My turn to be on the fence
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| Wed, 02-22-2006 - 12:02am |
Hello everyone,
I just wanted to get some advice. I've been with my bf for over a year (I'm sure 2nd life will post all my last posts). We've had numerous problems. Lately we got back together after a breakup that was the worst ever and we've been doing really well. He's been very respectful of what I ask, we've been talking about the future, moving in together, having a great time together and just really putting forth a lot of effort for each other.
However, I really am afraid to commit to things right now because I still feel like I don't know enough about him and what he chooses to do when he's alone.
Let me back up, we had a problem with porn (he was viewing it, I had stated from the get go that it WILL not be in my SO's life), so he was busted...it's been a long time since then and honestly I do trust him as far as that's concerned or getting there, however I feel like porn isn't just limited to straight up naked women and here lies the problem.
Sometimes I notice he likes channels that display women obviously very sexually on certain shows and he has several channels saved under favorites that have shows like this. He claims he just watches the shows pertaining to what he likes but I can't help but wonder if he doesn't watch them when I'm not around. There are women with their chests busting out, washing cars half naked, etc. etc. etc. He promises he doesn't seek stuff out like that and doesn't watch shows/movies for those reasons. Also I just found a video of something like car racing that I decided to preview and the material on it, well, I would not have it in my house EVER. Granted the majority of it is just car racing but a slinky model does appear on the front (not completely obnoxious or anything but definitely hinting to the fact that there's women on this DVD) and most of what I saw was in the bonus features. HOWEVER, I WOULD NOT ALLOW this kind of stuff in my house.
For the most part, I feel like we get along we want to move in the same direction, I am trusting him more, we are talking more, we are giving more to each other, but I am PETRIFIED at this point because if he is watching this stuff deliberately and possibly hiding it, I can't see myself being with someone like that. I know I am probably much more uptight than most women but I won't settle on this issue and I have my reasons. He claims that he is used to a lot of things (yeah go figure since you were watching PORN you shmuck) and so it doesn't phase or "bother" him like it does me. He has agreed (now Jen will understand me on this) to look away if there is obvious sexual content of naked women in movies but you know what, I am hardly seeing much of a difference between naked women, and barely clothed women, it's all for the same purpose and I HATE IT!
He has changed A LOT since we've been together and we have fought to get to the point where we are and to have things going as smoothly as they are is wonderful, but even the slightest hint of anything like this and I go ballistic all over again (plus it's an awful reminder I don't want of porn, anything similar sets me off). He's been better if I approach him about the reminders on tv, in movies, etc., at least if I'm present, but it matters a great deal to me that he is being honest about it and respectful of my feelings when I'm NOT there too and it MUST be that way if we are going to end up getting married. He says that he doesn't seek this stuff out, but if it came on tv, I would want it turned to a different channel, or if it was on a DVD, the DVD would get put in the trash and not kept for my children to one day look around and find or for my DH to be watching either EVER.
We come from two very different worlds sometimes and sometimes I am afraid of all the things he knows and has been exposed to where I managed to shelter myself from a lot of things even though I had a screwed up life. I am afraid of the male psyche and afraid of some of their preoccupations with sex (his best friend seems to be always preoccupied with sex, making sexual comments, etc. - I have NO respect for this friend).
I have some serious concerns and right now despite the breakup, he is ready to move forward and to move forward soon with me but I feel like I'm the one now who is on the fence and I'm so afraid and feel like even though I love him and have always thought so much he was the only one I wanted to be with, I question his character and I cannot make another mistake in marrying someone, it has to be 100% right. I am even getting scared that maybe he's not the person I see all the time and that he might act different when he's not around me or around other people, even other women. I mean I do trust him but he can be very charming and flirtatious so I don't necessarily worry about him cheating or anything but sometimes I wonder if his heart is all there with me to be acting respectfully of me at all times even when we're not together. I suppose I really question his integrity now and complete honesty in his actions since he did lie before and what he lied about (the porn) and wonder if he could be hiding that, what else could he be hiding in his heart that he could manage to not be truthful with me about?
I'm very very scared to move forward right now and I feel like he is ready to jump right into this, I mean could he be that ready also when we almost just broke up for good or is it more convenience to live together and save money? He says he thinks living together would really help our relationship, but I wonder if I just will be mad and frustrated with him all the time, or if maybe I'll really see that he is a good and honest person. Either way how do I feel comfortable with that before it happens, because I have 2 small children I will not just "experiment" and let it happen just to find out it's not going to work, I would have to feel it was 100% what I wanted and was absolutely without a doubt going to marry this person who I hypothetically would look up to and admire and would respect their person and character and right now I don't feel that way, so what do I do? Please, any advice is welcome.

