What's Really Goin On Here?

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-18-2006
What's Really Goin On Here?
8
Wed, 01-18-2006 - 9:40am

Ok, I need an analysis:

I notice a pattern whenever DH & I try to communicate:

Whenever we have a SLIGHT diff. of opinion, he gets offended! - it's as if I'm trying to insult him personally. I can't PRETEND to think/be someone else, simply to spare his feelings. But I'm not always going to have the exact same opinions he has! Who would?

He acts like it's WRONG - like it's complaining to disagree with someone.

He does a lot of eye rolling & sighing in his communication - which IRKS me! It's rude - It's like I have to modify myself & what I say so I don't get any flap back. I really have to watch my voice. When I'm not attacking at all - he will read into my voice, that somehow I'm attacking him.

As a result, lots of times, when we disagree, even slightly, he just gives in & lets me have my way. There's no discussion, nor negotiation - which is not really how it should be! How to solve THAT?

What is REALLY going on here??? I think it's something about him in the origination - what do you think?

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 01-18-2006 - 12:13pm

I am so with you on the eye rolling and sighing thing. My DH will do that. He also tends to mutter just loud enough for me to know he said something, without having ANY clue as to what. For awhile I was calling him on it, like "If you have something to say then say it. Otherwise STOP with the passive/agressive crap." After awhile I thought that even acknowledging it was happening was giving him what he wanted. I wasn't getting mad at all about it, or letting it change what I would do, but I was giving it attention. So now, I ignore it totally. He can sigh, eye roll, mutter, etc all he wants. I am going to go on like it never happened. No attention or reaction from me. Unfortunately I'm not deep enough into that way to let you know if it does anything different. :)

You are right, it is incredibly dull and impossible to have 2 people agree on everything all the time. And not having someone work things out with you, well, I've been there too. Heck, I still am. And there is nothing you can do to really fix it. You can talk and try to find all the right words you want but it's just not going to get you anywhere. Trust me, I've tried every way I can think of to try and communicate it out with my DH. Now, I say, this is what I think/want. What about you? And if he says "I don't know" (which is my DH's most common phrase) then I say, well, we need a decision, we can come back to it at XX time. Or we can do it my way. Then I say one final time, this is the agreement, if you have a problem with it let me know now because I'm not going to listen to it later. And then I move on. If he can't speak up for himself or he just "gives in" what do I care? I'm not railroading him and I'm more than giving him a chance to contribute. And if he starts it later I just say, "I told you earlier that if you weren't going to offer a solution or anything then I didn't want to hear about it." and I walk away. I can honestly say that our communication has changed. I don't know for sure if he's doing better or what, but it is different than it has been in years.

As far as him being personally insulted, just look at him and say, "DH, I love you. I'm giving you my opinion on the matter and that's all I'm doing. If you choose to be offended, that is your choice."

The problem may be with your DH. It could also be compounded by HOW you go about disagreeing. I'm tenacious and tend to think my way really is the better way. I've had to work hard to back down and realize there are multiple ways and none of them are wrong. I've had to work hard on being calmer when I do talk about things. My DH avoids confrontation (which I think yours might too) and so if anything smacks of it, he runs. Which means that he gives in and won't negiotiate. But part of that is because I'm rather forceful and I will argue for my point. It wasn't working.

If I'm way off here, let me know.

I do want to ask too, how is he different from when you were dating? Is he different? How long have you been married and how long has this been going on?

Jen

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 01-18-2006 - 1:36pm

I have the same questions Jen did at the end of her post.

Peace,

Di

***If you cannot define yourself, your circumstances will.***

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-18-2006
Wed, 01-18-2006 - 2:18pm

JEN -
You & your hubby sound like our twins!
I totally relate to all you've been saying & would love to hear how the ignoring-sighs/eyerolling goes - I've often thought that's the thing to do - but thus far it goes on.

We've been married 10 years. I never noticed any of this beforehand. It is only recently (last few months) that I see a pattern at least with THIS Issue! He's long been a sigher, eyeroller - but I don't rememeber it dating.

MY question to you: does that sort of comm'n in your marriage - does it scare you what might result with the inability to comm.?

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-18-2006
Wed, 01-18-2006 - 2:33pm

Jen & Di:

We've never really been able to talk about things......

I think one key - as Jen says she does with her marriage - is that I WILL "jump on" and defend my stance - but when it's something benign - I could really go either way.

I wonder if he's been TRAUMATIZED by the times I really stood up for myself - Jen do you know what I mean? --- such that he's afraid to say anything. But, it's b/c I expect him to be CAPABLE of standing up for his side. But he just cowers down & leaves the room. I want someone to banter with - not b/c I like fighting, but b/c it makes for an interesting person.....and heck, maybe I'm not the one right.

I do know he's a conflict avoider.---- even when this such benign conflict that he still doesn't want to get involved?

