the saga continues

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
the saga continues
6
Thu, 03-27-2003 - 12:52pm
It's been a week now since the whole thing started. My bf received the phone call that set this whole thing off last Thursday. I questioned him about it on Friday and he stuck to his story. On Monday I called him to break it off.

He called me on Tuesday and begged me not to end the relationship and promised to do whatever was necessary to make it work. He also confesed about the phone call. He said that it was a call from a female friend that he hadn't spoken to in a while. He said that when he saw the phone number he didn't recognize it and when he realized who it was he was caught off guard. He said that he lied because he thought I would be upset. I believed him because I've done the same thing. I just never got caught. I lied because I knew he hated one of my guy friends. Eventually, I ended the friendship.

I guess I was vulnerable, instead of standing my ground I said I would think about getting back together. Now we're in limbo. We are not together but we are not broken up. I told him that I definitely did not want to see him anytime soon but that we could still keep in touch over the phone. I told him all the reasons why I thought our relationship wasn't working and what I expected of him. I told him that I just can't trust his promises that he is going to change. I told him that I need to see the proof of his changes first.

My friends and my parents have basically told me I'm stupid for even giving him a second thought. Now that I don't have them to turn to I feel more isolated then ever. I know that I maybe making a huge mistake by even talking to him but I did it anyways.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sat, 03-29-2003 - 12:50am
Sassafrass>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Huge apologies for not responding for so long at a time when you were most in need. The new format had me scrambling to find ways to work with it in order to help eveyone on the board. I was forced to choose between answering your post or finding answers for everyone. Not much help to you, I know, and I am sorry.

It's been a few days since you posted. Is there anything new or does your last post still apply? I have some questions for you and I PROMISE I'll respond promptly to your answers (barring an unforseen personal emergency).

You told him all the reasons you don't think your relationship's working, what are those reasons? You told him what you expect of him, what DO you expect of him? What did you tell him? You said you'd done something similar to the story he gave you about this girl and that you gave up your friendship because your boyfriend didn't like him. Why did you do that? Don't you think you're entitled to having friends of your own choosing and preference? He said her call caught him off guard, if hearing from her is so foreign to him, why was her number hand-written on his list of phone numbers? What are you trying to achieve by not being together (not wanting to be together), but still staying in contact by phone? If you need time to think, to be on your own, contact will keep you confused. Why do your friends and family think you're nuts for going back to him? Just for this problem or more? If it's more, what is it? FINALLY - you asked on the archived board about finding old posts, I responded but never heard from you, what is it you're looking for and I'll do everything I can to help you - I can probably get you what you're looking for if I just know what it is.

Honestly, from what you've said it sounds like you want to break up, but you're afraid to because you don't want to be alone so you're allowing him to contact you so he can "persuade" you to get back together.

I've asked a lot of hard questions, I know. But I wouldn't be doing you any good if I forgot all about what's gone before and just told you that everything's going to be fine and you did the right thing, even if it is what you want to hear. Maybe by thinking about and answering my questions you'll find some answers to your turmoil?

I'll be watching for your response and I am sorry for your pain. We've all been there, we know how it feels.

cl-2nd_life


Edited 3/29/2003 1:53:10 AM ET by cl-2nd_life








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sat, 03-29-2003 - 9:08am
Thank you for taking the time to read my posts and respond. I know things must be very hectic for you and I appreciate your time. I attempted another post before but I guess it got lost. maybe this time it will come out a little more succinct.Nothing much has changed since my last post. My parents and friends suggested that I take a few weeks off from the relationship to think and to see if he is really willing to change the things he said he was going to change. I still haven't seen my bf but we've been talking on the phone. Although the time off is good talking to him has been upsetting to me sometimes. It's like a roller coaster of emotions.

