soul searching and very confused adv pls
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soul searching and very confused adv pls
| Mon, 07-24-2006 - 11:00pm |
thank you all in advance for the advise... which i really need right now.
i have been in a relationship with SO for over 7 years. we had our first child 2 yrs ago.
I guess i was one of those girls raised to be independant, yet raised to think that everything would work out any way that I made it work out... confusing? sorry...
I love my boyfriend, and yes we have had our problems and some. Since we have been togather since early ages, now looking back, it seems normal.
But my family doesnt seem to think so. they all have been blessed with "perfect" relationships and think that he is scum.
he did run out alot for the first 3 years and then once the baby was born, he stayed home, but was emotionally unavailable. He was not raised in the best conditions, but he has a good heart and he means well even though he has screwed up with me MANY times...
For the past 6 months, baby and I have been living with mom, cause he has been trying to get his school out of the way so that he could persue what he really wanted career wise.... all this time, mom (and whole family) says he is scum for not taking care of his responsibility, yes that is hard to hear, but i know what he is really trying to accomplish.
well, him and my sister got into an arguement about this which is a FIRST. I got really upset with him for lashing out at my family and came to stay with my Dad 1000 miles away and have been here for a month.
Well, my Boyfriend got thru his school and is working now, calling me everyday wanting me and the baby to come back to him.
I just dont know what to do. I love him, and i see a big change in him, but my family HATES him and that means something to me. I am scared that if i tell my DAd that i am going back, that they will hate me, and him, and that isnt what i want.
I dont know if i should even go back? is this just my family putting stuff in my head, and why do i care what they think so much when it comes to "my family" (boyfriend and son).
Please give any advise you can! thanks
i have been in a relationship with SO for over 7 years. we had our first child 2 yrs ago.
I guess i was one of those girls raised to be independant, yet raised to think that everything would work out any way that I made it work out... confusing? sorry...
I love my boyfriend, and yes we have had our problems and some. Since we have been togather since early ages, now looking back, it seems normal.
But my family doesnt seem to think so. they all have been blessed with "perfect" relationships and think that he is scum.
he did run out alot for the first 3 years and then once the baby was born, he stayed home, but was emotionally unavailable. He was not raised in the best conditions, but he has a good heart and he means well even though he has screwed up with me MANY times...
For the past 6 months, baby and I have been living with mom, cause he has been trying to get his school out of the way so that he could persue what he really wanted career wise.... all this time, mom (and whole family) says he is scum for not taking care of his responsibility, yes that is hard to hear, but i know what he is really trying to accomplish.
well, him and my sister got into an arguement about this which is a FIRST. I got really upset with him for lashing out at my family and came to stay with my Dad 1000 miles away and have been here for a month.
Well, my Boyfriend got thru his school and is working now, calling me everyday wanting me and the baby to come back to him.
I just dont know what to do. I love him, and i see a big change in him, but my family HATES him and that means something to me. I am scared that if i tell my DAd that i am going back, that they will hate me, and him, and that isnt what i want.
I dont know if i should even go back? is this just my family putting stuff in my head, and why do i care what they think so much when it comes to "my family" (boyfriend and son).
Please give any advise you can! thanks

You said, "I guess i was one of those girls raised to be independant, yet raised to think that everything would work out any way that I made it work out... confusing?" I don't think the statement is confusing at all, but I also don't think it's very realistic. You can only control your portion of the relationship, you can't control his portion, what he does. You can do everything in your power to "make it work out", but if he's not working on the same thing, your efforts will be for nothing. I stayed in my previous marriage for 17 years trying to do just what you're saying, "make it work out", despite my efforts, my husband continued to be who he was and did what he did. One person cannot make things work. I'll be checking back for your answers, once I have a better understanding, I'll be able to give you my thoughts and suggestions.
~ cl-2nd_life"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Hello 2nd Life,
thanks for the quick response... i will try to answer your questions with out the answers being too long... here goes...
