need help making sense of my life
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| Wed, 03-29-2006 - 1:55am |
So my story is confusing but i will try to make it as simple as possible.... About 4 months ago everything i thought i knew changed... It started when in the middle of moving to a new state i went to my hometown to visit family and i decided to look up old friend. we dated over 10 years ago but nothing serious and have been strictly very close platonic friends ever since. I really considered him one of my best friends. I will call him OS. One evening OS told me that he has always loved me. I was shocked i didnt believe him at 1st. I told him i was happily married (which I was at the time). We talked and decided that we would remain friends because he wanted me to be happy. In fact i was planning to return over the holidays to introduce him to my husband.
So soon after i moved to my new home several states away and waited for my H to join me (he is in the military). During the wait me and H got into increasing fights over everything...money, what home to rent, he accused me of cheating over a year ago (completley unfounded) Then one day my H called me a told me that he didnt think that we were compatible any more. I was completely blindsided. He stated his reasons as being among other things that i have not lost the weight i gained (15lbs), i wasnt a good housekeeper so we wouldnt be able to properly raise children, i waste all of our money, and he has had continuous doubts about my fidelity. Then he stated that he did not want to talk about it did not know when he would be moving in. he also decided that he was not planning on going with me to my families for holidays. so after deciding that working on our relationship was hopeless i went home alone... I spent Christmas and New years without my H. of course i had been talking to OS off and on so he knew what was going on. in the meantime OS had started dating someone pretty seriously.
Long story short one night i got really drunk out with OS his girlfriend and some friends...and when OS took me home I came on to him...pretty aggressively from what i am told because i truthfully do not remember much. Be the true friend that he is, OS turned me down stating that he wanted me to be sure of what i was doing. the next day when OS was telling me what i had done. i told him that i was now perfectly sober and sure of what i wanted. OS and I got a chance to be alone together twice before i left and it was really nice.
But eventually i had to return to my new home, new job and old H. When i returned H & I fought everytime we talked and ignored each other the rest of the time. I was really hurt I found out that he had spent Christmas in another city at a hotel. He said alone but i doubt it. I also found a condom in his closet (not used) that moved to his jeans and then dissapeared. We have slept in separate beds for the past 3 months and i was so depressed i entered counseling. H also refused marriage couseling or reading self help books
I still talk to OS but not as often and our conversations have returned to safe topics. i feel that he is waiting to see what happens. OS is still dating his girlfriend but says it is not serious although they live together. My H has recently started to try and rebuild the relatiosnhip. He says i am to blame for the fight lasting so long, because he has apoligized but i refuse to let go. i say it is hard to act like normal when i dont feel that way and pretending seems so fake. We even slept in the same bed for about 4-5 days until we had sex. I cried afterwards. I tried to explain that it feels as if we will just pretend that there is no problem but it will still be there underneath everything.
So i guess i am looking for understanding and someone to help me make sense out of all my feelings. Should i try harder to work things out with H? How do i stop thinking about OS and what could have been? Still could be? Was it fate that OS decided to tell me his feelings literally weeks before my H lost his mind? Would i be more willing to work things out with H if i hadnt spent the time with OS? Is it possible to love two men that are completely opposites? I feel as if i have to choose between two roads each with pros and cons but very different. Any suggestions? I hope my ramblings make since.
Thanks for listening

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Your husband first: I assume you've had problems all along, right? It's certainly possible to happen that way, but it's most likely that the accusations and blame he hit you with weren't new topics for him. If he honestly used a 15 pound weight gain as a reason to end your marriage, quite frankly, he's not worth your time anyway -- you'll never be able to maintain to his expectations. You're right, pretending the problem doesn't exist, avoiding it and trying to go along as though none of it ever happened won't work. You experienced that when you had sex with him. It sounds like he has problems with you (real or made up) the he throws at you (more like an excuse to stay out and play before coming home). You have suspicions and concerns (you doubt he spent Christmas alone, and the condom) but it doesn't sound like they're voiced to him. You ask if you should try harder to work things out with your husband, but you can only do your share of the work in repairing/rebuilding your marriage. From what you've said, your husband's way of dealing with issues is to pretend they don't exist. That's not doing any work to repair/rebuild, it's avoiding and making things worse. You said he isn't interested in getting professional help (couples counseling) either. A marriage is two people, each responsible for their share of the relationship; it takes both to maintain it and both to rebuild it. You can't do all the work yourself; he has to be willing to do his half of the work, you can't do it for him. Is this a relationship you want to continue? I don't hear that there's much there -- little/poor communication, lack of trust, respect or partnership. How long have you been married? While you haven't said anything that speaks well of your husband or indicates he's willing to put any real effort into your marriage, I have to remind you that as long as you stay in contact with your "friend" you're not focusing on your marriage. You're keeping the focus off your marriage and giving yourself every reason to feel that a relationship with someone other than your husband would be better. You can't work on your marriage if you've got someone else in the picture. Even if you're only talking about "safe topics" your motive is not "safe". You need to cut ties until you get this worked out, and you need to work this out without your friend being a part of any plan you have.
