Marriage on 'stones' due to inlaws
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| Wed, 10-04-2006 - 8:00pm |
Hi,
This is quite a long one, and I'd like to state a few basic facts before I start:
* We have been married 7 years, now with a 14 month old - joy of our lives. Ironically, he was the start to our troubles.
* We moved countries (from India to UK) in the last months of my pregnancy, and had to deal with new baby, new jobs, new country, no friends etc. in a short span of time.
* I am from India, and typically, marriage is based on traditional roles there. However, I come from a 'forward' family, both parents worked (I am the only child), and my parents believe in women's rights. However, Hubby comes from very traditional set up.
* I've had a rocky relationship with my MIL right from the start, and to tell you the absolute truth, she is nasty to a lot of people - her own brothers sisters and other relatives acknowledge this fact.
We 'had' a wonderful marriage for six years inspite of many minor problems (not least inlaws). My serious relationship troubles began when we invited my inlaws during the last days of my pregnancy. My husband invited them without my consent (though he knows about the rocky relationship bit), and I thought it would be insulting to them if I said 'no' when they had already been invited. I also wanted my Mom's presence at that time (for emotional reasons - I always dreamt I would have my Mom around when I had my first child - she has a major heart problem - it was her first grandchild (inlaws have 4 grandchildren) - and I had told my husband about this several times), so I invited my parents too (my parents stayed in a separate house). MIL hated having them around, made nasty comments about me and my parents to my husband, and complained about me to him all the time. In a short time, my husband turned against me and thought I was being unfair to them, and this caused a lot of fights between us. After a month of enduring this (after the baby was born), in a fit of anger, I told *him* that they should just leave if they thought I was being horrible. They heard that from the next room, and booked their tix for 10 days later. My parents moved in with us shortly after they left, and my husband made no pretense that they were welcome, and was pretty cold to me as well. I got increasingly depressed and became more and more dependent on my parents for company and comfort. I made them stay for 4 months simply bcoz I knew that after they left I wouldnt have anyone to talk to, and I wasnt sure what to expect from my husband. After my parents left, we didnt resolve anything much, and I just coped knowing we would visit India shortly.
We visited India and spent 15 days with inlaws. MIL and FIL did several things with the baby that displeased me - tried to feed a big piece of dry fruit cake to a 5 month old, tried to give him tea etc. Most times my husband agreed with me that they were not doing the right thing, yet he was not able to stop them. Sometimes, I did say to them quite strongly that they should not do xyz bcoz I was scared he would choke or something. MIL started complaining and again both of us had fights. MIL & FIL also organised a large party for the baby and didnt invite my parents or anyone else from my family and I was quite hurt about this, but didnt say anything.
I stayed back in India to help my Mom do a few check ups and it turned out that she had to have major surgery, so I ended up staying longer than I intended. I was frankly happy to have a reason to stay back bcoz I was very lonely in the UK, and my husband was not exactly friendly.
My inlaws never called me during all that time I was with my parents, but kept complaining to my husband that I didnt call them. The 'distance makes the heart grow fonder' was beginning to work on hubby, and he began to 'request' me to call them. I called them a couple of times for a couple of minutes. It was soon time for the baby's first birthday, and I didnt invite my inlaws though I had a grand celebration with my parents and husband. He wanted to invite them but I said 'no' bcoz I knew they would behave badly. Immediately after the birthday, we visited my inlaws and they didnt ask me a single word about my mother (that hurt me very much), and the whole complaints thing started again - this time about how I was not taking enough care of the baby!!! Fortunately it was a very short visit, and I think my husband missed us too much to start a fight !!! My inlaws and I havent talked since then.
I came back to the UK with my husband immediately after baby's first birthday (my Mom got a clean chit from the doctor), and though things are better between us, they are not close to normal. He has a very stressful job, and does quite a lot of the housework. BUT HE DOESNT LISTEN TO ME !!! He asks me 'how was your day', but is not interested when I start to talk, even when I tell him about funny things the baby did ! He loves the baby, and plays with him, but we only communicate basic stuff. I feel like he is a glorified maid plus cash machine. I am coping better with loneliness bcoz I go to toddler groups and have made some friends, but I am quite distressed with his behaviour.
And now, suddenly, he wants to invite his parents to the UK ! I said I dont want them around till I find a job bcoz I dont want to see them 24/7. But he thinks his parents should be invited now bcoz they are getting bored, and this is again creating a strain between us. In theory, he would be happier if we invited them simply bcoz it looks like we have made up with them, but practically, we would all be very unhappy if they came over now. Is he too dumb to understand this after all the drama the whole of last year ? And I am getting tired of having his parents 'between us' all the time now. This is too intimate for me to talk with my new friends here, and I just dont know what to do.
