My turn to be on the fence
Find a Conversation
| Wed, 02-22-2006 - 12:02am |
Hello everyone,
I just wanted to get some advice. I've been with my bf for over a year (I'm sure 2nd life will post all my last posts). We've had numerous problems. Lately we got back together after a breakup that was the worst ever and we've been doing really well. He's been very respectful of what I ask, we've been talking about the future, moving in together, having a great time together and just really putting forth a lot of effort for each other.
However, I really am afraid to commit to things right now because I still feel like I don't know enough about him and what he chooses to do when he's alone.
Let me back up, we had a problem with porn (he was viewing it, I had stated from the get go that it WILL not be in my SO's life), so he was busted...it's been a long time since then and honestly I do trust him as far as that's concerned or getting there, however I feel like porn isn't just limited to straight up naked women and here lies the problem.
Sometimes I notice he likes channels that display women obviously very sexually on certain shows and he has several channels saved under favorites that have shows like this. He claims he just watches the shows pertaining to what he likes but I can't help but wonder if he doesn't watch them when I'm not around. There are women with their chests busting out, washing cars half naked, etc. etc. etc. He promises he doesn't seek stuff out like that and doesn't watch shows/movies for those reasons. Also I just found a video of something like car racing that I decided to preview and the material on it, well, I would not have it in my house EVER. Granted the majority of it is just car racing but a slinky model does appear on the front (not completely obnoxious or anything but definitely hinting to the fact that there's women on this DVD) and most of what I saw was in the bonus features. HOWEVER, I WOULD NOT ALLOW this kind of stuff in my house.
For the most part, I feel like we get along we want to move in the same direction, I am trusting him more, we are talking more, we are giving more to each other, but I am PETRIFIED at this point because if he is watching this stuff deliberately and possibly hiding it, I can't see myself being with someone like that. I know I am probably much more uptight than most women but I won't settle on this issue and I have my reasons. He claims that he is used to a lot of things (yeah go figure since you were watching PORN you shmuck) and so it doesn't phase or "bother" him like it does me. He has agreed (now Jen will understand me on this) to look away if there is obvious sexual content of naked women in movies but you know what, I am hardly seeing much of a difference between naked women, and barely clothed women, it's all for the same purpose and I HATE IT!
He has changed A LOT since we've been together and we have fought to get to the point where we are and to have things going as smoothly as they are is wonderful, but even the slightest hint of anything like this and I go ballistic all over again (plus it's an awful reminder I don't want of porn, anything similar sets me off). He's been better if I approach him about the reminders on tv, in movies, etc., at least if I'm present, but it matters a great deal to me that he is being honest about it and respectful of my feelings when I'm NOT there too and it MUST be that way if we are going to end up getting married. He says that he doesn't seek this stuff out, but if it came on tv, I would want it turned to a different channel, or if it was on a DVD, the DVD would get put in the trash and not kept for my children to one day look around and find or for my DH to be watching either EVER.
We come from two very different worlds sometimes and sometimes I am afraid of all the things he knows and has been exposed to where I managed to shelter myself from a lot of things even though I had a screwed up life. I am afraid of the male psyche and afraid of some of their preoccupations with sex (his best friend seems to be always preoccupied with sex, making sexual comments, etc. - I have NO respect for this friend).
I have some serious concerns and right now despite the breakup, he is ready to move forward and to move forward soon with me but I feel like I'm the one now who is on the fence and I'm so afraid and feel like even though I love him and have always thought so much he was the only one I wanted to be with, I question his character and I cannot make another mistake in marrying someone, it has to be 100% right. I am even getting scared that maybe he's not the person I see all the time and that he might act different when he's not around me or around other people, even other women. I mean I do trust him but he can be very charming and flirtatious so I don't necessarily worry about him cheating or anything but sometimes I wonder if his heart is all there with me to be acting respectfully of me at all times even when we're not together. I suppose I really question his integrity now and complete honesty in his actions since he did lie before and what he lied about (the porn) and wonder if he could be hiding that, what else could he be hiding in his heart that he could manage to not be truthful with me about?
I'm very very scared to move forward right now and I feel like he is ready to jump right into this, I mean could he be that ready also when we almost just broke up for good or is it more convenience to live together and save money? He says he thinks living together would really help our relationship, but I wonder if I just will be mad and frustrated with him all the time, or if maybe I'll really see that he is a good and honest person. Either way how do I feel comfortable with that before it happens, because I have 2 small children I will not just "experiment" and let it happen just to find out it's not going to work, I would have to feel it was 100% what I wanted and was absolutely without a doubt going to marry this person who I hypothetically would look up to and admire and would respect their person and character and right now I don't feel that way, so what do I do? Please, any advice is welcome.

Pages
I won't discuss his viewing habits because they're not the issue here. The issue is that your partner is not the man you want him to be. Ever since you've been posting here, there has been things about him that you don't like and want to change. And I believe that this is quite unreasonable of you.
