New Here - Big Problems in Marriage

iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2005
New Here - Big Problems in Marriage
35
Sat, 11-12-2005 - 11:16am

Hello everyone. I'm new here and could use all the advice I can get. My husband and I have been married for 8 years and have two children, his daughter from a previous relationship whom I have raised since she was 10 months old (she's now 10) and our son who is 7. My husband left for Mississippi to work for 3 weeks, I thought it was to get some work experience in his field and try to better himself. Apparently I was wrong, b/c now he says that he left to try to figure out whether or not he still wanted to be married to me. We are high school sweethearts who got married at 19. I thought we had a good marriage...the usual ups and downs, but nothing we couldn't get past. He came home from MS on Friday of last week. The weekend and Monday and Tuesday were wonderful. We made love numerous times and I thought that everything was good. While he was in MS, I was a basketcase, we had never been apart and I didn't handle it well. I tried to be supportive but I couldn't help but cry every time I heard his voice on the phone. He was supposed to be gone for 2+ months, but things didn't work out there and he ended up coming home early. On Wednesday of this week, I could tell something just wasn't right. I finally got him to open up about it, and he told me that he's not sure he wants to be married to me anymore. He isn't sure he's still in love with me. He says that he has felt this way for about 2 years and has just now found the courage to bring this up to me. He says that I bitch at him too much and that I have belittled him over the years to the point that there is a big brick wall between us that he just can't get past. We talked for a long time that night, and he really got everything out. We didn't argue, but a lot of emotions were revealed. I have been living in a fog ever since. I am fully aware that many of the points he made were very valid and my eyes are wide open to my many faults. I have told him that I am willing to do anything and everything that I can to save my marriage. He has a drinking habit and can be very irresponsible and carefee. I have always been the one that has taken charge in our marriage. All of our problems are certainly not my fault, but it has culminated in the fact that he can't get past how I've treated him. The only times in our marriage that he has ever said anything to me before was when he was drinking and got angry. He has always been a very loving husband who has worked very hard to provide for us.

We are going to see a marriage counselor on Tuesday. He says that he doesn't see much hope, but that he is willing to go into it with an open mind. Last night, however, he left his email account open on our computer. When I went to use it, I saw some emails from another woman. These emails were very raunchy and certainly not the type of thing that a married man should be involved in. I confronted him with it, and it turns out that she is a girl that he met when he worked at our local golf course this summer. She moved a long distance away at the end of the summer. He says that nothing happened between them until he looked her up while he was in MS. I believe him. He says that she was refreshing and that he was able to talk to her about me and air his feelings. He says that they have only talked on the phone and via email and that he has never cheated on me. I also believe this.

He has been so confused the past few days, as have I. He doesn't know what he wants. He knows he doesn't want to put the pieces of our marriage back together the way it's been, but isn't sure we can get back on track, or if that's even what he wants. Like I said before, we have been married for 8 years and have two children. We have a house and have been doing well for ourselves. I don't want to lose him. I love him. He says he still loves me but it's just not the same. He wants to make it work, but can't go back to the way things were. We talked for hours last night with no real results. We are going to see the counselor on Tuesday and I want to get some personal counseling as well.

Does anyone have any advice as to how I can save my marriage?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 11-28-2005
Wed, 12-07-2005 - 6:00pm

I haven't read all your posts - but here's the general jist.
People don't abuse a substance or activity for "relief/escape" if they are self-aware, accepting, responsible and goal focused and proactive about life as the challenge that it is.

People that believe they're entitled to relief/escape from life as it appears before them....aren't going to 'settle" for one night of escape, or a schedule for relief.

Basically, addictions switch venues until one hits that involves chemical dependency. Before it was booze - it was sex, or exercise, or working/working/working, or spending money, or fishing or doing something or using something to "excess obsessively and in extreme proportion".

So the first thing he was addicted to was "chaos". Very likely he was raised in a chaotic and somewhat boundaryless environment........and without boundaries and goals and value orientation - there really is nothing but chaos.

