Not getting much better...

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-21-2005
Not getting much better...
24
Tue, 10-25-2005 - 1:08pm

I hate, hate, hate being wrapped up in my own problems...

It's only been what like 48 hours since my other post??? LOL!

I know you all have been warning me and I suppose these last few days have spoken volumes about what I feel about my relationship.

To be honest, I really had gotten to a point where I believed my bf and what he was telling me. We have spoken a lot lately and I even suggested him going to talk to someone which he said he would do (doesn't yet know that I am suggesting him to go talk to a SA therapist or get an SA evaluation - we'll see how that one is received...)

He has been trying really hard lately to do things, be available, be helpful, be communicative, went out of his way for my b-day...but I feel like it's not helping me even with being in therapy.

I just don't know if this is ever going to go away. I feel like this is not just his problem but mine also. I know that because of my moral code/belief system AND because of what happened to me that I can't be with someone who will possibly allow this into their life, but honestly besides this one issue I feel like this man really was my soulmate in every way. I know that even when I was with people who were very trustworthy I struggled with jealousy and trust, so I KNOW I have issues that I need to work on and I am trying as much as I possibly can. I know that I really had to work hard on not being insecure before and I had come a long way and here I am knocked back down to square one again...

I have been so much better in backing off and knowing I can't do a damn thing to control him, if he's going to do anything, I can't stop him. I really felt like I was trusting him but coming on here I get afraid that I can't. He is a computer genius so he can hide whatever he wanted to from me however if he isn't hiding anything he is probably walking on paper-thin eggshells now because he knows how I've been freaking out...

I think I'm picking fights because I am still incredibly angry. I want to make this work am trying to, he's trying to but because this anger is like a boiling pot of water from which all the steam hasn't escaped from yet...I feel like I'm venting it in other ways now and not wanting to shame him more if he is being honest and truthful, I don't bring it up.

If you all have the time, if you could read my other post on Families Damaged by Pornography "Drowning in this madness" cuz I just feel like I don't know if I can do this anymore and I don't know what my plan of action should be.

I want to be with this man but feel like I don't know if I can make this work. I really do feel like someone who doesn't fit in with what 99.9% of society thinks and don't know if it's even possible for me to find someone else who will see things the way I do unless I join some Amish group...lol!!!

I love this man and I want this to be ok and I think besides the things he needs to work on, I know I have things that I need to work on too (always have) and they are proposing a HUGE problem now...my mistrust/jealousy/insecurity/past abuse + his betrayal = insurmountable terrain???

2nd-life, you said sometimes an addict will become comfortable if he knows someone can't leave him, would it be to our benefit if I did even for a time to see what he does? I feel like I am getting more and more removed from him in a way that I wasn't before. We argued last night and he sent me an email (see other post) and I haven't called him or written back and don't even want to right now and I don't even care about what we were really fighting about!

I want my life back, and I wish I could have my soulmate back. I know you said there is someone else out there who might be more "perfect" for me but I really don't believe it. I never felt the way I did about him or the endless list of things that made our relationship so completely unique and wonderful...
ok let me return to my numb world now...

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Wed, 10-26-2005 - 6:22pm

>>His beliefs on porn aren't the same as yours, so his conviction not to use it isn't strong. What makes him a bad guy is that he wasn't honest with you in the first place and did it behind your back. But using it despite your convictions only makes him human and adhering to his own standards, just like you should do<<

Yes, yes, yes. I agree with all that Marcymay wrote - particularly the above. I can also understand how your history makes relationship judgements difficult for you, however your history DOES NOT alter your current relationship as it now stands.

I can understand why you are having such a difficult time in trusting him to not use porn again. It's your common sense telling you that he will do it again. And he will use it again! It's obvious that his standards are different to yours and you have to accept this if you want a partnership with him.

You also said that you're not sure if your expectations on porn use are realistic and you don't know if you'll find someone in this day and age who agrees with you. I spend a lot of time on the sex advice boards, so I'll give you a snapshot of what the majority of the *intelligent* posters with life experience on the boards would likely say.