When we truly love someone, we should love them for who they are and the values they hold. But you want to change this man and mould him into the man you want him to be. The fact that you are so critical of his lifestyle and values makes me believe that you don't truly love and accept this man for who he is.
There will be one of three outcomes for the two of you:
1. he'll change and end up resenting you because of all the pressure you placed on him to be a different man.
2. he won't change and will continue to look at this stuff behind your back.
3. he'll eventually get annoyed at you wanting to change him and leave you. But no matter what the outcome, you're going to end up with a resentful man.
Quite frankly, if a man were to post here and say that his girlfriend didn't accept his lifestyle and wanted to change him, I'd advise him to break up the relationship.
Healing from Porn?
His move or mine?
Don't know if we're gonna make it....
Breakthrough...
Not getting much better...
Standing my ground!
Who is right/Who is wrong?
Bad combination of couch material
Might be the endSomeone tell me
I'll be back in a bit ~
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
You posted on the problems in your relationship (porn related) on the Let's Talk About Sex board (you provided the link in a response in your first post on this board) in May 2005. It was still a big enough issue for you that you posted here about it in September 2005, and have continued off and on about it and other problems in your relationship since then. In other words, your relationship has has very serious, major problems for the last nine months. In your January 13th post ("Might Be the End"), your boyfriend had ended the relationship and but came back when you pressured him to. Here we are today - five weeks later and you're talking with him about the future, worrying about making another marriage mistake, etc., etc. Quirky, this is ridiculous. You've had major, MAJOR problems for nearly the last full year. Your relationship dissolved to the point of break up five weeks ago. Looking forward at a future with him, talking to him about the future, worrying about marrying him is completely inappropriate and (sorry) immature. This isn't high school and fairy tales, this is real life and in real life you don't look at serious problems for a year, watch your relationship get worse and worse, then put fairy dust back in your head and think about the future and marriage. It makes no sense, it's not logical and it's not showing appropriate care for yourself or your children. This is the time to use your head, not your heart, this is the time to think rationally and realistically and put aside what you wish could be. Every fiber of your being should be on "caution". You should be recognizing that the fact you've had serious problems for the last year means you're probably not right for each other. It means for sure you need to take the next year or more to slow things down a bit, watch carefully, proceed with caution (if you must) have no thoughts of the future and certainly make no plans for the future -- even in your head. This is the time to assess the situation, not dream. I don't see how you can honestly have been broken up five weeks ago and be back to marriage and future now. This in itself is a huge red flag to your judgment.
About porn you said, "and honestly I do trust him as far as that's concerned or getting there,"then you proceeded to outline concerns that pornography was still an issue and that he wasn't being honest with you. Clearly you don't trust him and you aren't "almost there" despite what you'd like to believe.
You said, "He has changed A LOT since we've been together and we have fought to get to the point where we are and to have things going as smoothly as they are is wonderful, but even the slightest hint of anything like this and I go ballistic all over again (plus it's an awful reminder I don't want of porn, anything similar sets me off). He's been better if I approach him about the reminders on tv, in movies, etc., "Quirky, if he was in agreement with how you wanted things to be there would be no "fighting to get to the point where you are now". This issues don't seem to be as cleaned up as you'd like them to be since you say "the slightest hint of anything like this and I go ballistic all over again", if it was resolved, you would have no reason to go ballistic. Furthermore, if he agreed with your belief you wouldn't have to "approach him about the reminders on tv", it would be taken care of because he wouldn't need reminding. In other words, the only thing that's changed is he's given up fighting and agrees with you in word, but clearly isn't on the same page with you because he doesn't follow through with "your wishes". Do you see what I mean? If the were his way too, there would be no fight, no reminders, no ballistic, you would be in agreement and it would not be an issue because it would not come up. As in the very beginning of your posts Quirky, nothing's really changed. You believe one way, he doesn't. You can beat him into mostly going along with you (at least in appearance) but you can't make him believe it and you can't get him to "get it right" because he doesn't see it like you do, he doesn't believe it, he doesn't subscribe to it. It doesn't matter if we're talking about porn or mashed potatoes. Your feelings are strong one way, his do not agree at all. You have a huge moral incompatibility and it won't go away. It's huge and it will remain huge. It will also remain an unresolved issue. Always.
For the rest, Quirky, I'd suggest you read the responses to your old posts. Honestly, nothing's changed, the same answers apply as applied before. You have the same issues, the same problems, and the same brick walls you're trying to beat through.
You can't force a relationship, certainly not a good one. Good relationships are easy, problems come up are resolved and the relationship continues without it. In bad relationships you continue to struggle, issues aren't resolved, you stay stuck and battle the same problems, or what seem like new problems that are really carry-overs and off shoots of the usual ones. You struggle to keep things afloat. Bad relationships take a lot of work and you're working really hard.