So he's never been aware that "actions have consequences" per se. His environment has everybody owning and involved and held accountable and responsible for the feelings, needs, actions, and consequences of other people than themselves.

Envision everybody in a line - scratching backs.....and that is a boundaryless environment.

So every time there is obligation or change - there is more chaos - which justifies and entitles his "usage".........and really need to get entitlement.

There's nothing "wrong" with waht he's doing in light of how things are in light of what he's entitled to have - that's his way of viewing it.

And you're an enabler....you got with him because your life is one of boundaryless approach, adn in not wanting to be overlooked or lost in the shuffle - you need to be needed - confusing it with "wanting to be wanted"...so you've chosen someone who creates chaos, and is "entitled" - to give you someone to attend to, supervise, and follow simultaneously - so that you're "of use and benefit" and wont' be left behind.

The counselor is 210% correct......and ethical. Plenty of unethical counselors would agree to continue to see you tw and let you "vent"......while the boozing and enablingg continued -w tih no improvements possible, and change always occuring - to keep the chaos at full swing.

This one won't because he knows the problem isn't his drinking or your enabling - it's the thinking patterns yu both use that "mesh" - until they collide.

You're now experiencing "entitlement" - waht he's got in full measure with no restraint and with no parameters regarding "anything he feels" - you're getting "entitled" t him being more supportive, and responsible as a result of "status" - marriage and fatherhood.

That's why enablers push to marry an inept, irresponsible, insecure, and unsuccessful person......because they believe with "status comes options and wht they want to have and can't get on thier own and can't manipulate you into giving up now - "status" will change all that" - but it doesn't.

So really, this is just the tip of the iceberg....but if i can help, let me know.

ERin
quickblade14@hotmail.com

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 12-07-2005 - 9:59pm

I'm sorry you're having a tough day, Cstar and I'm sorry that you're frustrated that everyone seems to see alcohol as the primary problem. My ex-husband did on occasion throw and break things, but he was abusive as well as alcoholic. The kind of broken glass I was thinking of was the kind that gets bumped and knocked over, not thrown in a drunken rage. Sorry for not being more specific, I guess I expect you to see the same image I have playing in my head. :) My ex-husband didn't get sick or pass out all the time either, and to add a new one, he never - EVER drank at home, in fact I rarely saw him drink at all. He was, like your husband what's called a "functioning alcoholic". Your husband himself has admitted to having a drinking problem. Your therapist has years of experience, when he says he can't work with you as long as there's alcohol involved he knows what he's talking about. The same triangle, the same defense and allegiance goes on with any addiction. I'd listen to what your counselor has to say, he's had years of experience and training and he knows what he's talking about.


It seems like you think that if you change your attitude, stop "bitching" at him he'll stop drinking. It won't. The thing is, he doesn't have to drink to escape it. He could golf, fish, go for walks, take up running, bicycling...there are a million things he could do to get away from "bitching". He's drinking because he's an alcoholic, your attitude is because of the added pressure and responsiblity (overfunctioning) due to his drinking (underfunctioning), he uses your "bitching" as an excuse to drink. He also thinks it's "no big deal" and that you "make too much of it". He's looking for ways to excuse it, like all active alcoholics do.


I know you don't want to think it or hear it, but I would really encourage you to spend some time learning more about alcoholism and relationships. If you don't want to post on the addiction board, lurk and read what others who are involved with alcoholics have to say. Check out the AA and Al-anon websites, do some reading, learn what you can about how it affects the dynamics of a relationship. Or not, your choice.


I drink socially too, always have, though not so much when I was with my ex, even before it I realized he was an alcoholic I avoided alcohol often because it was causing problems (like your husband, he'd stay out to "visit with friends" without calling and without coming home) and I felt that doing much drinking myself would "condone" his drinking, give him the ablility to say, "See? You drink so why can't I?". I did not want to be married to an alcoholic. It was quite upsetting for me to finally accept that he was indeed an alcoholic. Alcoholism had no place in the life I saw for us, neither did what I viewed the time as the "stigma" of alcoholism. The last thing I wanted was to have this lifelong issue tied to him -- us. Of course, that doesn't matter, what is, is.