1. You say you've had your problems, but it's important to have a clear understanding of what kind of problems you've had, if they've been resolved, and how.
Problems in the past were poor communication, lack of respect for each others needs, but over the years we have really been able to talk about things and realize what the other needs and what we were doing to hurt the other one, not just me, but him too... he really initiated it!!
2. You mentioned that he "ran out alot" before the baby was born. What does that mean? Did he go out with friends? Did he go out with other women? Did he just stop cold when the baby was born?
He was "out with friends" alot!! like 2-3 nights a week, out late, i hated him for it, and new he was "looking for something better" which he later admitted to and admitted that was the biggest mistake he ever made...
he stopped going out with his friends when the baby was born but started going to strip clubs regularly, was honest about it, and eventually he stopped, and started telling me how he wanted to make it "right" between us and stop doing the "wrong thing". which he did completely!! i was SHOCKED...
3. You said that he stayed home but was emotionally unavailable. Can you explain how that time was?
He was home, but locked away inside the room most of the day, or outside smoking cigs, it was very hard cause i really needed his help with the baby, but he has admitted that he didnt know what to do, he was not raised in a healthy enviroment, his step dad was a drug addict and mom was always out chasing step dad around instead of tending to her 5 kids, and he didnt have a clear picture of "family" but says now he will do anything to learn how to be the best for me and our son.
4. What other problems do you have?
other problems have worked themselves out over the years, besides financial difficulties now, which per his new job, should be resolved with in weeks.
5. You say you've been together since the early ages, how old are you both now?
I am 30, he is 28.
6. You moved in with your mother so that he could get his school out of the way, why was it necessary for you to leave for him to do that? 7.Who's idea was it for you to leave?
When his stepdad died in 2004 from all those years of drug use, we moved from our home in NYC to Florida with his mom to help her get situated near other family members and to have the baby in a different enviroment. We were both miserable in Florida and decided to move back to NY. We stayed with my mom in NY at first so that we could look for a place and he felt very uncomfortable living under her roof after 1 week of her throwing it up in his face, so he got himself a "room" while we got things situated. Getting situated took longer than i expected with his schooling but i agreed with him that he should go ahead and have this under his belt for our future security!
8. Who supports you, him and the baby?
he got a job as a taxi driver on the side to support his living and to give me $$ when i needed it, but mom was paying rent/bills.
9. Does your family generally have good advice, are they generally people who's opinions you respect?
I absolutely respect my family and their opinions. they do have my best interest in mind and unfortunately have heard alot more of the bad from me then good (i trust them enough to talk to them about hard times in our relationship which they really take too far and i have learned my lesson with that one).
10. You've been a bit vague about why your family doesn't like him, can you explain specifically what it is they don't like?
They dont think that he respects me, and in the past with his behavior I dont blame them, but they havent been around for our discussions lately and dont know how much he has changed for us! I tell them, but they say they will never believe that and all conspire against him, and all tell me how much i can do better, but i love him, and i see a HUGE change... it hurts me that they have this opinion of him.
I hope this has cleared things up for you, thanks again for your time and your input!!!
Sorry for the delay, Rab631, I logged off before you replied last night and work during the day so I'm not able to be back on the board until evenings.
I hope you don't mind sticking with this for a little bit, because I'm still not at all clear.
1. Problems. You stated what your problems were in a generic way, and didn't explain at all how you resolved them. You also indicated these problems were caused by both of you, but previously indicated that he was the problem.
2. "Running out alot". He was looking for other women 2-3 nights a week? And stopped cold because he wanted to do the right thing? First of all I have to tell you that kind of change for no reason isn't plausible and secondly, I can't imagine that you'd be happy to accept him back without worry, trust issues and some other serious issues to deal with before your relationship can begin to repair. You also didn't mention what was done to repair the damage that had been done.
