Marriage on 'stones' due to inlaws

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-16-2004
Marriage on 'stones' due to inlaws
29
Wed, 10-04-2006 - 8:00pm

Hi,

This is quite a long one, and I'd like to state a few basic facts before I start:

* We have been married 7 years, now with a 14 month old - joy of our lives. Ironically, he was the start to our troubles.
* We moved countries (from India to UK) in the last months of my pregnancy, and had to deal with new baby, new jobs, new country, no friends etc. in a short span of time.
* I am from India, and typically, marriage is based on traditional roles there. However, I come from a 'forward' family, both parents worked (I am the only child), and my parents believe in women's rights. However, Hubby comes from very traditional set up.
* I've had a rocky relationship with my MIL right from the start, and to tell you the absolute truth, she is nasty to a lot of people - her own brothers sisters and other relatives acknowledge this fact.

We 'had' a wonderful marriage for six years inspite of many minor problems (not least inlaws). My serious relationship troubles began when we invited my inlaws during the last days of my pregnancy. My husband invited them without my consent (though he knows about the rocky relationship bit), and I thought it would be insulting to them if I said 'no' when they had already been invited. I also wanted my Mom's presence at that time (for emotional reasons - I always dreamt I would have my Mom around when I had my first child - she has a major heart problem - it was her first grandchild (inlaws have 4 grandchildren) - and I had told my husband about this several times), so I invited my parents too (my parents stayed in a separate house). MIL hated having them around, made nasty comments about me and my parents to my husband, and complained about me to him all the time. In a short time, my husband turned against me and thought I was being unfair to them, and this caused a lot of fights between us. After a month of enduring this (after the baby was born), in a fit of anger, I told *him* that they should just leave if they thought I was being horrible. They heard that from the next room, and booked their tix for 10 days later. My parents moved in with us shortly after they left, and my husband made no pretense that they were welcome, and was pretty cold to me as well. I got increasingly depressed and became more and more dependent on my parents for company and comfort. I made them stay for 4 months simply bcoz I knew that after they left I wouldnt have anyone to talk to, and I wasnt sure what to expect from my husband. After my parents left, we didnt resolve anything much, and I just coped knowing we would visit India shortly.

We visited India and spent 15 days with inlaws. MIL and FIL did several things with the baby that displeased me - tried to feed a big piece of dry fruit cake to a 5 month old, tried to give him tea etc. Most times my husband agreed with me that they were not doing the right thing, yet he was not able to stop them. Sometimes, I did say to them quite strongly that they should not do xyz bcoz I was scared he would choke or something. MIL started complaining and again both of us had fights. MIL & FIL also organised a large party for the baby and didnt invite my parents or anyone else from my family and I was quite hurt about this, but didnt say anything.

I stayed back in India to help my Mom do a few check ups and it turned out that she had to have major surgery, so I ended up staying longer than I intended. I was frankly happy to have a reason to stay back bcoz I was very lonely in the UK, and my husband was not exactly friendly.

My inlaws never called me during all that time I was with my parents, but kept complaining to my husband that I didnt call them. The 'distance makes the heart grow fonder' was beginning to work on hubby, and he began to 'request' me to call them. I called them a couple of times for a couple of minutes. It was soon time for the baby's first birthday, and I didnt invite my inlaws though I had a grand celebration with my parents and husband. He wanted to invite them but I said 'no' bcoz I knew they would behave badly. Immediately after the birthday, we visited my inlaws and they didnt ask me a single word about my mother (that hurt me very much), and the whole complaints thing started again - this time about how I was not taking enough care of the baby!!! Fortunately it was a very short visit, and I think my husband missed us too much to start a fight !!! My inlaws and I havent talked since then.

I came back to the UK with my husband immediately after baby's first birthday (my Mom got a clean chit from the doctor), and though things are better between us, they are not close to normal. He has a very stressful job, and does quite a lot of the housework. BUT HE DOESNT LISTEN TO ME !!! He asks me 'how was your day', but is not interested when I start to talk, even when I tell him about funny things the baby did ! He loves the baby, and plays with him, but we only communicate basic stuff. I feel like he is a glorified maid plus cash machine. I am coping better with loneliness bcoz I go to toddler groups and have made some friends, but I am quite distressed with his behaviour.