I'll try to do a better job of keeping my thoughts to myself in responding to your posts, but don't be surprised if I keep mentioning alcoholism. Your husband admits it, your therapist knows what it is and knows what it means to relationships and change and improvement in them. He's going on his training and the decades of research, knowledge and learning that went into the understanding of what alcoholism is and does.


Changing thoughts, ideas, attitudes and actions is difficult no matter what the issue is. You and he are both experiencing the pangs of change and neither of you like it. That's not at all unexpected or unusual. Hang in there, Cstar. Hope things get better for you!







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown









"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-12-2005
Sun, 12-11-2005 - 2:22am

Hello everyone. Thought I'd fill you in on how the last couple of days have been going here. Again, I want to thank all of you for your support and for taking the time to read and respond to my posts. It is sometimes difficult to read the responses, and although I don't always agree, I do see your points. I just want to stress again the fact that, through all of this, the most important thing to me is saving my marriage and family. I love my husband with all my heart. I love our family and our life together (for the most part). We both have some pretty serious issues to work through and life has been a roller coaster of emotions over the last month, but I truly can't see him walking away from everything that we've worked so hard for over the last 10 years.

So, on Wednesday (the day after our counseling session), DH ended up meeting up with my dad after work and then meeting my mom and I at the birthday dinner. All was fine. He acted normally at the party. He did have quite a bit to drink, again, but I kind of expected that. I really felt after the counseling that he would "rebel" a little and ignore what was said. When we got home, however, he started thinking again and wouldn't come to bed. I got up sometime in the middle of the night and convinced him to come to bed, though. One of the worst things for me would be for the kids to see him sleeping on the couch like that. I want to keep them as oblivious to our troubles as possible for as long as possible.

On Thursday morning, things were a lot better. We talked for a while before we had to get up and get ready for work. When he got home, we set up our Christmas tree and it went really well. He was being very loving and fun. The hubby I know and love. I know it's terrible, but I made sure to take lots of pics of us with the kids participating in this family tradition. However much I don't like to think about it, this could be our last holiday season together and I really wanted to make sure I captured that for the kids regardless of how things work out.

I had gone to see his mom after work on Thursday, too. I asked him if he minded first, I didn't want him to be upset by that, but his mom is great and her advice was helpful. We talked for a long time, and it was nice to discuss it with someone who can see things from his point of view. We talked about the drinking a lot and how this whole ugly cycle began. In talking to her, I started to realize something that I thinks been hanging me up through these postings. I know my DH has a problem with alcohol, but I don't think it's something that we can't work through. I think the bigger issue is responsibility. He doesn't stop to think about the consequences of his actions or of the things that need to be done and whatever. He doesn't drink more that many of the other guys that we know, my dad and his dad included. The difference is that we have small kids at home and I always end up having to run the show there, whether he's drinking or not. He just doesn't deal with details and schedules, he expects me to run the show. Sometimes I think that I just need to accept that and deal with it, as long as he's aware of the problems and does the best he can. He is a very loving man and a wonderful father and husband. I think going to some personal counseling will help me work this out more, though. I don't know.... Everything is so confusing right now.

Friday went well. DH called me at work and asked if I could find a sitter so we could meet up with his family after work. They were all meeting at a local bar to practice pool. My dad was planning on taking the kids for me that night anyway, so it worked out well. Again, he was great while we were there. Although he did drink, it was not nearly as much as he normally would. We went home by 8 and spent the evening watching tv and cuddling on the couch. For some reason, though, after he went to sleep, I just could not get the whole issue of the OW out of my head. I have been checking his email account and the MS cell is shut off, but he has a cell phone through work (his parents own the company and pay the bill) and for some reason, I went on a mission and looked through his phone. I found her number saved under another name on the phone...and sort of lost it. I woke him up and asked him why the hell it was in there. He got mad. He told me that it had been in there for a long time and that he hadn't called her since the day after I found out about all of it. He stormed out of the bedroom and went in to the living room. After some prodding from me, he told me that he had called her last week. He says that he does not have feelings for her and that it is over, but that he called to tell her that we were working on things. He said that he won't promise that he isn't going to call her again, but only as friends and nothing more. I said that if he is still talking to her, he's not here. He said that he's here physically and mentally and doing the best he can right now. I don't know what to believe...on one hand, I know that I have to get past this if we are going to work things out. On the other hand, I don't want to be a fool and believe everything he says. I don't know how his mom would feel if I asked to see the cell bill, either. It really bothers me to not be able to double-check on whether or not he's telling me the truth. In the end, I told him that we would just have to agree to disagree on the issue until later...I want to discuss it with the counselor and everyone has told me not to push DH right now...he needs time and space, too. I'm certainly not ok with him talking to her, though. It's eating me up inside.

