrating and I'm just plain lonely.
We've had a few talks about what I've been feeling, and he said that he agreed that things should change. I felt good about it. They changed for, like, one day-literally. He came home at 5 and we had a great dinner. Then we went to bed together and enjoyed cuddling and watching t.v. That following night, it just went back to how it usually is. It often happens and I almost feel like I have to resort to extreme measures to express how important things are to me. I've even thought of staying at a friends for a while so that he gets the picture. It seems like all my constant efforts are not take seriously, and it bugs the crap out of me.
For example, let's take tonight. I called him twice today. Once just to say hi, and the second to let him know that i had a meeting at work, so I can't run an errandfor him until later in the day. He has not called, emailed, texted or attempted to communicate at all. It is now 9 p.m. and I should be asleep. There are often times when he says that he went to workout and he didn't think I'd mind. When I tell him I really looked forward to a little time, he says he sorry and walks away and goes to the couch or to the computer. This is a reoccuring event.
He talks about kids sometimes, and I'm just not sure I want them now because of all this. I just see him missing all the things that I think are important, like going to that first ultra sound appointment. And then I get to daydreaming that i go into labor at work and he says he'll be there after he finishes up at work.

I just feel like i'm always trying to make myself available and it stinks because it's a waste of time. My best girlfriend swears that he's cheating on me, only because of the working late and she even suggested staying at her place to show him i'm serious. I've thought of getting a second job at night to make some exra money-because i have nothing else to do with my time at night but wait for him to get home. I always tell him that it's the little things that matter more to me than a car, or a house, or even a bouquet of flowers. He thinks that buying things shows love. He says "I just want you to have nice things." I've explained to him that I am a woman of meager means. I grew up less than average, so I'm used to the bare essentials. I feel privileged to even have this computer to type on. But he spends money on all these things, DVD players, Toaster over, etc..I told him that I only want him to buy what I ask for. He says that I deserve better, and I always tell him that I only deserve what I ask for-his time.

I'm not sure what to do, and I'm not sure if crying about it anymore is doing me any good. I'm going in for some surgery tomorrow, and he knows. Now-its outpatient surgery, but it hurt very much when he didn't ask if I wanted him to pick me up, or if I wanted him to go with me. As a matter of fact, he really didn't seem interested in what the whole thing was about...he didn't even ask me. I'm already nervous as it is, but now I'm starting to feel depressed.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 09-28-2006 - 12:39am
Nibbles, I'm so sorry to hear you're having surgery. Even "just" outpatient surgery feels like a very big deal to the person who's having it.


What I'm hearing you say is that the two of you are seriously disconnected. Have you considered seeing a couples counselor? I would strongly urge that you do, and as soon as possible.


Things getting better for only a day is pretty darned short for a "better" period, but not staying better isn't uncommon. Have you talked to him about the fast relapse and getting back on track to being together? The message you hear when he doesn't bother to come home is that he's not interested in seeing you, he'd rather go do something else. Being the one sitting home waiting for someone who's not coming feels pretty awful, hurt, helpless and frustrated. Been there. One thing I'm wondering, is he overwhelmed at work or having some extra pressure or stress? If he's not responding to you the way he should (assuming it's not the way he'd usually respond), that may be the reason. Specifically, I'm thinking of your surgery and his lack of care or concern.


I can see where your girlfriend is coming from with her concerns, if the situation is what I'm hearing it to be; he doesn't come home, shows a lack of interest in you or the relationship and avoids coming to bed even though he knows you don't like it. Although, if sleeping on the couch is something he's always done (is it?) that wouldn't be an indicator. I'm not saying you should suspect him and I'm not at all saying you should leave for a few days to "let him know you're serious". Leaving like that would be a threat and threats are never a good thing to do -- unless you're ready to accept the consequences if he bites on your threat -- by ending your marriage. If you're ready and willing to leave because it's that bad, then do so, but if you're not, then the move would only cause more problems, and that, you don't need.


I do have one thing to say about you, him and gifts. If he's a spender and you're saying "I only deserve your time", "I'm used to bare essentials", you're inciting him to give you what he thinks you deserve, he's showing you that he thinks you deserve good things, not just bare essentials, and you do deserve more than his time. Drop "bare essentials" and "deserve" from your vocabulary and replace it with, "The best gift you could give me is time with you, I know you think purchased presents is what's important, but what I honestly want is time with you. If you want to give me both - time and gifts, that would be great, but what I really want is time with you, okay?"


Above everything else, I really think you guys need to start seeing a marriage counselor asap, and if he won't go, go on your own.








~ cl-2nd_life

"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 05-14-2006
Fri, 09-29-2006 - 1:32am

Here is my perception as I read your thread.....everything from your title right through your several posts sounds to me like you have a serious addiction to being right....."right fighting"

He might be disconnected and uninterested cause he is having an affair or cause he is a jerk, or cause he is bored, or clueless, or childish, or self centered, or....he also might be acting like this cause his perception (and that matters a whole lot more here than who is RIGHT) is that he has a nagging wife, that is constantly unhappy with him, always thinks she is right, and he has just plain given up trying to please her cause he can't do anything right.

