rollercoaster ride

iVillage Member
Registered: 08-18-2006
rollercoaster ride
10
Thu, 09-21-2006 - 9:35am
I need some advice.
I have posted here before...and am still struggling with my one year marriage (second for both of us...I'm pregnant (7 mos)....
My h has a very high pressure job in which he works very long hours and has extreme stress. We have had a very volatile relationship in the past...with my children and I even moving out once in February because he said "it wasn't working out". When I found out I was pregnant, we went to counseling etc...and moved back in together in June. WE are still having the same issues...Me being very insecure (especially now in my current state) and his extreme anger..in which he becomes very verbally abusive. He says my insecurity and childish behaviors are driving him away...and I tell him his name calling, belittling, criticizing my children, and cruelty followed by the silent treatment are wearing me down as well. He refuses to accept any ownership of our problems..and truly believes if I would just work on "my issues" things would run smoothly--he has told me so. Recently, I got upset b.c. he went up to the office--alone--on a sunday with a co-worker he has called "very attractive"...they had dinner and worked. He said they were going to work until 8..He came home at ten..and then called my concerns "stupid" "unfounded" and "childish".
Anyway..last night he told me he feels I treat him like sh**, that he does not deserve all the stress and frustration I reap on him on a daily basis. He says I'm immature, juvenile..and he's very tired of my continuing bad behavior. He then asked me to sleep somewhere besides our bed b.c. "he didn't want me in there"...I refused..so he then said "well, you might just want to find somewhere else to sleep on a permanent basis.." He then said he was not taking me on a trip we had planned for next weekend b.c. I "just think I'm entitled to good things when I'mm not even a nice person."..that it's all "what's in it for me"...etc and I'm "raising my daughters the exact same way".
I hardly slept last night and woke today numb. I am tired of the constant verbal barbs...and I am sick and tired of him threatening to kick me and my children out everytime something goes wrong........He e-mailed me this morning and said he wanted to just forget the comments he made...that our children..and our baby coming are depending on our "logic and maturity"..and we need to get past this. I responded that I didn't want to discuss his "comments either..I apologized for causing him stress and told him I would no longer contact him during working hours. I also said I was going to remain calm and unemotional from now on when dealing with this "marriage". I feel it's my only choice.
He is now angry again. I'm really wondering if it's even worth it.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Thu, 09-21-2006 - 10:13am

Wow, that's a real doozy.

I understand that since you are pregnant, you feel the need to try. Or felt the need to try. Are you still in counseling? If so, what does your counselor say about all this?

Your fears are NEVER stupid and childish. They are your feelings. I'm going to read your other post but I just wanted to say that besides the damage to you, your daughters are getting a REALLY bad view of what to expect. And this baby, if she's a girl will get the same thing. And if he's a boy, expect a copy of your H. Even if your son were to dislike your H and the way he is, he would act that way because that will be his rolemodel.

You do NOT have to settle for this. If he won't even take responsibility for any of it then it WILL NOT change. Stop waiting for him to want to change for you and because he loves you. Get a counselor, again, for you, and go. Work on you and your feelings and get to a place of strength where you can decide to do what you want, when you want, because it's the best thing/what you want for you and your children.

Jen

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 09-21-2006 - 11:20am

Mrsm2005, I know you've posted on the Toxic Relationships board recently, but don't recall you here, and don't find a previous post for you either; unless you posted under a different user name?


I'm at work and won't be able to really read or respond to your post until tonight, but I'm providing the link to your post on the Toxic Relationships board so that those who are responding to you here have a better understanding of your situation:


FIX IT MYSELF??








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 09-21-2006 - 11:38pm
Mrsm2005, your post here is much more concerning and alarming than your Toxic Relationships post, but then you went into more detail here.


I have a question I'd like to ask before going further. Are you in counseling on your own, without your husband? What does your counselor think about your assessment of your "faults" and what does the counselor think about your husband's behavior and "faults". I ask because you've said you are very insecure, but went on to describe a situation in which being insecure (suspicious) is very appropriate. I'm also wondering if you'd be willing to make an appointment with a therapist who specializes in domestic abuse/violence? I ask because you've also said your husband has extreme anger and is verbally abusive. In cases of abuse, "regular" counselors often don't see the abuse because they've had no training in that area. "Regular" counselors are trained to assume both parties want things to be better, both parties are willing to work to make it better and both parties have a share of blame in the problems. The problem is, in abuse the victim is made to feel it is partially her fault, but in reality there is nothing she can do and the therapy only has her feeling more to blame and gives her husband more ammunition to use against her. Since you see his verbal attacks as abuse, I'm certain that it is, and if it's abuse, a "regular" therapist isn't appropriate, and couples counseling is not at all advisable; in fact, an abuse therapist would refuse to work with a couple, not only is it not helpful or appropriate, it's damaging.

I'm very concerned about what your children are growing up with -- living in an abusive situation, whether it's verbal, emotional, physical or other, is a very damaging place to be, even if it's not for long. Please consider your health and well being as well as the health and well being of your children in considering the advisability of staying in that situation.