The friend: Big concerns there too. He's living with a girl but says it isn't serious? Does she know it's not serious? Honestly, that doesn't say good things about him, or his ethics. If he isn't serious about her, he shouldn't be living with her and he should certainly be honest with her about his real feelings. You say your friend is a "complete opposite" of your husband. Big old warning sign there. You demonstrate doing what a good number of people do after being in a bad relationship - choosing the "polar opposite" in guy #2. Polar opposite is someone who has a gross load of whatever it is you were most craving and was most lacking in your marriage. You're going to soak up whatever that is in guy #2 until you're filled up with the stuff you were so deplete of and then you're going to want to push yourself away from the table (so to speak) and say, "enough". But... guy #2 isn't going to stop giving you that same massive amount because that's who he is -- a guy with an overabundance of the stuff your husband was lacking in. It sounds awful, cold, heartless and calculating, but it's true; once you've got what you needed from him it's time to move on. Think of it on a balance scale -- the kind that the blindfolded "Lady Justice" holds. When you met him the scale was unbalanced, your "need" was at the top, completely empty. As time when on with him you became filled with it and now that side of the scale is at the bottom. What you need in a relationship is balance -- both sides of the scale equal. Does that make sense? I hope you keep it in mind, it's why the first relationship after a break up is commonly called "rebound" and why it doesn't last. You're attracted to traits that you're hungry for, but, in the end the guy who demonstrates the most of those traits (and is the most desirable) is too much and the relationship ends.
Most importantly is this: You say, "I feel as if i have to choose between two roads each with pros and cons but very different." It's very important for you to know that you need to stop *deciding* which road to take. You don't end one relationship by jumping into another. If you do, you're leaving relationship #1 for the wrong reasons and you're jumping into relationship #2 for the wrong reasons. This is not an either/or situation. You need to leave guy #2 completely out of the picture. Pretend he doesn't exist. Now, with that in mind what do you want to do about your marriage? Do you want to stay or go? Leaving your marriage means being on your own, period. When you end a marriage or long term relationship it's very important to spend a good amount of time on your own (six months to a year), no men. Every relationship changes you and shapes you to some extent. I'm sure you'd agree that you are not the same person you were when you married your husband, right? In ending the relationship you'll need time to be on your own, with yourself to find out who you are now, you'll need the time not only to to regain your sense of self, but also to find your independence and your self-esteem and self worth. It's very important. How can you choose a relationship that's a good fit for you if you haven't taken the time to find out who you are? If you bail from your marriage and dive in with guy #2 you'll be molding yourself to a fit another without having taken the time to find out who you are, what you want. You'll be setting yourself up for failure and unhappiness. Did you know the majority of divorced people remarry before they've been divorced for a full year? Do you also know that most second marriages fail -- and fail faster than the first? Guess why -- they dove in without taking the time to know themselves and from that, know what they want, what's the best fit for them. You need to plan to be on your own, and with that in mind decide what you want for you. If you jump from one to another, I suspect it will be done for security (emotional, financial or both) and it will set you up for failure and more heartache and sadness down the road. Leave guy #2 out of this. If you do divorce, keep him at arms length, avoid contact (even email) for a good six months. After that time, if he's available (not living with someone) start dating. You may be amazed to find he's not nearly as great for you as you'd thought before. Clarity will do that for you. Keep your head straight, Manwil, focus where you need to be focused, leave the rest alone.