And now, suddenly, he wants to invite his parents to the UK ! I said I dont want them around till I find a job bcoz I dont want to see them 24/7. But he thinks his parents should be invited now bcoz they are getting bored, and this is again creating a strain between us. In theory, he would be happier if we invited them simply bcoz it looks like we have made up with them, but practically, we would all be very unhappy if they came over now. Is he too dumb to understand this after all the drama the whole of last year ? And I am getting tired of having his parents 'between us' all the time now. This is too intimate for me to talk with my new friends here, and I just dont know what to do.

I know there are several unanswered questions here, but I didnt want to go too much into detail. Thanks in advance for all your input.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Fri, 10-13-2006 - 12:52am
Aymous, I don't think anyone could be a saint in dealing with your in-laws. I think you're right in giving up on them, I don't think there's anything you could do that would make them happy, it appears that they've decided to make you the enemy and will attack what you say and do, no matter whether it's good or bad. You know, you said "Even in my culture, do you think any woman in her sane mind would agree to call her in-laws right now?" My answer is "no", but beyond that, I just have to say that I didn't necessarily think that women liked following the cultural rules (at least not the ones that apply to in-laws being with them for months at a time!), even the women who have been raised in a traditional home. Rather, I expected women just unhappily accept it because it is "the way things were". Am I wrong?


What I gather is that now that your in-laws have retired, they're in contact with your husband often, so even though they haven't been at your home for quite a long time, they're still in contact with him frequently and therefore, still feeding his mind, am I right?


I understand feeling that your husband is spineless, etc., and I think feeling that way is completely understandable. But, I think it's much bigger than being "spineless". He was raised by these people and we all continue to have pulls and ties to our parents. Perhaps he never quite felt like he was able to measure up to their expectations always trying, but never quite getting it right, or perhaps he always pleased them. Either way, having them come begin to be a heavy influence caused him to call back to those days and feel a strong, deep drive to please them. Maybe he feels completely wrong or inferior to disagree or stand up to them (thinking of his backing down to what they wanted to feed the baby) or maybe he felt a strong need to please them by agreeing with them that you're the "bad guy" here, by forming an alliance with them he stood a greater chance of measuring up to what they wanted. You said that he's changed a lot since he left their home, but the thing is, in facing them again, even as an adult, he's called back to those same behaviors and actions that he had with them before, it's very understandable and predictable that he'd do that. Does that make sense? This isn't a good example, but it's the only one I can think of. Once, my parents' old dog was ill and failing and needed to be euthanized. My father came to me in tears, sobbing over losing the dog. Even though I was an adult I immediately felt like I was three years old. I immediately felt scared, my daddy was crying, so something must be really wrong. That's not what I thought, but that's the way it felt; panic, fear, danger. No matter that I was an adult, my father's behavior caused me to react as I would have as a child.


When you talk to your husband about this situation now, do you talk to him when things are calm, or do you talk when he or you are upset about things? This needs to be discussed when things are calm and neither of you is angry with the other. You need to be able to talk to him about your concerns, and unless he's calm and ready and able to really listen and discuss, it won't do any good to talk, he'll defend his side and you'll get angry and blaming. It's not surprising that you'd be angry or blaming, he's choosing his parents over you, he's believing them and making you the bad guy, the one who's wrong. If it were happening to me I'd be beyond livid and I'd be beyond offended and disgusted that my husband would think bad things of me. But, getting angry won't help you deal with him on this. Staying calm and rational will. Focusing on the problems, asking him how he'll deal with specific issues, asking him to respond about what he thinks and why he believes differently than he did before. Give him examples of his mother, like what she said when you told her not to feed the baby specific things, then what she said when you told her to go ahead and feed him what she wanted. Ask him to explain those. Giving him specific examples and asking him to discuss them will force him to deal with the real issues and won't allow him to hide behind a simple stand of "they're right and you're wrong".


