New Here - Big Problems in Marriage
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| Sat, 11-12-2005 - 11:16am |
Hello everyone. I'm new here and could use all the advice I can get. My husband and I have been married for 8 years and have two children, his daughter from a previous relationship whom I have raised since she was 10 months old (she's now 10) and our son who is 7. My husband left for Mississippi to work for 3 weeks, I thought it was to get some work experience in his field and try to better himself. Apparently I was wrong, b/c now he says that he left to try to figure out whether or not he still wanted to be married to me. We are high school sweethearts who got married at 19. I thought we had a good marriage...the usual ups and downs, but nothing we couldn't get past. He came home from MS on Friday of last week. The weekend and Monday and Tuesday were wonderful. We made love numerous times and I thought that everything was good. While he was in MS, I was a basketcase, we had never been apart and I didn't handle it well. I tried to be supportive but I couldn't help but cry every time I heard his voice on the phone. He was supposed to be gone for 2+ months, but things didn't work out there and he ended up coming home early. On Wednesday of this week, I could tell something just wasn't right. I finally got him to open up about it, and he told me that he's not sure he wants to be married to me anymore. He isn't sure he's still in love with me. He says that he has felt this way for about 2 years and has just now found the courage to bring this up to me. He says that I bitch at him too much and that I have belittled him over the years to the point that there is a big brick wall between us that he just can't get past. We talked for a long time that night, and he really got everything out. We didn't argue, but a lot of emotions were revealed. I have been living in a fog ever since. I am fully aware that many of the points he made were very valid and my eyes are wide open to my many faults. I have told him that I am willing to do anything and everything that I can to save my marriage. He has a drinking habit and can be very irresponsible and carefee. I have always been the one that has taken charge in our marriage. All of our problems are certainly not my fault, but it has culminated in the fact that he can't get past how I've treated him. The only times in our marriage that he has ever said anything to me before was when he was drinking and got angry. He has always been a very loving husband who has worked very hard to provide for us.
We are going to see a marriage counselor on Tuesday. He says that he doesn't see much hope, but that he is willing to go into it with an open mind. Last night, however, he left his email account open on our computer. When I went to use it, I saw some emails from another woman. These emails were very raunchy and certainly not the type of thing that a married man should be involved in. I confronted him with it, and it turns out that she is a girl that he met when he worked at our local golf course this summer. She moved a long distance away at the end of the summer. He says that nothing happened between them until he looked her up while he was in MS. I believe him. He says that she was refreshing and that he was able to talk to her about me and air his feelings. He says that they have only talked on the phone and via email and that he has never cheated on me. I also believe this.
He has been so confused the past few days, as have I. He doesn't know what he wants. He knows he doesn't want to put the pieces of our marriage back together the way it's been, but isn't sure we can get back on track, or if that's even what he wants. Like I said before, we have been married for 8 years and have two children. We have a house and have been doing well for ourselves. I don't want to lose him. I love him. He says he still loves me but it's just not the same. He wants to make it work, but can't go back to the way things were. We talked for hours last night with no real results. We are going to see the counselor on Tuesday and I want to get some personal counseling as well.
Does anyone have any advice as to how I can save my marriage?

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That all sounds really great, Cstar, I'm so glad it went so well (for both of you) and it sounds like the counselor is someone you feel comfortable with, which is really important.
Sounds like the counselor keyed right in on that there's more at issue here than your anger, and that he has a significant role in that anger as well. Your husband needs to recognize his responsibility in this too. It ain't all you, sister, not by a long shot!
Doing some things together would be really good for you,it's so easy to get so involved in work, kids, etc., that you let your relationship slide,putting it aside until there's "time for it", which, of course, there never is. You've got to treat your relationship like it's as or more important than everything else -- because it is! Time alone, away from kids and responsibilities is important to keep the bond between you strong.
Here's hoping there's a cancellation or two that you can slip into! Thanks so much for letting us know how it went, I'm so glad it went well!
