Looking for insight. sorry so long.

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-03-2004
Looking for insight. sorry so long.
11
Tue, 03-22-2005 - 10:10pm

I am really in need of some advice. I posted last week on the trouble
communicating board, which helped, but I think it brought up deeper issues
in my marriage.

My dh and I have been married for 4.5 years and together for 5.5 years.
We met online and quickly fell in love and a year later we married.

Like most couples we have hardships, but we have always been able to
get through them together. Due to financial mistakes and him being
laid off after 9-11, we had to move in with his parents and have now been here
for 3 years. I don't get along with his family and neither does he, but
we didn't find that out until shortly after we moved in. However, we are
scheduled to move out of state in 3 months to be closer to my family.

We have a wonderful friendship. We have a lot of the same interests (food,
music, style). However, I am starting to feel like all we have is a friendship.
I love him dearly, but I don't feel any feelings toward him in a lovers way.

For the past 4 years our sex life has been lacking. At first I thought
it was because of an illness I have. Then I thought it was because he is over
weight. Now I don't even know. All I know is that I want nothing to do with
him sexually. I don't even like to kiss him. Also, I do have a libido, but when
we do have sex, I quickly loose interest. Also, he has made comments about me calling
it sex instead of making love as well as made comments that I kiss him like a friend and not
a lover.

After posting on the trouble communicating board, I really tried to
listen to my heart, but I feel so confused. I realized however, that
I feel like our foundation was based on lies. Not because we purposely
lied to each other, but because we didn't know who we were ourselves because
of how young we were when we met (me-19, him-21). He has admitted to
me many times before that when we first met he would tell me things that
he thought I wanted to hear (his interests, dreams, ambitions, etc). It is only
the last year that I have really found out who he is (as well as me).

Now that I feel like I am finally finding out who he is and who I am, I feel
like we aren't as compatible as I had once thought, or on the same page. I am finding
that what I find to be the most important issues in my life (spirituality,
communication) aren't of major importance in his life. He tells me that those
are important to him, but his actions, or lack thereof, are showing me otherwise.
Spirituality has been a huge issue for me in our marriage ever since we met.
He swears up and down that he is on the same page as I, but yet he makes little
to no effort in communicating about it or practicing it. I feel like he is still
telling me what he thinks I want to hear. I guess I sit there and think,
"well if it is so important to him, than why is it so hard for him to follow through
with it?". My answer to that, his heart isn't truly in it. This same concept
applies to other things too like his supposed wanting to quit smoking and
loose weight. All talk and no action.

I am not mad at him for not putting the same importance on the same things
as me, but I feel like I am settling for that. I feel like I am compromising
my needs for someone who wasn't honest with me from day one.

I really need a mate who also values spirituality and communication as much as I do.
I feel like this is why I am so unattracted to my husband. He isn't meeting two major
needs of mine. Which in return I am not meeting a need of his, sex. I feel
like I am failing him.

This isn't a bad relationship. Nowhere near toxic. That is what makes this so
confusing. I am so tired of trying to get him to see what I need. I feel like
he will never "get it" because it isn't the same needs he has. We seem to approach marriage
completely differnt. The only part we have down is the friendship, but let's
face it, friendship alone doesn't make a marriage last. There has to be some
attraction and sex life. I do love him, but I fear it is in the way two best friends love
each other. People say love alone is all you need, but I don't agree with that. Both parties
needs their needs met too.

So I feel like him and I are at crossroads (yes I have already told him everything I am feeling).
Do we just wait to see what the move brings and hope that it brings us back together?
Do we separate? Do we end it? Do I wait more in hopes he learns to value what I value?
I don't know. He wants me to tell him that we will make it through this, but I can't lie, I don't know
if we will. I can't imagine him not in my life, but I can't imagine either of us staying
in a marriage where there is only friendship, it's not fair to either of us and we are too young to settle.

Thank you for reading my long post. I hope some insight will be found through other people's experiences.