~ cl-2nd_life"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Thanks so much for your reply SO much of what you said are things that i have already told myself but have a hard time following through on...
First my Husband and marriage: We have been married for 5 years no kids...many of the things that he used as "reasons" are things I had heard before at one time or another, but either did not think that it was "that serious" or that we has already resolved the issue. I think the problem was that in the past we had used my H was of solving arguement - pretending it wasnt there and going on with out lives--- which is why i am so determined not to let it happen this time. my H says now that the weight isnt that important but he brought it into the conversation and now i feel that he really feels that way no matter what he says.. either way it keeps repeating in my head. I am planning to ask for counseling again and really ask him to do some explaining although when i have before he says he cant understand why i am so stuck in the past.
second my friend- OS: OS and I have been friends for over 10 years, so he has always been around but he jsut revealed his feelings like the month before things started to go downhill with H. I know that this changed our relationship or else i wouldnt have had the reaction i did when i returned home and was very vulnerable. I know that I need to seperate my thoughts and make my decision without him being a factor. I actually have never picture OS and myself as a couple before this because i am very aware of the things that i wouldnt like in him as a boyfriend. However i know that if I became single OS would be around... it just seems inevitable (sp?) i cant imagine us as a long term couple so dont think i am having those sort of fantasies... it would definately be very rebound which isnt fair to him, if his feelings for me are as deep as he claims. Also I feel horrible about his live in girl friend... he Says that they have talked and that he has told he he doens want a serious relationship and isnt looking for anything long term in their relationship... I told him that as a woman i think that it is likely that she is feels very differently and is hoping that he will change his mind after living with her for a while.... he is a man and i dont know if he really gets how women think.
So I know that i should try to remove him form my life while i figure out my relationship. That said it is hard to do... he has been a constant figure in my life in one way or another for 10 yrs. I have decided however that if my H and I go into counseling i will cut off contact with OS for as long as counseling lasts. I am really working on figuring out what i want/need from a relationship. but i am very confused at this point.
again thanks for responding
It's always nice when you hear from others what you already *knew* yourself, isn't it? It's always good to know you were on the right track to begin with.
I have to tell you, Manwil, I have some real concerns about your husband. He used your weight as a reason for ending your marriage. To go from that to "it really isn't a problem" says it never really was a problem, but he was using it as an excuse for a divorce??? At the least he was saying something he knew was hurtful; to do that is heartless, disrespectful and incredibly cold and uncaring. Something I'm wondering is that you say the things he brought up as problems have been brought up before. He calls attention to these problems but then refuses to address them? So basically, he complains and throws criticism at you, but doesn't want to take any steps to resolve the problem? You said when you ask him to explain himself he says he doesn't understand why you're so stuck in the past. Tell him you're "stuck in the past" because there is no resolution; the problems aren't resolved, they just pile up. You said in the past he's used ignoring the problem as the way to resolve them. It isn't that this is the way he's chosen to deal with problems the last few times, this is the way he deals with problems, period. And unless he's willing to resolve them a different way you're not going to be very successful in forcing him into working in ways he does not want to work. That's a big problem. His refusing to seek help is a problem too. I know you plan to ask him again, do you think he'll be willing to go? I know I've only heard a little bit about him, but honestly, Manwil, he doesn't sound very nice. Add to that the fact that you suspect he's fooled around on at least two occasions in the recent past and I'm not seeing a lot of reason to work on this marriage. You've been married for five years, how long has it been like this?
As far as your friend goes, it's good that you recognize what you wouldn't like about a relationship with him, and I can guarantee there are more things you wouldn't like that you don't even realize. That aside, I'm sure you also know that thinking about your marriage clearly is a little less possible when you know you'd have a romantic shoulder to lean on, whether you think it would be a permanent thing or not. It may be hard to consider staying out of contact with him, but as long as you're trying to resolve problems in your marriage, you need to stay out of contact; just staying out of contact as long as you're working with a counselor isn't enough. You either give your marriage an honest attempt or you don't, going halfway is a wasted effort, IMO.
