looking for any chance

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-20-2006
looking for any chance
11
Sun, 02-05-2006 - 10:10pm


In trying to decide whether or not DH and I have any chance for survival, (and I do believe when you get to that point, you have absolutely nothing to lose by trying), I ordered a book, entitled, "Marriage Fitness" by Mort Fortel. Has anybody read it?

I'm just on chapter 1, so I probably don't need to analyze yet, but the premise is that a marriage CANNOT be based on compatability. Because, as the marriage takes its course from the intial stage of being "in love" to the everyday life, people will find faults where there were none before, therefore become incompatible. Instead, he says, marriage must be based on a "core" connection that transcends and perseveres through the differences.

I'm not yet convinced, but I will continue reading. I just don't see how that can always be accurate.

Just as an example, early last week, I asked DH "What is it going to take for you to be happy in this relationship." His answer? "I need you to help me get back what I lost." Well, I was thinking he meant his self-confidence, his "groove," etc., which I could totally understand. But NO, he explained that he needs me to help him get back (interpret-needs me to pay for) his retirement place and a boat like he used to have (he's only 45, and has a 15-year old and 12-year-old, so it's not like retirement is at the end of the year or anything. I mean, he is in a deep funk about this.

Mind you, he voluntarily sold his retirement place, and paid off the loan that he got to pay his ex-wife his part of their joint debts when they divorced.

I couldn't BELIEVE that's what he thinks will make him happy!! Again today, he said he's going to get a boat and I need to help him figure out how to pay for it. I don't think so! I have one in college, a 16-year-old and an 8-year-old, and basically had to start my retirement fund from zero after my divorce, and want to take the kids on summer vacations, help them with their cars, etc.

So, I'll be interested to see how to "connect at the core" so that incompatabilities like this can be overcome.

More reading to come . . .

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 02-05-2006 - 11:49pm

Welcome back Smalltown40 ~ I won’t be able to get to your post for a while, but I wanted to provide the links to your previous post so that others who might be able to get to your post before I do can get a better feel for your situation and history and as a result be better able to offer thoughts and suggestions that fit your actual situation and can be more helpful to you.


Is this really worth it?

I’ll be back soon!







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 02-06-2006 - 12:45am

I'm thinking it's a matter of what you consider "compatibility". It sounds like what you're saying is that it's not the little things that matter, but the core issues -- values, morals, character. For instance, the fact that my husband likes country music and I like most anything but country doesn't matter, it's having compatible core values, morals, etc. that does. We're both tolerant of each other's music, and we're also both understanding that the other isn't fond of it and are respectful of not shoving it down each other's throats by playing it selectively around each other. However, if my husband played his music non-stop, refusing to ease up even knowing I didn't like it, and/or if he refused to give my music play time, that would be a core value issue, it would speak to his belief in his entitlement, equality, fairness, tolerance, etc.


If I've got what he's saying right, I'd say he's pretty much right, but I'd also say if you really look, many issues that you don't really consider core issues do indeed speak to them. For instance, your husband's thoughts on happiness and you helping him rebuild his bank account and repurchase a boat (I have to tell you is so distasteful and incredible to me that he'd have the gall to tell you that, let alone think it) certainly speaks to his core values on happiness and apparently, the fact that money and objects are what really matter.


I could be wrong, but that's my take on it. I'll be interested to hear more as you read the book. I hope you'll update us!








~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-20-2006
Mon, 02-06-2006 - 5:08am

Well said. Core values and compatability aren't necessarily the same things.

I read some more before going to bed, and got to the part entitled "Put Love First," meaning you have to make your spouse your priority. I agree with that.

However, the author said that while at work, whether you are with your boss, with a client or in a meeting, you should interrupt what you're doing and answer the phone if your spouse calls.

I don't agree with that. I think it's not only unprofessional, but downright rude! When I'm at work, I'm on the company's dime, not my own, and short of an emergency, I say spouse should leave a message, and I'll call back AFTER business is taken care of. I don't think that means I'm putting my job first; I'm just doing my job.

So far, although the book has some good basic theories, I don't agree with some of the practices.

Have a great Monday!

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Mon, 02-06-2006 - 1:34pm

I think the example that the book gave about taking calls at work would be assuming that your spouse didn't call you to chitchat several times a day. I call DH to talk to him during the day (I don't get out enough.... *sigh*) and I would NOT expect him to interrupt something or someone else so I can talk. If it's important enough for that I will tell him, but not just to chitchat.

I have to say, I am floored by your H's response. He sold the boat and the retirement house to take care of his obligations and then he can't be happy in a relationship with you til he has those back? Well then, he won't be happy in his life until he gets those back. That has little to nothing to due with you and your relationship.

My thought was, don't the two of you, together, have common goals? Ie, we both want to go on vacation with the kids this summer... we want to take a cruise/something together? I hear him saying "I want this..." and you saying "I want this...." but you two aren't working together.

I agree that for a relationship to be truly lasting then there has to be something that transcends "infatuations" etc. If you base a relationship on something that changes, then when it changes it won't work anymore. And that is a crappy thought.