I truly think you need to speak to a counselor together, and I really think it needs to be an Indian counselor because an Indian counselor would understand the culture and the pull your husband feels to meet the standard that he feels he needs to meet. If your husband won't go, I think it's important for you to go on your own to an Indian counselor, there is likely much that you can do on your own that could greatly help your situation.


I think having his parents come before you've resolved your problems with your husband is a mistake, I think it could be the end of your marriage. You're right, he'll cave and be on their side, he'll allow them to do and say anything they want and you'll be the bad guy. You'll not be able to stand by and watch them deal with your child in a way that you don't feel is right (and you shouldn't), you'll react to the situation you're in (who wouldn't?) and it'll all go downhill from there.







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

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"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2006
Sat, 10-14-2006 - 2:35pm

Hi aymous! I have been a lurker here on the boards for a bit and only post when I feel I have something to say that might be worthwhile if it hasn't already been said? I have read back on all the posts that you have posted and it was with great sadness that I read of your most recent troubles. First please I ask you to understand that I am very direct and straight up due to my nature and given the time contraints I have within my own life. It is NOT out of malice, anger etc etc. Perhaps I lack the diplomacy that has so far eluded me most of my life? (small joke ok?) Now to the points I need to make that I do so very much hope will help you.

#1. I am not of Indian heritage. I am familiar with them only from an arm's length.

#2. I totally disagree with what you have said here "* We have been married 7 years, now with a 14 month old - joy of our lives. Ironically, he was the start to our troubles" NOT SO! Your troubles started waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back. It is unfair to believe that your sweet child was the start of the troubles. I tend to believe you did not mean that as it sounded given your past dialogue on here indicating that you are very intelligent and loving. But I needed to put this up here before I go on.

#3. The problem is NOT SIMPLE which I know most pple will already know...

#4. What I see happening here is NOT just as a result of a couple of Indian Heritage, with the woman having a more modern belief then that of her husband who has a more traditional belief. That in itself presents many difficulties, some of which you have dealt with in the past, and very effectively, and others which may still yet present down the road. BUT THIS husband was raised NOT ONLY in a traditional Indian home, but a very dsyfunctional and abusive home. I am NOT saying that traditional Indian culture makes for an abusive home so please do not even go there! But you yourself described how your MIL and FIL raised their family (you described an abusive upbringing). I can see traits of an abused child in your husband by his current behaviors. He "caves"/"buckles" (the words used) when his parents have presented issues of the utmost importance...HIS CHILD'S welfare (safety? Health?) and his marriage/relationship with you. I disagree with his thought/belief that you are only one that needs counselling. I am not saying you don't...or that you do. That is not the issue. I personally (and it is OMHO that it would be of benefit for you) but it is an absolute necessity that HE DOES, for the safety of himself, his child and you and your marriage. I am not blaming him. He learnt to buckle or cave as a coping behavior as a child. He had to cave as a child in order to 'protect' himself. It is a learnt behavior. He is now an adult and though most times you are able to have conversations with him that are reasonable and mature, just look at what is occurring now? Would you see his behavior as being mature and rational when he decided to allow his mother and father to feed his baby inappropritate foods that could cause his child harm? I am assuming he is intelligent and does know the risks of a child (5 mths of age)at that age choking on "a large chunk of DRY fruitbread"? I believe if I understood it correctly, that this was pointed out at the time? So why did he cave? Because he was under stress and this is what he had done throughout his childhood. This same coping behavior is used by alot of adults because adults who have been abused as children OFTEN resort to these learnt behaviors when confronted with these situations (ie situations that involve the abusers), EVEN after being in therapy for it takes many years to learn NEW and healthier coping behaviors. But first one must be made aware of them. And then it does take years and alot of support to find healthier ones. It is compounded in your situation by culture and different value/belief systems within the culture. You yourself have said that he has changed so much over the years and if you look back on those years when has this behavior occurred and who was present in the situation? His parents. Look back at the years or times when they were not directly involved with some of the issues you have had b/w you. Yes, you have had issues b/w you as most couples do; some were the 'normal/typical' issues alot of couples face when first married etc, and some were because of the different expectations within your culture (you being more modern, he being traditional) BUT this is more then that now IMHO. When it comes to a child's safety and well being, I am reluctant to put it down to being just cultural, or due to the differences b/w a man and a woman. IMHO No one backs down or caves when it comes to their son's or daughter's safety and well being. I am not saying that your well being is not of importance here but you are an adult and can 'take care of yourself' and make choices for yourself. Your child cannot.