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Hello all. Just thought that I should check in with you and give you an update on my situation. My DH and I went to our first counseling session last Tuesday. He had pool league that night and ended up falling asleep sitting up on the loveseat when he got home. I woke him up at about 4:30 a.m. and he came to bed. We talked about a lot of things then and really were able to get to a much better place. Things have been A LOT better since then, to say the least. We have both been trying really hard to make this work and to be open and honest with each other. We're not really delving in to the past too much right now...that can be worked on with the counseling sessions. What's important to me right now is that we make the best of the position we're in and try to save our marriage. He seems to be making every effort to do that as well. It may be TMI, but it's been one of the best times of our marriage for us "together"...KWIM? We have been very aware of what makes each other happy and have been doing the best we can. We've been enjoying each other's company and following the counselor's advice by just getting out and doing things together. I still don't know for sure if we can make it through this in one piece, but I still know that I'm going to do my best. Now I'm certain, too, that he is going to do the same.
Wish me luck...I'll keep you posted!
That's great to hear, Cstar! It sounds like you're both really making an effort and are finding that paying attention to each other (and your relationship) is paying off. If you're able to enjoy each other's company and save the past issues for your counseling sessions, that may be best, for right now anyway. When you've learned better how to address and deal with each other by learning different/better tools in counseling you'll be better able to successfully address those issues at home.
I'm glad things are going well. When's your next appointment?
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
I think that's the only choice we have right now. He has apologized for what he did, and although there was never anything physical with the other woman, it still bothers me...a lot. For now, I just have to set that aside, though, or we won't get anywhere. Above all, he is a wonderful man and I want to save our marriage more than anything. We have talked a lot and both realize that there are a lot of issues that need to be dealt with, but we're also both looking forward to the counseling sessions. As I said before, we both really liked the counselor that we saw. It will be interesting to see what really makes us tick and to begin to understand what's important to each of us. Our next appt isn't until December 6...still two weeks away. For now, though, we're really focusing on us and spending a lot of time together. We're going to see a movie together tonight, too.
Wish me luck...I'll keep you posted! Thanks for your support!
"Interestingly, I'm reading a book that had some interesting things to say about affairs. "...third parties do serve to stabilize relationships and help keep the real issues safely underground.....the triangles stabilized the marriage so that neither partner was pushing for change" By no means is the author condoning affairs, rather showing how they allow the partner who's in the affair to distance emotionally and keep them satisfied with their relationship as it is by allowing them to avoid being fully invested and thereby making it easy to be satisfied with things remaining as they are. "
I guess I understand about putting your feelings concerning the other woman aside for now, though I'm not at all sure I'd be able to do the same. I do think that the affair issue at some point will have to come down from the shelf and be addressed, because let up there it won't really go away and could eventually end up eroding and destroying everything you've worked to rebuild. Don't let yourself forget that it's up there.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Hi all. Thought I'd give you an update as to how things are going around here.
For the last couple of weeks, things seemed to have been getting progressively better. DH and I have really been talking a lot and making time to do things together...just the two of us. There have been no fights and we've both been working really hard to keep things on an even keel until we get back to counseling.
Throughout this time, my anger about this situation has grown. I'm trying to suppress it as much as I can for now, to deal with in counseling, but it is really hard. I'm starting to see that, however much I may have bitched at him and made him angry, he had no right to hold that in and then dump it all on my in one fell swoop. I think it is very cowardly of him to say that he was too afraid to talk to me about this. We are married, and to me, married means forever. How could he expect me to know that these things bothered him if he never told me, other that when he was drinking a couple times? He says that things may have gone too far now, and that he's not sure we can repair the damage that's been done. I keep thinking that if he had sat me down and said that we needed to have a serious talk about these issues, they may never have reached this point.
My anger about the other woman has also grown. We have talked about it a few times and he still swears that there was never anything physical. He has said a couple times that this is also an issue for him, because he thinks that now I'll never be able to trust him again. He says that he was very confused and that things just really spun out of control when he began this involvement. Regardless of how it happened, and what led to it, it happened. How am I supposed to be sure that it's not going to happen again? I got the bill from him MS cell phone this week, and that was bad. It really killed me to see in black and white the amount of time he spent talking to her and when. How am I supposed to be this terrible bitchy person, in his eyes, when he's carrying on an emotional affair when I'm out trick-or-treating with his kids on Halloween? He would either hang up from me and call her or hang up from her and call me. That just pisses me off! He continued talking to her for over a week after he came home from MS, too...until I saw the emails. The Friday after he got home (one week later), I had a Home Interiors party at our house. He was at a friend's house with our kids. Our friend had to go and pick his son up from practice and DH was there alone with our son for a couple hours...he talked to HER on the phone nearly that entire time...with our son there. That just makes my blood boil. We talked about it some that night and I let him know how much it hurts me that he turned to this. He said that he regrets ever doing it and that he has not had any contact with her since then. I believe that, but it is an issue that will haunt us for quite some time, I'm afraid. I really hope that the counseling will help with this.