~ cl-2nd_life

"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 08-18-2006
Fri, 09-22-2006 - 7:36am
Thanks for the input, 2nd life....I have been in marriage counseling with h...but discontinued b.c. I felt it only fueled the anger and the therapist was serving only as a referee--not as someone providing solutions or advice. I was not aware there were therapists specializing in verbal/domestic abuse...I am going to do some research and find one immediately to begin counseling. I also just read the book "why does he do that" about verbally abusive, angry men. It was very helpful and provided me with some peace. I am fully aware of the destructive nature of this relationship and am actively taking steps to remedy my situation. Thanks for all the help!!
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-20-2006
Sun, 09-24-2006 - 7:48pm
Please, Please, Please leave now! He will not change, I am telling you. It is not worth it to ruin your life!
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 09-25-2006 - 2:07am
Mrsm, contact your local women's shelter, or call your local (or national) abuse/dv hotline for a referral to an abuse counselor. By going through those channels you're sure to be referred to someone good (local women's abuse centers wouldn't stick with someone who's bad or ineffective), the referral will get you free counseling and will hook you up with some tremendous support.


Your experience in couples counseling is exactly what most typically happens when abusive situations enter couples counseling. But then, you've read Lundy Bancroft's book, you already know that as he discusses couples counseling in it. And since you've read Bancroft's book, you also know that your husband is abusive and that you are not at fault. In other words, whether you are insecure, suspicious, have an "all about me" mindset or not is not an issue. Whether you are those things or not doesn't change the fact that he is abusive, and that he would be abusive if you weren't those things. In fact, if you turned yourself into a perfect person, he'd continue to find fault. It is not you, it is him, and whatever you may or may not be, doesn't change the abuse and doesn't make you responsible for it, to blame for it, and it isn't something you can stop or change in any way.


Are you reading/posting on the Dealing With Domestic Abuse board and reading through the articles and informational posts on the >Domestic Abuse Board's Homepage ? If not, I strongly urge you to start, you'll benefit greatly from the information, support and inspiration you'll find there.








~ cl-2nd_life

"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-17-2006
Mon, 09-25-2006 - 9:31pm

Hi there,

I am sorry to hear about your situation. Unfortunately, I can relate all to well to many of the issues you are dealing with. I have been married for three years (been together for six) - first marriage for both of us - but my husband has a 10-year old daughter from a previous relationship who lives with us. I am eight months pregnant with our first child together, a boy.

My husband has unexpected mood swings and can be verbally abusive (just two days ago he told me I needed serious help just because I told him I wouldn't stand for how he was speaking to me) as well and refuses to recognize how his behavior is the root cause of our issues. I call him Jekyl and Hyde and point on how he turns on me out of the blue - and I feel like I've been sideswiped. I in turn respond to the abuse by being verbally abusive back, which of course is never helpful. We have been together for six years, and although things have gotten somewhat better, our fights explode and escalate very quickly over seemingly minor things because there is so much underlying resentment and past hurt.

I too have left several times before, but never for more than two weeks. And each time, we make a commitment to change our relationship and within a week or so, the bad habits and behaviors come back, and then he refuses to work on anything or talk about what's happening. I am the one who is constantly trying to fix things. I have tried writing him letters, emails, etc. We have been to a total of four counselors and gone to marriage seminars. And it just feels like Ground Hog Day and that the fights, days without speaking, and issues continue. Quite frankly, I don't think the counseling has helped much.

All I can say is I can emphathize with what you are going through - you probably feel torn as to whether you give up on the marriage completely or stick it out and try and work through the issues. I know that if I wasn't pregnant, I would probably give up eventually because it is just far too hard and I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel. And I am really questioning what the point is when I am unhappy in the marriage more often than I am happy/content.

The trouble is I do love my husband and overall he is a good man and a good father. He is just a really bad communicator and has some issues that he refuses to deal with. But then again, I don't know many men who are first in line to admit their faults and deal with them.

How am I coping? Doing exactly what you are doing. Remaining calm ... and quite frankly avoiding him and trying to enjoy some time on my own before the baby comes. It makes me sad that we aren't spending this time together as a couple enjoying the time left before we become parents. Very disappointing. I am very worried that our relationship will deteriorate further when the baby comes when there's little time to focus on our issues ...

One day at a time I guess.

Good luck to you ... you are in my thoughts.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Mon, 09-25-2006 - 11:34pm
Welcome to the board, Cmmisto ~


I'm sorry to hear the situation you're in. I want you to know that someone who "can be verbally abusive" is abusive, period. Very few, if any abusers are abusive 100% of the time, I'd say most have abusive episodes much less than 50% of the time. No abuse is acceptable, it's all damaging and it doesn't end. You nailed it when you likened him to Jekyll/Hyde; that's a very common way for abusive men to be described, my ex (who was also verbally and emotionally abusive) was a prime example. It' very common --even normal in abusers. I continue to find it interesting that women who don't recognize their husbands and boyfriends as abusive come up with that same descriptor though.