Most will tell you that it is very possible to find a man who will avoid porn if it's important to you. However, this is based on the scenario that you are living together.

Most posters will also say that you will be hard pressed to find a man who tolerates you banning him from porn use in his own home - in his own time. What he does in the privacy of his own home is his own business. Most will also say that if you're NOT living together, there is nothing wrong with him using porn when you're not around - or away for a few days. I agree with all these sentiments.

I'm NOT saying that you are wrong in how you feel. Because you feel how you feel. But do be aware that it will be a hard request to fill.

If you do want to continue with your boyfriend, the only way to find peace will be to accept that his views on porn are not the same as yours. You must also accept that there's a very, very high chance that he WILL use it again while you're not living together. Can you accept this? Only you know the answer. However, if having any form of porn in his life is unacceptable to you under any circumstances, then he's not the man for you.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 10-26-2005 - 11:51pm

What do you expect us to say different based on the disclosure of your past? "Since you had such a messed up childhood then he's entitled to lie and do this thing you made very clear was not a negotiable item" or maybe, "Since you had such a messed up childhood, you'd better grab up that guy that uses porn and lied to you. Hey, I know that porn is something you're very sensitive about and has great potential to be very damaging, but so what? You'd better toss your principles out the window suck it up and learn to be okay with porn and a guy who violates your trust like that because you're sure not going to get anything better." Do you really think anyone's going to say that? Do you really think anyone's going to believe that?


You seem stuck (today anyway) on whether you're right to demand no porn, period. Yeah, you have that right and you're not alone. These are your principles, your standards, no one else's. They'd darn well better be exactly what you want, need and expect.


I=You have the right to step away. It's fine not to want contact right now. You have the right and you have the need to do that right now. Tell him you need some time to yourself and you'll check back in with him when you're ready. That's honest, letting him know what's up and it's giving you what you need.


I've said it before so I'm only going to touch on it briefly. You're pushing too hard. You need time to process, time to let this settle. Give yourself time to deal with it, sit with it and let it soak in. Months isn't enough. You can get hit with "wave #2" of emotions like it all happened just yesterday and that's perfectly normal. Ease up and give yourself permission not to decide right now.



Marcymay's right. Nothing's changed and our thoughts and opinions aren't going to have changed either. If you want to hear what we think, it would be good to go back and reread the answers to your previous posts. I urge you to check in with your therapist. Call her and talk to her about where you are right now. You're in a hurting place and we make you worse. So why are you here? What are you looking for? What's to be gained?







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:

Living Together



Edited 10/26/2005 11:54 pm ET by cl-2nd_life








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-21-2005
Thu, 10-27-2005 - 2:49pm
In all honesty, I don't know. I suppose I am just looking for some kind of friendship or support while sorting this out...
iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Thu, 10-27-2005 - 6:24pm

but Quirky Girl, it's been obvious from the start that we're not giving you the type of support that you're after. Without exception, we've been telling you that based on your different moral expectations (and his lies) he's not your soulmate and never was....but you continually disagree with us. There is only so much support that we can give you if you don't agree with the sentiments being posted.

Your choice is simple. If you want to stick to your beliefs about porn (which you have the absolute right to do) he's not the man for you. PERIOD. We all know that there's a damn good chance that he'll use it again because he's made his ideas known through his previous actions. However, if you want to be with him, you will have to accept that chance WITHOUT QUESTION.

You would be wise to remember this:

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

At this point in your relationship you need to internally pinpoint each of the above three points. But just a tip - of the things that you can find the courage to change, don't look to change him. You can't and shouldn't do it.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-21-2005
Thu, 10-27-2005 - 7:01pm

I know you all are frustrated with me but I'm just trying to take the time to let everything sink in.
Remember I haven't really dealt with this face to face since it happened and now that I am I am just caught up in a whirlwind of emotions. Maybe everything all of you are saying is just a hard pill to swallow, maybe I'm in denial still, who knows, all I know is that I'm tired of feeling this way and I have pulled away from him a lot lately and it's actually helping.