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I think you've been given some really good feedback,
I just have to say something here. I do think it can easily be taken oerboard (ie no movie where there are pretty women, or kissing scenes, etc, etc.) HOWEVER, my DH and I do not watch R-Rated movies. At all. (Okay, I will fess up to watch Schindler's List when it was on TV, and Saving Private Ryan when it was on TV but I skipped the first 30 minutes of Saving Private Ryan.) We avoid any and all movies with nudity (unless you count butts like in Robin Hood with Kevin Costner). We are hesitant to watch a lot of PG-13 movies because they have overly sexualized a lot of those too. We avoid commercials like the stupid Victoria Secret ones. We do not avoid them because we are scared or anything like that, but because we think sex is special and shouldn't be used for public purposes. So it is possible to find someone with those viewpoints where you aren't repressing them.
Every so often my H will express severe disappointment in a movie being rated R, but it's always some war movie. The instant he finds out there is nudity or sex in a movie his comment is, why'd they have to ruin it? So there are men out there who aren't itching to watch movies with sex scenes or what-not. And he was like this BEFORE I married him. You just have to look hard to find them. And you can't change a man to think that way either.
Jen
Hi everyone,
Sorry I haven't been here, my internet got disconnected temporarily and me and my children are all still trying to recover from being ill, it's taking forever...
Anyway, I guess I have to say that it's really hard to convey sometimes the entire circumstances of a situation.
See with Jen, her DH was like that BEFORE they got married so it's not an issue. I, like Jen went to a conservative school but did not meet anyone who got the same education as I did that I was going to marry, so I'm out in the world with certain mindsets that 95% of the American population is NOT going to agree with. Even a lot of seemingly "respectable" men may not agree with my views. This is where it gets tough.
I know everyone keeps saying "this isn't the right person for you" well then I don't know if there is a "right" person for me because I am sure there might be some issue someone else and I might not agree on either.
Aisha, you said you had a problem with binge drinking - you asked him to change, he did right?
I just want to point out some other factors in our relationship. For the most part of our relationship, we are getting more in sync with each other. I am not asking him to change his personality, I'm even sticking to something he himself had said at one point that porn does not belong in a healthy relationship. We are best friends, talk about anything and everything, all activities that one of us likes, the other almost always likes so we end up doing everything together. We have so many similarities too, both good and bad. We feel like we learn from each other, some of the things we're not very good at, we try to work on. We think alike. We are getting so much better at trying to talk about serious issues, talking about our goals and priorities, talking about our purpose, our children, talking about our values and things that are most important. Even since I wrote that post I talked to him about what I was thinking and we had a very open discussion about it and he doesn't get upset or bothered or on the defensive anymore. I really believe him when he's telling me things now and I do trust that he's not looking at porn.
Some people might say it's about control or jealousy or whatever. Yes I can be jealous but I'm not to that point. It's more where I stand on sexuality in the media and how I am sick and tired of it. I won't go into my shpeel but we are exposed little by little by little until we are relatively unaffected and so it takes larger doses to produce a shock factor or a larger audience. Unfortunately it's modern America and I can't do much to change that but I can have a different world in my own home. It's not so much that I'm controlling him but would like him to understand where I'm coming from. And my past may have something to do with it, but I know a lot of it is more where my values lie. I feel like this is a respect issue and most people would not understand that. This is really the only rift that lies between us. And after speaking with him the other night, I feel even more comfortable about it now and where he stands and the direction I think he is moving. And I don't think I'm driving him away, I don't bring it up all the time, I think he's moving in that direction not just for me but also because he wants to and because he loves me and that hopefully he is beginning to see my point of view, not because I'm forcing him to change.
This is more referring to noregretsever's post but I don't believe there's tension that is being caused where I'm forcing him to change. He's becoming more understanding about it, he doesn't get mad or anything and is very kind about reassuring me, if it's even ever necessary anymore. There is no resentment, at least that I see. I know he loves me and if there came a point where I felt like he was resistant to me asking this and he remained that way then I would not stay with him if he was ok with it. But he himself stated that he didn't think "porn" should be present in a healthy relationship, so it's not anymore and he was also of that opinion but was habituated unfortunately to it to a degree but no more and I do believe that it won't be a problem again. As for your own opinions on the subject, if he were to be in agreement with the way you think then it wouldn't be reasonable for me to ever ask or expect him to change, nor would I remain with him or anyone else that would stay like that, and I would rather be alone than deal with that. But as far as it going into other things or shows, or whatever, he actually agrees with me that a lot of men are pigs (even in his own words), and from what our discussions have been like, I am even still after a year coming to understand him better and how he thinks and when he tells me he doesn't seek that stuff out or choose to watch it, I believe him. Even he said that if I saw everything he watched or if I lived with him, that I would know this and I don't think he's lying or just trying to make me feel better.