His drinking problem has not changed at all, either. It was deer hunting season here in Wisconsin the last couple weeks, so I really let the issue slide during that time. The first weekend, I went out of town with my mom and a friend. That really helped and he got to have his time without having to worry about me getting upset about it. I kept busy last weekend as well, and didn't say anything about what he did while he was hunting. It's a guy thing around here, and I didn't intrude on it for him. Looking back, I can see that I have done that in the past and that's one of the things that has become clear to me that I have to change. This week, however, things still haven't eased up in the drinking area. Tuesday night, his pool night with my dad, he ended up falling asleep in my dad's truck on the way home. I knew that they were on their way home and went to bed. I woke up a couple hours later to find that he still wasn't home. My mom had driven my truck to her house for him to drive home after pool (we only live about 1/2 mile apart). When I woke up, I was terrified that he was in an accident on the way home and hurt. I called my mom right away and she found him still sleeping in her truck. He didn't come home until about 5 a.m. When I went to leave for work at 8, I found that he had not turned the key off in our truck correctly and my battery was dead. I ended up having to call in to work b/c I had no way to get there. Then, tonight, we had agreed that the kids could each have a friend over. My DH was working about 20 minutes from the house and had told me that he wouldn't be working late, which would mean that he would be home by 5 at the latest. I had to leave by 5:30 to bring DD to basketball practice. I tried calling DH's cell at 5:20 to make sure he was going to be home for the boys...no answer. He got home right at 5:30 and I could tell that he'd been drinking. He said that he'd been down at the bar for an hour or so. Ugh...that ticked me off. I come straight home from work at 3:30, deal with four kids and get dinner going...and he's sitting at the bar with the guy that went to MS with him, whom he had called to meet him there. I asked to talk to him in the bedroom, and asked why he had done that. He said there was no reason and it wasn't a big deal b/c he was home in time for me to leave. It's very frustrating for me b/c I already had all four kids ready to go out the door by the time he got here. I don't understand how he can just automatically assume that I'm going to take care of all the details while he can go off and do whatever he wants. He didn't even try to call to tell me he'd be late. We talked about it some more when I came back from dropping DD off, but he was still drinking. He said that it's a little issue and I'm making a big deal out of it. I dropped the issue and said that we should just leave it for discussion at counseling. We kept talking, though, and he said that the way I reacted upset him.
He ended up saying that he's still on the fence about our marriage, that the "boards are wider now", but it's still there. He said that he goes back and forth on whether or not he wants to be here and that I do things throughout the day that piss him off. I am trying so hard to be better and to do everything that I can to save this marriage. I told him that he needs to be completely open and honest with me at all times and tell me when I'm doing something that angers him. We did talk some about his drinking, too, and he said that he had just been drinking socially. He says he knows he's an alcoholic, but that he doesn't think he needs to do anything about it. I listen to him and all I hear is excuses. Again, though, I just let it drop to be dealt with in counseling.
I told him tonight that I am doing the best that I can and that I can't change my ways overnight, that I know I need counseling for a lot of these issues and that he needs to give me the time to get the counseling. He realizes that there are things he needs to change, too, but sees me as the main problem. He's in control of whether or not this works out and it scares me to death to think that he's going to decide that it's not worth working for.
He is sleeping (passed out) on the couch again now. The kids each have a friend over and he drank all night and fell asleep by 9:15. That is frustrating to me.
I know that all of this sounds bad, but things really have been much better in the last couple weeks. We have been making love, a lot (again, I'm sorry if that's TMI), and he has been telling me that he loves me. We haven't been arguing...even tonight was just discussion, no yelling or arguing. I was really beginning to believe that things were going to be ok...that we had a lot of hard work ahead of us, but that we would be able to come out on top. Tonight just made me realize that maybe I'm being a fool and that he's just playing along and isn't really as committed to it as I am. He says that he's trying, but that he still isn't happy and still has thoughts of leaving. I don't know how long I can walk around with that cloud hanging over me. Sometimes, I feel like I'm walking on eggshells and that nothing I do is right.