3. Emotionally unavailable. It seems like you're indicating that he went from being completely unavailable and not at all a partner in parenting to emerging from it completely appropriate and available. Is that what you're saying? If so, I have to tell you that's not plausible either. People don't change who they are or how they are overnight, without huge struggle and a lot of time and work. You indicate the reason for his unavailability stems from his childhood. That's quite likely, our childhood shapes who we are and provides examples that we use as adults. His childhood would indicate his issues are very deep seated and will take a lot of therapy to resolve. Has he been through therapy?
4. Other Problems Since you indicate there were no other problems, I assume your family is concerned about the major issues you indicated in 2 and 3, or are there other issues (1) that you didn't mention? I want to be clear and understand, if the other issues are along the lines of financial struggles, I assume you worked together to make it work, rather than to argue or have one of you spending to the disapproval of the other.
6. Moving in with your mother. I'm still completely in the dark on this one. Your mother threw up the fact that he'd been staying there a week? Why? I don't understand why he found a room rather than find a place for the three of you? You agreed he he should have what under his belt for your future security? I don't understand how looking for a place can turn into six months of him living in his own place and you living with your mother, nor do I understand how that's helping him, you or your relationship.
8. Support. He's paying for himself but your mother is paying for you and the baby since you live there?
9 and 10. Family. Has your family always disliked him or did they grow to dislike him? You said your family feels he doesn't respect you but that they haven't been around him enough lately and don't know how much has changed. I'm confused by this. You indicated this change was two years ago, that would be plenty of time for your family to see that these changes are for real. I'm wondering if these changes you're talking about are a lot more recent than two years ago, when the baby was born. I also suspect that you're reservations about going back to him are about more than just how your family feels. You moved 1000 miles away from him a month ago because you were upset because he lashed out at your family. It sounds like there's a lot going on that you've left out. Also, how do they conspire against him? I have a feeling you feel that your family is right. Do you?
Something else that you've left out is how all the changes in him you mentioned came about. People don't just change overnight, nor do they change significantly by sheer will. Did he go through therapy? Did the two of you attend counseling?
I'm sorry this is so long and I'm sorry there are so many questions, but the situation isn't at all clear to me, and as long as it doesn't make sense, it's impossible to form an opinion at all.
~ cl-2nd_life"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."
~ Author unknown
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
Sorry for the delay in response... busy with a 2 year old and trying to get my life on track... tricky and new for me...
sorry about the lack of detail... i will try to answer all questions this time...
1. Problems. You stated what your problems were in a generic way, and didn't explain at all how you resolved them. You also indicated these problems were caused by both of you, but previously indicated that he was the problem.
ANSWER: well, i guess the problems stopped when he stopped having $$ to do anything. Now he has a job again, and i know the "going out" will start again. I know that i am he is just saying he's stopped doing that cause he has temporarily due to lack of funds. Maybe that's my gut telling me that, or maybe he actually has changed. Today, I dont feel so trusting of that. I am so distrusting of him due to past experience with him. He is very insecure and demands UNBELIEVABLE amounts of attention. He goes thru highs and lows so I think he is BiPolar, and I dont know what he does behind my back when he is out there, besided the strip clubs, he has never said. I don't trust him with my feelings when it comes to the level of respect that I deserve, the I have never felt like i am getting out of it what I am putting in, and I dont think i will ever feel like my son can have a "normal" upbringing as long as i stay with him. It's just rough, cause this is the "dream" that I have and i hate being a quitter when it comes to relationships. I feel like I love him so much, have loved him UNCONDITIONALLY so far, and now he says that he recognizes that.
2. "Running out alot". He was looking for other women 2-3 nights a week? And stopped cold because he wanted to do the right thing? First of all I have to tell you that kind of change for no reason isn't plausible and secondly, I can't imagine that you'd be happy to accept him back without worry, trust issues and some other serious issues to deal with before your relationship can begin to repair. You also didn't mention what was done to repair the damage that had been done.