As far as 2nd life's comments, I am moving slowly, I just want you to know that. I am in no hurry right now, I promise. Yes we have had a lot of problems this past year but I really feel like things are improving a great deal which is why I haven't been on here as much. We are getting along so well, communication is improving, we are trying to have "productive" arguments (actually we are trying to figure out how to communicate about serious issues without getting to the point of arguing), we have really been just enjoying each other's company and being forthright and also both of us have been putting forth a lot of effort for the other person. Things are getting so much more balanced. There has been a long-standing understanding that we have wanted to end up together. That never changed. As far as breaking up, the only thing I can say is that he is a bit of a drama queen and hates conflict so when we've argued about things he tends to just want to escape it and not deal with it and I believe he was doing that by saying he wanted to break up, but I truly believe he never had any intention of doing that. I have have poured my heart out to him during that time and told him I didn't want him to go, but eventually I was leaving him alone and telling him if that was what he wanted then to just go and let me get on with me life (he was kind of keeping me hanging by still calling and talking to me sometimes). One discussion we had recently was about exactly that (his escapism) and that it really just feels easier for him to just say "let's break up" or have one of us leave rather than try to work through it and that I can't have someone doing that to me anymore. I told him that what happens if we ever made the mistake of moving in together and we (heaven forbid) have an argument and all of a sudden he wants to break up or have one of us leave. I told him it won't be like that. I know his past relationship had NO communication probably because he was like this becuase he has avoided it like the plague, but he has gotten SO much better at communicating and talking and not over-reacting.
Plus, I know he loves me and how much he loves me. Sometimes I even feel like it's his own insecurity sometimes that feels like he wants to end it because sometimes I feel like he's afraid I'll eventually leave him. He doesn't see the same person I see when he looks in the mirror, just like I may not see the person he sees in me when I look in the mirror, but a lot of people I talk to that know him that I haven't known, I sometimes hear about how much he does care and sometimes I feel like he's afraid to let me know that so he can feel more in control.
I'm not rushing anything, but we have always wanted to end up together. I have never not wanted to end up with him, but I am proceeding with caution and thought we would go slowly, that's why he caught me off guard when he talked about moving in together and I got extremely cold feet, so I know I'm not ready.
But as it stands right now I do feel like we're making progress and have made a lot of progress and I think we will continue to. I guess some people just fall into sync with one another, we've had to work at it a little bit but I feel like we're getting there, is that not a good thing?
Edited 2/24/2006 2:44 pm ET by quirky_girl
Edited 2/24/2006 2:53 pm ET by quirky_girl
Observer here - why do I get the idea that you’re not even remotely aware of the inconsistencies in what you say? Your posts clearly demonstrate an issue or situation, but when it's pointed out as being a problem, you insist that’s not the case.
I wonder, why do you repeatedly come back to this board for opinions? Never has anyone agreed with you or suggested this is the right thing, yet back you come again and again for more of the same. There's an expression, “you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink”, in this case the horse is asking for water but refuses it when led to it.
Aren’t you even remotely concerned that every single responder thinks this is a bad relationship? All these people are telling you the same thing, all of them, doesn't that tell you something? It’s your choice what you do and how you live, but why keep asking for opinions you know are going to be against what you want them to be?
<> No honey, there is nothing good about your relationship.
<>
~~IMO, that's a total cop-out. There is someone out there who would agree with you but you would rather not be alone and get this guy to see it your way then you would find someone who actually fits with you to begin with. With my DH it was this way when we met. I didn't have to change him and he didn't have to change to be this way.
With Aisha and her man and the binge drinking, she didn't ask him to change. She decided she could accept it and he decided he would change it to a degree for her. There wasn't a "I don't approve of this, you need to change..."
I also don't get why you come and say such and such is an issue and then when we address it, you get defensive and tell us we don't get it and it's not an issue. Thinking the media is over-sexed is fine, I think that. It's the way you are handling that that is an issue. But if your relationship is so good and he's working so hard to come around, then WHY do you need a problem solving board?