I am so thankful that you are a wonderful wise loving mother and are trying to hard to keep watch over your child on your own without the support of your husband at this time. I do recognize how hard it must be for you to try and keep your marriage together but you should never have to defend on YOUR own, your child's safety! That is also your husband's responsibility and he will not and it appears HAS not been able to share that given his current issues. Until he is aware of his behaviors and their origin, I fear that this will be forever an ongoing battle for you. I do feel your frustration, and your pain. I am truly so sorry that you have this to deal with....all of it. The animosity of your in-laws, the toxicity and negativity they present in your life and marriage..all of it, as well as the fears you must have for your child. HUGS many of them, though I know they will be of little help for you right now. I would rather it were hugs from your husband as he goes forth for the counselling he so needs.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 10-14-2006 - 2:48pm
I agree wholeheartedly with what you've said here, Lady_Mishka.


I do want to say though, that if you're thinking that the suggestion that Aymous go to counseling means she is the problem or that there is something wrong with her, that's not at all the case. In counseling she can learn ways to deal with the situations that may very well result in seeing positive changes in her husband and in the situation with her in-laws. It can also very likely help her firm up her decisions on what she's willing to accept in a relationship and how she proceeds.







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

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"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-08-2006
Sat, 10-14-2006 - 10:57pm

Hi cl-2nd life! In response to what you said

"I do want to say though, that if you're thinking that the suggestion that Aymous go to counseling means she is the problem or that there is something wrong with her"

Nooooooooooooo noooooooooo noooo lol! That is not at all the case. That was not my intent and if it came out appearing that way because of my lack of clarity I do apologize. But in my post I said the issue that I was trying to bring forth was the issue that HE requires counselling and that he (the husband) is quite wrong to believe it is HER that needs it and not himself (denial? I don't know but perhaps, or because he has no idea or awareness at this time of how the abuse done unto him as a child does affect him now as an adult). Many pple who have been abused are unaware of their inadequate coping skills until they are in a critical/crisis situation).

But I also stated that IMHO it would benefit her to go. Not because SHE has anything wrong with herself, and NOT because SHE has done anything wrong at all, and NOT to deal WITH his issues directly either. Because she herself may have been unaware of how his inappropriate/inadequate coping behaviors learnt in childhood have been affecting his thought processes and resulting behaviors, having a councillor who is objective and experienced/educated with abuse and it's resulting issues (ie ~how it affects an entire family) will be of benefit for her. Empowering herself by obtaining information and therefore tools for herself to be able to deal/cope (ie therefore hopefully understanding his thought processes and resulting behaviors) will only benefit her and her family as a whole (her parents, her child, herself as well as her husband). Having a councillor will be so beneficial in that she has a resource in which to turn to in the future to validate possible cause and solution. The counciller hopefully will be able to assist her as she works through future difficult issues/behaviors that occur, to discern whether they are abuse related or culturally related, or gender related, or even if they are just a result of a normal life changes, as it will be very confusing and difficult to determine for her to do on her own. Egad I hope this helps make it clearer why I did say HE needs to go..but that IMHO I do believe it would be of benefit for her to do so as well? She has done nothing wrong! And she has nothing wrong with her!! Her councilling would be for the purpose of support, education and empowerment and clarity regarding some very complex and intertwined issues. k? Tx hugs again!