I said that I've done the same thing with a male friend of mine we well call Greg. It was actually a friend from a long time ago. We've actually known each other for atleast 12 years. It wasn't always a good friendship though. First we were friends then it could've been more than friends that we were friends again. We just went back and forth. Many times before I even met my boyfriend I said that I just didn't even want to be friends with Greg anymore because of the back and forth. Of course, as soon as I started dating someone Greg started actively persuing me. I lied and told my boyfriend that we had always been just friends. My bf and I just started dating and it wasn't serious. He never did believe me and as the relationship became more serious I didn't feellike I could go back and reveal the truth. Greg kept persuing me even though I told him that I was dating someone and asked him to stop. Eventually I stopped talking to him altogether. Even if I broke up with my boyfriend now, I'd have no desire to pick up that friendship again. Actually my relationship was the excuse I had always been looking for to end the friendship.

Two things bother me about our relationship the most. First he has been unemployed for about a year. This makes me very uncomfortable. He says that he has applied to hundreds iof jobs but he isn't having any luck. I feel like I would be flipping hamburgers by now instead of living off of unemployment but he says flipping hamburgers doesn't pay as much as unemployment so what's the point. I just don't know if he's lazy or if it really is that hard for him. This is scary- can I even consider a future (marriage and children) with a man that can be unemployed for so long. This also gets him down and I am tired of telling him things will look up soon. Maybe they won't look up soon, I mean it's been a year. I am also sick of hearing "he hasn't got a job yet?" from my parents and friends.

The second big problem is that he doesn't feel comfortable with me hanging out with his friends. This basically just hurts my feelings. He is always welcome with me and my friends and I can't help but think he is ashamed of me. He has made many excuses and says that it is the other way around he is ashamed of his friends. At one point he siad that he was afraid that wouldn't make me feel comfortable. Which is true because whenever I have been around them i definitely feel excluded. But I always thought if we give it some time or if I had the chance to get to know them...Then he said that he feels uncomfortable because some of his exes still hang around them. Well you know it did not make me happy to think that he was still hanging out with his exes and didn't want me around. then it was I don't want you to become yet another ex that still hangs around. then it was I was scared that you'd like one of my friends more than you like me since it has happened before. Of course now he says he doesn't care if it makes him uncomfortable I am always welcome since I am more important than any of them. I just don't understand it. the longer we've been together the worse this problem gets. the first couple moths of this relationship it didn't seem to be a problem at all.

The last time we almost split up we went to counseling. I told him that I was disappointed because although he went to all the sessions he didn't even attempt to read the book that was recommended. Now he tells me that he has the book and he's reading it and taking notes. The point of this time off was to see if he really intended to change. but now it seems silly. How is three weeks going to tell me if he really intends to change?

We definitely have big problems but he is a wonderful man. Although you couldn't tell it form these posts. I love him and I want to make it work if possible. I know that if end the relationship I will eventually get over him and meet someone else. I can see that now even the little bit of time we've been apart. But I'm determined to make it work if possible. Is there any hope? I was able to find my old log in from my first post ever. I thought by looking up other posts I could remember all the other battles that we had been through. We've been on the edge many times before and they always seem like the end of the world. If you could find any posts for johnsone2001 I would appreciate it. Maybe those will show me how much or how little we've grown in the last two years.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sun, 03-30-2003 - 10:36am
It's been 10 days since the last episode with me and my bf. I told him that I need some time to think about our relationship and boy have I been thinking. I think I keep coming back to this board because it helps me to spell it all out instead of keeping it all in my head.

If anybody is out there tell me if this makes any sense. My boyfriend and I have had arguments like any other couple and most of the time we work things out. What actually happens is that I complain about something and my bf tries to fix it. He usually doesn't get it right the first time but he keeps trying and I see a lot of improvement. My bf never complains about me. Never. He says that I'm perfect excpet for the times that I complain about him. The only two things that have never gotten resolved are the two things I mentioned in my last post. He doesn't feel comfortable with me hangingout with his friends and he is unemployed.

Now matter what else he does I think I'm always mad about these two things. I think I'm always mad about these things under the surface. Then if we get in a fight or if he just gets on my nerves as use that situation as an excuse to get away from him because I'm mad about those two other things.

It's funny, I'm not even upset about the phone call that started this whole thing off anymore. It might be stupid but I honestly believe that the girl was really an old friend maybe an old girlfriend but someone he doesn't see anymore. I absolutely have faitht that he has not cheated on me and does not intend to cheat on me. I just want him to get a bleeping job for crying out loud.