Abigail

Pages

iVillage Member
Registered: 02-19-2004
Tue, 03-22-2005 - 10:33pm

Anyone who says love is all you need hasn't been in a marriage where the love fades and there's nothing else to hold you together. Feelings come and go, which is why you also need trust, communication, mutual respect and admiration, shared goals and values, and so on. Sexual desire for each other is important too (although it can come and go too, it should not go and stay gone).

I think you know what the answer for you is. You may not like the answer, and the answer certainly isn't easy, but if you don't want to or just can't make it work with your husband, then you are just wasting your time if you stay IMHO. If you stay, you should go to counseling and try and work through the issues you have. But my guess is that it's not a feeling that it could be worked out, you are struggling with the guilt of moving on without him and that is different. Think about it this way, if you stay you are denying him the chance to find someone who is a better match for him (he will have to be his true self to find that person, but that is his responsibility to learn how). I don't believe guilt is enough to make a marriage work.

Photobucket

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-03-2004
Tue, 03-22-2005 - 11:15pm
I wanted to add, this is my second serious relationship and this is his first. So in essence, I am his first love. I asked him last night if he felt there was a divde in our relationship and he said no. I can't help but think that because this is his first serious relationship, that he doesn't really know what is normal or abnormal (his parents marriage isn't a very good model relationship, they pretty much co-exist).
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 03-23-2005 - 12:36am

Hi Abigail ~ A couple of things really stand out in your posts (I've read your addition too, as well as your post and the responses on the Trouble Communicating board: Frustrated and lonely ).

There are several things that I see that could easily lead to big problems between you, but I think, like Firstamendment, that you already know what the real issue is. You met at 19/21 and were married at 20/22. That's at a point in your life when neither of you are even remotely done growing intellectually, maturing, finished growing into the people you each will become. What happens is you're right for each other when you meet, but add several years and you'll find that most of the time those who are right for you in your early 20's are not at all right for you any more. The reason is the maturing, the growing and the intellectual shape you take on as you grow into the mature adult you'll become. In your early 20's it's impossible to determine what path you'll want to go down, what will be right for you down the road. Dating exclusively, living together and/or being married doesn't affect the likelihood of the two of you staying on the same path, you're still almost bound to veer off in different directions, want different things and in the course of that, you'll realize that this guy who was perfect for you four years ago isn't at all right for who you've grown to be. You say this is his first serious experience and your second, not trying to offend you, but really, a "serious" experience at 19 or younger isn't an adult experience. In reality, neither of you have any adult experiences to base yours on. What I mean is, he may have seemed right for you, but your belief was based on zero adult experiences. To make the growing/changing and how it affects relationships more understandable, let me put it this way. From the time you were born up until now -- and continuing for a few years to come -- you've been growing emotionally/intellectually, maturing. The guy you thought was perfect for you at 15 wasn't even close to who was right for you at 18, because you'd changed, grown, matured. While you're even more grown and mature at 20 and 22, you're still growing and changing and still not able to predict who's right for you when you've changed -- you can't possibly know how you'll change! At 15 you wouldn't have been able to predict who'd be right at 18, at 20 you couldn't predict who would be right at 28. Does that make sense? I thank that's really what's at the heart of this, and I think you do too. He's a great guy, a good friend, but just not who you really want as a partner in life, a love interest. It makes perfect sense. It's hard, and I'm sure it feels really bad, but I do think that's what's at the base of this. If that's true, staying won't make you any happier, won't make him any more right for you. Living a life like that will suck the life out of you. You'll never really know happiness, or feel the kind of closeness and partnership you should feel with the man in your life. That's not living, that's existing, and you deserve to live. So does he. If what we we're suggesting is true for you, even if he thinks you're perfect for him, you're not. He deserves the woman in his life to be head over heels in love with him, feel that he is perfect for her. He deserve that kind of love and companionship, just as you do. As long as you stay together, you're keeping both of you from being able to have the kind of love in your lives you deserve. No one deserves second best. And I agree with Firstamendment, anyone who says love is all you need is not living in the adult world. It's a great, romantic saying, but it isn't reality and doesn't hold up. It's a sentiment that's generally said by young people, who haven't really been out in the adult world or haven't been out there long enough to know that it's not so. Don't be guilted into living in a dissatisfying relationship because you think it should be enough for you. Love is important, but it isn't all you need and sometimes even if you love someone very much, letting them go is the most loving thing you can do.