Answer: Well the damage has never officially been repaired on my end. He begs me daily to accept him back and promises that all is going to be different now. I am really really wanting for that to be the way it is. But due to my trust issues with him, even after months of counceling (for me) I have just felt more numb towards him. I just feel so bad leaving him cause he is "familiar" (one of my friends says) and I have been concerned for nothing but his needs for the past 7+ years. I have more of a guilty concience leaving him alone, then leaving and having a healthy life immediately with my son. Am I sick??? And do you really believe that without counciling for him(cause his ego would never allow him to do that) that a normal/healthy relationship is out there for us?
3. Emotionally unavailable. It seems like you're indicating that he went from being completely unavailable and not at all a partner in parenting to emerging from it completely appropriate and available. Is that what you're saying? If so, I have to tell you that's not plausible either. People don't change who they are or how they are overnight, without huge struggle and a lot of time and work. You indicate the reason for his unavailability stems from his childhood. That's quite likely, our childhood shapes who we are and provides examples that we use as adults. His childhood would indicate his issues are very deep seated and will take a lot of therapy to resolve. Has he been through therapy?
Answer: No therapy, no chance of getting him in it. I have suggested it for years. He is TOO PROUD, and to immature at the moment. But I have however, seen a change in maturity level, he has gotten better. I just hope that he is on a "forward" moving track. really no way to tell but time.
He has not been around any better for the parenting, and just tries to tell me how he wants to and how he wants us to have a wonderful life and healthy happy relationship. This is even before I left. He was accusing me of cheating at the end, becuase I really shut him out and was really emotionless towards him, but no cheating. I have really been struggling with depression myself, been thru therapy since January 06. Think he is the cause. maybe built up anger and resentment towards him. He has come to me crying begging me to please let it go so that we can have a loving relationship again, i just cant. I feel like there is too much water under that bridge already, but feel guilty as hell because of that.
4. Other Problems Since you indicate there were no other problems, I assume your family is concerned about the major issues you indicated in 2 and 3, or are there other issues (1) that you didn't mention? I want to be clear and understand, if the other issues are along the lines of financial struggles, I assume you worked together to make it work, rather than to argue or have one of you spending to the disapproval of the other.
Answer: He always insisted that I didnt work, that I stay home with our son, that I let him "wear the pants" and if I questioned it he would get angry and tell me to trust him that he know's what he's doing. My family would hear him yelling at me, hear us arguing ALOT and they hated that and told me and him that I should be "treated like gold".
6. Moving in with your mother. I'm still completely in the dark on this one. Your mother threw up the fact that he'd been staying there a week? Why? I don't understand why he found a room rather than find a place for the three of you? You agreed he he should have what under his belt for your future security? I don't understand how looking for a place can turn into six months of him living in his own place and you living with your mother, nor do I understand how that's helping him, you or your relationship.
Answer: well, my mom is really really good at laying on the guilt trip. She has issues herself with men since my parents divorced. BIG ISSUES. About the place for all of us, I pleaded with him to do that. He left the day he did and we argued and he quickly went out and got a room that accomidated only one person. Eventually I told him after MONTHS of argueing that issue to sell the car and get us a place togather. We made plans to do this, then the day that we were going to look at apartments, he "told me" that i was cheating and on internet dating sites (since my sister added me to "myspace.com" just for the fun of it, and he told me that he was going to get a place on his own and then he started yelling at me at my mom's house about me so called cheating and my sister came in and told him to leave. I then left for my Dad's 2 days later out of pure anger towards him and due to the fact that he said that he was getting his own place. He then sold the car, came to my mother's looking for us to get us and take us to the 2 bedroom apt he had just gotten witht the car trade in, and guess what, we were 1000 miles away and ANGRY!
8. Support. He's paying for himself but your mother is paying for you and the baby since you live there?
Answer: half and half
9 and 10. Family. Has your family always disliked him or did they grow to dislike him? You said your family feels he doesn't respect you but that they haven't been around him enough lately and don't know how much has changed. I'm confused by this. You indicated this change was two years ago, that would be plenty of time for your family to see that these changes are for real. I'm wondering if these changes you're talking about are a lot more recent than two years ago, when the baby was born. I also suspect that you're reservations about going back to him are about more than just how your family feels. You moved 1000 miles away from him a month ago because you were upset because he lashed out at your family. It sounds like there's a lot going on that you've left out. Also, how do they conspire against him? I have a feeling you feel that your family is right. Do you?
