New Here - Big Problems in Marriage
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| Sat, 11-12-2005 - 11:16am |
Hello everyone. I'm new here and could use all the advice I can get. My husband and I have been married for 8 years and have two children, his daughter from a previous relationship whom I have raised since she was 10 months old (she's now 10) and our son who is 7. My husband left for Mississippi to work for 3 weeks, I thought it was to get some work experience in his field and try to better himself. Apparently I was wrong, b/c now he says that he left to try to figure out whether or not he still wanted to be married to me. We are high school sweethearts who got married at 19. I thought we had a good marriage...the usual ups and downs, but nothing we couldn't get past. He came home from MS on Friday of last week. The weekend and Monday and Tuesday were wonderful. We made love numerous times and I thought that everything was good. While he was in MS, I was a basketcase, we had never been apart and I didn't handle it well. I tried to be supportive but I couldn't help but cry every time I heard his voice on the phone. He was supposed to be gone for 2+ months, but things didn't work out there and he ended up coming home early. On Wednesday of this week, I could tell something just wasn't right. I finally got him to open up about it, and he told me that he's not sure he wants to be married to me anymore. He isn't sure he's still in love with me. He says that he has felt this way for about 2 years and has just now found the courage to bring this up to me. He says that I bitch at him too much and that I have belittled him over the years to the point that there is a big brick wall between us that he just can't get past. We talked for a long time that night, and he really got everything out. We didn't argue, but a lot of emotions were revealed. I have been living in a fog ever since. I am fully aware that many of the points he made were very valid and my eyes are wide open to my many faults. I have told him that I am willing to do anything and everything that I can to save my marriage. He has a drinking habit and can be very irresponsible and carefee. I have always been the one that has taken charge in our marriage. All of our problems are certainly not my fault, but it has culminated in the fact that he can't get past how I've treated him. The only times in our marriage that he has ever said anything to me before was when he was drinking and got angry. He has always been a very loving husband who has worked very hard to provide for us.
We are going to see a marriage counselor on Tuesday. He says that he doesn't see much hope, but that he is willing to go into it with an open mind. Last night, however, he left his email account open on our computer. When I went to use it, I saw some emails from another woman. These emails were very raunchy and certainly not the type of thing that a married man should be involved in. I confronted him with it, and it turns out that she is a girl that he met when he worked at our local golf course this summer. She moved a long distance away at the end of the summer. He says that nothing happened between them until he looked her up while he was in MS. I believe him. He says that she was refreshing and that he was able to talk to her about me and air his feelings. He says that they have only talked on the phone and via email and that he has never cheated on me. I also believe this.
He has been so confused the past few days, as have I. He doesn't know what he wants. He knows he doesn't want to put the pieces of our marriage back together the way it's been, but isn't sure we can get back on track, or if that's even what he wants. Like I said before, we have been married for 8 years and have two children. We have a house and have been doing well for ourselves. I don't want to lose him. I love him. He says he still loves me but it's just not the same. He wants to make it work, but can't go back to the way things were. We talked for hours last night with no real results. We are going to see the counselor on Tuesday and I want to get some personal counseling as well.
Does anyone have any advice as to how I can save my marriage?

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Hi Cstar,
Counseling is a great start. Realizing there are things you seriously want to change is an AWESOME start too. Honestly, there isn't going to be much you can do outside of improving yourself and counseling and that may not be enough if your DH doesn't want to stay married. And that is something he has to decide without you pushing him. If you push him, it WILL backfire.
As for this email thing, as long as there is another woman involved with your DH (and if he's talking to her and opening up with her like he couldn't do with you, at the VERY least he is having an emotional affair and that is JUST as bad, if not worse IMO, then a physical affair.) But as long as your DH has another woman involved, you aren't going to make the appropriate headway. Your counselor can help you talk about this (and it should be brought up there though I wouldn't bring it up again til you get there). He needs to decide whether or not he's going to be with you. Only after that is it anywhere near allowable to have raunchy emails with a female.
I would also suggest that you get out, find some friends and hobbies, and get to a point where you aren't sobbing while your DH is gone. You need to have a life. I understand missing DH (I've been apart from mine several times) but being a basket case hurts more than it helps.
I wish you TONS of luck! Keep up with the counselor. If your DH has problems try a male counselor. And work on bettering yourself. You do that, and you're doing everything you can to get your marriage back on the right track.
Jen
Jen,
Thank you so much for your advice. It's very helpful to see the things that I'm thinking being written by someone else. DH is out driving around now and doesn't want to come home. We have been very calm in talking about this whole situation with each other. I think counseling is our only prayer...at this point, I really believe that we will end up divorced though. Counseling gives us a chance. At the very least, we need to make this as amicable as possible for our children.