The other things that were red flags:
  • You mentioned that you've been having problems for the last couple of years and that you separated last year. Did the two of you ever see a couples counselor? Are you seeing one now? Going through problems as serious as you're having without some qualified, professional help doesn't give you the ability to learn both your roles in the problem, learn better ways to deal with the issues you have and deal with them in a way that best assures they're being dealt with properly and completely, so that they will be fully resolved.

  • You mentioned that you've been living with his parents for the last three years. And worse than that, you don't get along with his parents. If that won't kill any relationship, I don't know what will. I understand you're moving in three months, not sure moving closer to either of your parents is a good thing, but getting out of that house is extremely urgent. I understand that for at least part of the time you were there he was unemployed, so I know money was tight, but did you get out of the house very, very frequently? Spend a lot of time alone, in your room or out? Getting out of their presence, and likely out of their "space" would be extremely important.

  • You mention him being with friends, but nothing about yourself. What about you? Do you get out with friends and out on your own often? Do you work or are you home with his parents? It's important that you have a life of your own that doesn't involve him or his family, and if you've been depending on him to be your entire entertainment (having no friends of your own) that's claustrophobic, dysfunctional and unfair to him. Too much pressure for him, and really, it's not his job to be your entertainment and your only friend. If you don't have a life of your own, you need to get one. This is true of all times in your life no matter what kind of relationship you're in -- it could be the most perfect man in the world and you'd still need a life of your own and time on your own. You have to be a whole person in order to have a whole relationship.

  • You said his parents aren't a great example as they simply co-exist. It's important that you recognize that these people have been his role models. What he's witnessed in their relationship is what he believes is a "correct" marriage. Whether he thinks it right and good or not, it's what he's learned to do. He spent his entire childhood watching them, learning how to do what they do and learning how to be in that kind of relationship. It's the only way he knows how to be. If he acts like them and doesn't seem to understand that you aren't happy this way that's a clear indicator that he is very comfortable and happy in his role, and that's how he's going to be -- period. Parents teach their children how to live the same lives they live, and that's just what he's learned. "Children learn what they live" is a common saying and I think you may now realize just how true it is. Just as children from abusive homes swear they'll never live like that, then in horror find themselves in the exact same kind of relationship (the abuse cycle) we all learn how to live as married adults by how we grew up and what we watched our parents do. Your husband is repeating the cycle he was taught to repeat.



    I've thrown a ton at you, I know. As I said before, I really think your ages is the issue, and I think you think that too. If you feel that's not so, or that you need to give it a chance, then insist on seeing a counselor or therapist who is licensed in couples counseling. Having a counselor who is licensed in the field is vitally important so be sure to ask and don't agree to counseling with anyone who doesn't have the license, period. Give your marriage a little more time if you feel you should, but don't be afraid to be honest about it if it's just not right for you. There doesn't have to be a huge reason for you to end it, just not being right for you is very much enough. You deserve it to be exactly right, you deserve to be happy. Read Unmatched ambitions from our Information and Resources section.

    I hope you find whatever it is that brings you true happiness and fulfillment, Abigail, you deserve it. Keep us informed, okay?
  • ~ cl-2nd_life


    "You can't control the length of your life,
    but you can control the width and depth."

    ~ Author unknown




    Edited 3/23/2005 1:47 am ET ET by cl-2nd_life








    "Ignoring the facts
    does not change the facts"
    iVillage Member
    Registered: 10-13-2004
    Wed, 03-23-2005 - 4:57am

    Abigail, I can't really add much to the great advice that you've already received.