Answer: Liked him at first. Grown to dislike, with all that he put me thru. I should have left him a million times, and they know that. I have left him about 10 times and ended up at my mom's house. Even a time when i was pregnant and he said he didnt want a family and i left. My mom knows everything, we are close and I do talk to her about things. I have just always prayed and waited for the day that he "grows up" and i feel like to a certain extent he is doing that now. I know that he still isnt perfect, but a big improvemnt and i feel guilty to leave him now that he has tried to change for us.
Something else that you've left out is how all the changes in him you mentioned came about. People don't just change overnight, nor do they change significantly by sheer will. Did he go through therapy? Did the two of you attend counseling?
ANswer: think i have answered all above. just noticed that he is hanging home more, wanting to improve is life for us, alot is verbal. Just feel like I am not ready to throw in the towel yet?? But i am so torn over that. We have a son now, and I have always dreamed of being like my grandparents, married for 60 years with 4 kids. I know they werent perfect and went thru alot of arguements, but they made it. And i want that, just dont want to feel numb anymore. just cant let this go.
Hope this clears some things up. please let me know!!
What I hear is that you hope he's changed, even though you have no reason to expect that he has - except what he says; and even then, he's still saying plenty that tells you nothing has - or will - change.
You say a good relationship is a "dream" that you have and you hate being a quitter when it comes to relationships. You have to know that walking away does not make you a quitter. It takes both partners working to make a relationship work. You cannot do his share, he has to. You can't make a relationship work by yourself, and you've done all the work here, he hasn't done much of anything. Your dream dream can happen, but not with this guy. You can't try to mold someone into what you want, you have to look at who they are, not who you want them to be. You've been struggling to make him be what you want and he's not. It's a whole lot smarter to see that the situation is not conducive to what you want and move on than it is to continue to try to force something that's not into being something that is. If you want a Mercedes you can't keep looking at Toyotas expecting them to turn into a Mercedes. If you want a Mercedes, you have to look at a Mercedes, not a Toyota. Your boyfriend does not assist in caring for your child, does not listen to your wants or needs, refuses to do what needs to be done to work through problems and issues in our relationship, had a bad childhood, is insecure, demands A LOT of attention, is controlling, and may be bipolar. What part of your dream is a guy like this? This is who he is Rab, take a hard look at reality.
You say you can't get over the trust issue, he begs you to accept him back and promises things will be different. You also said your gut tells you this isn't what'll happen. Trust your gut, it won't lie to you; and I suspect your gut screams at you when you talk to him or think about going back. As far as trust goes, your boyfriend wants you to just forget it and move on, pretend it didn't happen. That's not how it works. You can't just forget and trust, trust comes as it's proven that trusting is a safe thing to do. He's given you no reason to trust, issues and problems continue and there's been no resolution. He doesn't take responsibility for his actions and for what it's done to the relationship, he just wants you to forget it. That's not responsible, caring or realistic; it's not facing what's happened and dealing with it. He's even accused you of cheating rather than face what his actions have done to your relationship. His actions tell you he shouldn't be trusted and they also tell you he's not healthy relationship material. His expectation that you should just trust him are about him, they do not take you into consideration at all. You shouldn't feel guilty for not trusting, you should be disgusted and outraged that he'd even consider that you just forget it.