~ cl-2nd_life"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Cl-2nd
Thanks again... i think the thing that confuses me the most is that this whole episode was a completely new side of my H that i had never seen before... I say that many of the things had come up before, for example i knew he wanted to lose weight and i was working on it not always 100% committed I admit but i didnt think it was a Deal breaker... now he says it wasnt ever a deal breaker he just prefers me the other way.. well duh so do i? he says that the whole extreme thing was his way of getting my attention because he felt he had tried to get me to change things that were bothering him before but i didnt take him serious.. he say he now realizes that this was not the best way to go about it.
But now he has stopped talking about any of the issues that he had originally and is acting like I am holding us back.. which i guess in some ways I am but only because I think it is the only way to go from here... I want all issues out on the table and plans to address them. his issues and mine... of which i have a few things that i hadnt liked about oout relationship before, but i wasnt planning on divorce over it..
I worry to that he is not interested in seeking therapy. I really dont have much hope that he will agree.. I feel like it should be a requirement for moving forward but am wary of making such an ultimatum because I feel that it wont work. and ultimately I am afraid of leaving my marriage. Especially since this behavior is brand new... i keep thinking maybe its just a one time thing we will look back when were 80 and laugh...But we have to get there first.
About my friend I convince myself about once an hour to end contact with him... regardless of the fact that i talk to about twice a week. I KNOW that it is interfering with my ability to think clearly about my marriage.. I know that... When i said no contact while in therapy i meant it to mean for as long as H and I were repairing our marriage. Before these changes I didnt really talk to OS regularly just randomly whenever i thought of looking him up maybe 3-4 times a year. and i was usually the one calling him. but now we talk more often and I feel that i have become almost dependent on it.. And I sometimes think that i will end contact as soon as I get some sense of where H and I our headed. I KNOW that i should end contact regardless until i figure out what I want... and like today I hadnt spoken to him in almost 2 weeks although I have called off and on but i dont normally leave messages or ask him to call me back. so i left a message saying that i hope he was doing well. I told myself that i would not call again... thinking sense i normally call him we wouldnt talk for a while... Of course he called me saying that his phone had been broken and that he had missed me etc... and somehow i ended up agreeing to call him tommorrow. I dont know how that happened i had a speech about how we shouldnt talk all prepared...
anyway i am rambling. dont you hate it when you give people advice they agree with you and then do the exact opposite? I am really working on it but thanks for listening anyway..
manwil
Manwil, I think the problem you're having in breaking off contact is that your husband is giving you all negatives. You're not seeing anything that looks hopeful or positive, he's said awful things that hurt and stick with you (words said can't be taken back, you don't forget what was said to you). Meanwhile, your friend is a positive in your life, a bright spot. It's hard to consider letting go of the happiness to be left facing the negative "all alone" so to speak, with no positive to reach out to for comfort. I can see how that would be very scary.
I assume when you say you've seen things from your husband you've never seen before, you're talking about his call informing you that he didn't think you were going to be able to work it out? You need to know you are not holding your relationship back by wanting to deal with the issues, you must deal with, and resolve issues in order to move forward. If you don't you're just spinning your wheels, staying stuck in the same place. Avoiding them may seem more attractive, but they don't go away, they'll fester and come back up when you're dealing with the next problem you have, until eventually there are too many issues to be resolved. Dealing with and resolving problems is imperative to a relationship.
I absolutely agree that you should not make threats that you aren't willing to carry out. It's game playing and causes you to lose credibility if you're pushed to follow through and don't. In that way it assures you won't be taken seriously next time. It's dangerous in that he may take you up on your threat and take the action you threatened. Unless you're willing to carry through on the action, don't make the threat, ever. I do, however, think it's reasonable to set a time frame in your own mind that you expect to see some changes in. Say, you need to see him working on the issues, being willing address them within three months. In three months you assess the situation for changes and improvement and make your next plan and "check in date" from there. You can create a plan of action and set what you expect to see in the way of improvement as a guide to see that progress is being made and to help you not stay stuck in a dead-end situation forever without making threats or statements to him about it. You can set your own and use it as a guide.
I'm a little concerned that you're continuing to avoid talking about your belief that he was unfaithful to you at least twice. I suspect you're choosing not to look at it because knowing the truth would force an action you're not ready to take.