I know there are several unanswered questions here, but I didnt want to go too much into detail. Thanks in advance for all your input.

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Hi Cl-2nd life, Jen, Ingie and Orangecuse,
Thanx very much for your inputs. As I was about to type this message onto the board, DH and I had YET another discussion about inviting my ILs over. I will however first update you with a little of my relationship history and culture and clarifications to a few questions. As people might have understood (thanks to Ingie's post), in India, its normal for parents to stay with the couple for long periods of time esp. during unusual circumstances - having a baby, illness, visiting them while in foreign countries etc. And another cultural aspect is that 'boys' are expected to take care of their parents in their old age, and hopefully convince their wives to let his parents live with them.
My relationship with hubby took a definitive turn for the better once I finished my thesis and landed a job. I think my having a good job, and having this thesis done gave me a lot of confidence and a feeling of control over my life, which did us both a lot of good. My inlaws did visit us a couple of times every year, but it had only short term impact on our relationship. DH was extremely supportive of me and my behaviour, and always thought that his Mom had a tendency to be nasty - he said so even now. In his own words, 'we were echoes of each other' for a couple of years !! But now things have changed so drastically. When my inlaws visited me last year, something changed his feelings for me and he says if his parents have ill-feelings towards me, its my fault. Btw, when I said I 'threatened' in my previous post, I didnt mean it literally. I just said that 'if its so important for you to have your parents around, you can have them over, but I wont be around'. I dont know whether it sounds like a threat, but thats what I said.
In the most recent conversation he said :
1. Its extremely important for him to have his parents around for the festival (therez an Indian festival lurking around the corner called Diwali, in likeness to Christmas in importance)
2. He is unable to concentrate, losing his confidence, mental acumen at work because this thing is eating him up.
3. He is unable to call them over because I am unwilling to adjust to his poor old parents who just want to spend some time with their son and grandson.
I said :
1. His parents and I have lots of nasty baggage between us right now, and we can invite them over once I find proper childcare and a job so that we are not at each other's skin 24/7.
2. His parents are extremely important to him, but 'we' are not, because given all the nastiness that has happened in the past year, its important for us to build our relationship first and he is trying to shove his parents down my throat at the wrong time.
Ingie, am really glad that an 'Indian' person has come onto the board. Though its true that Indian culture is vastly different, its also true that we as women feel the same whatever culture we're from. And I think feeling 'woman' sometimes supersedes being 'Indian'. I do discuss my inlaws partially with friends, but feel very uncomfortable discussing somethings because I am truly ashamed of their behaviour, of my relationship with them, and my own feelings about them. My friends, being understandably 'mine', are more forward in their thinking, and seem to have nicer inlaws and better relationships with them than me. I know only one girl who is in a situation almost similar to mine (inlaws between her and hubby), and even she says, 'my MIL is not at all a bad person - its just that we dont get along' !!!! I hestitate to discuss my inlaws with my Indian friends or even my family simply because I dont want them to feel bad for me for having got such a bad deal !!!
I think my husband does realise that I have nothing to lose in this relationship, and that I would probably get the first ticket home if he calls my inlaws over without my consent, which is why he brought up the topic again. I also told him I am going to go to a marriage counsellor, and he says the same thing again, 'I dont need it, you do'. I frankly think he needs it too because he is miserable and angry, but he doesnt seem to listen. And I agree with Ingie that he is probably not taking me seriously. I will talk to the counsellor about it and let me see if I can get him/her to call him to participate.
I at least hope my childcare and job work out soon so that I can have my inlaws in and out of the way, and I can get on with my life !!!
Thanks for everything. I am glad there are some people who are willing to listen to me. It is sometimes such a lonely life despite the number of people around you.
Love.
a.
I don't agree that your problems are with his parents, if he stood up for you and refused to let them treat you that way, it wouldn't be a problem. Your problem is with your husband. Hmmm, maybe that's a bit strong. Obviously, his mother is a problem, and according to what you've said, she's a problem for pretty much everyone she's around, but, the problem wouldn't affect the relationship you have with your husband if he didn't allow it. I agree that inviting your inlaws over now, while you and your husband are in such a state would be disastrous to your marriage, it would likely push it over the edge. I don't know how this would tie in with Indian culture, but I personally would think insisting on having resolved the issues in our marriage and having a strong alliance with each other before allowing another visit would be appropriate.