"He has not been around any better for the parenting, and just tries to tell me how he wants to and how he wants us to have a wonderful life and healthy happy relationship." That's lip service. He wants a wonderful life and a healthy, happy relationship but he's unwilling to do anything to get it. Words are easy, he's said a lot of things. Action is where the telling part is. "I have really been struggling with depression myself, been thru therapy since January 06. Think he is the cause. maybe built up anger and resentment towards him." I'm sure you're right. Anytime you're living in/dealing with this kind of dysfunctional, unhealthy life it takes it's toll. The fact that it's causing you depression, or any other emotional or physical symptoms tells you this is not a good place for you to be. " He has come to me crying begging me to please let it go so that we can have a loving relationship again" Again, more lip service, he doesn't want to take responsibility for his actions, he's not willing to do what needs to be done to resolve the issues, he wants to prey on your emotions, your sympathy and get you to take him back without any real change or resolution. He's playing you rather than manning up. "I feel like there is too much water under that bridge already, but feel guilty as hell because of that."What I hear you saying is that you feel guilty for leaving, not that you really want to continue to live that way. I understand it's scary to consider walking away from someone that's been a part of your everyday life for 7 years, even if you hate the lifestyle. I understand that because I lived in a situation that I hated for 17 year before I finally had enough and left. You know what I got? 17 years of my life wasted being unhappy, knowing my situation was dysfunctional, unhealthy and just plain not the way it should be.Change is scary, no doubt about it. What you have to realize is that you can't change him, and his problems, his issues, his dysfunction is neither your fault nor is it something you can change. One of the reasons I stayed was because my husband's childhood had been bad and I felt sorry for that. I wanted to show him what a happy, healthy relationship was and I wanted to help him "fix" the demons he had as a result of his childhood. The fact is, you can't fix your boyfriend anymore than I could fix my husband. It took me years to figure out (duh), but how could I think I could have any effect on a problem that wasn't mine at all? I didn't cause it, I'd had no part in it. It wasn't my issue, it was his; he's the only one who could have any effect on it at all. This is your boyfriend's issue, your boyfriend's demons, he's the only one who can fight them; and it sounds like your situation is a lot like mine in that you're the only one really trying to do anything about it -- you're the one trying to battle his demons, he's not! Think about it, could your boyfriend fix any issue you have from childhood? Of course not! You feel bad for walking away into a healthy environment and leaving him in an unhealthy one. Here's the deal; he's choosing an unhealthy environment. He won't seek help, he's opting to stay where he is. He has that right, and you can't make him change. The fact that he's chosen to live in dysfunction doesn't obligate you to condemn your life -- and that of your son -- to the same substandard, unhealthy existence. Why would you choose to live your life like that? Why would you choose to condemn your son to a dysfunctional, unhealthy environment and as a result, an unhealthy, dysfunctional adult life? You can't choose for your boyfriend, you can only choose for yourself. He's chosen to live like he's living. You know the difference, live a healthy life, Rab. In the end, my last words to my ex-husband were, "I'm sorry you had such a lousy childhood and I'm sorry you're unhappy, but I'm not going to pay for that with the rest of my life." I think that statement would apply to you too.You said you've always dreamed of being like your grandparents, they weren't perfect and went through a lot of arguments, but they made it. I highly doubt that this remotely resembles your grandparent's relationship. My grandparents "made it" too, right through to the end. They lived together for 70-some years but they hated each other throughout all of them. They "made it", but they were angry, unhappy, disgusted people. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call that "making it". Happiness and quality of life are very, very important and there's a difference between existing and really living. When I left my ex-husband I chose life.
One last thought. Good relationships are easy. There are problems, but they're faced, resolved and your relationship moves on without them. Bad relationships are a struggle, you have to continue to struggle just to keep them going. Now I ask you, why would you continue to struggle to keep a bad relationship alive when, a good relationship would not only make you happy, but would be easy too? You and your son deserve a good life and it won't happen with this guy.
Some articles you should read:
The Truth About the Power of LoveTrust
7 Signs You Should Run From Your Partner
Is Your Relationship Healthy?
Letting Go of Harmful Relationships
~ cl-2nd_life"Experience is what you get
when you don't get what you want."
~ Author unknown
Edited 7/28/2006 12:42 am ET by cl-2nd_life
"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"
the backlash of telling your family about all of your relationship problems is that they form very strident opinions of the person they perceive is hurting you and they will belittle him and take it upon themselves to reproach him because they dont' feel you're doing a good enough job of it