Tell me the positives about your husband and your marriage. Why did you marry him? Why do you stay? What's good about him?
~ cl-2nd_life"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
cl-2nd life
I think about the possibility that he was unfaithful all the time. That is one of the main reasons why i am unable to move forward. At the same time i dont have any solid proof and I would hate to walk away always doubting myself and my decision. Especiually since I feel like somewhat of a hypocrite (sp?) becasuse of what is going on with my friend. I have tried to talk to H about it and he denies it. He gave no answer when i asked about the condom stating that he doesn't remember having one so he cant comment on why it was there... I think that answer is worse than just lying about it. How can he not remember. I wrote him a letter yesterday saying that it really concerns me that we havent talked about it and that is why i am still distancing myself from him. But he hasnt said anything to me about the letter at all. And he has been acting kind of short with me. from experience i am just going to wait him out because before i would push the issue and he would shut down and refuse to talk at all. That is how we ended up sleeping in seperate bed and living paralell lives.
It is funny you asked me what i liked about my H , my therapist asked me what we used to do together before we fought and I couldnt think of very much. It was kind of depressing. But i know that my H has a great sense of humor, we both are avid readers and enjoy many of the same authors. in the beginning especially we could talk for hours about nothing at all. we have/had similar life goals and desires in the areas of raising a family, how children should be raised, He is/was reliable. we enjoyed watching movies and just hanging out at home. there was a sense of comfort like i had known him for a really long time.
I stay because i feel like this is marriage/man is what i asked for. I wanted a man who wanted children and was interested in being an involved father. someone who would work hard to provide for his family. I feel like that if i leave this marriage i might not get this chance again. I dont belive that there is only one perfect match for me. But i do believe that people can be compatible with multiple people but each match will bring something different to that persons life.. like choosing a path..neither one is worse or better than the other but each will lead you to different places. So i guess I feel like my H is my chance my path for the house, kids, 2 cats and a dog life i wanted and if i leave it i will be taking a different journey. i am almost 30 but do not want to have children after 35... so this might be my only chance... I know it not really reasonable (all my friends and the therapist have told me so) but it is how i feel.
manwil
Your husband is lying to you about the issue on being unfaithful. You know darned well it isn't that he "doesn't remember" the condom, he doesn't want to tell you. I have to assume condoms aren't your method of birth control. If that's the case, he knows very, very clearly why he had the condom, where he got it and what he did with it. Proof or no proof, you know too. The thing about cheating is that if you're expecting him to just tell you, you can forget it, he's not going to admit to it unless you face him with black and white proof that he cheated. When you say you'd hate to walk away always doubting yourself and your decision, are you saying that would be the only reason you'd be leaving?
There are lots of similarities in what you said to my thinking in my first marriage, Manwil. There are lots of things that are not the same too (at least I don't know that your husband is alcoholic and verbally abusive). Like yours, my husband didn't talk about things either, pretending the problems didn't exist was his way of dealing with them as well. I also couldn't think of anything I liked about him when our therapist asked me. I also believed I'd be alone if I left him and also was afraid this would be my only chance to have children (and that if I left if I found someone else it would be too late), that I had chosen the marriage and had an obligation to stay. For those reasons (and others) I stayed. Some times were better than others, we had ups and downs, but never moved forward. Eight years and two kids later, I left. No job, way more responsibility (two kids) and lots older. To my surprise, my fear of being alone forever was far from reality. I was shocked at the number of men who called. I dated more than I ever had before; I had an absolute blast. Seven years later I remarried who is what I want in a partner, rather than being someone I hope will turn into what I want.