Aymous, it seems that you're saying your husband made a terrific turn from being close and having a strong, secure relationship to being angry, blaming and disbelieving of you when his parents came on the scene. Is that right? And he continues to treat you completely negatively? It's as though he's been turned against you, but I don't understand how that's possible. Any thoughts? Your husband didn't flinch when you told him you felt seeing a counselor was important to your marriage?
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Hi Cl-2nd life,
Thanx for your message again. I agree with what you say about culture... I probably wouldnt have this problem if my DH was not as pig headed about tradition. He didnt flinch a bit when I said I would go to a marriage counsellor. He actually said,'therez nothing wrong with me, I wont go, but you should' !!
Meanwhile, he has been trying too hard to patch things up with his parents. I said I hadnt spoken to my inlaws in the last couple of months ? Well today morning, just as I woke up (we had the discussion last night about whether to invite his parents now), he said I should talk to his parents because its some festival, immediately dialled the numbers, and spoke to his Dad and said that I wanted to speak to them !! Naturally, I was quite groggy, and managed to say a couple of things before handing it back to him. But its quite unfair I think, to catch me unawares. I have been so irritated since morning... I should have probably been more alert. And the funny part is that he is looking and behaving so much happier... and the seesaw on my side has hit the bottom again !! I know am sounding childishly surly, but then what he did was not mature either !!! Oh God.. I cant wait to get to the counsellor, just feel like giving a good scream :). Will let you know whats up..
Hi amyous
I still think that you might consider relenting here and letting the parents come, while doing counselling with your husband. I know it seems unfair and a lot to ask of you, and it is. you could negotiate with him that you'll let the parents come if he agrees to come to counselling with you.
I just think that putting your foot down about this is going to make things worse. There are obviously things going on in your husband's head that we dont know about... and just intuitively I dont think that stopping his parents from coming will make him change.
Why did your husband change all of a sudden? Do you think that there could have been something from your side that made him change? Any lapses? Maybe your behaviour coudl have hurted him ? I dont know.. but I think it's strange that someone who supported you all along would suddenly change colors without provocation. You might want to have a heart to heart with him and ask why this change?
Lastly I'm curious..how bad is the MIL? Is she so bad that you can't even consider putting up with her for a little bit? How did you react to her bad behavior? It seems to me that your husband is deeply hurt on his parents' behalf whether it is justified or not.. and I can sort of understand. If my husband misbehaved or if my parents ended up feeling insulted by him in some way, I would be devastated. It would be hard for me to forgive him, because of the way i was raised.. you just dont DO certain things no matter WHAT. you DONT insult someone old enough to be your mother, no matter what she says.
Even if my parents werent always the best I would expect my husband to be compassionate and respectful towards them when they visited me... Within reason of course.. my parents are angels, so i dont think this would happen, but if it did, trust me, i would be rather cold to my husband. especially if he asked them to leave.. that would NOT fly with me. No matter what they did.
Is it possible that something happened between your MIL and you, where you probably could have been more diplomatic and your husband, though normally fair to you, just can't get over your lapse? That might explain why he is blaming you. I am not saying that he's right to blame you.. bcoz your MIL sounds like a nasty piece of work.. I am just saying that people have all sorts of sentiments, and sometimes we dont realize them. Maybe you just really hurt a weak sentimental spot. Sometimes we have to be diplomatic even if it hurts us.. you could also look at your own reaction patterns and see if you coudl change anything there.
You should talk to him and find out what's bothering him so much. Dont start off blaming him, but be more open to your own lapse and see what happens... if you indeed hurt him so much maybe you need to apologize. At the same time your husband needs to apologize for letting his mother treat you badly.. and promise that he wont tolerate certain aspects of her behaviour in the future. You can;t change her completely before she visits again, but your husband can let her know what will and wont be tolerated under your roof.. that will curb her somewhat. at the same time you could promise to maintain basic decency and politeness when they visit. that way you could at least get along.. you wont be best friends but have to be battling and threaten to throw them out.
Let me know what happens..
Your husband isn't "pigheaded" he was raised traditional, and you knew that when you married him. Behaving badly because he does won't get you anywhere but deeper problems in your marriage. When your husband dialed his parents and shoved the phone at you unexpectedly, did you talk to him about it later? I mean in a rational, calm discussion. Does he understand that it was unfair? Does he realize it didn't help anything but caused more anger and chaos in your relationship?