    However, I will say this: I was married when I was 20, and by the age of 24 we'd grown in very different directions. And the sex was non-existant because I no longer desired him in that way. To cut a long story short - after much soul searcing I left him. And it was the best thing I've ever done. It was the hardest decision that I've ever had to make, because my marriage wasn't a hell-hole of screaming and yelling....however, it had dissolved to being simply a friendship, and I was just fading away. Since then, I've worked out what is really important to me in a partner - and found the man of my dreams.

    On a side note: because I'm happier and less stressed out of that marriage, I've also managed to leave some chronic health problems behind.

    Don't hold yourself back if you really think that the two of you aren't compatible on those really important base issues. It's OK to have completely seperate hobbies etc...but you must be with someone who thinks like you when it comes to ideals.

    Oh, and for the record, I had a chuckle at your DH worrying about you saying "sex" instead of "Making Love" There's nothing wrong with saying "sex" - you are simply being straight to the point - rather than being a gushy romantic. In my humble opinion, the expression "making love" gets seriously over-used. I think that if anything, your DH is guilty of thinking too much on this one LOL

    Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-25-2003
    Wed, 03-23-2005 - 10:12am

    Okay, I have a little different take, though I am not saying that anyone is necessarily wrong.

    I met my DH when I was 19 and he was 21, almost 22. I was his 2nd serious relationship, and he was the 3rd guy I had ever dated, neither of the previous ones were anywhere near serious. We married a year later. We have problems (like everyone almost, LOL!). But we are still just as right for each other now as we were then. I'm of the opinion that you give this relationship everything you've got and everything you can before you give up on it. So if you haven't gotten counseling, then that comes BEFORE deciding it's just not worth it and leaving.

    My $.02.

    Jen

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-26-2003
    Wed, 03-23-2005 - 11:40am

    But....your post in February indicated you're having the same problems in your marriage now that you've been having all along, and if I remember correctly, those problems are differences in how each of you deals with things (personality differences) and expectations due to differences in how you were raised.








    "Ignoring the facts
    does not change the facts"
    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-25-2003
    Mon, 03-28-2005 - 9:37am

    All I'm saying is that marrying early doesn't mean you cease to be right for each other over time. And that just giving up before trying all options isn't the way to go. Yes, I've had some really hard times, and I still do. Not much has changed in that regard, except I'm more willing to keep trying. I go through moods where I'm over it, and moods where I can work on it. Nothing abnormal. I also don't think that divorcing would mean we weren't right for each other. It would mean that one or both of us decided to be selfish instead of looking out for the other's well-being and got focused on that instead. Which can happen. And everyone goes through periods like that. It's staying in them that's dangerous. (And this isn't meaning for marriages where infidelity or abuse or something "major" is occurring.)

    Yes, we weren't aware of some issues when we got married. Find me someone who is aware of all the issues before marriage. In my mind marriage requires commitment, no matter what age. There CAN be a time when divorce is the only option left but as I've said before, and been disagreed with, I think divorce should be the ONLY option left when it's used. Try other avenues first and use divorce as a last resort. I do not like the mentality that she is "wasting time" and should just move on. Especially since there isn't animosity. She's got time to try, if she feels she can.

    I just think marriage needs to be more permanent than what it seems to be now. IMO.

    Jen

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-26-2003
    Mon, 03-28-2005 - 10:34pm