I agree with your advice, and will try not to push him. I know that he needs his time to sort through this. It's hard, but I will move on and do things on my own...I think that's how things are going to be for quite a while for me anyway. DH tells me that he cut off all ties with the other woman, but I don't know what to believe anymore. He says that he will do counseling and I have set the appt up with a male counselor that I think he'll be comfortable with. I hope it helps.
cstar
Cstar,
While you shouldn't push your DH, don't let him walk all over you either. You are allowed to stand up for yourself and have certain guidelines while he's deciding. (Ie, no affairs of any kind.)
I really, really hope that the counseling works well for you and that you two have a happy ending. But if not, know that changing yourself for the better anyway will benefit you in the future. I understand the uncertainty and all that. It sucks. And I understand not wanting to be divorced and potentially not being able to stop that outcome. Something my dad told me this week that a lawyer once told him, you can't plan for a divorce and work on staying married at the same time. If it ever comes to all that, and you still want to stay married if possible, hire a lawyer and let him deal with EVERYTHING in regards to the divorce. You focus on saving your marriage. Good luck!
Jen
I completely agree with everything Jen said. Marriage counseling is great and it's great that he's going in with an open mind, willing to work on the marriage. But, as long as he remains in contact with the other woman, he is not focusing his efforts on the marriage. As long as there is involvement in any way with her, there are three involved in your marriage, not two.
I'm a little confused though, you said, nothing happened between them until he looked her up while he was in MS.but you also said, He says that they have only talked on the phone and via email and that he has never cheated on me. Can you explain? There are two articles in our Information and Resources section that would be good for you to take a look at that will help you see the situation, "even" if he didn't have a physical affair:
Is It Cheating?
Is it just friends or infidelity?
I'd also say he has a fair amount of things to work on himself, alcoholism being one. You also now have good reason to have some trust issues regarding his inappropriate behavior and actions with this other woman. That will need to be addressed as well.
It seems that there are some long-term problems from both of you that need to be addressed. Sometimes, the kind of situation you're in serves as a wake up call to both and it is where working to correct the problems in your marriage and strengthen what's become weak begins. I hope that's the case for you.
I would urge you not to see yourself as the bad guy, as the one who "caused this" but rather see you both feed into each other and you both have problems that lead your situation. I'd also suggest that his being unhappy for two years and not mentioning it until he's ready to call it quits (though I'm not at all buying that his statement is true) is lousy. How can you even try to resolve a problem you don't know exists? How can he dare to blame you when he's said nothing for so long? Gimme a break, that's just crap. I would also not be surprised if part of the reason he's come out hitting so hard (throwing serious concerns and serious blame at you) is not only to keep the focus on you and away from the affair (physical or not, it's still an affair), and to soothe his guilt over seeing someone else, but also to avoid taking blame and responsibility for his alcohol addiction. If you're busy taking the blame for being a shrew and your marriage is on the line as a result, you're hardly in a position to complain about anything he does. It's all very weak and predictable, though I know it doesn't feel like either of those things to you.
I would also urge you to take Jen's advice on getting out and doing things so that you're not so dependant on your husband's presence. Whether you stay together or not, being more independent and self-assured is very important.
One question. You said you've raised his daughter since she was ten months old and also said you were married at 19. I understand this child was conceived before you were married, but was she conceived before you were dating?
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Thank you for replying, Jen and cl-2nd life. It has been a very rough and emotional couple of days and having some outside support is very helpful...especially until we get to counseling on Tuesday. I have been able to talk to my mom and a friend about this, and they have been very supportive. The also know and love my DH, so it makes it hard for them. Have an unbiased opinion really helps.
My DH promised me that he has cut off all ties with the other woman. We live in Wisconsin and she moved to North Carolina at the end of the summer, so phone and email are the only ways he can contact her. I have no choice at this point but to believe what he tells me. He has also said that he is going to curb his drinking while we try to work this out. He drove around for hours last night and it didn't seem like he had anything to drink. He ended up sleeping on the couch last night, though. This is eating him up inside, and that really hurts me. Neither of us has been able to eat or sleep much at all.
In all fairness to my husband, the problem with me bitching and "belittling" him all the time has been brought up before, but only when he's been drinking and has gotten angry with me for one reason or another. I have tried to be better, but then it seems like all of the stresses of life get in the way and he's drinking again or not living up to his responsibilities around the house and with the kids the way I think he should, and I slip right back in to my old habits. He says that this other woman is not the root of the problem, but was probably a catalyst in making it happen right now. I have told him that I am more than willing, and actually want to, get personal counseling for myself to work through these issues. He says that he doesn't know if he can stay because he will be waiting for the other shoe to drop again and that I'll go back to my old ways. I am very determined to make this marriage work. I think that with counseling and serious self-discovery, we can do just that. He's not sure, but he is willing to try the counseling. We have a lot to lose if we can't stay together, and I just pray that he thinks of that as well.