I do think it's important for you to see an Indian therapist; someone who fully understands the culture and can understand the clash and the pull your husband feels will be able to really give you the help you need.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
I agree with what you're saying about the pattern of behavior and I also agree with what you're saying about giving an ultimatum. My concern was in giving ultimatums that weren't meant and weren't planned to be followed through on. A threat might get her husband moving, but if it doesn't, she'd better be prepared to follow through with what she said she'd do. Suddenly finding yourself in a position to have to leave when you had no real intention of doing that isn't a good thing, neither is going through the motion of leaving, expecting that he'll follow you and ask you to come back. That becomes a game that everybody loses in.
As for you, I'm sorry your counselor did you no good, finding the right match doesn't always happen with the first counselor you see. In your situation, it sounds like you've recognized and dealt with your problem sufficiently on your own - good for you! What matters is that you've dealt with it to your satisfaction and you know what signs to look for so you can control it before it controls you in the future, not how you got there. I'm sure if you weren't happy and satisfied, you'd seek help elsewhere. I hope your happiness and success continue for a very long time.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Hi, Cl-2nd life and Ingie,
Thanks for your responses again... I do think anyone - most importantly me - would feel it strange that he changed overnight. I am going into more detail here as to how it happened... Though my MIL had been making lots of nasty comments about me from the beginning of our marriage, I never once insulted her and DH really appreciated that. This time, what happened was that MIL kept up with telling DH a pack of lies, which she probably felt was true... things like 'she keeps throwing down the dresses I got for the baby', 'she doesnt address me properly while talking to me','she doesnt like me to hold the child', 'she grabs the baby from my arms'... and what not... I think she dislikes me so much that she imagined all of that to be true. Initially DH defended me.... so she had a problem with that too.. 'and you of course love your wife so much that you cant even see that she does these things to us'.. and obviously I wasnt reacting positively to all of this... it showed in my behaviour - though I never said a thing.. I didnt put pressure on DH because I thought we were together on this.... I just kept quiet and eventually, he started seeing things their way... it didnt help that I wasnt being very warm and friendly with them either - how can you when you know that somebody hates you so much that they are trying to poison your DH against you. And he started picking on the small things too - (though never as bad as his Mom) - things like - I talked to one of my Indian friends about MIL on the phone (she doesnt understand English but she probably guessed what I was saying), she heard this and immediately told him, 'shez talking disrespectfully about me to her friends' - and DH was surprised I would talk to anyone about his Mom !!!! The poison was slow, but it was very effective. Within a couple of months, DH and I were ready to tear each other's hair. Thats when I said she should just stop complaining or leave. I told DH that, I didnt say that to her. But our apartment being a small one, they heard that, and I dont think DH has forgiven me after that. It didnt help that I looked visibly relieved and happy after they left (I am human!!!) and that my parents were there with me. I could have asked my parents to go, but I didnt because I was absolutely lonely in the UK - not a SINGLE friend - I was in some shock because DH had turned against me, and I didnt want to be stranded alone with a small baby for company. I would have probably gone into full blown depression. My parents realised that I was under considerable distress and agreed to extend their stay - I had to beg them to stay bcoz they could see that DH was being cold in general.
I did try to make up with him several times, and the first thing he would say was, 'we have to make up with my parents'.... and so our 'make up' never really happened.. and soon after, the India visit complicated the situation more. This time, he could see that his parents were being foolish, and each time I spoke up to say, 'you cant give a 4-month old tea', or 'we dont give dry fruit cake to a 4-month old', they would feel insulted. I know that DH is very hurt bcoz he thinks his parents are hurt by my behaviour. But I think they crossed a limit, and I definitely didnt feel at all friendly because I thought they were the cause for the rift between me and DH. And the story continued as per my first post..
Now I am unable to accept that DH thinks we can be happier if I make up with his parents... thats what really puzzles me... I actually asked him that the other night when we were discussing inviting his parents over - 'do you think it will solve all our troubles if we invite your parents over' - and you know what he says ? 'It will definitely fulfil one of my needs - to be a good son - and that will make me feel better' - and I said, 'what about being a good husband and understanding your wife's needs'.... and he said I was being very vindictive... so the argument continued...
And the answer to one of your questions, Ingie, I really CANNOT BEAR to see my MIL/FIL 24hrs a day now. I dont have a job now, and I have told DH that when I find a job, I would consider inviting them because then I wouldnt have to see them 24/7. He said, 'what if you dont find a job till 6 months'.. then of course they'd have to wait for 6 months was my reply, and he wasnt happy with that... so it goes on...
I hope some of this threw some more light on my situation.
And if he wants her there, can he come up with a game plan that will enable her to be there and not be a problem? Is her presence important enough to him to lose his marriage over? I ask that because it seems to me that you're marriage is pretty unstable right now, another visit without any reconciliation and rebuilding between the two of you might be more than your marriage can take.