I've been really sick lately and am going in for testing and hopefully it won't be a condition my Dr. suspected I might have which is permanent. It has been very painful, uncomfortable and exhausting because I can't sleep sometimes with this condition. I was late dropping and picking my kids up from preschool today... I'm trying really hard to keep my head up guys, I'm sorry if I'm not listening or being hard headed or whatever... it's tough cuz I have no family and most of my friends were mutual from when I was married so I'm not in touch as much and haven't made a lot of new close friends that don't live across the country...

The sad thing was that I called up my x, told him I got 4 hours of sleep last night and he was so concerned, offered to help, do whatever, he took the kids for the majority of the day and probably tomorrow too...

I called my bf who was out with his son and mother shopping and I told him about it, he let me explain everything however didn't really ask if I was ok now or anything, just asked if he could call me back...

I was pretty hurt unless I'm just reading into it and he didn't maybe want to talk about it in front of his mom or something...

I dunno guys, I'm trying, barely keeping my head above water, and with this relationship I'm just lost...maybe it is time to move on...I just don't know how right now. When you spend most of your life alone, I guess when and if you become attached to people you become more codependent on people (btw I think I am going to start attending CODA soon). And maybe even if I think I shouldn't be with him, right now it would feel like losing my arm AND leg...
I think I need time to think and try to get to a better independent spot...

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-21-2005
Thu, 10-27-2005 - 7:25pm

Want to hear something else funny that happened today? Well, it's not all funny. since I was sick after my kids went to their dad's house, I went to sleep. I heard someone ring my doorbell and half asleep I just said to myself "maybe they'll come back later if it's important"...then a few minutes later I heard fire engines come down the road and they stopped at my landlord's house who lives next door. Well feeling back cuz I didn't know who was knocking on my door or why I ran outside.

I asked the cop there who rung my doorbell and if they needed anything. The person doing work on the house had a heater that caught fire and had come over to ask for help (I felt so bad that I ignored him!). However they got it out before any major damage was done but the owner (my landlord) wasn't there So the cop asks me if I can call my landlord to let him know (oh SURE, no problem officer, let ME break the bad news to the hot tempered Italian who just invested $50,000 in renovations that his house is on fire!!! - or was... -no offense to Italians I am Italian myself - lol!

So he's flying back with his hazards on the whole way and tried to call me back while I went back outside to tell the cop this...

All the while I'm thinking to myself as I'm seeing some handsome firemen that I look like TOTAL crap after being sick and sleeping!
Well the cop (who was older) starts talking to me, asking me all kinds of questions says "its so nice to have nice people in the neighborhood" (like he even knows me!)and basically we talked so much that eventually we got to a point where I said I may be trying to find a job part time, he said that his wife owns a bunch of gyms and if I call she may consider hiring me, but proceeds to start talking about his children, then specifically his SON (same age as me) and how his son's not married and doesn't know when he'll settle down and how important it is to meet someone nice, who's like you and you can talk to...and all the while I'm sitting here thinking he can't possibly be thinking he wants me to meet his son because first of all I look like death warmed over at the moment...! Besides this I made a point of mentioning even before that that I was married and have 2 SMALL CHILDREN (are you CRAZY for wanting your son to meet a divorced woman with 2 children?) He says how can you have two kids and have been married, you look like you're maybe 21...!!!
He proceeds to tell me he was married then divorced then married again, goes on more about his son...
It was so WEIRD to say the least. Finally after he gave me the number for his wife to call about a job, I asked him to excuse me cuz I wanted to go back in and not feeling so comfortable with how I felt like he was going to try to set me up with his son next or something...!
It was very strange. Made me feel though that there are other people out there and also that I might be able to have a job working at a gym where i can work out for free! That would be great!
And since bf is not interested in hearing my story I'm telling all of you (I think I'll leave out the whole son part though when I tell him...!)

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-21-2005
Thu, 10-27-2005 - 9:53pm

Sorry all I'm bored and I don't have anyone to talk to so I'm coming here again...

Maybe I really am in love with a self-absorbed jerk. Not talking to him and spending more time on my own has made me feel better lately.