Overall, our marriage has been good. Even now, he says that I am his best friend. He says that although no one else scares him, it scared him to bring these issues up to me in the past. That hurts, A LOT. It really makes me realize that I have many faults as his wife. I am not dismissing his faults, either, but he is the one that wants out right now and I am so cold with fear over that. I don't know what I would do without him. He is my best friend and has always been caring and thoughtful and loving. As I said before, he does have a drinking problem, but he doesn't think that he needs help with that. But his drinking has been at the root of the majority of our fights over the years.
As for your confusion over the other woman...he says that nothing happened while he was working with her at the golf course this summer. The guy he was with in MS had her phone number and he started contacting her then. Again, I really have no choice but to believe him about this. He is being honest about his feelings on everything right now and it's all out on the table, I don't think he would lie about it now. I realize that this is emotional cheating, but I feel as though I have pushed him to this point and still believe in my heart that we can work through all of these issues with the help of a counselor. I truly hope that this will be the rock bottom point of our marriage and that we can put the pieces of the puzzle back together in a way that will make both of us happy. I don't know if that can happen, but I am willing to give it my all.
I fully plan to take Jen's advice and get out and do my own thing. At this point, DH is trying to sort through things and isn't taking much responsibility at home. For now at least, the kids are my responsibility. I have to worry about them first and foremost. I do have a wonderful support system, though, and my mom is more than willing to help me with them and always has been. DH has always said that I don't do enough on my own, outside of our home. I know he's right, but that's hard to do when you have a bunch of responsibilities to deal with as well. I am going to do it, though. As much as these problems are about him and his feelings, you guys are right. I need to think about myself as well and how I can better myself so I can hold myself together if this doesn't work out.
As for his daughter, she was not conceived while we were dating. She was born shortly after my DH moved to my high school in the middle of our junior year. I knew about her from the start. It was never an issue for me. I have loved her as my own since day one. She hasn't seen her bio mother in over 8 years. This is also a very scary situation for me, because I don't have any legal rights to her. DH swears that he would never take her away from me, it would hurt her terribly. We are very close, and although she does know that she has another mom out there somewhere, I am the only one that she has ever known.
Again, thank you so much for your support. This is a terrible time in my life. I've been told many times that God only gives you as much as you can handle. I hope that this is his way of making us both realize what we have to lose if we don't pull it together and start focusing on the needs of ourselves as a couple. Maybe in the end, we will come out of this a stronger and happier couple, as well as stronger individuals who value the good things in our lives that much more.
.emily.
My question about his involvement was because it sounded like while he hadn't "done anything" while she was there last summer, there seemed to be a definite statement about last summer alone, as though it did not apply to MS over the last month. I assume from what you're saying, he had no face-to-face contact with her while he was working away from home? Honestly, if I were you and he hadn't told me flat out that there'd been no face-to-face meeting with her since she moved to NC last summer, I'd ask him that specific question. I may be off, but your response reads like an answer he gave you that purposely seems to say one thing but actually evades the truth. I've learned that sometimes if you want specific, direct answers you have to ask specific, direct questions, especially if you're not sure of the answer that was given.
Please don't beat yourself up too much, Cstar. You may have been bitchy to him, but I'm guessing he may not always be a real treat to live with; people with drinking problems rarely are. I'm guessing some of your bitchiness is likely due to frustrations, disappointments, etc. due to his drinking. I'd bet one way or another, you're not just attacking him, this innocent guy, for no reason. It's a vicious circle that you each have blame and a part in. And while it's great that he didn't drink while he drove around last night, you know better than to think that's an indication his drinking will end. It's great that he says he'll cut down on his drinking, but cutting down doesn't work for alcoholics, he'll have to stop altogether and he'll need real help (AA, a treatment program, etc.) to do that. My ex-husband was a functioning alcoholic too, I'm well versed in "cutting down" and "not having a problem". However, when it continues to be a problem, obviously there IS a problem. The myth that alcoholics have to need a drink every day allows lots of functioning alcoholics to deny and avoid reality and hide behind the fact that they can go days and weeks between drinks. Be sure your counselor is aware of his drinking, it's important.
You also mentioned that you have to trust your husband as far as contact with this woman is concerned, that's true to an extent, but your husband should also be completely open and honest with you -- his life should be an open book. You should not be expected to blindly trust him, clearly, you did that before and you shouldn't have! He should provide you with his email and voicemail passwords, his cell phone and credit card statements, etc, everything there is so you can see for yourself that there is no contact. The onus is on him to prove himself faithful, it's not yours to try to blindly believe. It won't happen that way. Asking and expecting these things from him isn't out of line or out of the ordinary in situations like this. Here are a few articles on infidelity:
Getting Over an Affair
Healing From Infidelity
Recurring Memories of Spouses Affair
While they may exactly describe your situation, you'll be able to understand the dynamics at play, what goes into healing and will get a lot of validation on what you're feeling.