So what do you do? You take a real honest look and realize this guy is not the prince charming you want him to be. You realize he's not play-doh to be molded into what you want him to be. You realize he is what he is and who he is and the fact is, what and who he is are not what you're looking for, you thought he was at first, but you've had plenty of time to see that's not so. I think it's way past time to let this relationship go.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Quirky,
I know what you mean about tv shows and commercials. And lately I've gotten sick of the stupid ads all over the internet. Ones for dating services or Victoria's Secret or what-not. But I don't have to give my H reminders AT ALL. If a commercial comes up and he has the remote, the channel changes before I realize why it's changing. If he doesn't have the remote, he immeadiately looks at me and starts talking to me about something, before I realize what's going on. If I'm not in the room and I hear a commerical and "peak" at him, he's reading a book, or magazine, or he gets up and leaves the room (if I took the remote with me.) So I have no reason to doubt him when he says he agrees with me. Because every action he has backs that up. I have all his passwords to all his email accounts because he has nothing to hide. And he has all passwords to all mine for the same reason. He has never toggled a computer screen down when I walk into the room, he doesn't alter the internet history, and neither do I. We live our lives as open books.
If I had to remind my H, then I would know that it wasn't important to him. Because he remembers things that are important to him and forgets the things that aren't. And because of that, I know it's important to him and that he ACTUALLY agrees and isn't just giving it lip service.
As for the rest of the stuff, I'll just second 2nd-Life's position.
Jen
>>But I don't have to give my H reminders AT ALL.<<
In my case, it was the issue of binge drinking when I met my DH. I'm very happy to share a bottle of wine over dinner or at a party, but I don't like being around someone who's so drunk that they don't have full control over their actions. He realised very early on that his binge drinking would be a deal breaker for me and he promptly changed his ways. I didn't ask him to do so, he just made the decision by himself.
About the only concession is Xmas time when he gets ripped at a work party. And while I don't like it, I don't say anything because once per year is not a big issue in the grand scheme of things. (I just secretly worry about him getting home in one piece LOL)
However, if he kept slipping up it would be evidence that he didn't really want to change. In that case, he would have been far better off with a woman who joined in with his binge drinking - and I would have been better off with a man who didn't object to my comparitively sober ways.
Quirky, the emoticon I've chosen for this post is "thank you".
Thank you for reminding me of how life was like with my ex-wife.
Thank you for reminding me how much I appreciate my second (and only for the rest of my life) wife for her acceptance of me as being me, including my occasional viewing of other naked women because that's what some men do every now and then without it killing a relationship.
Thank you for demonstrating to me that there is a real difference between people who want to change you to their way of thinking and life and people who accept you and your differences and honesty.
Thank you for posting a series of posts that all single men should read to learn how to avoid staying in a relationship that they should never have started in the first place.
Thank you for posting a clear post of why it's better to end a relationship BEFORE marriage and lawyers pick your pockets.
Thank you for having the courage to hear very plain talk encouraging you to think with your head and either end your relationship RIGHT NOW or change YOUR way of looking at the world (and how nudity fits into a healthy sexual relationship).
Thank you and I hope you find the man you're looking for because this STBX boyfriend needs to hit the door and get out NOW.
JMMO (Just my male opinion)
NRE
P.S. I'm in my fifties and speak from a long personal track record of endurance in a marriage "changing" for the spouse. Resentment was as high as Mt. Everest by the end of the marriage.....
Excellent post, Noregretsever.
Eloquent, honest, down to earth and a good dose of common sense. And I'm so glad that you've finally found the acceptance that you deserve.
I remember an old boyfriend who I was with for a few years. He wanted to change me. I was apparently too sexual, laughed too loud, spoke too loud, jokes too inappropriate .....etc etc. And I did change for him - but I never enjoyed being this new person. And I've also experienced the resentment that you spoke of.
These days, I have a husband who loves me for who I am and would never try to change me. And there's not one thing that I would change about him either. To me, this is what love is all about.
Hi Quirky..
First of all, thanks so much for your reply to my post. I especially appreciate the input regarding the insurance issues (from everyone!), and plan to do my homework on that topic.
I'm so sorry to read about the ups and downs that you have experienced with your SO. I didn't have a chance to read through all your posts to gain the full story, but I gather that you've had ongoing issues, and I'm sure they have been painful for you. Let me just say that whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck. I hope you are able to arrive at a destination where you are happy and fulfilled - you seem like such a nice person.
I look forward to getting to know you better.
Chin_up
You absolutely have a right to decide what you will or will not live with, but I fear that your strict views will leave you alone. Because it sounds like it's not just porn you won't allow, but any TV show or movie that shows attractive women. And that's very controlling, and I would be surprised if you could find someone who would tolerate such controlling behavior indefinitely.
You said that you are uncomfortable with male sexuality, but that's not something you can get rid of. And even if you find a guy who is willing to give up TV, movies, and being out in society where attractive women are around (which is everywhere), he still will have sexual urges.
So I think that there are definitely some deeper issues that you need to deal with in order for you to be able to be in a healthy relationship with a man.
As far as this guy goes, perhaps the best thing is to end the relationship at least for the meantime, so you can both deal with these issues. While you have a right to decide what you want, he does too. And he isn't in the wrong for watching TV shows or movies with women in them. It just means that perhaps you're wrong for each other.
All the best.
Pages