He ended up coming to bed later last night and then I drove him to town this morning for work and my mom and I went shopping. It was a rough day...I couldn't stop thinking about it. When I got home, though, I just acted like nothing was wrong and went about my business. We ended up watching a movie and falling asleep on the couch together. Then we went to my mom's for dinner and things were fine. Sometimes, I think the guy is just as confused as I am. I think he's dealing with a lot of guilt for not being able to communicate to me earlier how he was feeling and then just dumping it all on me and for carrying on with this EA, too. It's a really hard time for both of us and we are both doing our best to work things through. Our kids are the number one priority here, and I just have to keep pushing through. I pray every day that we will get through this with our marriage intact. Sometimes I doubt that, but most of the time I'm pretty optimistic about the future. Only time will tell....

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Sun, 12-11-2005 - 8:29pm

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~~Um, okay, he put her number in there under a wrong name a long time ago.... Is it just me or is that ringing bells for anyone else? Cause what reason would he have to put it in under the wrong name BEFORE all this? I'm sorry but he fed you a line, IMO. I think he's still talking to her and there is NO WAY he can do it and "be friends" because that's not how things work. And even if it was, it is still totally inappropriate.

One thing I've noticed with my DH is that things are great as long as I don't try and talk about the serious issues that he wants to ignore. I bring those up and life is heck. I leave them alone and everything is fine. I get the feeling that your DH does that somewhat too. Not that you can't talk about some things, but there are some things that they just refuse to deal with.

Jen

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 12-12-2005 - 3:53pm

The fact that he hid her by adding her number under another name says he knew his contact with her was inappropriate. The fact that he called her last night says it's not over. He can say he just called to update her on your progress, but if he's truly interested in rebuilding with you, he has no reason to contact her at all. And if, as he's said, he's not contacting her anymore and/or that their relationship is over, he's not being truthful.


Do you realize that when your husband stomps off to the couch it is part of a pattern that he wins and you lose? You get angry, he stomps off knowing full well you'll coax him back to bed, and in doing so will swallow the issue that was between you to start with. He wins, the issue is avoided, which is what he wanted in the beginning. Let him sleep on the couch. There's nothing wrong with kids knowing that parents have arguments. There are other reasons for couch sleeping besides fights too, you know. My husband's sometime-snoring can result in either he or I being on the couch in the morning, we'll also move to the couch if we're having a hard night (tossing and turning) out of respect for the other's night of decent sleep.


We are not the only ones who recognize alcohol problems in your husband, your counselor sees it too, and he gets a much clearer picture than we do. Responsibility will not be able to be achieved until the primary interest (alcohol) has been removed from your relationship. I know you don't agree and that you don't see it. Stick with your counselor, post and or lurk on the Dealing with Addictions board, and check into Al-Anon

Tough to do when you don't believe it's a problem, so I really don't expect you'll check out either link. Hope you do though, I think it'll help you resolve your issues a lot faster If any part of you is afraid that by admitting a problem will mean the end of your marriage, I don't think that's necessarily true at all. It will mean the end of you enabling him, which will force him to face the reality of his addiction, which will possibly result in his being ready to work on it. Even if he doesn't, recognizing a problem doesn't mean you have to leave. Alanon is all about living with an alcoholic, you'll get help there, not pressure to leave.







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown









"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"

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