I also feel like the friend thing can be solved pretty easily but the job thing that is the kicker. I don't even understand why it has been so long. I don't think he's afraid of working or that he is too lazy. I honestly believe that if someone walked up to him and offered him the crappiest job he would take it just to get back to work. But for some reason he can't go out and find the job himself. Before all this happened my father offered him some landscaping work. Dragging branches, cutting wood, not fun stuff. He was all for it but never once did it occur to him to ask for the work himself.

I really do love this man. I want a future with him. Marriage, kids, etc. he just can't give me the security I need. I think this is also exacerbated by the fact that I've always made more money than him and I have a college education and he doesn't. I've always told him that I didn't care if he pumped gas for a living as long as he was doing something but I still think he gets down on himself.

Oh well, just thinking out loud.

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 03-30-2003 - 3:08pm
Aw, Sassafrass, I'm so sorry you're needing feedback and finding none>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Changes in the board format took time away and kept the regulars away too, now it's the weekend, generally a slow time on the board and a busy time for me. *sigh* I always need 'one more day off' to get everything done I need and want to do. In about 20 minutes I have to leave to pick up my daughter whose been staying with her best friend from out of town. I may be gone most of the day, not sure on that - depends on whether I have to entertain my daughter and her best friend downtown while her friend's parents take care of some things in town. That being the case, my response to you may be in bits and pieces, in several posts. That way, at least you'll have some feedback, just not the whole works in one shot. Considering the length of most of my posts, maybe that's a good thing, lol!

You asked about your previous posts, I've gathered them together for your review and don't think I've missed any:



Oct. 12, 2001 post: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlcouplescou&msg=4492.1&ctx=4194304

Oct. 15, 2001 post: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlcouplescou&msg=4505.1&ctx=4194304

Feb. 6, 2002 post: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlcouplescou&msg=5129.1&ctx=4194304

Feb.5, 2002 post: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlcouplescou&msg=5121.1&ctx=4194304

Jan. 30, 2002 post: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlcouplescou&msg=5095.1&ctx=4194304

Jan. 31, 2002 post: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlcouplescou&msg=5099.1&ctx=4194304

May 23, 2002 post: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlcouplescou&msg=5486.1&ctx=4194304

May 22, 2002 post: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlcouplescou&msg=5483.1&ctx=4194304

Jan. 24, 2003: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlcouplescou&msg=578.1&ctx=4194304

Feb 20, 2003: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlcouplescou&msg=6260.1&ctx=4194304

March 22, 2003: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlcouplescou&msg=6371.1&ctx=4194304

March 22, 2003: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlcouplescou&msg=6372.1&ctx=4194304

March 25, 2003: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlcouplescou&msg=6382.1&ctx=4194304

March 27, 2003: http://messageboards.ivillage.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=iv-rlcouplescou&msg=6394.1&ctx=0

I have to say that I think you may now be doing what's typical to do during a time like this, soften the bad times, while remembering the good mych stronger. You mention two issues that haven't been resolved and say that you're always the one complaining, that he always tries to fix it and he says you're "perfect". You've recently said, however, that in counseling he 'goes through the motions' but doesn't make a real effort to make changes. Sorry, but that's huge. The fact that he reports reading the book feverently now only says he's scrambling to appease you. That activity will slow to a screeching halt once you're back together, make no mistake about that.

I've got to go -- be back later!

cl-2nd_life








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
Sun, 03-30-2003 - 3:31pm
wow. i just read through all of my old posts. seems like a lot to go through in such a short time. one might think that after reading all that i'd be able to give up. then why is it that i'm not ready to give up. all the things i posted about previously have all worked themselves out except the work and friends issue. however those two issues have been bothering me for over a year now. i guess i'll just wait and think some more.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Sun, 03-30-2003 - 6:06pm
I'm back! Her friend's family decided to keep her with them rather than have her occupied elsewhere while they ran their errands --yea!!!!

Your posts look a little overwhelming, huh? Two things for you to ask yourself about in relation to the posts; did you post them because you were having trouble reaching resolution or just to get an outside view? Seems to me if these had been easy fixes at the time you wouldn't have bothered to post about them, if they weren't easy fixes, even if they've since been resolved, it speaks to more struggle than necessary to reach problem resolution. Just something to think about.