He's very passive & gets mad at us when we stand up for something or express a preference. He thinks that's wrong. I call it being passive. He calls it complaining. I lose respect for him when he just accepts & won't express a strong preference to someone, even when they ask.

Here's an example this morning:
My daughter can often complain she doesn't feel good & can't go to school. She had symptoms yesterday & I really was considering that she might be valid today.

I walk into the other room & DH says - "You know, she's going to do this a lot if you let her stay home." I said, "Well, I KNOW that." (After all, wouldn't all mothers be smart enough to know such?)

He got all upset & eyerolling & throwing his arms up at that statement! What was I supposed to do - lie - ask him to tell me more wisdom.

He was just making a statement. Didn't see a need to get all huffy.

I said, "Well, then obviously you must be thinking she's not sick - for you to have said that." (Makes logical sense, right?)

"No, no, no, I didn't say she wasn't sick!" And starts muttering to himself.

I didn't know what to do!!! BUT I notice this same pattern repeats itself as it has in recent years - I wonder if it's self esteem - As if he always thinks someones insulting him. He never wants to cross anyone himself & perhaps, can't understand why I'd see it as ok.

This example - what do you see going on here?????

What is the problem w/people being so incredibly defensive? What's the usual reasoning there? He did have an overbearing mother, who continues to berate him every so often. I wonder if he's placing me in place of his mom? He wouldn't ever stand up to her. Maybe he's trying to with me.......

iVillage Member
Registered: 10-13-2004
Wed, 01-18-2006 - 4:00pm

Hi Picketyfence, I'm chiming in here late with some thoughts on how to manage your discussions.

I'll warn you now that I'm going to give some constructive criticism to your discussion techniques. Please don't be offended, as I do this with the best of long term intentions for your marriage.

Based on the one example you gave, I can easily see why he's rolling his eyes and throwing his arms up. There was absolutely no need for you to say "Well, I KNOW that". It was rude and dismissive.

If this is how you react when he says something that you think is dumb, it's no wonder he's given up trying to discuss things with you. The trick to good communication is to not dismiss another's thoughts. Even if it's something that you consider to be obvious or wrong, you've got to give them credit for the thought and discuss further.

If that conversation happened in my home, it would go something like this:

DH: "You know, she's going to do this a lot if you let her stay home."
me: "Yeah, I'm a bit worried about that. Have you got any ideas on what's going on?"
DH: "well, it could be problems with a teacher......"
me: "she hasn't said anything, but perhaps we could look into it. I'm also wondering if it could be a bullying issue"

Another example is fixing our home PC's. My husband is an IT techo, and sometimes he's working on a difficult problem on our home PCs. Despite the fact that I know little about the workings of a PC and he's a professional, I still come along with suggestions.

me: "perhaps the problem is X that we changed last week?"
DH: "nope, I've checked that already"
me: "what about this software....it's been giving me problems lately"
DH: "unlikely, but I'll look later if nothing more probable turns up first"

What I'm getting at here, is though he's a professional and I know nothing, he still treats my thoughts with respect.

Dress Up Games, Doll Makers and Cartoon Dolls @ The Doll Palace
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-18-2006
Wed, 01-18-2006 - 4:59pm

Well - certainly something to think about!

I'll hafta watch & see if I am degrading him with comments.........

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-25-2003
Wed, 01-18-2006 - 5:40pm

Honestly, I've never felt that DH was much of a communicator. I didn't realize it when we were dating but once we got married, it was so obvious. I know his issue is that he was taught that you did whatever mom and dad wanted and if you didn't do it, you didn't love them. So he learned hard and fast when he was younger to just go with the flow.

As far as me being scared about it leading to the inability to communicate... I really feel that it will only do that if I let it. If I refuse to communicate or if I take advantage of the way he is to bulldoze him. Which is why I give him several chances to contribute and once he agrees then that's the end of it. The caveat to that is, if he changes his mind he can come back and talk to me about it and we will renegotiate a solution. Too many times he agrees to whatever and then will go and do his own thing anyway and try to keep it from me. That is unacceptable to me.

I do know that I react a lot the same way you do. The "Well, duh..." type of response. And I know that has caused us many problems. I agree with Aisha on that one. I'm always turning things around so DH can see it from my view so take that situation and look at it from his view. You make and comment to him, possibly just to be making conversation or making sure you are thinking of something at that specific time and he says "I KNOW that." I would be ticked if my DH did that to me. The difference with us and them is we would have laid into them about being so rude/mean/insensitive/whatever why they just sigh/mutter/eye roll. Doesn't mean I don't still do it from time to time but I have made a very concerted effort to make sure that I listen to what my DH says without telling him he's stupid. Though it's very, very hard sometimes. ;-)

And when we do have a conversation, I try to always ask DH at the end if he feels listened to and understood or does he feel like I dismissed everything. It seems so..... basic? Elementary? I don't know the right word. I just feel like I'm in basic communication and follow up 101 or something. BUT, it seems to be working. DH is now talking to me more. And the less often I react in anger, the more often he comes to me FIRST. Though there are still times he doesn't.