Stopping having sex with him is just about the fastest way to making sure that he never leaves the couch. Furthermore explaining to him that this is how he being punished for not complying with your wishes (that he come to bed more often) is treating him like a child.....partners negotiate, they don't play the punishment game. This behavior will likely kill his libido anyways, as least as far as with you is concerned. Sooner or later he will run into someone that takes an interet in him and is nice to him and doesn't require all this emotional overhead (it is exhausting being with a right fighter) and then you can further your case for "it is him" by adding cheating to your argument. You will feel you were "right" in the end, but you will be "right" AND divorced.

Maybe this is it....I certainly think it is one interpretation from your posts.....then again maybe you ARE RIGHT and all his perceptions are wrong and he is just plain a self centered jerk. So in that case, why stay married to a jerk?

If you think any of his perceptions might have some validity I would suggest you read "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" by Dr Laura Schlesinger.

Good luck. P.

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-01-2006
Sat, 09-30-2006 - 12:32pm

I'm not sure that I am the best person to talk to you about this as we have many of the same types of things going on in our relationships and I haven't decided myself what is best to do. Part of me says lets find an apartment together and be roomates! What I think I see going on are two people who are hurt and frustrated about certain situations and two people who have two completely opposing ways of dealing with that frustration. I know it sounds cliche, but going to a couples counselor probably wouldn't be a bad idea. You never really mentioned how you two feel about each other anymore. Is the love still there? He talks about having children. Is this from a love and a deep desire to have children with the woman he loves? Or is this an attempt to fix what seems to be a growing rift between the two of you (even if it is that, I see that more as a desparate attempt to keep the person they love very much)? I would definitely hold off on children until you get your underlying issues resolved. I know in my relationship I found out that when I am hurt I get defensive and when he gets hurt he jokes. When we do those things we just end up hurting the other person more. The hardest part is to recognize our actions and get our points across in constructive and not destructive ways. It is not easy and unfortunately I think some people can never adapt. Though not from a lack of love or trying.

I wish I could have been more help. I suppose I just wanted you to know that I understand how you feel.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-24-2004
Sat, 09-30-2006 - 2:55pm

Yes...it does help to know that others are having the same thoughts and feelings. I figured that maybe I'm just a difficult person. I am strong at work, strong with friends, but when it comes to him, I am as weak as tissue paper.
I mentioned going to a counselor a few times, and the only thing it did was bother him. He didn't get upset, but he didn't have a happy look on his face.
I've also tried over the past couple of weeks to just simply try talking to him. It doesn't really work. It's like he can't stand to actually talk to me. He came home the other day and I greeted him and asked him how his day was, and the conversation kind of developed from there. After about 10 minutes, he got real irritated and didn't seem like he wanted to he around me.
And I've been thinking about the children thing alot too. I'm not sure, but after I read what you wrote, I almost felt like maybe I'm the one that is trying to make a quick fix, and I think maybe I should wait so it won't blow up in my face. He jokes so much about it, and I guess I'm "yearning" children, so I take it like he does want to start trying. (Is yearn the right word?)

I think that you are on point about how we are dealing with things. I know that when I see he's not happy, it automatically makes me unhappy. Today I came home from work and he just had this looked real "pouty". He does that. So I ask him what's wrong and he says nothing. He looked depressed or sad, and so automatically I began to get upset. I can't help it. I made lunch and he didn't want to eat with me. He hid in the bedroom. Then I came to the bed and he left.
The thought just occured to me that maybe he's depressed? I had a friend that experienced a long period of depression and it ended up affecting every part of his life-including his marriage....or am I just reaching for an answer?
And I do agree....maybe we should be roommates... ;-)

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Sun, 10-01-2006 - 11:50pm

It doesn't sound like you are communicating any of your important needs to him, or if you do it's after the fact when it's too late for him to do anything about it.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 10-30-2005
Mon, 10-02-2006 - 1:21am
My husband and I have gone through some tough things in marriage, but the only thing that saved us was going to marriage counseling. Both of us needed to hear objective advice, and most importantly, be heard. You might get great advice from some ladies on this board, but the bottom line is that he isn't. Having my husband talk to a counselor made a lot of changes. He wasn't emotionally involved with them and certainly didn't have any resentments. He was able to listen and consider what they were saying before he just brushed it off like he would have done with me at that point. It was like we both thought we were right, and while I might have been right about a few things, he certainly wasn't believing what I had to say about it.. cuz he was right, right? I really didn't care who had to say these things to get him to listen and believe them, all that mattered was that he acknowledged his issues and began to work on them. The same goes for me. Then we were able to work together, realize how much we loved each other, and find out ways to make our marriage better. I don't think you should be able to get a divorce until you exhaust all possibilities. It sounds like he isn't willing to be honest or acknowledge what is going on in the relationship, but as with all relationships, nothing is just one person's fault. Maybe you could look up some counselors in the phone book and give it a try. I know my husband was skeptical at first- to the point where I didn't think he was going to go, but I had made up my mind I would be going with or without him, and he ended up coming anyway. To this day, he will tell me that us going to marriage counseling was the best thing we ever could have done, and I know its true. I know we wouldn't be together today if we hadn't.

Emily


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.emily.

 

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