maybe this is silly but....
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| Wed, 02-01-2006 - 5:44pm |
Hi everyone, I'm new to this board. My name is Kristina, I'm 25 and I've been married(pretty happily) for five years(actually it will be 5 years tommorrow!). My husband and I have a two and half year old and a five year old, both boys.
Of course I love my husband and could see myself with no one else, but he seriously drives me up the wall! I don't think a day goes by where I don't want to scream at him or do some form of bodily harm to him! I'm not sure if it's just me or what. He is so good at giving me the guilt trip, making me think everything is my fault(of course that may be just my thinking, I don't know!)
Anyway, my husband works, I stay home with the kids. I really want to get a job, but without going to college any job I get won't bring home enough to pay for anything but daycare and gas to get back and forth-not really worth it, although I've considered it just to get a break from the kids for a while each day! My husband is a railroader and his job varies greatly from day to day. Sometimes he will only have to work three or four days in a week, sometimes he will work every day for a week, we just never know.
I'm getting to my point, I promise! The thing is, he thinks that because he's the sole breadwinner of the family, he is not responsible for anything else. If I don't ask, he won't lift a finger. He either sits in front of the computer all day or watches movies. If he's not home doing nothing, he is at the gym. As we speak, there are 3 bags of garbage in front of the back door waiting to be taken out, I can tell you I will most likely be the one to take them out. He won't pick up his dirty clothes, and 9 times out of 10, he leaves his dishes in the livingroom for me to pick up. He says he forgets, but I am beginning to think that he is just lazy. One time I purposely didn't wash his clothes, just walked around them and left them in a pile on our bedroom floor. After a week, he still hadn't noticed!!! When I finally said something to him, he said " those can't be all mine" when I assured him they indeed were he said "well, I saw them and meant to pick them up and forgot" So, when he did pick them up, you know what he did? He piled them in front of the basement door. I had to haul the clothes downstairs and then wash dry fold and put away at least 4 loads of clothes. pointless.
This applys to the children too. When I ask him to change a poopy diaper he acts like he is the only one who changes poopy diapers! I can't remember the last time he gave the kids a bath and every time he puts the kids to bed (once every 2 months or so) he puts them in bed and leaves the room. I've tried to tell him that they are used to me putting them in bed, I sing to them and cuddle you know, they feel jypped(sp?) if he is only in their room for 30 seconds!
I can't remember the last time I didn't have an angry day. I am angry at the kids also. I feel stretched too thin. I don't know what to do. We have talked-I have talked but nothing I say stays in his head. I don't want to have sex with him, I dread going to bed with him and when he asks to have sex I think, why should I do something for you when you never do anything for me(of your own free will anyway).
Ok, well this is really long, sorry!!!! It felt extrememly good to vent though. I realize that it is not just him, it's me also, I know that, but I still don't know what to do. Any advice-any at all-would be so greatly appreciated. I fear I may live the rest of my life in anger if I cant change, or get my husband to pitch in. I don't want my kids to think this is how a marriage is supposed to be. Please Help!!!!!
-Kristina

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Here's the problem....you went from being someone's daughter - to someone's wife - and now you're someone's mother.
There's never been a period of your life when you were complete, secure, self-identified, defined, successful and independent. You wanted identity in "roles" - and in those roles you've found obligation, requirement, sacrifice and effort - but not alot of anything else but a little but of "occasional situational joy".
There's a good reason to go back to work - even if it doesn't pay for anything but daycare and the gas.....it's to get you out of the house, away from kids and how they reason, think and get on your nerves all day long - and to realize that YOU NEED TO BE SELF-SUFFICIENT.
If tomorrow he were in a horrible accident and disfigured and owuld never work again or dead - you'd be required to pick up the ball where he dropped it - and continue on - still cooking, cleaning, and parenting the kids, but now working 8-5 and so on and so forth.
So you getting ON with getting a professional resume, and a professiona life is an EXCELLENT IDEA! Not only do you need the intellectual and emotional stimulation of adult interaction...you need the professional advancement. Because you didn't go to college doesn't mean you can't advance...but I'm here to tel lyou having lived it - don't wait till your back is against the wall at 35 and decide "oh, I need a job".