Our next counseling session is on Tuesday and then we have one every week for the next four weeks. I am really praying that it will help. As I said before, we were both very comfortable with the couselor and felt much better when we left there. I think that maybe we're just getting to the point where these issues need to be discussed and it's coming to the breaking point. The couseling should help with that, though.
Thanks again for listening to me ramble. It really helps to spill my guts here, and I value your responses.
CSTAR
CSTAR,
I have to wonder how much of his "I'm thinking about leaving still." is just a way to change the topic from what it was. I just get the feeling it's a way to keep you scrambling and working to be better and giving him all the power. He's in control and can pull that out when he doesn't want the topic to be on him. He doesn't want to talk about his drinking so he'll bring up leaving.
I don't see anything wrong with you bringing up topics if you can talk about them calmly. If he really is so thick as to think he's a saint and you're the one who needs changing, then I can see waiting til counseling. I can tell you though, it will be hard to work with someone who doesn't think they are doing anything wrong.
(((Hugs))) to you. COme and talk to us all you want. We're here. :)
Jen
Based on what you've said it seems to me that at this point you're his puppet. You're doing a dance to keep him from leaving, you're making all the changes, doing your best to hold your anger, suck up what he does that isn't right while he does whatever he wants and throws out a "I don't know.... you still make me mad every day...." threats to keep you in line, keep you working hard to please him, but what's he doing to please you, to make this relationship work and be better? Yes, you're going out, you're being intimate, but that's easy. The work's in the interaction when it's not all dates and fun. You mention drinking to him and he says he's an alcoholic but doesn't need to do anything about it. You mention not being a responsible parent or a responsible, respectful partner and he says it's no big deal, you're making too much of it. So, as I read it, you're doing the work and he's doing whatever he pleases. Geez, I wish my life was like that, bet you do too. If you need validation that what's happening isn't right and isn't fair, you've got it. What's going on at this point is bull.
I mean, I'm sorry, but while you may need to not express yourself angrily, you do need an outlet and you do need to face and resolve issues. You holding it while he prances around doing whatever he pleases is ridiculous, it doesn't mean he gets to do whatever he wants without concern of how it affects you, your marriage or the family. He still has to be a responsible father, husband and partner and he still is accountable for his actions. Getting to do whatever he wants and only have to face the music once a week with a counselor is bull. He's acting like a little kid and giving lame excuses that he thinks allows him to be irresponsible.
Does your counselor know you're saving all disagreements for your sessions? I mean, I can understand and agree with holding the hot issues for counseling, but you talked about your daily problems and dilemmas before, surely you can't expect to hold off any and all disagreement until counseling? That sounds like a step back, not forward. Does s/he agree with your approach?
As far as his failure to be a responsible parent or partner (staying out drinking when he knew extra kids were coming over), yes, it IS a big deal. I'm betting if the situation had been reversed, he'd come home early and been taking care of kids while you went out drinking without so much as a call it would be a VERY big deal.
His response to his drinking is concerning. He agrees that he's an alcoholic but isn't interested in changing that. Maybe he'll say that he'll "cut down" but doesn't need outside help. I'll tell you that an alcoholic can't "cut down", it's all or nothing, their either drinking or their not. When you consider that alcoholism is the inability to regulate appropriate amounts of alcohol, you realize how preposterous "cutting down" is. Real help is necessary to be a recovering alcoholic. An alcoholic can stop drinking by himself, but without help, he's "white knuckling it", getting through day by day the hard way. Doing it that way will stop the drinking but he won't be happy, he'll hate life. Real help is what it takes. However, he's not interested in help, which means you have to believe that nothing's going to change in that arena, you have no reason to believe he'll ever be ready to stop drinking. That means continued passing out on the couch in front of the kids, passing out in his truck (driving home is not only illegal but very, very dangerous and scary for him as well as innocent people who are also on the road), continued scenarios where you're the responsible parent at home while he's out drinking with his friends. In your life it means a lot more than that too, I'm sure. Just like another woman, when there's addiction in a relationship, there cannot be appropriate focus on each other, the third party (drinking) is taking much of the attention and focus. It makes your relationship a threesome, a triangle, there's more involved than just you two. I'll also say that the example he sets for your children is dysfunctional and dangerous. They're learning how men and women act, what their roles are in a relationship. Your boys are learning that men do what they want, stay out and drink with friends, drink so much they pass out and women stay home and are responsible. Your girls are learning the same. Children of each sex will take the examples and lessons they grew up with into their own adult lives and repeat them, even if they hate what's happening. It's what they're learning, it's the only way of living they know. Please realize your life is the only example they have of what's "normal" and "ideal". Since you're early in facing the problem, he may change his tune on sobriety. I wouldn't count on it, I'd move forward expecting him not to change, and make your decisions based on the reality of what is, not what you hope might be in the future.