I don't think staying in contact is doing anything but hampering your ability to consider all this from a step-back position, which is what you need to consider this. Talking only keeps you more confused and conflicted, unable to consider this from a more logical standpoint. Like I said before though, I get the feeling that's exactly what you want, to give him the opportunity to persuade you to stay.

Your family and friends all think you should end this relationship. That's huge. They have the advantage of knowing you and him more intimately and have had years of observation of both of you and your relationship to base their judgment on. Granted, it's your life and not theirs, but to not seriously consider their thoughts is to deny the truth. You've said before that you've considered ending the relationship yourself many times, if this relationship was good, I doubt you'd be trying to sabotage it, would you?

I know these are difficult times for job hunting. What I wonder though, is how hard is he looking? Last year I was looking to relocate, which meant I needed to find a job in another city. It took real work and dedication, but I got it. I spent Sunday scanning the want ads, circling every ad that remotely looked like one I wanted (a foot in the door was good enough for me and in these times being picky wouldn't get me a job) I put out 10-20 faxed resumes per day, mailed approximately another 10 per day and sent more by email. I did this after my 8-5 job and it was all I did on my off time. Interviewers always informed me I was one of approximately 100 applicants, which told me I needed to work harder to achieve my goal. It took me 2 months, but I finally got my job; not only did I get *a* job, I managed to land *the* job that I knew was absolutely PERFECT for me. So yep, times are tough, it just means you have to work harder to get where you want to be. The fact that he's been unemployed for so long isn't good. An earlier post of yours said he didn't want to take some jobs because unemployment paid more. As someone who works in HR, surely you've been in on interviews and had a hand in hiring. Who impresses you more, someone who's been unemployed for a long period or someone who was willing to work at a job below his/her standard in order to remain employed? The reason you admire the one who works 'flipping burgers' is because it says volumes about their work ethics, drive and desire. Coincidentally, my ex was also unemployed for a year at one point and wouldn't consider a McDonald's job because it was beneath him.

I have to tell you too, your saying you are always the one with the complaints while he says everything's great smacks me hard of my previous marriage. *I* was the only one who had complaints, wasn't happy or satisfied, and it played on my mind. Was I too hard to please? Did I expect too much? Nah, none of those things was true. What was true was that there were many things very wrong with our relationship. I wanted a quality, good relationship while he was satisfied with a poor relationship that had little to none of the things that I held as important in a relationship. Different desires, different core values, different expectations. It didn't mean he was wrong, he was entitled to his views on what made a 'good' relationship, but it didn't mean I was wrong either, we were just different. Unfortunately, it also meant being together made me frustrated, unhappy and just plain miserable much of the time while he was happy as a clam with what I considered the dregs of a relationship. I'll point out that once we finally split his relationships continued to be poor IMHO. I, on the other hand found that I was RIGHT! Relationships not only should be as I expected, the COULD BE! Finding someone who's views and standards on relationships was compatible to my own made all the difference in the world. I was happy -- elated! A relationship in which you felt good, fulfilled and happy! Wow! Who knew?

During my marriage, I also wondered how could I have so much trouble with the relationship when he was happy with it? My husband also did little to do anything about problems until I'd had it and wanted him to leave, only then was he willing to do whatever it took to make things right. What I finally realized (duh, hello!) is that this is not the motivation that real change comes from. Once I'd agreed to give him 'one more chance' he'd make an attempt at whatever was needed, but it didn't result in a change for more than a short time. Why? Because in order to change *your* behavior or attitude YOU have to want it for YOU. He didn't, his reason was to appease me, and none of us make life changes because someone else wants us to.

The bottom line is this: good relationship aren't perfect, they have their share of problems and conflicts, BUT those problems are dealt with, settled and the relationship moves on without them in a short period of time. Good relationships aren't that much work, they really aren't. When my current (and last!) husband asked me to marry him, I honestly didn't care whether we married or not, but there was never any question in my mind that this relationship was the right one, no question at all, not even a hint of a doubt. I think when it's right you know it.

cl-2nd_life








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"