You'll get one, entry level, minimum wage and never much else - because youll have been "out of work" so long - while working yourself to death in a n honorable but unsung profession - "wife and mother".
You can't live vicariously thru him, and the kids...you need to define your own goals nd pursue those things. YOu need to get an hour a day without the kids even if it's 9-10pm - and go out and run, or take up a hobby - something that involves you only - and benefits you only - so that you begin to connect with you.
You've never done it. he best friend you thoought he was - he cannot ever be the best friend to you that you should be. It has nothing to do with him...and everything to do with how life works.
You are angry because you "need" him in light of all the situations and obligations that you've created WITH him thinking that this was "identity, success, security and would bring you happiness."
And you can alleviate alot of the frustration and guilt and anger by going out and becoming "complete and self-identified" - which doesn't mean you have to leave everything you've created behind and "start over".
You've got NOWHERE to start but where you are - the past doesn't determine the future - but it has created your present.
Erin
quickblade14@hotmail.com
I've been there and done that and it didn't get any better. I just got angrier. Even when I went back to work, all of the household chores were still mine. He never lifted a finger when I went back to work. Even if you go back to work, you'll still have soooooooooooo much to do when you get home. Think about that. I argued with my husband all the time, and it never changed. If you want the laundry done, you'll be doing it yourself. If you want the house clean, you'll be cleaning it yourself. If you want groceries, you'll be going to the store. If you want to eat, you'll be cooking. You have four choices:
1. Go back to work and STILL be doing all the chores.
2. Stay home and do all the chores.
3. Get a divorce and STILL do all the chores.
4. Argue with your husband ALL THE TIME about his laziness.
We ended up getting a divorce. I hope your marriage can survive.
Kristina,
I have to say, one SAHM to another, I SOOOOO understand the frustration of being home all day with the kids! There are days where I could just crawl back in bed and not get out, LOL!
That said, I think the best thing you can do for your children is to stay at home with them. (I know I will be argued with on this one...) I agree that you need to do things, ie have hobbies and even get a degree. Being able to be self-sufficient should the need arise is a VERY good thing. Do you think you could start by taking a class or two at the local CC or something? It would get you out a little AND help by getting you closer to getting a degree. But I think that being the one to raise you kids is the best thing you can do, so I would disagree with getting a full-time job and putting the kids in daycare.
Chances are your DH is just used to being taken care of. You DID eventually give in and wash his laundry. So he STILL didn't have to do anything. I would have left them at the top of the stairs if you were trying to make a point.
I know that you want your DH to just pitch in without asking. How did his mom and dad handle things? Did he have any chores growing up? Chances are this is the way he really, truly thinks things should be and it doesn't occur to him that it should be different. And since he's got a really good deal, then why would he voluntarily change things on his own? Does he do things if you ask? And if so, why don't you ask more? Then maybe he'd get into the habit after awhile...
Jen
I would suggest starting by talking to him about this. Do it at a time when you are reasonably sure you won't be interrupted (hard with kids, I know) and let him know ahead of time that you want to talk to him. A good way to bring it up is something like, "I have a problem I'd like your help with later. Can we talk after the kids go to bed?" That gets him in "help/problem solving mode" rather than "defensive, she's going to attack me mode". Tell him what your problem is; that you feel that you're doing the lion's share of looking after the kids while he's home and not only do you need his help, but the kids need to see their dad taking care of them. It's important in what the kids are learning about adult roles. He wants his kids to see as being as capable as mommy is, doesn't he? I'm assuming you'll be able to get his agreement on parenting. If he says he already is doing a fair half, say "Great! Tonight must be my night to sit on the computer all night then!" and make it stick. Move on to picking up after himself, and the other chores you want/need him to do. If he says he just forgets to pick up after himself, ask him how he thinks he can get better at remembering (and ask it sincerely, you're problem solving here). Tell him you have no problem doing the dishes, the laundry, etc., but it's only common courtesy to put his dishes in the sink, his clothes in the hamper. Tell him that you're his partner, not his maid and that from now on you're only doing clothes that are in the hamper, dishes that are in the sink. From here, you have to make it stick, and that can be hard, so you have to be ready to take this to the limit -- or be willing to be his maid for the rest of your life. If he leaves clothes on the