I'd also like to say that fighting back is not being abusive and doesn't make you "just as bad as him" or "an equal contributor to the problem". Fighting back is normal and understandable, but it is something abusers often point to in "proving" that you're to blame or just as much to blame as they are. I'm also betting counselors you've been to have had you look at what you're doing to contribute to the problem. That's why couples counselors and couples counseling is contraindicated in abusive situations. Couples counselors are not trained to deal with abuse, they have been trained to assume and expect that both parties have a vested interest in resolving the issue and that both parties have a share in the "blame". Not so in abuse. Here's a post that explains very well why couples counseling is not appropriate in abuse:


"Regular" vs. DV Counseling


You've mentioned that you leave for a few weeks, then return. I'm betting a big part of your return is due to his apologies, his assurance things will be different, his attitude about the whole thing. That is also common in abusers, it's called the "Sweet Baby Syndrome". When you leave he needs to change his tune in order to get you to come back, once you're back and things are a little more solid (a few weeks time) he goes back to his same old behavior. It's very common and typical. Here's a post that describes the "syndrome":


Sweet Baby Syndrome (how he gets to come back)


You mention concern that your relationship will further deteriorate under the strain of a child. Have you considered what growing up in an abusive home will do to the child? Your baby will grow up hearing daddy verbally abusing mommy, he'll grow up learning that's how men talk to women, that's what women deserve and that's what women should expect. When he's between 9 and 12 you can expect him to start treating you the same way he's observed his dad treating you, that's how it goes. More than that, he's growing up thinking abuse is normal, that verbal attacks are normal. He'll grow up to repeat the pattern and be a verbally abusive man himself. That's one of the cycles of abuse.


I understand that you love your husband, but loving him won't change who he is, what he is, what he believes and how he operates. The statistics on abusers are quite dismal, the rate of abusers who change and become non-abusive is 1%, and that total includes those who are in intensive domestic abuse treatment. In other words, it's most likely that your husband being better is probably where he is on the abuse cycle right now (he's on the "good" part) and it will swing back around to bad. In response to your statement "But then again, I don't know many men who are first in line to admit their faults and deal with them." The majority of men are more than willing to admit their faults and deal with them. Those who aren't should be avoided because you can't have a relationship with someone who isn't willing to do his share or take responsibility for his portion of it.

I understand where you are, walking on eggshells, trying not to make waves, stir up "trouble", trying to figure out what is the "right" thing to say so you don't start a "problem", I've been there myself. That's no way to live, being controlled by the threat of rage, being afraid to be a real person, speak your mind, make mistakes, expect your spouse to be responsible for his share of things. That's prison, not a relationship. There is nothing fair or partnership based in that, and since you don't know when it will come or go, it's impossible to know when you can "play" normal marriage and when you have to suck it up and do it all behind the scenes for fear of unleashing Mr. Hyde.

I suggest you take a look at the Dealing With Domestic Abuse board. You'll find a lot of women who are in or have been in situations just like yours. Ask them questions, they'll be happy to offer you advice, suggestions and encouragement. Read the posts that are there, both current and archived ones, there's a lot of inspiration and knowledge there. Also read the Domestic Abuse Board's Homepage , it's filled with articles and information that will be very insightful to you. It's there that I first realized my ex had been verbally abusive. Even read the articles that don't seem to pertain to your situation, you'd be surprised how many places you'll find your husband's behavior fitting into and you'll learn a lot about the dynamics of verbal abuse and abuse in general. Here are some articles from their homepage to get you started:


What is Verbal Abuse? (please take the time to read the intro, it's slow but it's sooo right on)
Signs of Potential Abuse: Need to Know
Traits of an Abusive Personality
Know What Domestic Violence Is
Power and Control
Extensive DV Checklist
Brainwashing
More on Brainwashing
General Characteristics of Verbal Abuse
The Power of Verbal Abusers Reality
Common Characteristics (Victim/Abuser)
The Mind of an Abuser
Is Your Relationship Healthy?


I'd also urge you to read "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft . Bancroft is a therapist who specifically treats abusive men. His book is written for the women who are in relationships with abusive men, to give them an understanding of how these men think and what their thought process is. It's very enlightening, you'll understand a lot more about what you're dealing with by reading the book.

Huge hugs, Cmmisto, I know what you're going through, I've been there myself.








~ cl-2nd_life

"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-20-2006
Tue, 09-26-2006 - 3:02pm

What you are describing is a very abusive relationship. I just left my abusive relationship and my ex is exactly like your husband. This man will wear down your self esteem and self worth until they are non existant. That is what happened to me, I never wanted to listen to anyone while I was with him. It will only get worse, believe me when I say this.

this man refuses to take responsibility for anything. He will blame everything on YOU, he will criticise everything you do, from how you clean to how you cook, Your beliefs and values will never be good enough for him. My ex used to say that I played constant mind games and needed to be babbied constantly.

Your man has manipulation issues, he has a way to make you feel guilty about who you are adn he will crush your character until there is nothing left.

The book Why does he do that? by Lundi bancroft is a real eye opener. I just started reading this book, it is incredible and will really help you.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Wed, 09-27-2006 - 1:31am
Great post, Rosie ~ and if I haven't said it before, congratulations on having the courage to leave your abuse. You have much to be proud of and the rest of your life without abuse to celebrate it.








~ cl-2nd_life

"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."

~ Author unknown








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"