I am not saying you should absolutely leave. I am saying I haven't heard you give any reason to stay, and I haven't heard you demonstrate happiness in your relationship. You mentioned what you used to have in common and that you agreed on your feelings on child rearing. At this point I'd ask you, based on what you've experienced from living with this man, is this someone you'd want raising your children? It's easy to say what you think and believe on any subject, but actions are where you know the real person and the real personality. Does what you thought you knew and what you've lived match up? Every relationship has bumps in the road, and I'm certainly not saying as soon as things get tough it's time to bail. The question is, how long have you been having trouble? How long has it been since you've really been happy and satisfied in this marriage? Is this a relationship you'd be happy staying in for the rest of your life? In my first marriage, I knew in my gut within the first six months that marrying him had been a mistake, but I felt, like you've mentioned, that I chose it, had taken vows, and had an obligation to try to make it right. Unfortunately, I as the only one who was really trying. Yeah, he went to counseling, etc. with me, but guess who it was that always was the one who was trying to make it better, look for solutions, etc.? That would be me. He'd go along with what I wanted, but other than criticizing me, never looked to improve our marriage or tried to do anything differently. He followed at my insistence, never looked for change himself. Basically, my unhappiness with the situation was a problem for him. He made it very clear that he was 'sick and tired' of me never being satisfied, happy, etc. My problems with the marriage were a problem to him, not a concern, not a reason to look at what was wrong, but a big pain in the rear.
What I can tell you is this. If his behavior has been the same since close to the beginning of your marriage and if you're not happy or satisfied with it, or the relationship you have with him, staying means staying and being unhappy and dissatisfied. If that's the case, leaving will take you on a different path, it will take you to the likelihood of happiness. Staying guarantees you will not find it, staying guarantees nothing will change.
Best of luck, Manwil. Whether it's with or without your husband, I wish you a life of happiness.
~ cl-2nd_life"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
cl-2nd_life
just wanted to give you an update:
Now to the good part:
So the other day he left and I noticed that his computer was still logged in. It had had trouble logging off because of some error. Anyway i saw that there was a missed instant message from some girl that said "i wish I could see you" so i preceded to get all his passwords and then i signed in as her and waited. eventually she signed on and i started talking to her pretending to be H. She said she missed me and I asked what she missed... She said she missed the sex! and when i asked her to she was specific about what exactly she missed. Then I asked her if she remebered the 1st time and she said of course .... I almost messed up because I said "it was at your house right?" and she said NO! opps!.. But then she reminded that it was his house (MY HOUSE) then i asked her if she could remember the exact date and she said OCT. I dont know if she meant this past oct or the October right after i left because i couldnt figure out how to ask with out making her suspicious.
Anyway I saved the whole thing and am planning to print it out an present it with the divorce papers. BUT 1st I am going wait out the month and see if I can get any more evidence. Because o know he stilltalks on the phone to the girl from his training and i heard on his voice mail a girl that i have never of. That is possibly 3 women! I want to get all the evidence i can so that i can have it all in black and white. then i will aske him about all of them individually and give him a chance to lie to my face again. AND THEN i will present him with my evidence. Watch his face when he sees what i know AND then i will serve him with divorce papers!
The hardest part is waiting I am giving myself the month of April to gather evidence. I am so relieved to have hard evidence because it is hard to convince yourself to leave when you only have your suspicions (sp?) But i surprised myself because i was calm and together through the whole thing.
My mom was right she told me that when you stop crying over a man you know you are ready to leave.
I'm not sure it's a good idea to stay in order to gather more evidence, in fact, I'm pretty sure it's not a good idea or in your best interest. What's to be gained by getting more evidence, what good will it do you? I see nothing but more damage being done to your emotional self by staying in a damaging, negative, hurtful situation and I see only more pain and hurt being added to what you already feel. All negative, nothing positive.
I would also strongly urge you to post this last post on the
Betrayed Spouses Support
(I was going to suggest the Life After Betrayal board, but I see you're already there -- good for you!)
To help you stay o your feet and be aware of roadblocks or problems that might come up, as well as just to get some much needed support from others who are going through the same, I'd suggest visiting:
Surviving Divorce
and
Divorce & Money (tell cl-Firstamendment "hi" for me, she's great!)I'm sending you lots of postive thoughts and wishes for strength and resolve through this. Keep us posted on how you're doing too, we care!
~ cl-2nd_life"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Wow. Were/are you able to hack into his email acocunts? And one option you have is making sure the computer goes with you and having someone who knows about this stuff look at it. It's what my sister did when she left her XH.
Also, do you live in a no-fault state? If you do then no amount of "evidence" you collect will help you. If you don't, talk to a lawyer and ask what would be the best, if you are intent on collecting it.
I am sorry. even if you are ready to leave him, it shouldn't happen this way to you.
Jen
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