floor, don't wash them. You had the right idea with leaving them a week last time (I hope you'd already made it clear clothes need to be in the hamper or they wouldn't be washed, otherwise it just looks like vindictive act), but you did't make it stick. Leave them right where they are for as long as he ignores them, I don't care if it's one week or four months, don't touch them. If he leaves a wet towel on the floor, drop it on his side of the bed. Betcha he doesn't do that too many more times. If he leaves dishes in the living room, if you have to, stack them on a shelf in the living room or put them in a box, but leave them in the living room, don't you dare put them in the kitchen! If you run out of plates because he's got so many in the living room, be sure you have enough for you and the kids, but leave him plate-less. Tell him calmly, "Sorry we don't have any more clean plates" and leave it at that. In the beginning of this it will be a battle of wills. He's learned that all he has to do is ignore it long enough and it's taken care of for him. It'll take time for him to realize you're really not going to do it. Once he realizes you're leaving them he'll continue to leave them trying to out last you. If you "can't take it", give up and take care of things, you're stuck doing it forever because you'll have just taught him that yes indeed, if he waits long enough you will do it. It has to be inconvenient for him, it has to impact him. He won't be happy. He'll probably try to make you feel like you're unreasonable, not doing your job, expecting too much, being petty and ridiculous, etc. Paint a kind smile on your face, close your ears and stand your ground. The trick to doing this is your attitude. You have to go through this acting as though you fully have faith in him, believing that he really will get to it when he has time. Don't bug him about it, don't remind him, not ever. If he grumbles about it you can say, "I know you'll get to it when you can" and let it go. You can do this, and it's great training for your kids too. When my kids would complain that they didn't have any clean socks, I'd look real puzzled and say, "that's funny, I just did the laundry, and I did everything in your basket???" Of course, you have to say it genuinely or it doesn't work. It doesn't take kids long to figure out they didn't put their sock in the laundry basket and it won't take your husband long either. No doing special "hurry up" laundry loads because of something that's been sitting on the floor for a week either. Only do laundry when you regularly would. They'll only get it by feeling the consequences of their choices and actions. Do NOT let him off the hook or you have sealed your own fate.
With your husband's attitude being what it is (he already does half the dirty diapers), it sounds like he needs a good dose of reality. You really need to get away, leave him alone with the kids for a weekend. He needs a taste of what it's like to be with them 24/7 for at least two days to get the full effect. No making meals ahead or doing extra laundry, leave it just as it is, he'd not blink about leaving things just as they are for you, he's certainly no less capable -- and he won't learn an thing if you make it nice and easy for him. He'll say he did it all and it was a breeze. Let him have to go to the store, plan meals, do laundry, the whole bit. You may hate to think about him being there on his own, but he can do it and it will be the best thing you ever did for yourself and for him. I guarantee when you come back he'll have a whole new respect for you and what you do. I would also suggest you start taking off regularly while he's on his long stints home, get out by yourself, go shopping (not grocery!) see friends, whatever, but leave the kids with him and get a break! You need it and deserve it. It'll make you a better mom a better wife, and a better you too.
Another option on help around the house is having a cleaning person come in once a week. No argument, no push, and the work gets done.
Jen's going to be surprised that I say that I agree that being home with your kids is important, but I also think you need some breaks. Having a husband who's gone for days at a time is exhausting for you and leaves no time for yourself. A part-time job could be good or volunteering and writing the childcare off on your taxes (check that-- I think that's do-able). Swap with friends, you take their kids for an afternoon so she can have some downtime, she does the same for you another day. Hire a teenager to help you around the house with the kids, even when you're home. The kids get used to her, you have time to watch her in action, and eventually she becomes your babysitter!
I'm sure reading time is at a bare minimum for you, but a really great book for you to read that would help you in dealing with your husband is "The Dance of Anger: A Woman's Guide to Changing the Patterns of Intimate Relationships", by Harriet Lerner. . It's an easy read, makes great sense and is recommended by therapists everywhere. See if your library has it.
What do you think? (and happy anniversary!)
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Wow-you guys really gave me a lot to think about! I've been going back and forth between being angry at him for not helping and feeling guilty because maybe I'm just crazy, maybe I'm just asking too much of him.