He still never called me back after our conversation. I called him and he was at home hooking up a router and helping his neighbor with her comp so he can save money. He didn't ask me how I was, his phone kept cutting out. ok he just now called said he'll call me back after he goes to the neighbors...he never asked if I was ok, never asked if I needed anything, or even offered to stop over (lives 5 min away), just said he thought I would go to sleep cuz I didn't sleep last night...most of the time I go over there but I feel like if I don't call or go over, he wouldn't call here or come over much even though he moved close to me so he could supposedly see me more often...???

Am I really just blinding myself from his self-centeredness?

I have had this problem/health issue for months and months and it's been very difficult. I haven't known what was wrong, I just keep getting infection after infection. If you've ever had a UTI you know how miserable they can be, well it's felt like I've had a UTI for the last 8 months now. It was treated recently but just came back with a vengeance yesterday and it hurt so badly and when i take over the counter stuff it gives me really bad cramps and doesn't help the pain/discomfort anymore. I was up last night in the bathroom so much and I just wanted to cry because I was so uncomfortable and in so much pain. I ended up falling asleep on the couch my daughter woke me up at 8:30 and we had to be out the door for preschool by 9.

He knows I've had this problem and I think is somewhat tired of hearing about it, but knows that I'm trying to find out what's wrong and get treated.

So I here I am hoping he might have some kind of compassion or concern for me but is obviously so busy trying to help his neighbor and save a few bucks for himself that it seems he just figures I'll be ok by myself going to sleep...no "hey do you want me to come over" no "hey are you feeling ok" "hey do you need anything"...nada, squat, zilch...

Fortunately I drove straight to my Dr.s after dropping the kids off and gave them a sample which they later called me and phoned in two different prescriptions to try to treat it and the pain and discomfort. He doesn't even know this though. Unfortunately the pain medicine also caused me severe cramps and after I took it and finally took a shower, I had to lay down on the floor because it hurt so much...does he know any of this or has he asked about anything? Nope.

I feel like slapping him upside the head and saying "oh yeah, I'm doing fine, great, dandy, now that I'm on medication - thanks for asking, no I don't need anything..."

Ok, done venting now...maybe all I need is more time by myself to see things clearly and to possibly let him go...

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Thu, 10-27-2005 - 10:20pm

Chronic illnesses can very often be caused by stress. I'd lay money that when you move on from all this drama, your UTIs will go away.

I've been there in the past - both with chronic UTIs and with chronic yeast infections. Both had an underlying factor of stress and both chronic conditions went away when I sorted out my issues.

Unfortunately, Western medicine still has a lot to learn about wholistic treament of the body - hence many doctors do not make the link between stress and illness.

>>most of the time I go over there but I feel like if I don't call or go over, he wouldn't call here or come over much<<
Quirky Girl, this is yet another sign that he's not your soulmate. Soulmates feel empathy for their partner and understand their partner's needs virtually without being told.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 10-27-2005 - 10:25pm

Quirky, I don't think you understand us. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I don't think anyone here is frustrated with you, at least not in the way you seem to be indicating. I certainly do not expect you're going to take this tremendous, life changing event and handle it easily or quickly. I wouldn't expect you to access it at a glance, make a hard and fast decision and go on about your day. It takes time to let it all sink in, to let realizations take hold, to be rational rather than emotional about it. Months isn't too long, not by a long shot. You've been hit across the head with a huge bat and you didn't see it coming. You're still reeling from the blow. What you knew, thought and believed have all been altered and that's not an easy thing to deal with. I understand all that and with that I say Yes, Quirky, you need to take some time. Give yourself permission NOT to make a decision right now, NOT to see or talk to him if you don't want to, give yourself permission to leave this alone for a while and not try to find a way to solve it by the end of the day, it's not going to happen.


Here's where maybe you can help me out. I don't understand how you can think you'll find support and help with a group whom you said make you worse -- more paranoid, more afraid. How can you get support from a group that in your mind does you harm? I have to say that I don't think coming to a group that advises the opposite of your counselor is not doing or your therapy any good at all. Taking in conflicting messages doesn't allow you to move forward. That's why I keep urging you to contact your therapist about the anxieties you're feeling now, and if you're questioning whether she's appropriate, make an appointment to see a therapist who's qualified in addiction.







