Lying: When is enough, enough?

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-13-2005
Lying: When is enough, enough?
13
Tue, 01-03-2006 - 5:15pm

I have a dilemma.

DH and I have been married for 15 years. We have one son, four years old. Our marriage went through many rough spots, from addiction to lack of passion and emotional detachment.

After all these things, finally my DH had two affairs. After the second one my son and I moved out and to make matters worse, I slept with DH's best friend. He ditched the women and the best friend and we reconciled after counseling. While I was still reeling from his indiscretions, I gave it my all to make it work out for the sake of our son. I did and do still love DH, it's just different now that I know how we were supposed to be for the last 15 years but missed out on.

Several months later, I learned that he had been having lunches with a single gal he met a long time ago (while we were married). Before I confronted him, I spoke with her and learned the usual truth--she did not know he was married. It happened that one day he was supposed to meet her for lunch she decided she wasn't interested in him "that way" and cancelled. After she cancelled, he called me for lunch.

Anyways, I finally called him on it and he said he would move out. He hasn't mentioned it since (he has been travelling on business for a month) and he continues to talk about our future (moving, vacations) as if nothing happened. He does say he is having a hard time dealing with my sleeping with his friend. I am at a point now where I understand he can have a hard time but it is time to move on. I managed to get over him sleeping with two strangers and am still working on him maintaining a secret "friend" relationship with another one.

I made an appointment with our marriage counselor but wanted to pose this question to you.

At what point during marriage does lying and deceit grant you permission to divorce? Especially if you have a child? Am I morally obligated to remain married and keep on trying for the sake of my son?

Besides not being able to trust my husband, otherwise we have a picture perfect marriage and DH is a wonderful father. So I am not sure when to draw the line. Sounds like a no-brainer but after 15-years, it requires more thought.

Thanks in advance,
Robin, mom to Jesse

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-28-2005
Wed, 01-04-2006 - 6:46pm

I realize timeframes are important in this particular situation.

But let's get down to the nut cutting issue....is what he's doing "acceptable" in your book. Is it "right"?

If not - what are you doing with him?

If so - why are you complaining about it?

Because you can't control what he does or wants to do, has the option to do, or thinks is "right and his right" to do.

he's doing it because he wants, he believes it's right and his right...it doesnt matter what you think or feel, except to you.

So act on your thoughts - not your feelings.

Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 01-05-2006 - 2:53am

No, no, you have nothing to apologize for, Robin. This is a big deal to you, and it's all swimming around in your head. Plus, you know the facts and it's easy to forget that others don't. As for change of years, ack, it always throws me for a while!


What I'd thought was that this was an old affair or "friendship" that had taken place long ago in the past (before counseling, rebuilding, etc.) but that you'd just become aware of it. What I understand now (and if I'm wrong you'll correct me, yes?) is that he had affairs in 2003 and 2004, ask you to try with him again in late 2004, and while you two were working in counseling, rebuilding, etc. he was having these little get-togethers with this woman, right up to two months ago. Until I hear different from you I'm going with the belief that he was courting this relationship and carrying on with it while you were working on your marriage. Not that being livid upon finding out about an old previous affair wouldn't' be understandable, but the situation being current is quite different, and I'm sure you agree!


Basically what he did was take all the work, the enormous effort for you to work to trust in him again, all the belief you had, everything, and thrown it in the toilet. Actually, he did worse than that; by doing this while under the guise of rebuilding he made all the efforts a sham, showing total disrespect for you and your relationship in the process, IMO.


I disagree with your statement "I permitted him to behave inappropriately in the past and that is why he continues." The man knows right from wrong. He operates based on his own sense of values, morals and what he is entitled to do. He continues because he wants to and because he can justify it to himself. If you need proof it's right there in front of you. After he knew you saw this as unacceptable, even leaving the relationship he continued. In counseling, where he certainly heard that affairs and indiscretion were wrong, where complete honesty and openness was necessary to rebuild trust, where he learned that secrets could not be, he listened, presumably participated and seemed to agree, work on problems and move forward with you, all the while carrying on a secret relationship based on his being "single and attracted to her". IMO, the man has proven to you that he cheats and lies without conscience. Based on his past history, coupled with these recent events, he's pretty much sealed the fact that he will indeed continue to cheat and lie. How can you trust him? After spending months in counseling, working towards rebuilding your relationship, learning all the while he was continuing to cheat (whether he had anything physical with her or not), how can you ever believe that he's being faithful, is really working on your marriage or have any belief or respect in him again?


Yes, you had an affair too, but you recognize that it's wrong, stopped and worked to rebuild. You don't seem to see this as an acceptable thing to do, don't seem to consider returning to that life. That's the difference between someone who's made a mistake and someone who has a stilted value/moral and feels they're entitled to infidelity.


You say, "Besides not being able to trust my husband, otherwise we have a picture perfect marriage and DH is a wonderful father. So I am not sure when to draw the line. Sounds like a no-brainer but after 15-years, it requires more thought." and "Now I just wonder, am I doomed to one of those marriages where the couple stays together "anyways" or "for the kids" even though they aren't equals with regards to respect and love and intimacy? I've done the "through thick and thin" thing and now that my blinders have been removed, denial has been squashed and backbone has been installed, is it simply too late?" IMO, in a relationship, if you don't have trust, you don't have anything. That's not to say trust can't be damaged and repaired but how can you trust when he's proven to continue the same infidelity while he's going through the motions of rebuilding? How could you ever trust him again -- and why in the world would you? In your situation, to give him your trust is to do so at the cost of your safety. And, to me, a relationship without trust is pretty dead, lacking in other important basics such as respect, and real partnership. To me, staying because it's easier than leaving is at the cost of your self respect, you give up the spark that is you in settling for such an existence. Staying for the kids isn't doing them any favors. They're learning from your relationship and will learn to have the same surface relationship you have. I doubt you want to pass your relationship on to your kids, but that's what staying will do.


I know it's not easy. My ex-husband was an alcoholic. Over the years we went to counseling, he went to rehab, back to counseling, etc. Even though he never drank at home and was a functioning alcoholic (worked, appeared stable, etc.) who might go a month or more without any bad episodes at home, it continued to be a chronic problem that obviously had an effect on our entire marriage. Not the same issue as yours, but many similarities just the same. My husband didn't want to stop drinking, he wanted me to stay. All the work he did to *stop* and *work on us* was not with the desire to change anything, it was with the desire to have me stay. I left him after 17 years of marriage. I know about years of unhappiness and wrestling with yourself. Seven years later found him exactly as he was when I left. Still drinking. No surprise, he never did want to stop. But what struck me was that while my life had changed dramatically -- and for the better his was exactly the same as it had been. Based on what you've said fast the same would be true for you. Checking in years later will find him still cheating on whomever he's with. It's who he is, what he wants. It won't end.

But, it's your life, your choice what you live with, what you want for your life. The saying goes, "when you settle for less than you want, you end up settling for less than you'd expected." Settling won't enrich your life, won't give you anything to build on, won't help you grow, it'll give you an existence that's less than your life should be, IMO. As an old woman looking back over your life will you be happy and satisfied with life as it's been lived if it continues as you expect it to with your husband? Will you feel you've lived or existed? Will it cause you to smile or feel regret?

I'm currently reading a book called, “Too Good to Leave Too Bad to Stay” by Mira Kirshenbaum I haven't read enough of it to have a good feel for it yet, certainly not enough to recommend, but it might be something you could benefit from. I know this is a tough place for you to be in.








~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 01-05-2006 - 3:27am

A couple of articles from our Information and Resources section that might provide food for thought:
The Truth About the Power of Love

Trust








~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"

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