Jen
>>Aisha, you said you had a problem with binge drinking - you asked him to change, he did right?<<
Quirky, you need to get your eyes checked LOL
What I wrote was "In my case, it was the issue of binge drinking when I met my DH. I'm very happy to share a bottle of wine over dinner or at a party, but I don't like being around someone who's so drunk that they don't have full control over their actions. He realised very early on that his binge drinking would be a deal breaker for me and he promptly changed his ways. I didn't ask him to do so, he just made the decision by himself."
Let me reiterate the last sentence. I DID NOT ASK HIM TO CHANGE. My DH lost a lovely girlfriend a number of years ago because of his binge drinking. And when he saw I also had problems with his drinking, he made the decision to change. He had the realisation that I would be likely to leave if it continued so he put steps in place before it came to that point. He still gets far too merry at the odd work Xmas party, and I HATE waiting and hoping that he'll get home in one piece, but I say nothing because it's a small price to pay for compromise and what he's given me.
(Mind you, we're getting a new sofa soon and I think I may ask him to sleep on it when he's had a skinfull. He comes home smelling of beer and is restless ALL NIGHT when he's had too many)
Edited 2/24/2006 5:04 pm ET by iv_aisha2004
Sorry Aisha, my mistake, I was just skimming through since I haven't been here so I didn't read all posts in depth.
I came to the board because I hadn't brought the issue up with him, I came here instead. My internet went down that night and I decided to bring it up with him. It went smoothly and he wasn't getting defensive, he assured me of what he does, what kind of person he is, that I don't have to worry and that there are a lot of other better things that he does watch. I believe him.
I guess I don't know why I come here either since everyone is telling me to move on. Anyone ever hear that it's easier to give advice than it is to take it? Especially when you love someone, and esp when you see things greatly improving. He's more thoughtful these days, more generous, and instead of being a clueless guy, I think he's really made an effort to change that and I haven't been saying anything. He's been helping out with our kids more, offering to do things and be helpful... He's been very sweet, paying for a lot of stuff, was very sick on Valentine's Day (chills, clammy, etc.) and bent over backwards trying to set up this whole romantic night for us which was supposed to take place OUTSIDE by a fire in a park but we couldn't get in the park and since he was sick I told him let's go inside...things are changing for the better because we are both trying harder than ever before. So it's coming down to this one issue that I think kind of messed things up to begin with and set us down this path. I'm not trying to be defensive, I am just coming from a different position now that I've spoken to him about it.
Oh well. My life, my decisions right? I don't think I'm being stupid right now or do all of you think I am? I don't think I'm rushing anything here...
Maybe I'll be back in a few months to let you all know how things are going but for right now they are going well. I would hate to misjudge the guy if he is being completely honest and forthright with me and I'm just being paranoid.
We've come through a lot of very tough times but I really think we're going to make it.
I know you don't see it, but you do refute every problem that you cite in your responses.
It's great that he assures you of what he does and what kind of person he is, but his actions say differently.
Being nice to each other (trying harder) is great but will do nothing to change the very huge differences in your beliefs, morals and values.
Those don't change no matter how nice you are.
"Moving slowly" and worrying about marrying him are opposing statements.
Yep, it's your life, you choice. You asked for thoughts and got them, not any different from what you've gotten in the past, even with some new faces in the mix. Best of luck, Quirky.
~ cl-2nd_life"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Hi everyone,
I just wanted to say...I know I'm pulling up a very old post from a couple of weeks ago and everyone is saying the same thing, however the reason I come back with the reaction I think is because I was looking for someone to give me a way to work through things without the ultimatum everyone seems to want me to give.
As far as values, beliefs, morals, etc., I know that I am a minority where society is concerned in my views. Even my x who had a lot of the same views as myself, even he couldn't understand my viewpoint at times, or my sensitivity.
Taking that into consideration, I know that my background and education play a huge part in that and after talking at length to my bf about this I don't know that we may be so far off from seeing things the same way. As far as the DVD went there wasn't anything in the main part of the tape at all that bothered me. It was in the bonus features that he said he never even saw. I don't even remember what else I referred to, maybe something about the channels but after talking to him I think the main problem is this - because of the porn issue (and 2nd life you did imply that because of that it spread like a disease on my rosy view of him) that I truly did begin looking at him in a different way and considered everything he did to not be so innocent anymore and I think this is the problem. Because of my hyped up oversensitivity and because he is coming from a different social acceptance viewpoint, it's hard to find a comfortable spot. I have to say that sometimes I do go looking for things when I may not have cause to...what I mean is even the channels he watches, there are a lot of shows that are completely innocent on them that he would be watching because of his interests in things like computers, cars, music, etc., but because they have other shows on them at other times that I would NEVER approve of him watching, I become afraid because of the porn issue that he may be viewing those because he is a pig just like the porn showed, right?