Have you considered going to see the therapist for some sessions by yourself? Not instead of your couples therapy, but along with. I think having an outlet to address your anger and frustrations would be really good, and your therapist would be the best resource for you to do that with. You'd get what you need and you'd come away with suggestions and tools that will help you deal with the situation and hopefully resolve some of what's going on. It would be really good and helpful for you.
There are a few other boards that might be helpful for you too, you might consider checking them out:
Betrayed Spouses Support
Dealing with Addictions
I hope you don't feel I've been too harsh. The counseling is fairly recent, which means the attitude and actions he's displaying now with could easily change for the better. Right now it's incredibly lopsided and unfair and IMO (at least if it were me), it can't stay that way. Walking on eggshells and sucking it up while he has carte blanche to do whatever he wants wouldn't be acceptable to me for very long. You're not the mom with a hurt child, you're a woman who has a problem that requires each partner to do their share of work to resolve. The alcohol plays a huge part and the truth is that the reality of what it is today is what it is, and there's no indication of change on that horizon. It's a tough place to be, and quite frankly, you might be asking yourself if you want to spend the rest of your life with an active alcoholic.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Wanted to add (Good God, could there possibly be more?!?) that the reason I suggested the Betrayed Spouses board is because they will be able to validate and relate to the feelings you have concerning your husband's involvement with the other woman (there they'll call it an EA - Emotional Affair), not because I think he's still involved. Talking with other women who have been there can be very helpful and healing.
~ cl-2nd_life"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Hi Cstar, I am new here but I have been in your exact same situation. The only difference is my DH doesn't drink. His father and mother are both alcoholics so he stays away from it. Two years ago this spring, I got the cell phone bill. There were alot of phone calls that were not to me and I didn't know the numbers. He had met various women online, called them and eventually had phone sex with them atleast. Oh, by the way he is a truck driver, so he has lots of oppurtunitys to do this with out me knowing. I called one and got her voice mail so I immediately called him. I was surprised that he confessed as quickly as he did. I was so angry and upset and felt like my whole life had ended. I am a Sahm with 4 kids, so I felt totally trapped. We did the counseling, together and just me, had lots of sex (seemed important at the time to keep him interested) and I spent alot of time going back through phone bills. He had started this a year before I found out. This woman was going to move from Mississippi (of all places!) to Ohio to be with him. She was going to bring her 4 kids with her. I have never been so angry and depressed in my whole life. He swore he never intended to hurt me or leave me, but I was yelling at him and all we did was fight (sound familiar?)
He eventually got to the whole I don't know if I want to stay with you. But that was just for manipulation. I knew he wasn't leaving, honestly he doesn't have the balls to do it. I didn't listen to that crap, I knew I was going to have some major problems if he did and I didn't need more stress. So we continued with counseling and I don't really know if that helped him or not, but it did help me. I didn't see much of a change in him till I went back to school. Then I got lots of I am so sorry, and he would actually seem sorry. I know I scared him by growing my own back bone and showing him that I will NOT depend on him. I don't need him all the time anymore, I have my own life and that is what he needed to see.
Since this we have bought our first house and I am still going to school. I am having my own mid life crisis (at 30) and can't really decide what I want to be when I grow up. We are making plans for the rest of our lives. We still fight and I can still get really mad about it at times, but we don't talk about it anymore. I will see that he is acting like he did when he was cheating and I ask him about it. Usually he is just mad at work, but we talk now. Communicating is so important! Talk to him about the important things when you are alone with him, not just in counseling. That hour goes by so fast. Our counselor had us write letters about what we needed from each other. That really helped to be able to see it in black and white. If you can't talk about it, write it out and let him read it. There were times I couldn't talk because I was so mad or crying so much. We were only in counseling for 7 mths. It helps if you can go by yourself too.
O.K. I am just rambling now. You can email me if you want. It is so important to have someone besides him to talk to. Hope this helps and good luck tomorrow.
Melissa
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