After reading your messages I realized that I have been enabling him to treat me as a maid. Although he says he doesn't care what the house looks like, it doesn't matter because he knows I will pick up after him. That is a bad thing for the kids to learn also, I have a really hard time getting him to pick up after himself already!
I don't think my husband got this from his parents, well sloppiness maybe, it is impossible for some reason for his mom to pick up. She is a packrat! His dad is just like him, sits in front of the tv whenever he's not working. Only his mom doesn't pick up after his dad, I don't think. I think he got it from his grandparents, really. They are the nicest people in the world, but his grandma does everything for his grandpa. I think she likes to do it, though. I told my husband before, Im not your grandma and it's not the fifty's anymore!! But as always, things go in one ear and out the other.
I think I probably will end up getting a job, just part time. My five year old will be in Kindergarten this year so I won't have to pay for much daycare for him.
I also think I will have a talk with him, maybe tonight and bring up my issues with him. And I will NOT be picking his stuff up anymore either!
Well before this turns into another really long post, I just want to say thanks to everyone for your advice, it really helps to know that I'm not the only one who has a husband who doesn't do his share! And now I feel like I know what to do about it. I'll let you know how it goes and thanks again!!
-Kristina
Kristina, it seems to me that your husband simply followed his father's example then, much to his delight, found that he didn't have to pick up after himself because you did it for him.
I have to tell you that it's easy to adopt his attitude. I'm ashamed to say I've been there myself. There was a time when my husband was unemployed and during that time he insisted on doing all the housework so that he could feel that he was contributing to the household. I have to say, it was really nice to come home every day to a clean house, laundry done, dinner ready....all of it. All I did was work and go home to relax, he took care of everything. That's the habit we fell into. Then he went back to work and guess what, I didn't pick up the slack, he continued to do it all and work, while I continued to work, then do nothing. When he suggested that I needed to pitch in I actually found myself feeling a little ticked off that he'd expect that I should be doing some of the work -- it honestly seemed an inconvenience that I should be expected to do it, I felt entitled to do none of it. He never knew how I really felt because even though I felt it, I knew it was waaay out of line. I kept my bad attitude to myself, sucked it up and did the work I should have been doing from the minute he went back to work. So, I know it's an easy habit to sink into if somebody else is doing it all for you, and the feeling that you're entitled is wrong, wrong, wrong, but boy I felt it, and I bet they do too. I guarantee you I wasn't raised to believe a man's place was in the kitchen, so I didn't get it there - lol!
One important thing I forgot to mention about not picking up for him anymore. Your actions and your attitude have to be positive and pleasant. You can't remind him to do it, and you can't yell at him about it either. You need to convey the feeling that you absolutely know that he'll do his stuff as soon as he can, period, no matter how long it goes undone. Never act like it's an inconvenience and never act like you're sorry he's been inconvenienced because of it (say if you're out of dishes or something). Don't fight about it, you shouldn't have any reason to fight about it. Keep a smile on your face and belief in him in your head - even if you don't really believe it, lol!
And if/when you're talking to him about chores, don't forget to mention what he does do (change the oil in the cars, mow the lawn, etc. - if he does those things) but chores that only happen once a month or so, once a week, or seasonally don't carry as much weight as a daily chore, you know?
Good luck!
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
I think you've received great advice, but before you can effect some change you need to get through to him and get him to see this is killing you.
Sorry, I posted before I got through all the posts.
Well, I talked to him. It went ok. He kind of thought it was funny, but it must have worked a little. He left his clothes in the bathroom after his shower and I didn't touch them. A little later they were gone! He left his lunch plate on the coffee table for a while, but eventually he picked it up and put it on the counter. Now, if I can just get him to actually put them IN the dishwasher! At least he's trying, although I'm staring at a pop bottle and water glass that he left on the computer desk. They will stay there until he notices. He is doing a lot better, what a relief.
Another reason I've been wanting him to help is that we are moving next month (we rent now) and the landlady is going to want to show this place to other people. I can't get the house presentable if he doesn't do his part, plus it would be nice if we could start fresh when we move, if he would be used to picking up after himself. It would make the transition so much easier!
Anyway, thanks again everyone for all the advice, I really appreciate it, I couldn't have done it without your encouragement!
-Kristina
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