I've been married right about 10 years too. I've made this change in how I've been dealing with and communicating with DH for about the last 2 years. This last year I've really done it. And DH has really fought the change. Doesn't like giving me credit for it either. Which I understand to some degree. All changes take time before both people are comfortable with them staying. And I feel less stressed. So even if that's the only thing that happened with it, I'm happy.

Jen

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-26-2003
Thu, 01-19-2006 - 1:38am

Pickety, I absolutely agree with Aisha. Maybe you don't feel that you're coming off like you are, but the example you gave definitely says you're responding in a way that shuts him down. That being said I want you to know that I am the world's worst at speaking with a bad tone of voice. I can come off much differently than I think I do and much differently than I meant to. That means I have to watch what I say and how I say it and I'm not always as good at that as I should be. The first thing I'd ask you is in the example you gave, if this discussion was between you and a friend, a stranger, or anyone else, would you have responded the same way? Often we tend to unconsciously keep it a little kinder, a little more respectful when we're talking to someone other than our spouses. I find asking myself if I'd respond to a friend the way I'm planning to respond to my husband or my kids is a good way to gauge whether I'm staying within appropriate boundaries of talking to someone or not. If you feel that you would have answered the same way in the same tone to a friend, then fine. But, you still have to recognize that your husband is more sensitive to your tone and to the manner in which you reply than your friends, and since he's not the same and since you want to have him converse with you, then you'll have to approach him differently in order to get what you want. Another way to approach the conversation that you had with him about your daughter would be something like this:


DH: "You know, she's going to do this a lot if you let her stay home."
You: "Yeah, I know, but I think she might really be sick this time. What do you think we should do?"


In responding to him by acknowledging (politely and calmly) that you agree (-- not that you already know, duh! --), letting him know what your thinking and concerns are in what's going on today, and finishing by asking him what he thinks encourages a discussion and gives him the message that you want his input.


You said you want someone to banter with, well in order to get what you want you're going to have to be able to hold up your end of the conversation in a way that doesn't convey the message that he's stupid, that his thoughts are worthless, etc. Why would he want to continue a conversation when doing so is disrespectful to him? Honestly? And I hope you don't get angry, but if you retorted to me in the same way you did to your husband in the incident you described, I would take offense, leave the room and refuse to be a part of the issue you are dealing with. You may not see what you said as degrading, but it was. And if you're using this incident as an example to convey an example of how he's wrong in his response, you've got to be doing it so much more than you realize. You might consider videotaping a conversation between you to get a better look at how each of you actually comes off, seeing yourself in action can be a real eye opener, and if you're acting nicer or calmer than you usually would because of the camera, you know darned well you're doing it and that alone will tell you that you know the way you typically respond is not okay.


Changing how you respond won't be easy, it'll take work and a lot of conscious effort, but it'll get easier with time. I'd start by hesitating just before speaking, running the words I plan to say through my head and ask myself how I'd feel if they were said to me. You might sit down with him and tell him you're realizing that you've been coming on too strong and that you've come off in a way that you didn't intend. Tell him you're working on it, ask for his patience and his help (if you think it'll help). He could let you know when what you're saying is out of line with a pre-chosen sentence that's been agreed on by both of you. Instead of retorting, try to get in the habit of asking him a question (like "what do you think we should do?" (the word we is critical in what it conveys to him) after you've asked the question you need to stop talking and let him respond fully without interrupting (may seem obvious, but it's one I can definitely have trouble with!) because if you ask his opinion then don't bother to listen to the answer you're telling him you really don't care what he has to say....


There are some articles on constructive arguing that are also good information on just plain good communication as well as a good series of "workshop lessons" that are good for building good communication between you. Some of the workshop lessons may seem silly, but I encourage you to give them a try, you'd be amazed how much they can really help. These are worksheets that are actively used by therapists for couples counseling.


Articles:
Verbal Fencing With Someone You Love
Ten Rules For Fair Fighting
Dos and Don'ts For Fair Fighting
Conflicts - Points to Remember


Workshop lessons:
1. Lessons in Communication & Assertion
2. Lessons cont. - Steps to Assertion
3. Lessons cont. - Language of Assertion
4. Lessons cont. - More on Communication
5. Dialogue to Improve Your Marriage


If you aren't able to make any headway with those, I'd suggest seeing a counselor who's accredited in couples therapy to work with you two to learn to communicate with each other.









~ cl-2nd_life

"You can't control the length of your life,
but you can control the width and depth."

~ Author unknown



Edited 1/19/2006 11:03 am ET by cl-2nd_life








"Ignoring the facts
does not change the facts"