    Statistics prove that the younger you marry the less the chance of the marriage being a lasting one, and I doubt anyone would argue that it's other than the changes that occur with maturation along with the choices an appropriately immature young adults make. Youthful marriages ending in divorce certainly isn't the case 100% of the time, I work with a guy who married his high school sweetheart and they're going strong, they're very happy and very well suited for each other. That being said, they're still the exception rather than the rule. In my office he makes one out of 70-something people who are still with the person they were with when they were 20. No one thinks they don't know exactly what they're doing or that they're not doing the right thing when they marry young, at that age we all think we know exactly what we want in life and what's best for us. However, the differences in your thinking, your beliefs and what you want in life is vastly different at 20 than it is at 30. Who among us hasn't looked back and been absolutely amazed at what we thought we knew at 20 vs. what we really knew and how much we've changed since then. Of course no one knows anyone completely until they're married, but waiting until you've been through the maturation process gives you a much clearer view of who that person is as well as gives you the ability to make a life decision based on who you are in maturity and has you making that decision as a mature adult. We're all thrown curves and every marriage faces challenges. But those challenges shouldn't be about personality, morals, values; those are unchangeable things and very important to a healthy relationship, like Firstamendment said.


    I do understand that you feel differently about marriage, but frankly, if you're not happy and are living with someone who you think of as a friend, you're existing, not living and to my way of thinking, it's a waste of your life. There are no second chances in the life you live, I want mine to be happy, fulfilled with plenty of experiences. I think if the person you married is not who makes you happy, abuse or no abuse, then you're much better off to accept that you made a mistake and correct it, staying bound to that mistake doesn't make for a fulfilled life, not for me anyway. I personally don't think staying "for the kids" is a good reason either. Giving them the working example of a poorly matched struggle or less than a happy, loving supportive partnership (not saying either of those is your situation) sets them up for replicating the struggle and the existence rather than real happiness. Absolutely if you realize the marriage isn't right before children you shouldn't bring children into it, but if they're already there, having them live in a situation that's less than what you'd want for their adult lives doesn't afford them the example to achieve such a life. They learn what they live. Cycles of abuse aren't the only cycles that are replicated. Lifestyles of all kinds move on from one generation to the next.


    In the OP's case, it's not a case of her being bored with the situation and wanting to bail out at the first sign of trouble. There have been significant problems for a year. She's not happy and hasn't been happy for a year. That's pretty significant. She also had a pretty good idea that it was much deeper than him paying attention to her, and in truth, from reading all she had to say, I have to say I think she's exactly right. Bottom line (to me) is that good relationships aren't hard. Sure, good relationships have problems too, but you face them, work them out and the relationship moves forward without them. Good relationships are easy, so why would you want to struggle to keep what's not a good relationship alive, when if it was good there would be no struggle?


    I hope you didn't feel I was wasn't picking on your marriage, that wasn't my intent and I'm sorry if that's how my response came across.

    ~ cl-2nd_life


    "You can't control the length of your life,
    but you can control the width and depth."

    ~ Author unknown








    "Ignoring the facts
    does not change the facts"
    iVillage Member
    Registered: 08-03-2004
    Mon, 03-28-2005 - 10:51pm

    I have been reading everyone's responses and pondering them for the last week. I truly appreciate all the advice and insight. Most of what was said, I already knew but was in denial.

    I have talked a lot with my husband over the past week and he is fully aware of how I am feeling, although I think to some extent he is still in denial in the depth of the issues. We haven't made any official plans of staying together or getting divorced. We both agreed we are not at the point of making any rash decisions. I told him I have little hope for us, but am not ready to give up completely. We are still planning on moving to Washington together in a few months, but both of us realize that alone will not save our marriage. Both of us agreed that whether we stay together or not, we both want to leave Michigan-therefore there will hopefully be no resentment after the move if we end it.

    I think the hardest part of all of this that we both are having a problem wit is neither of us can imagine not being in each others lives as friends. There is no animosity (at this point anyway)between us. We have a wonderful friendship-we both know that, but we don't know what reality holds for us being able to stay friends if we end it. We both know that even if we were able to successfully maintain our friendship, when other people come into our lives we realize they may not agree with us being friends and we would have to choose.

    Again, thanks to everyone for your responses and keeping objective views.

    iVillage Member
    Registered: 03-26-2003
    Tue, 03-29-2005 - 11:03am

    There is no reason you can't remain friends, Abigail.








    "Ignoring the facts
    does not change the facts"

    Pages