I also think that if he wants to be "a good son" so bad, he should be willing to see an Indian couples counselor so that your relationship can be repaired and a visit can be feasible. It seems at this point that he wants what he wants but isn't willing to give anything in return. I also don't understand why this drive to be a "good son" when apparently he went years without being a "good son" (having her visit). Why is it suddenly so important?
Obviously, I don't know where I might be stepping on tradition or mindsets typical of your culture.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Hi CL,
My DH and I were in total agreement that the baby should not be given certain things, and he said that he would handle the situation, and he DIDNT !! He tried telling them, but then they blackmailed him again, 'oh you think we are going to kill your son by giving him some cake and tea' ?, and he just buckled down. When he stopped saying 'NO' to them, I was extremely upset, and I HAD to say no. And of course they jumped at that with glee - 'oh she is the one behind all this, I told you she doesnt like our handling the baby'...'shez very insulting'... and they would all sit and glare at me, or talk in hushed tones (MIL, FIL and two SILs)... I really dont think I did or said anything that sounded like an insult. I simply said , 'No, dont give that to the baby'.. may be I said it irritatedly, but thats really the truth, I didnt say anything more. It was the most insulting, degrading, and absolutely abhorrent situation I had ever come across in my life, and I pounced on DH, and said he was being spineless. You can imagine what happened next. I cannot keep my cool all the time... I am no saint... I had no idea that things would get so bad.. and I couldnt escape from there because they had arranged several parties for the baby - nearly a whole week everyday - and it would have just been suicidal if I left with the baby though I had a good mind to. I had to grin and bear all this, and act nice and warm and welcoming to the guests, and you can imagine the hell I went through..
What has changed drastically with DH's idea of being a good son is that now his parents are retired. They have nothing to do, and he desparately wants them to spend some time with their grandson, because they want to. Each time he calls them up they tell him how bored and depressed they are and how they miss their grandson, and DH goes all glum because 'I am not allowing him to do the right thing'. Even in my culture, do you think any woman in her sane mind would agree to call her inlaws right now ???
The last time we visited her (2 months back), baby was 1 year old, and I thought I would get the better of the situation (given last visit's learning), and said, 'you can feed him what you like now'... but apparently I did the wrong thing because I was not taking enough care of the baby !!!! I then realised that I am never going to win over these people, I have tried for 7 years, and now I will give up. I will keep them out of my life as much as possible, and have them visit me for limited times, and especially never during stressful times. I have told DH this, and he thinks I am being unfair to them, and that 'they dont really mean anything harmful, they are just speaking their mind'...
He promised me this time that if they come over, he will make sure that his Mom 'understands' the situation, and not let her dictate what needs to be done with the baby.. but I frankly think he will just buckle down to her nasty tongue once again, and we will roll around in the same muck once more. Thats why I said I would find a job, and then they can come because at least we wont be at each other's neck all the time. I have issues with them being with the baby all the time too because MIL and FIL think nothing of hitting and shouting at children. They have done that to their children and I have seen them do it with other grandchildren, and it has nothing to do with culture. They just like bullying. I would feel my child is safer with a childminder.
I guess you may ask that if his parents are so terrible, how come DH turned out to be ok. DH has not been with his parents for nearly 20 years now, and has changed IMMENSELY since he has lived with him - he admits to that himself. I have changed too, but not as drastically as DH. I have known DH in the last 10 years, and every year he has changed for the better, he has become a much better person than the first time I knew him.. I can see that myself... Its just that he takes me for granted, and he is spineless when it comes to his parents. These are the two big issues that are killing our marriage.
wow amyous. i had no idea things were like this. i'm sorry.
unfortunately i have really nothing to say except that you're right in not having them come over now. i was wrong in suggesting that you let them come over. i would still keep insisting that your husband goes to the counsellor with you though.
it doesnt seem like this problem will go away. your in-laws are just toxic people. i dont know how women manage in situations like this.. probably their marital relationship starts crumbling as yours has started to do. i can't really suggest anything other than keep pressuring your husband to start counselling with you. if you do have the guts to walk away from the marriage just to get your husband in line, I'd think about that too.. if you see a counsellor on your own, get a job, it will give you a lot more power and confidence to take this decision.
your husband is the biggest problem here, i hope you see that. none of this would be a problem if your husband had insisted from the beginning that your MIL doesnt cross the line. your mil does seem extreme, even by traditional indian standards. she needs to be dealt with a firm hand and your husband is of course a little peach.. i dont see him dealing with her to your satisfaction until someone knocks some sense into his head.
maybe the cl will have better advice. i'm just stupidly lost here. so sorry amyous.
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