Jen

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-20-2006
Mon, 02-06-2006 - 3:51pm


Hey, imasillynut,

You are correct--we don't have any common goals to speak of. He likes to spend a lot of time by himself, and I think our problems began shortly after we were married when he started spending 95% of his time in our bedroom with the door shut, wihout much interaction with the rest of the family. (He does, by the way, have a much smaller travel trailer on a lake lot--just not as big as nice as the mobile home at the lake he had before, and that's where he goes to "escape." I do go also on occastion, but he feels like it's too small to bring the kids with me, and it's hard to get away by myself)

I have talked to him about going on vacations togehter, etc., and we did go on a "mini" vacation last summer with 2 of my kids and 1 of his. He ended up getting reallly mad at my DD while we were at the amusement park. He kept voicing his opinion about the kids there who had tattoos and boys with earrings, and DD also voiced her opinion that "you can't judge someone just because of the way they look" (I thought her that!) He said kids don't have an opinion and should keep their mouths shut.

So, our small attempt at a joint vacation wasn't very good, although I'd still be willing to try again. DH says he realizes he has been harsh in some of his opinions.

We are definitely going to have to find some common ground soon.

Today, he said he is of no value to anyone, and a cancer to all families and has no purpose for being here. And although those statements are probably the most extreme ones that he has made to this point, I have always had to assure and re-assure and re-emphasize and convince him that I love him, that he is mportant to me, etc., and sometimes I just grow tired of always playing the supporter. I mean, he says he wants me to need him, but how can I when he's always so needy?

I really went off on another subjec altogether--sorry!

Gotta run--I've been at home today with my 8yo. DD should be home soon, and I need to into the office for a while.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Mon, 02-06-2006 - 5:32pm

<>

That is just deplorable. I am so glad that I was raised to think differently. What is really sad is that so many people seem to think this way. And yet we wonder why kids don't mature as quickly as they used to...

I think your H has some serious esteem issues. Would he be willing to go to counseling on his own?

Jen

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Mon, 02-06-2006 - 5:45pm

ST40


I hope I didn't miss this tidbit of information in another post somewhere but your H sounds depressed.

Peace,

Di

***If you cannot define yourself, your circumstances will.***

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-20-2006
Mon, 02-06-2006 - 8:08pm

Yes, he has some big esteem issues. I think they primarily stem from his mother letting his grandparents raise him, while she re-married and raised two more children with her 2nd husband, but never asked DH to come live with them. That would give anybody some serious issues.

But no, I don't think he would go to counseling on his own. We went together once, and immediately, the counselor indicated that most of the problems stemmed from DH's childhood, suggested a book for DH to read. We bought the book, and he's read maybe the first 5 pages. That was about a year and a half ago.

Thanks for your feedback!

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-20-2006
Mon, 02-06-2006 - 8:16pm


Hi,

Yes, DH is definitely depressed. He has been on an anti-depressant since before we met. He tried going off of it several times, and not only was he depressed, but cried a lot and was more angry too. So, he's been on it steadily for quite a while.

I just answered the question as to counseling in my reply to another post.

I really tried for a LONG time to understand and empathize with his point of view regarding the trailer/boat issue; however, 3 years is enough--time to move on! I just cannot function much longer as the never-ending encourager. I want an equal partner. We have to deal with what we have TODAY and try to make the future the best it can be. I think dwelling negatively on what we have lost is counter-productive. I am sure my logical, rather unemotional approach to things drives DH crazy too! :)

I reason that in 3 years, his child support will be cut in half, and 3 years after that, will go away entirely. This is still prior to his retirement. That will mean $800 more per month in his pocket, which will be enough and then some to replace his retirement dream home.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 02-07-2006 - 1:14am

Smalltown, I'm going to be a bit gloomy here. It really sounds like your husband has a major depression problem, if he's on meds, they aren't working for him at like they should be. Seeing his doctor and letting him know what his current symptoms are would be a good thing, IMO.


Medication masks the problem but does nothing to deal with the problem itself. Until he deals with the real issue which was identified quickly by the counselor you two saw (which says your husband's issues are easily evident -- as in great need to be dealt with, he's the walking wounded, you know?) He wasn't willing to work to resolve his issues in individual counseling and he wasn't even willing to read through a book your counselor thought could help him. In short, he's not willing to seek help for his problem, he's not willing to do anything to resolve it. As long as this is the case (and he very well may never want to work on it) the problem will continue to exist. You can feel bad for him, want him to be happy, feel whole, etc., but it doesn't matter what you want or what you're willing to do to make it so, you are helpless to do anything because it is his issue and he is the only one who can do anything to resolve it.


My ex husband was depressed (also alcoholic -- perhaps self medicating for his emotional pain?) and also had a lousy childhood. For many, many years I tried to make things good for him, felt bad for the pain he felt as a result of his childhood, tried to heal his wounds by providing him a healthy, happy relationship (ha! try that with a depressed alcoholic). Ultimately I realized that for years I'd been trying to work on an issue that I had absolutely no part in. It wasn't about me, didn't involve me; I hadn't created it, didn't play a part in it and couldn't do a thing to make it better. The only one who could wrestle the demons in his head was him, and frankly, I was the only person trying to fight them.


Smalltown, I think much of the problem could be depression, but if he's not willing to do anything about it, nothing's going to change.







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"

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