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-08-2004
Mon, 10-16-2006 - 5:42pm
hi cl
i didnt get a chance to reply to your kind words, the other day.
thank you very much. i appreciate having your good wishes. it's really nice to have a support system like this. i hope to be in touch through this board. wish you all a pleasant evening.
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-08-2004
Mon, 10-16-2006 - 5:43pm
hi amyous
any news? have you been able to speak to your husband?
iVillage Member
Registered: 12-16-2004
Mon, 10-16-2006 - 6:46pm

Hi LadyMishka, Ingie, and Cl,

Thanks so much for your concern.. it really makes me feel like I am in touch with someone who cares... each time one of you talks about something, it rings true somewhere.. this abuse thing that ladymishka brought up. I have really wondered about it for the past seven years of my married life... when DH's family (in the beginning) told me about MIL/FIL's disciplining strategies, I was horrified because these children were slapped and beaten for small things. MIL and FIL take a lot of pride in her 'spare the rod and spoil the child' policy till today, and the horrible thing is that their daughters are doing the same to their children. MIL is one of the most insensitive women I have ever come across in my life. e.g. when DH was 5 yrs old and went to school, he came back crying every evening for a couple of days. She asked him what was wrong, but he didnt tell. So what did she do ? 'I slapped him a couple of times and he was fine the third day'. I cant believe there existed or exists such a mother. They probably justify it because 'apparently' all three children of MIL have turned out fine... very bright people, with good professional careers, and on the outside, certainly seem happy enough.... apparently.... There is so much psychological angst in their family its not a joke... MIL and both SILS are walking emotional bombs, who can burst any minute..

DH probably picked up on his parents behaviour and was quite difficult to deal with in our initial spats. Over the years, I dont know why or how he changed, but he certainly seemed to think that getting extremely upset didnt seem to do our relationship much good, and he is content discussing things calmly today (though he does get passionate about what he says). Frankly, I had and still have doubts about DH's parenting ability if the baby stresses him out because we learn a lot of parenting from our own parents. There has been no 'stress' situation so far with the baby because DH just plays with him, and I am around to handle any mishaps or undesirable behaviour by the baby (e.g. pulls and throws our spectacles). I ask him if he would ever lose control and smack the baby anytime, and he vehemently says, 'Oh I would never do that', but I have my doubts, because he has seen his parents and sisters do it, and they are big bullies with their children... Once in a while, I bring up situations in which he was disciplined by his parents, and how he would discipline our baby... and I like what I hear, but I would like to see more than hear. He does realise that his parents' disciplining did him some harm, but then he probably wont agree that its serious enough to need therapy. There is a culture aspect to this again, because in India, you would go to a therapist only if you were extremely affected. I think thats one of the reasons he says he wont go to counselling. I will go because its best benefit for me will be to get all the anger and hurt out of my system... and I really dont know how to convince him to do the same for himself and us.

One more point of clarification is that (smile) I dont hold this in any way against the baby. Its just my disappointment and regret that all this mess had to happen when he was born. I kept telling DH (last year) - that this was supposed to be the most joyful time of our lives, and we were quarelling over some rubbish that his parents were telling him. I dont think I can ever forget the trauma of those 2 months, and its so sad that it has to be associated with the birth of my bundle of joy. We (my son and I) just enjoy each other's company absolutely, and he is generally a very happy cheerful child... and to his credit, a lot of times he has diffused tense silences between me and DH in the past couple of months :), how could I hold anything against him ?!??!

Another clarification that I wanted to make was that I am unable to reply to posts as early as I would like because some days I just dont have the energy to get onto the internet. I hope it wont reflect on my enthusiasm to share your really invaluable views on my problem.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 10-17-2006 - 12:02am
Lol, Lady_Mishka, I thought you might think I, might be suggesting Aymous was the one who had the problem!







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

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"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Tue, 10-17-2006 - 12:08am
I'm glad our conversations are helping, Aymous.


Others discussing their thoughts on your situation can really give some insights you hadn't had before, can't it? I've found the perspectives of others to often give me a whole new way of thinking about things.


I hope once he sees you going that your husband will decide to join you.







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"

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