Well, I have been talking to him and he has told me that he doesn't watch shows like that, that he never did. I'm not excusing him but I am even understanding more of why he turned to porn to begin with before. I recently learned, in addition to the fact that his x didn't want to have sex often, she would not have sex while she was pregnant at all. And then after that it would be months on end. Then closer to the end of their relationship, they only had sex to try to conceive then she did and again sex became "off limits". I'm not saying that he's excused from his behavior but I have become more sympathetic to why he would have gotten into it or depended on it and I sincerely believe him without a doubt that he no longer uses it. Was it a bad habit that he continued and lied to me about for a while during our relationship? Yes, but I truly believe he will not return to it.
I have another thing to add is that for the most part this man has been around a great many people who have had little to no spirituality in their lives. One thing that he remembers and talks about was going through a program through his Church that he really liked and felt at home in. But no one, not even his family are people that seem to value spirituality or the greater things in life. Now I'm not saying that my purpose is to somehow "save" him but I do think this is something he appreciates about me and is taking his own initiative to try and take things more seriously where morals and beliefs are concerned. I don't think I would be the person I am today with the beliefs I have if it weren't for the education I had and some of the people I met along the way and he's never had an opportunity like that. Do I think that I would be more like him, his views and beliefs if it weren't for my education? Absolutely, my family sure never taught them to me. But I do believe and it's not something I've forced on him at all by any means, that he wants to grow to appreciate that more, to have stronger beliefs, and he's becoming more aware of the good or bad things in our society (yes sometimes it might be my oversensitivity that begins to rage about the oversexualized commercials every 5 min. or the fact that you can't watch a movie without naked women) but even when it comes to other things too. I suppose I'm making him think about things and his reasons for doing things or not doing them and I believe he truly wants that for himself. He wants to be someone I admire and respect by expounding on the good things about himself. I actually can see even how happy he is when he knows I am proud of him, he wants to be that man for me and I don't think he's doing it out of force or is growing resentful of me for making him change in anyway. The things that we might possibly be weeding out are such petty things that if he did choose them over me then I would know what his character stood for and it wouldn't be anything noble.
Anyway, I just wanted to come back and say some of these things because I do want to keep posting here without everyone just saying to "move on" because it's just not going to happen. We might be like two bulls going head to head about things but no matter what we don't give up. We're not together by default, we know what's out there and we don't want anyone else. The funny thing sometimes is that I feel like this - with my x, I felt like for the most part, I liked him, I liked his personality, his values, etc. etc, but eventually found that I just felt like I didn't love him and wasn't sure I ever did and felt like I married him because he met my "criteria". With my bf, at times (and I'm not saying all the time) I don't like him and his personality, but I love him, I love him so much that I can't wait to see him again. Even if we were fighting, we both just want to say sorry and let it be done with because we want to be together, and we do say sorry - often. I never learned to be someone to say sorry in my last relationship and for some reason my stubborness doesn't hold on so tight this time around. Same for him, he is quick to apologize and not only that but even about the porn, lately he has been more apologetic about it than he ever was when I was drilling him. I don't know why I think he just knows what a huge toll it took on our relationship.
Anyway, just thought I'd come back and add all that. 'night all.
>>Anyway, I just wanted to come back and say some of these things because I do want to keep posting here without everyone just saying to "move on" because it's just not going to happen.<<
Sweetie, if you want us to stop telling you to move on, then perhaps you need to learn to deal with issues without our help. The whole reason that nobody here gives you ways to work through things is because nobody here believes that your situation is workable. Besides the fact that I doubt any poster sees viable solutions.
>>The things that we might possibly be weeding out are such petty things that if he did choose them over me then I would know what his character stood for and it wouldn't be anything noble.<<
Quirky, listen to yourself! You're at risk of sounding extremely arrogant. First of all, the things you are working at changing on him are not petty. If you truly thought they were petty, then you wouldn't have been so distressed about them. Second, dismissing parts of his character as petty is just downright rude. Third, moulding a man into who you want him to be is NOT noble on your part. If you want him to join you in nobility, then perhaps you need to start moulding yourself into a more tolerant person first.
I'm sorry hon, but while ever you still feel the need to try to mould and change him, I will never advise you to stay in the relationship. If he can only gain your admiration and respect by changing he should not be with you. It's just not fair on him.
Edited 3/12/2006 12:17 am ET by iv_aisha2004
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