Hang in there, you're going to get through this! Let us know how you're doing, okay?
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Thank you for your replies, sweet hope and cl-2nd life. Things are getting a little better around here. We talked a lot yesterday. Everything is still terribly confusing, but we are communicating as well as we can with each other. We aren't arguing, but really trying to listen to each other. My DH still isn't sure that staying is what he wants...he's scared that I will keep bitching at him and not be the wife he needs me to be. He still doesn't say "I love you" to me, either. He said that he's worried he'll be leading me on if he shows any of the affection that he feels for me. He did say that he's leaning "less and less" towards walking out the door, though.
Our first counseling session is at 9:00 tomorrow morning. I am so nervous about it. I really hope that it will help us. Above all, I love my husband and don't want to lose everything good that we do have together. I know that there is a lot of room for change in our relationship, but I don't think that is a bad thing. I'm hoping that eventually we can look at this as the rock bottom point in our marriage and always strive to be better to and for each other. I am committed to making this work.
As for your questions, cl-2nd life...I have asked my DH straight out if he ever did anything physically with "her". His answer is no. He has not seen her since she left Wisconsin at the end of the summer. He did dance with her once, and while I'm not happy about that, it could be a lot worse. I've decided not to push the issue with him. It will be brought up in counseling. I do have access to his email account. His cell phone is through his company (which his parents own and pay the bill), so he would not use that to call her. I handle all of our bills, so if anything turns up, I will know about it. While he was in MS, he had to get a different cell phone through there so he had a local number. He called earlier and disconnected it. Actually, I made the call and he took over when we got the person on the phone. I am reasonably sure that he is serious about not having any more contact with "her".
I'm trying very hard not to push right now. I know that no matter what happens, we need counseling...and probably a lot of it. I can only pray that he realizes what we have is worth fighting for and that he really gives it his all. I am fully prepared to do that as well.
His drinking is a problem. It's something that will also need to be addressed in counseling. As you said, it is a vicious cycle. Hopefully, we can be strong enough to break that cycle and remember what brought us together in the first place.
Have you been to a counselor or therapist before? If you haven't here's an article that will give you a little information on what to expect:
What to Expect in Your 1st Therapy Appt.
You can also expect a good part of the session, or the one to follow, to be information gathering, history of each of your families, etc. It may not seem important, but you'd be surprised how much it can enter in.
Good luck, Cstar, what you've said sounds positive. Let us know how it goes!
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Thank you for your reply again, cl-2nd life. I'm still here...and coping. At this point that's about all I can ask for. We are both taking this whole situation day by day, sometimes minute by minute. My DH seems to be putting his efforts in to making this work and that gives me hope. I keep looking at our kids, our dogs, our home, our lives together and thinking "there's no way he can really want to walk away from all of this". I don't think that's really what he wants...I don't think he knows what he wants at this point.
We had our first counseling session today and it went very well, IMO. My husband and I were both comfortable with the man we saw. He explained the whole process to us and went through a lot of the family history and issues. He asked us what we were trying to achieve with counseling. My husband said that he needs to figure out whether or not he wants to stay in our marriage. I said that I want help dealing with my anger control and emotions and with dealing with his online/phone fling. The counselor also brought up the drinking and really emphasized that this is a big part of the problem. He explained the vicious cycle of resentment, which really seems to hit home for us. I think he is a good fit and he seemed confident that he will be able to help us.
We couldn't get another session for 3 weeks, with the holiday next week, but they did put us on their cancellation list. Hopefully we will get in before then. I'm clinging to the counseling like a lifeline right now. I don't want to make any wrong moves that will push my DH further away. Today seemed very positive, though. The counselor really stressed that he needs to lay off the sauce, but did not tell him to quit altogether at this point. He stressed that we need to really focus on ourselves as a couple and do some fun things just the two of us. He said that it would be better if we didn't do too much with other couples right now, but to really focus on what we like to do together. We have planned a date night for Friday night, so that's something to look forward to.
We rode to the office together and when we got back to my husband's work truck, he gave me a kiss before he got out. As I said before, he hasn't been doing that or saying "I love you". He still hasn't said "I love you", but I'm taking that day by day. When he got home from work tonight, he walked in and said "What's up, Love?" (this has always been his nickname for me). I took this as a positive sign. He seemed to be in a really good mood and positive. Tonight is his pool league night, so him and my dad are out playing pool. My mom and I sat and had a long talk and it really helps to bounce things off of her. She is being very supportive and unbiased in the whole situation.
I'm doing my best not to push my DH on our issues. He's willing to go to the counseling sessions and seems to be hopeful that they will work. Keep your fingers crossed for us, please!
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