~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown

my signature exchange partner:

Living Together








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-21-2005
Thu, 10-27-2005 - 11:40pm

It's after 11 and still no call back. What a jerk.

Aisha, would you mind telling me more about your holistic approach in the off topic section? I have been wondering about that and wanting to find someone who could help me in that direction but haven't had much luck. I agree with your sentiments about the strictly chemical approach in dealing with illness but we are seriously lacking in natural/holistic approaches or even anyone that specializes in it, unless I just don't know where to find them...

2nd life - I don't think my therapist would discourage me from going to a coda group. She's told me my last relationship was codependent and I have realized that even though I am fighting the tendency to be codependent in this relationship I think it's a habit for me (I looked up a post you put on here on codependency). I think maybe it's even what is keeping me in this relationship - it keeps me from looking at things logically instead of emotionally and I know I have trouble with keeping my own boundaries as I can see in retrospect from the beginning of this relationship. Unfortunately I am so emotionally involved now that it makes it even harder to turn and walk away, though my reasoning would probably tell me I should.

I think that being on the other board was feeding my fears as this one was about him and his possible addiction in the sense that it made me even crazier because I became more worried and consumed by what people were saying he might be doing and I might not know. Like I said I've backed off and just realized he's going to do whatever he wants to do regardless of what I say as he already made evident to me and I don't need to be reminded more of what he might be doing because it just made me more obsessive. I've realized that if he lied to me then he most certainly can lie to me now and I wouldn't know or he can lie to me in the future too. I just don't want to be lied to and don't want to think someone is - who does? So just being reminded I suppose of what "may" be happening wasn't good, however distancing myself from him, and not thinking about those things is good. If he's up to something, at this point I suppose I do and don't want to know, not sure which..lol! I just want to know that he's not lying anymore and unfortunately since he also told me that since he knows so much about computers that he would be able to hide his tracks no problem, it just made me more paranoid. I have still gone on and snooped on his computer and he's been erasing history and search memory but the temp internet files from the last month or so seem legit and clean so I don't think he is but again, I would never know right? He knows I snoop now anyway so he would definitely clean his tracks...but also the way he has acted these days and talking to him do make me tend more towards believing he's not doing anything.
Regardless, I don't even care anymore at this point. I just want to see now as I back off and give myself some time to regroup and re-evaluate things how much effort he is willing to put forth in this relationship and so far it's not looking good (was for a little while but since another blowout and I told him how mad I was at him for lying, asked if he cared, told him he's selfish and a coward for not trying to deal with this issue since he brought it to the table - yeah it was ugly) he's backed off and so have I and in all honesty I don't think he has any justification in backing off. He should be kissing my *ss!
So, I am going to Coda, if for no other reason than to rule out if I still am codependent or not and hopefully just to meet some other screwed up people like myself...lol! I do think I am though and at least trying to work through that I know will be helpful for my own independence and drawing lines and boundaries in my relationships. Sometimes the hardest thing is feeling like there is no one else to relate to your situation (with friends and acquaintances in everyday life) so maybe by seeking some out I'll develop more of a support system for myself.
I am also going to take your recommendation about looking for a therapist licensed in addiction regardless of whether my bf decides to go talk to someone or not. Oh and btw I did bring up him going to a SA counselor or group and he says he doesn't think he was addicted and doesn't need to go but is actually wanting to go back to a different group like Narcanon, or alanon (though he's not an alcoholic) but something like that where he can be supported by other recovering addicts (which is a good sign).
But his problems are his and unfortunately they've made mine a lot bigger but I'm also learning more about myself in the process and I think I'm trying to make the right steps in helping myself in the ways that I am able to. Whatever he decides to do is his own decision, but I think the test will come not only from me distancing myself and processing my feelings but also how much effort he puts forth because I know this will tell me a lot and ultimately may be the tell-tale sign that this relationship needs to end or will just whither away to nothing...
goodnight all, I gotta go to sleep. Will probably be back tomorrow as the saga continues...
these...
are the days...
of our lives...!!!